10-04-2018, 03:03 PM | #13001 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Sep 2004
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I've never used the ignore/block feature on this forum.
That ended today after reading the last several pages of this thread.
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2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) |
10-04-2018, 03:11 PM | #13002 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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10-04-2018, 04:48 PM | #13003 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
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Quote:
+1, and I’ve not even got a horse in this race.
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'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! |
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10-04-2018, 05:02 PM | #13004 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
I honestly think you would be surprised by the amount of agreement you would get for this post. I just think that there has to be a middle to get to that "necessary level of decorum, intellectual honesty, and (for lack of a better word) maturity that has to be expected (from both sides) as a base line for adult interaction." I would also add humanity to your list.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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10-04-2018, 05:49 PM | #13005 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Burke, VA
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I would think that a good dozen or so republican senators would love for the president have nominated someone that wasn't so dishonest and partisan with a sketchy background and bad attitude.
Well, they can get that by rejecting Kavanaugh and getting a new nominee. So why the illogical loyalty to such a flawed (and ultimately undeserving) nominee? |
10-04-2018, 05:56 PM | #13006 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
I think if Kavanaugh gets withdrawn then it would be seen as a Democratic victory. And Republicans can't have that! Not to mention it's likely that any other candidate would go through similiar turmoil.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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10-04-2018, 06:36 PM | #13007 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
Listening to Howard Fineman on Kornheiser's podcast, Fineman said that Kavanaugh was nominated because people like Don McCann and Mitch McConnell convinced Trump that they needed "a real aggressive political player on the Court." Another description that Fineman gave is that Kavanaugh would be the "Karl Rove" of the court. YMMV depending on your political slant.
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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10-04-2018, 06:44 PM | #13008 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I do remember watching a news magazine episode where kids were falsely accusing parent(s) of abuse and it was likely they were mistaken. I am not saying this is the case here but to say one cannot be mistaken is not right. I can easily believe Kavanaugh did it but I don't think there is enough evidence to stop his nomination specifically because of the allege rape, see muns post on needing more. (How he acted in front of the committee is a different matter though which IMO shows he does not have the right temperament to be SCOTUS). |
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10-04-2018, 06:50 PM | #13009 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Because Kavanaugh situation is more immediate & juicy. The NYT story has a long runway and TBF, there needs to be more review to really substantiate it. I know the NY state folks state they are getting involved which is great. I don't eliminate the possibility there are nuances to the charges where Trump (and his army of lawyers) can show it wasn't necessarily illegal or in the grey area. |
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10-04-2018, 06:59 PM | #13010 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I don't watch Fox but know what you mean. I used to watch CNN but now their Fox-like-left-wing bias is pretty bad. In this board, there are some accusations that people are brainwashed by Fox News, I contend that is applicable to CNN-MSNBC (Morning Joe, I'm talking about you) too. Quote:
I agree with this. Its my viewpoint too. However, re: Ford, I'm not sure it has been established that she was "drunken" or that "drunken". |
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10-04-2018, 07:03 PM | #13011 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I really don't think so. Kavanaugh just made it worse on himself. Another candidate without this baggage would just be grilled about abortion rights and Presidential indictment. |
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10-04-2018, 07:03 PM | #13012 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Quote:
very much this
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10-04-2018, 07:12 PM | #13013 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Where is her evidence? You refer to her therapist visit but (1) the 3 or 4 people that she proposed could validate her account did not and (2) Judge who was supposedly in the room has denied it. I can easily believe that (2) Judge is protecting his butt but how do you explain (1)? Would her friends haven't forgotten about a "rape" attempt after she came out visibly distressed? Shouldn't there be corroborating evidence vs a therapist visit/notes decades after it happened? She does have something to gain. She would be a "hero" to the #metoo movement, the Dems will hold her up (for at least a while), lots of attention, probably a nice book deal etc. |
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10-04-2018, 07:18 PM | #13014 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Welp, tomorrow is the day.
From bits and pieces I've caught on TV, it seems there is nothing/much new. I think Kavanaugh goes through (but hope I am wrong). |
10-04-2018, 08:03 PM | #13015 | ||
General Manager
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
I didn't say there was evidence. It's an event that took place over 30 years ago. For the most part it's a he said, she said situation. The only difference in the two is that Kavanaugh has repeatedly lied under oath which is something incredibly odd if you're innocent. Quote:
People who come forward with rape accusations against celebrities, athletes or powerful people have their lives destroyed. Her and her family will receive death threats and require security for years. She'll be called a liar, a whore, and all the other goodies that come with being a woman who speaks up these days. If you think this is some ticket to stardom, you're ignoring decades of evidence to the contrary. |
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10-04-2018, 08:06 PM | #13016 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
Because it follows the pattern of everything else? Stormy, Russia, etc It has been suspected. Those suspicions have been discussed extensively as fact without the in depth investigation by his critics. His supporters defend him by saying it is a conspiracy against him and his agenda and demand facts instead of suspicions to back up these accusations. Facts come out and if they are anything less than 100% accurate, it becomes proof of the conspiracy against Trump and becomes red meat for his supporters. If they are 100% true, well nothing happens because we are on to something else because there is always something else. Rinse and Repeat. In this case, I would argue that both sides of the political divide have long accepted that only the billionaires who don't have smart lawyers and offshore accounts actually pay their fair share of taxes. That is just the way business works I believe is the proper saying.
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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10-04-2018, 08:39 PM | #13017 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
One of the days. I expect him to go through, but if he's going to fail I think it will be the actual vote, not the cloture vote.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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10-04-2018, 08:55 PM | #13018 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Canada
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I kind of wish Kavanaugh would have just come out and said something along the lines of "The only thing that occurred was that I simply tried to grab her by the pussy. I think that's something that 63 million Americans can understand and appreciate."
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10-04-2018, 09:10 PM | #13019 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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I hope he loses. But I see Trump bullying the gop committee members.
Trey Gowdy would be a fantastic option for the SC, IMO.
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Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
10-04-2018, 09:18 PM | #13020 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Oh God no
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
10-04-2018, 09:24 PM | #13021 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Okay, fair enough, my mistake (For anyone that does say there is evidence, above is my response). Quote:
You repeatedly say "she has nothing to gain from this". I'm pointing out she does. You may not think the pros outweigh the cons but I personally would be willing to take your above con-list in exchange for $1M and to be face/darling of a major movement. (Add the gofundme to the list of pros also but not sure how much $ is in there right now). Now - I am not saying she is doing this for money. I don't think she has proven her allegation however I can easily believe an intoxicated Kavanaugh did what she said he did. I'm just saying she does have "pros" from going public. |
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10-04-2018, 09:28 PM | #13022 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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Why? He seems like a straight shooter to me. And I doubt he would be easily influenced. Seems like he loves the law and really knows it. But I would like to hear why you dont like him as a choice.
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Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
10-04-2018, 09:34 PM | #13023 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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FWIW.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kav...-drinking-game Quote:
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10-04-2018, 09:36 PM | #13024 |
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
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10-04-2018, 09:37 PM | #13025 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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10-04-2018, 09:39 PM | #13026 |
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'm just saying that testimony is evidence. Kavanaugh's is too. Of course, it's not a trial and the FRE don't apply, but it's incorrect to say there's no evidence.
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10-04-2018, 09:41 PM | #13027 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
Straight shooter? He lead the Benghazi investigations which wasted millions of dollars in a political witchhunt. He's shown himself to be little more than your typical political hack.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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10-04-2018, 09:42 PM | #13028 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
Pardon my ignorance, what's FRE?
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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10-04-2018, 09:42 PM | #13029 |
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
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Sorry, Federal Rules of Evidence.
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10-04-2018, 09:51 PM | #13030 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Referring to post #13061, I should have again been more specific in responding to RM when I pointed out her 3-4 people she proposed to corroborate her story did not do so. Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 10-04-2018 at 10:00 PM. |
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10-04-2018, 09:52 PM | #13031 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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Quote:
Seems like there is a lot of political witch hunts in the last 10 years.
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10-04-2018, 09:56 PM | #13032 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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That's not really a defense of Gowdy.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
10-04-2018, 10:00 PM | #13033 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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__________________
Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
10-04-2018, 10:34 PM | #13034 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF
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Quote:
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10-04-2018, 10:38 PM | #13035 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I'm not making a judgement on whether she is doing it for money or not. I am responding to RM statement that "she has nothing to gain from this".
Don't read anymore into it. I am anti-Kavanaugh for SCOTUS, not because of the allegations of Ford's rape but because of how he presented himself at the committee. |
10-04-2018, 10:41 PM | #13036 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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Quote:
Dont forget about his shady finances. There some things there that are being ignored.
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Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15 |
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10-04-2018, 10:45 PM | #13037 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF
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Quote:
She said: “For a very long time, I was too afraid and ashamed to tell anyone the details. I did not want to tell my parents that I, at age 15, was in a house without any parents present, drinking beer with boys. I tried to convince myself that because Brett did not rape me, I should be able to move on and just pretend that it had never happened. Over the years, I told very few friends that I had this traumatic experience.” So, as far as the other witnesses and friends, it was quite likely one moment of an otherwise unremarkable evening. |
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10-04-2018, 10:58 PM | #13038 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I quoted the below in #12546. The four friends/acquaintances actually said they have no recollection of being there and therefore could not corroborate that the party happened or was attended by Ford/Kavanaugh. I guess its possible Kupec misquoted but do you have a better source? https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/22/polit...ion/index.html Quote:
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10-04-2018, 11:10 PM | #13039 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF
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Quote:
I’ll try again. There is a difference between validating the assault and validating being there. She did not tell anyone of the assault, so no one could ever have validated it. Therefore, those friends were asked to remember a small get together 36 years ago where nothing special happened. ( except one friend saying she believes fords testimony). You asked why a friend wouldn’t remember her coming out distressed. That is you filling in gaps. She never said people saw her coming down, nor did she say others will validate they saw me afterwards. Or that I told them what happened. Last edited by AENeuman : 10-04-2018 at 11:12 PM. |
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10-04-2018, 11:30 PM | #13040 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I'll try again also.
I did not say validate the assault. I did say (in so many words) validate they Ford/Kavanaugh were at the same party. Four friends/acquaintances could not confirm they or Ford/Kavanaugh were there. As far as I know there is no one (outside of the four) has corroborated the party. That does not make you at least give pause on the accuracy of the rest of her claims? Re: coming out distressed, you don't think she came out distressed after an alleged rape attempt? You don't think anyone else would have seen her after the alleged attempt? You may be right but I think its somewhat logical to think both things happened. Last edited by Edward64 : 10-04-2018 at 11:34 PM. |
10-04-2018, 11:51 PM | #13041 | ||
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF
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Quote:
Quote:
I think there is something behind this wishful thinking by adding to the narrative. Her vivid testimony of what she did remember was not enough (to mostly men). What has been vaulted to absolute importance to you, and others, is fuzzy side facts that is absolutely consistent with trauma victims. While her memory of who, if anyone, was in the room as she was escaping is absent, that missing fact somehow trumps her recollection of the person on top of her covering her mouth as she was trying to scream and escape? |
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10-05-2018, 12:10 AM | #13042 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Her friend she says was there has said she believes her but cannot corroborate re: the party. PJ cannot corroborate either. That's enough to give me pause. I believe I read she said she is not surprised they could not remember because "nothing special happened". Did she say this before or after the 2 said they could not corroborate? Quote:
I get that I'm not a trauma specialist. I will defer to mun's discussion. He seems to have a lot of experience and he's has said he needs more too. re: your second paragraph, I don't think I said that. I said there is a lack of corroborating evidence? |
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10-05-2018, 08:28 AM | #13043 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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I guess we'll find out in a month, but this whole thing seems to be setting up as win/win for the Republicans. Either he gets confirmed and it's settled, or he gets rejected and the base flocks to the polls in November and stunts whatever gains the Dems appeared destined to make.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
10-05-2018, 09:28 AM | #13044 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Everything is a political calculation. That's how we got where we are. My comment was simply an observation, not a pro or con on the process. The whole thing effing stinks.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 10-05-2018 at 09:32 AM. |
10-05-2018, 10:05 AM | #13045 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Agree. But if the Democrats can't be motivated by 2 years of Trump than not sure what it would take to motivate them. It's sad because a Trump presidency should have led to 3rd parties gaining some traction but my guess is <1% in these coming midterms due to the lessor of two evils. I have to admit I'm leaning towards voting Claire McKaskill over generic Libertarian to try to neutralize the GOP controlling everything. Best government ever in my lifetime was Bill Clinton and the GOP Congress. |
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10-05-2018, 10:16 AM | #13046 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Dems may still be motivated to come out, but I'm thinking that you're going to have more Republicans coming out than otherwise would have for mid-terms.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
10-05-2018, 10:20 AM | #13047 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
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Quote:
The other part is that there are still 30ish days until the midterm vote, which in this administration means time for another dozen scandals to flood the news, and washed out for the next one. Remember when some anonymous guy wrote the NYT how they were "saving" the country from Trump? That was a month ago. Last edited by bronconick : 10-05-2018 at 10:22 AM. |
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10-05-2018, 11:42 AM | #13048 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
I believe that the fear and propaganda that Fox News and Rush and the like layer on continuously is going to guarentee a set minimum turnout for trump's base and the right. I don't think anything can happen that will change that too much. Fear is a great motivator and a lot of people have been conditioned for the last year that their lives and safety are in grave danger if liberals win anything at all in November. Its all about whether the left can be motivated to vote or not. And if they can't in this specific political climate, god help us all. |
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10-05-2018, 12:13 PM | #13049 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Quote:
There's something to be said for the effectiveness of chaos in keeping people from being able to concentrate on a single issue. I don't know if News Cycle Fatigue is a clinical term, but it might be in the aftermath of the Trump administration.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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10-05-2018, 12:28 PM | #13050 |
assmaster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bloomington, IN
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Panerd is spot on, though. If Dems can't self-motivate after two solid years of bullshit, then they deserve to lose, and their agenda deserves to lose along with them.
We keep hearing about how the majority of the popular vote was democrat. We keep hearing "there are more of us than them" and Trump only has a semi-solid core of 30% of Republicans or whatever. If they can't turn that into victories, I'd submit that they're just fucking around with wishful thinking and their progressive moral majority is a myth. It's our own version of delusional fake news fed to us by our own media outlets. |
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