Questions for Programmers

[Marmel]

Just a few general question that I would appreciate some thoughts on....

1) Would c++ be a good language to learn?
2) If not, what would you recommend?
3) What is the difference between Visual c++ and c++?
4) Is learning this something a person can do with guidebooks, tutorials, etc...?
5) Any other comments appreciated.

[Draft Dodger]

* insert flamewar here *

[wig]

.NET baby!

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by wig

.NET baby!

Screw .NET, go with PHP....

[Marmel]

Please note, I know NOTHING about programming.

[wig]

I said .NET!

Write it down.

[GoldenEagle]

C++ is pretty easy to learn, I think. Visual C++ is easier because you don't have to do WinAPI programming. I have several C++ books and have just taught myself through those.

[VPI97]

Start with something a little less complex, if only to maintain your interest. There are many languages where you can hit the ground running and then you build your knowledge from there.

[Calis]

Ada baby!

Only way to learn!

[GoldenEagle]

I would reccomend starting with JavaScript or PHP if you wanted to leran from the ground up.

[hukarez]

Everybody knows it's all about COBOL.


I kid, I kid. I'd start off with something simple. Visual Basic is what I'd start off with...

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Marmel

Just a few general question that I would appreciate some thoughts on....

1) Would c++ be a good language to learn?

Depends on the circumstances. Is this your first language? What do you intend to do with it? Is it hobbyist programming?

There is no right answer here. I cut my teeth on LOGO and BASIC, but C++, PASCAL, Java, C#, and Visual Basic are all reasonable languages to learn on.

2) If not, what would you recommend?

Tell me more about what you want to do and I'll make a recommendation.

3) What is the difference between Visual c++ and c++?

C++ is a language. Visual C++ is an Integrated Development Environment (IDE) for creating C++ programs for the Windows platform. An IDE means it has an editor, compiler, debugger, and project management all integrated into one tool.

4) Is learning this something a person can do with guidebooks, tutorials, etc...?

Most definitely. Good books are hard to find. But the best way to learn programming is trial-and-error, with someone to ask questions of (and there are several of us on the board that love to answer questions).

5) Any other comments appreciated.

Plenty of them on this board. If you are looking to jump into programming for the first time, my current recommended combination is Visual C# and Petzold's Programming in the Key of C# (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846). Petzold is a very good teaching author, and as I said above good books are hard to find. In this case I'm recommending the language more to go along with the book than to pick a particular language as better than any other. I just think this book will give you a good introduction to programming.

In reality, you use whatever programming language fits the task at hand (kind of like picking up a tool for a home improvement project). Once you get comfortable with one, start learning another language. You'll start to see there are certain tasks fundamental to programming no matter what the project is, and start to see the strengths and weaknesses of the various languages.

Right now in my professional and home programming lives I use both C++ and C#. Just depends on what I'm doing.

[MikeVic]

I learned Pascal first, and then Java. I don't see a problem with learning C++ as your first language. Don't learn Visual Basic as your first, since you'll get into some not-so-nice programming habits.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by hukarez

Everybody knows it's all about COBOL.

I wrote COBOL for three years...please don't ever mention it again.

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I wrote COBOL for three years...please don't ever mention it again.

Fortran, then?

[sterlingice]

I think Java is a simpler language to learn from the start. Some messy things in C++ that you don't have to worry about in Java.

SI

[Marmel]

Thanks for all the replies. I will comment a bit more in a little while, I only have a minute right now.

[Marmel]

This would be my first language, other than messing around with BASIC as a kid. I only picked c++ because that is the one I probably have heard about the most. Don't know anything about it of course, or about any language.

This would be basically for a hobby, but say, some day I wanted to design a sports sim, or sports sim utilities, etc...

[Primal]

Originally Posted by wig

.NET baby!

I second that... but stay away from that VB BS.

[Marmel]

what makes .NET so good that I have seen it recommended numerous times here? Is it easier to learn?

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by Marmel

what makes .NET so good that I have seen it recommended numerous times here? Is it easier to learn?

.NET is pretty new, new VB .NET, and so on. Much easier to learn, from what I'm told. I haven't migrated to it yet, as we're using a mix of apps at my place of business. But, it seems like the statements are more like whole sentences, rather than fragmented english. I haven't taken a gander at it lately, but if you want to check VB .NET out - I'd recommend a Deitel book. It's pricey, but pretty thorough.

BTW, if you're curious for a good VB .NET website, try:

http://www.devcity.net

They've got forums there too to ask questions about things.

[Mr. Wednesday]

If you're looking for recommendations for C++ books, I recommend the reviews by the ACCU - hxxp://www.accu.org

[TargetPractice6]

Here's a very good free, online C++ book if you want to read some and see what you think. http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/...ngInCPP2e.html

[Airhog]

bah, we all know there is only one true language to learn. Assembly all the way. Anything else would just leave you feeling empty inside.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Airhog

bah, we all know there is only one true language to learn. Assembly all the way. Anything else would just leave you feeling empty inside.

Way to open a big ol' jar o' worm, Airhog. WHICH assembly?

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Calis

Ada baby!

Only way to learn!

Funny, other than the mostly-useless BASIC I learned in high school, Ada was my first language as well. It wasn't . . . bad. Just hasn't been incredibly useful to me.

[Marc Vaughan]

1) Would c++ be a good language to learn?
Yes, although if you're just planning to program as a hobby then Visual Basic might be a better bet.

2) If not, what would you recommend?
VB - Its easier to pick up and make progress with (lack of progress is the most common reason for people giving up when starting programming).

3) What is the difference between Visual c++ and c++?
Visual C++ is Microsofts style of C++, think of it as C++ with knobs on ... there's a bunch of proprietary libraries and some GUI tools with it, most compiler manufacturer's have similar libraries available, many of which support Microsofts as well as their own interface.

4) Is learning this something a person can do with guidebooks,
tutorials, etc...?
Yeah, many people are 'self-taught' ... its a matter of interest and motivation as much as anything.

5) Any other comments appreciated.
Best of luck, if you need any advice at any point feel free to drop me an email.

[Cap Ologist]

I'd recommend java but only because I'm trying to teach myself programming as well. I asked my old college roommate who got his undergrad and masters in computer programming and he recommended it to me. Some of the benefits of it are:

1. You don't have to buy any software to start developing. Java gives the development software away for free.

2. There are lots of tutorials and helps available at their site as well.

3. From what I've understood, Java has kind of taken some of the best things from different languages and streamlined alot.

4. Java is able to run on most platforms without doing any system specific tweaking.

5. One of the things that I like about java is that it is set up pretty neat. For example (Disclaimer: Other languages might do this, I'm just not aware of them), you can set up classes and objects in java which speeds up programming because you only write code once. For example, say I wanted to create a sports sim for basketball. I could make a class for a generic person with things such as age, alma mater, make another class with physical attributes such as height and weight, make another class with athletic skills, and another class with coaching skills. Then I create an object, say a basketball coach. I could combine the generic class with the coaching skills class. I could also use the generic class with the physical attributes and athletic skills classes. So, this has been kind of a long way to say that I think how it is setup makes it pretty easy to work with.

6. Also, there are alot of small programs that are already written that you can include in your program. For example, in the program that I'm working on, I'm using a mini-program that I found to generate random numbers. It's pretty easy to get up and running with these and the tutorials.

7. In about 3-4 hours, I was able to set up a pretty decent graphical user interface that is functional and somewhat appealing.

I'd recommend going to the java website and downloading the free software. It's kind of a big file, but hey it's free and will give you a good idea about what it can do.

Anyway, good luck.

The best advice I can give is pick a language that a friend knows quite a bit about. I've been able to email my college roommate a couple of times that I was confused, and it turned out to be pretty simple things, such as typos that I just wasn't seeing.

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

1) Would c++ be a good language to learn?
Yes, although if you're just planning to program as a hobby then Visual Basic might be a better bet.

2) If not, what would you recommend?
VB - Its easier to pick up and make progress with (lack of progress is the most common reason for people giving up when starting programming).

I can't help but stress that last statement. Had a few friends try and get into programming...but gave up when they weren't able to 'do' anything yet.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Marmel

what makes .NET so good that I have seen it recommended numerous times here? Is it easier to learn?

(this will really get the flamewar going here)

To me .NET fulfills the promise that Java never has, and as long as Sun controls it never will. Java was a great idea that continues to be held back (yes, I've worked on apps in Java professionally, and watched what another team went through writing an app in Java). There are just some key bits missing (enumerated type support anyone? yes, I know you can do it by hand, but look at the enum support in .NET...), and the "write-once run-anywhere" bit never really materialised, especially due to UI issues.

Think of the .NET family as what would have happened had Java been allowed to progress normally. It has its warts in places, but I find it eminently more useful for real world work on non-trivial apps. Java is/was great for applets, but I vastly prefer C# now. You still get the "everything is a reference", strong typechecking, garbage collection, etc features of Java, plus a very practical real-world set of features and libraries. It's like Java++

[Karim]

One has to really keep their expectations realistic. You're not going to study VB or C++ for a couple months and then be able to program the next FOF ... unless of course you're brilliant.