Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[PilotMan]

How am I going to bed now!? My adrenaline is all juiced up!

[BishopMVP]

Did not see that coming... You could still tell Holm wanted nothing to do with the ground game, so the rematch could be an epic chess match.

[thesloppy]

Woooo! I'd like to toot my own horn, completely undeservedly, for the first Holm/Rousey post a year and a half ago:

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

I like Holly, she's humble and has paid her dues. I am also entertained by the fact that to some degree Holly Holm just fucked over the UFC in the worst way possible. Rousey had evolved into pretty much the face of the UFC, and with every endorsement and magazine cover the UFC rose along with Ronda, and I'm not sure that Holly can do that in the same fashion, or that she should/would even want to. Unfortunately, same goes for women's mma on the whole.

[JonInMiddleGA]

"Ka-boom"

[PilotMan]

The rematch is coming. That's where the big money will be no question.

[PilotMan]

Although if Cyborg comes down, and takes the title it at least makes a number of fights interesting.

[Solecismic]

What's ridiculous is that it was the shortest professional fight of Holm's career.

The Correia fight might have been the worst thing that could have happened to Rousey - it seemed to convince her that she could also outstrike a striker.

[thesloppy]

Yeah, that's all true, Rousey's star has hardly crashed, and a re-match can be just as lucrative. I could also see Ronda getting real tired of MMA real fast if she's not #1 for an extended period of time.

[Marmel]

The way she lost is going to take a whole lot of luster off of Rousey. She was assed out spread eagle on her back completely out. I know this happens in UFC, but this was bad. The rematch will be huge, of course, but Rousey fights were becoming a "thing"

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Marmel

The way she lost is going to take a whole lot of luster off of Rousey. She was assed out spread eagle on her back completely out. I know this happens in UFC, but this was bad. The rematch will be huge, of course, but Rousey fights were becoming a "thing"

And she wasn't just dropped by a lucky punch, she was getting soundly beat the whole way. I'll still give her the benefit of the doubt that she had a terrible game plan/maybe cardio as well, but she clearly needs to use an actual game plan to get Holm to the mat next time. Could be a great chess match - even tonight Holm had her back once and wanted nothing to do with it because she was dominating stand up.

[thesloppy]

I certainly don't know anything near enough to comment either way, but I've heard plenty of people talk crap about Rousey's corner/strategy, and coach Edmond in particular, to make me wonder if a change might do her good. Conversely, seemingly nobody has ever said anything bad about Mike Winklejohn.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I certainly don't know anything near enough to comment either way, but I've heard plenty of people talk crap about Rousey's corner/strategy, and coach Edmond in particular, to make me wonder if a change might do her good. Conversely, seemingly nobody has ever said anything bad about Mike Winklejohn.

Idk if the coach was the problem... I said before the fight that Ronda would only lose when she got too cocky and didn't train properly, just did not think that night was tonight. She has been hyped as being a class better than her competitors, and has actually backed that up enough, that I don't entirely blame her for assuming Holm would fold. That's why I'm really interested to see the rematch - the technical stuff will be fascinating, but I'm even more interested to see how Rowsey comports herself. Was she just a bully, or can she refocus and live up to her billing?

[TroyF]

She's clearly a bully. The not touching gloves thing was classless. I guess Holly didn't say anything horrible about her, so Rousey had to try to get some fake hatred going. It bit her square in the ass.

That said, she's clearly a bully, but she is obviously a fantastic fighter. I certainly wouldn't bet against her in the rematch. Everyone is saying overconfidence, bad training, etc.

At the end of the day, everyone agreed before this match she had never faced this type of a striker before and she hadn't faced anyone this athletic. Maybe, just maybe it wasn't overconfidence, but a fighter who came in with a superior game plan and executed it. Even if Rhonda wins the rematch in 12 second, I'm not sure I'm buying the overconfidence excuse. She just got drilled tonight.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by TroyF

She's clearly a bully. The not touching gloves thing was classless. I guess Holly didn't say anything horrible about her, so Rousey had to try to get some fake hatred going. It bit her square in the ass.

Yeah. Holly did push her fist through Ronda's face at the weigh-in, which was altogether minor, but of course more than enough to convince Ronda that she'd been disrespected.

Even more than the question game plan I think Rousey's previously succeeded on the back of her nearly lifelong physical judo competition, which gave her a competitive advantage over most of her previous opponents even if it couldn't all transfer over to MMA technically. In Holm she finally met someone whose competitive history & background matched up, even though it was in a different/opposite discipline.

Will be interesting to see Ronda's approach in a rematch, as the gap between their striking & movement doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that can be adjusted for in just 6-9 months. Holly's probably 12-13 years ahead of Rousey in terms of boxing training. Does Rousey devote herself to boxing training and try to even up that gap as best as she possibly can in the meantime, or does she stick with what she knows and maybe try to focus on better conditioning or movement, and hope she can get it to the ground at least once or twice again, but convert the next time, either through luck, persistence or a tweak in preparation? Like everybody else I agree that she'd probably look just as dominant as always if she could just get on top of Holly on the ground, but Holly is always going to start every fight & round with the advantage standing.

Unfortunately for the rest of the ladies, Holly having the belt also probably makes her a tougher opponent, since 5 round fights play into her conditioning and movement advantage, and it's the challengers who have to play aggressive, leaving Holm to her strengths of countering and slipping.

[Flasch186]

Totally disagree that this is bad for UFC. Best thing that has happened to them as now it opens up the division again. A lot more challengers and you get a Rousey redemption. Now miesha is in the discussion again. The face won the belt finally and the heel gets to attack and chase. The is the best WWE storyline in years and the WWE could learn from real life.

[Dutch]

The only problem UFC has with it's women's class is that Rousey is like Tiger Woods to Golf. Nobody is going to pay for a fight without Rousey in it...at least until another name becomes popular. Which, may never happen, honestly.

...and unlike Golf, there was nobody before Rousey...so it will be interesting to see if it can continue on without her on the card as a viable money making interest.

[Flasch186]

Disagree. UFC is masterful at quickly building momentum behind the next thing. This is a dream come true for UFC as the possibilities are endless and the heel was beaten by the preacher's daughter no less. Watch the build up. Sure you might not get a headliner for the next ppv but no knew thinks they're going to get Rousey buyins on every single ppv. This sets up the potential fight of the century in a little while.

[digamma]

The problem is Rousey wasn't the heel until late last night.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Disagree. UFC is masterful at quickly building momentum behind the next thing. This is a dream come true for UFC as the possibilities are endless and the heel was beaten by the preacher's daughter no less. Watch the build up. Sure you might not get a headliner for the next ppv but no knew thinks they're going to get Rousey buyins on every single ppv. This sets up the potential fight of the century in a little while.

Sorry, I disagree. yeah, the short term storyline (1 year, maybe 1.5 years) will be good. After that? Hell no. Cyborg was dominant, but NEVER generated the ratings Rousey did. Rousey was an EVENT for UFC. Not just another great figher, a massive event.

It's going to be really hard to get back to that level. Last night was a massive blow to both UFC and Rousey.

[thesloppy]

Yeah, I agree that it might be great for the UFC if you're looking at it strictly from the point of someone who's already invested in the sport, but Ronda's likely not getting magazine covers/features and T-mobile/Carl's Jr. ads and making movies & news headlines as anything other than champion/icon, and Holm/Cyborg/Tate probably aren't able/willing to hold up that level of hype/attention for themselves or the UFC, no matter how long they hypothetically hold the belt. Part of the cost for promoting Rousey as the undefeated, trailblazing, once-in-human-history icon is that nobody takes that icon title/status from her with the belt, it just kind of disappears into the ether.

[Suicane75]

I agree with both points, with the following caveat. An unbeaten Rousy probably wasn't hanging around much longer anyway. This at least helps them create another star and interest in the division. The rematch, for all intents and purposes will be what the Cyborg fight should have been, in terms of making money, and you don't need to deal with Cyborg, so it's a win for everyone except Cyborg.

The rematch is going to do insane numbers. Worry about the other stuff later.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

The problem is Rousey wasn't the heel until late last night.

She became the heel for me the instant she publicly backed Bernie Sanders.

That turned last night into the most vested I've been in a fight in quite a while.

[Flasch186]

I think she was the scsa heel or Brock heel for the last year. I think that this is huge and great for UFC and sets up years of matches where if Ronda kept winning her only matches would be those she wants to take before retiring.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by digamma

The problem is Rousey wasn't the heel until late last night.

I pay very little attention to MMA (basically catch Deadspin articles in passing) but I was pulling for the outside chance of her losing. Something about her just rubs me the wrong way.

[Solecismic]

There are positives and negatives. The Mike Tyson comparison is applicable in some ways. He wasn't the most likable person, but the sense of invulnerability and the quick knockouts got your instant respect. Boxing was forever changed after Buster Douglas.

Of course, boxing was huge before Tyson and already on the decline. MMA is still new and women's MMA is really only beginning.

Before Rousey there was Gina Carano. She hasn't fought since Cyborg knocked her out in her first and only loss. She is still acting. Obviously, it's only a guess, but it would surprise me if Rousey fought again. Once you lose because you've essentially switched careers, it's hard to go back.

In the short term, this is bad for the MMA because Rousey was generating huge numbers. In the long term, the future of the sport is in question for medical reasons - and that has nothing to do with Rousey. At some point, lawsuits from fighters who get a couple of thousand per bout are going to make it impossible to develop new fighters.

[molson]

Finally got through this whole show after a busy weekend where I had to scramble to find time to watch the Rousey fight early one the morning.

I posted about it after UFC 189, but I was reminded again, MMA has become my favorite sport. It's the only sport that keeps me on the edge of my seat, that gives me that adrenaline rush I used to have with other sports as a kid. I've been a Rousey fan for a long time, but I was so happy to see Holm pull this off.

Most of the company's biggest stars are fighting between now and January to setup possibilities for UFC 200. There's 7 title fights in that time, so there's a lot in play now. It will be interesting to see how much they load up that show, it will be their first event at the new MGM arena that they might buy the naming rights for. I could see them going big with three title fights - Rousey v. Holm II, maybe McGregor moving up to fight Ceronne if they both win next month, and either Weidman/Lawler/Dillahsaw or their challengers over the next few weeks. Throw in the winners of Overeem/Dos Santos and Miocic/Arlovski (or some other heavyweight fight) and maybe CM Punk (if he ever actually fights), and that will be just about the maximum buyrate they can get. Edit: And maybe even Cormier/Jones is on the table by then. And looking at the schedule, they actually have UFC 198 pegged for MSG in April even though MMA is not yet legal in New York, so if that actually happens they'll want to load up that show too.

[molson]

And this is a pretty interesting breakdown of how the boxer destroyed the non-boxer from a technical standpoint, with video gifs.

How Holly Holm Killed Queen Ronda Rousey | FIGHTLAND

[jbergey22]

Ronda Rousey vs. Holly Holm Fight Was Fixed, Alleges Former WWE Star Taz | Bleacher Report



The biggest problem with this theory is the bloodied face and nasty beating Rousey took. If it were a work I really doubt they would have had her get dominated like she did. Good try though Taz. WWE style would have been to go to a decision and Rousey get screwed by the judges.

[molson]

Tazz isn't very bright, but is is fascinating how so much smart money came in on Holm right before the right. That wasn't because the fight was rigged of course, that's because lots of people saw a great value here. Holm ended up fighting as only +525 underdog at the end. TJ Dillashaw was a bigger underdog against Barao last year. I'm sure I saw Holm at around +1200 or even higher a week or so before the fight. There was a lot of late speculation that Rousey was unbalanced emotionally - there was the Edmond bankruptcy thing, Rousey's mother freaking out, Travis Browne, Rousey criticized for bragging about her own domestic violence attack on a former boyfriend, Meltzer thought she looked heavier and sounded unfocused in interviews before her weight cut, and then - she acted like a crazy person at the weigh-in, and at that point the odds REALLY came crashing down.

http://www.mmaoddsbreaker.com/wp-con...ght-Upsets.png

(Edit: I low how three of the top 10 upsets were pulled off by Tim Syliva. Everybody underrated that big goofball.)

[CU Tiger]

it was +1200 as late as Friday morning.

Ive got a ticket to prove it

[molson]

Nice.

I can't imagine betting a huge underdog in MMA and seeing that play out in front of you. I generally parlay favorites when I bet MMA.

[molson]

I'm really surprised by this - it appears UFC 193 will be the second-biggest PPV in UFC history. And going into it, it was basically a Rousey squash match with a solid undercard.

UFC 193 breaks one million PPV buys, expected to finish second behind UFC 100 - MMAmania.com

I expected it to do a little less than the last Rousey show. I thought we were at that point where everybody would start to get bored by the Rousey thing until there was a legit challenger like Cyborg. Nope.

If Rousey comes back, Rousey v. Holm II will beat UFC 100 and be the biggest drawing MMA show of all time. I don't think they need to stock the card much beyond that main event, so maybe its worth saving all the big stars and title fights that are due for spring '16 and send them to other shows in the vicinity of UFC 200.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm really surprised by this - it appears UFC 193 will be the second-biggest PPV in UFC history. And going into it, it was basically a Rousey squash match with a solid undercard.

UFC 193 breaks one million PPV buys, expected to finish second behind UFC 100 - MMAmania.com

I expected it to do a little less than the last Rousey show. I thought we were at that point where everybody would start to get bored by the Rousey thing until there was a legit challenger like Cyborg. Nope.

If Rousey comes back, Rousey v. Holm II will beat UFC 100 and be the biggest drawing MMA show of all time. I don't think they need to stock the card much beyond that main event, so maybe its worth saving all the big stars and title fights that are due for spring '16 and send them to other shows in the vicinity of UFC 200.

Rousey is stepping away for ~6 months so Rousey Holm II may well be UFC 200

[PilotMan]

We should be in for a good run of cards here. The next card in December, 195, looks fantastic too.

We are really going to see just what Aldo and McGregor can do in the cage, and we get a great middleweight fight with Weidman and Rockhold. I know that Weidman still isn't a big draw and Rockhold's name value isn't high in comparison, but they should be really well matched.

The UFC is trying to set up all their champs and challengers so that 200 can be the biggest card ever and give themselves some roster flexibility.

[cartman]

Yeah, I think they are gonna end up having 200 at Jerry's World. There was talk of them having an event there in December that would have had both Rousey and the Aldo/McGregor fights on the card, but that fell through.

[djsatu]

4 hours till the main card of UFC 194. Can't wait to see Aldo/McGregor duke it out tonight. As cocky as McGregor is, I think he can pull off the ''upset'' so to speak. Either way im hoping to see a good fight! Who you all pulling for tonight?

[PilotMan]

I'm excited for tonight's card. I'm pulling for a good match. I don't really care who wins. I'd like to see Rockhold take out Weidman. I think that fight could either be good nor horrible. They are both very evenly balanced. I've been watching Rockhold since his rise in Strikeforce. He is no joke, but Weidman is right there, with a solid all around game.

This card reminds me of the older UFC cards. This one actually has some great depth and some good stories with it.

[PilotMan]

Finally got around to seeing last night's TUF finale. I said that one day Tony Ferguson would be fighting for the 155lb title, and after that fight he might be much sooner than later. Wow, what a fighter!

[EagleFan]

Through two rounds of the main card my jinx continues; when I purchase they are dogs. Hope this picks up.

[EagleFan]

At least the third round got better.

[EagleFan]

Thinking Weidman round 1, Rockhold round 2.

[EagleFan]

Thought that was going to be stopped.

[EagleFan]

Round 3 to Rockhold thanks to the last minute.

[EagleFan]

Nice win by Rockhold.

[EagleFan]

Now I seriously want to see Aldo shut McGregor up.

[EagleFan]

Um, wow...

[EagleFan]

crap

[EagleFan]

Live I didn't see the hit on Aldo, saw McGregor's head snap back and saw Aldo go down... thought wtf???

[Galaril]

Well Mcgregor walks the walk for sure.

[PilotMan]

I'm glad I didn't have money on that one.