Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[molson]

Originally Posted by Calis

Curious what it was for though, there's definitely more to it than just not wanting to do a couple promos or something.

One thing he's apparently wanted is to co-promote his fights with UFC. I'm not sure exactly what that would entail, but presumably he'd make way, way more money. He wants to be like an elite boxer who has more power than the promoters, and makes his own PPV deals.

If it's something like that, I'm glad UFC is standings its ground. MMA works so much better than boxing when you have the strong central organization. And I don't think people were even that excited for McGregor/Diaz 2 (a fight which McGregor probably would have lost - Diaz beat him on short notice, why wouldn't he be the favorite with a full camp?). There will be some kind of buyrate dip, but they're also going to save a ton of money.

[bhlloy]

Also worth noting that it came a week after he watched one of his stable mates kill a guy. It's quite possible that he's thinking this is the time that he wants to make a stand and have more control over his career and his compensation.

[bhlloy]

OK, so I'm seeing adverts for Cormier vs Jones 2 and Jones vs St. Preux on various channels (definitely seen the Cormier version on Fox Soccer and again a couple of mins ago on MLB Network this morning) - not sure if it's a screwup on the networks end but if not, that's a major case of false advertising going on. Cormier has been out of the fight for weeks.

Wonder if Jon has any insight here - how likely is it that the channels are just screwing up and playing an old version of an ad vs UFC promoting a more popular fight to try and get PPV views

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

OK, so I'm seeing adverts for Cormier vs Jones 2 and Jones vs St. Preux on various channels (definitely seen the Cormier version on Fox Soccer and again a couple of mins ago on MLB Network this morning) - not sure if it's a screwup on the networks end but if not, that's a major case of false advertising going on. Cormier has been out of the fight for weeks.

Wonder if Jon has any insight here - how likely is it that the channels are just screwing up and playing an old version of an ad vs UFC promoting a more popular fight to try and get PPV views

Very likely.

The sheer ineptitude that takes place with running the wrong spot, much less something like this that requires a copy change, beggars belief.

And if those are promos being used to cover local breaks (such as happens when you're watching on Dish/Direct) that are unfilled, the odds of it being corrected are probably below 50%. And if it's a promo being run by the local cable system to cover unsold inventory, the odds probably drop to 33% or less.

Trained chimps could do as much as the typical cable -- local or national -- operator does to get copy right.

They really don't seem to give a damn about running things correctly at this point, they have so much excess inventory unsold that they'll just give you 2,3,5,10 spots to 1 as a make good ... and that's for paying advertisers who might have a 1/3 chance of spotting the error in the first place. Internal stuff, like promos, I get no sense that anyone cares in the slightest.

edit to add: Actually trained chimps would likely do a better job. Untrained chimps would be about the same.

[molson]

I've seen promos for UFC shows that have already happened.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

I've seen promos for UFC shows that have already happened.

That's a common occurrence with radio spots too, especially on weekends.

It's the price of being heavily automated. In the olden days there was at least a chance of finding a capable human being that had a work ethic, they would prevent those kind of errors out of pride if nothing else. And if they didn't, they knew they stood a chance of being unemployed if it happened too often.

Computers simply do what they're told & between the lack of understanding of how to properly work the systems, the declining work ethic, inept & disinterested absentee ownership & even management, and the extreme hassles of firing some lazy nitwit these days ... well, this is the sort of thing that happens.

[bhlloy]

Cool, thanks for the insight!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Cool, thanks for the insight!

Heh, sorry about the way-more-than-you-ever-wanted-to-know reply.

It's kind of a sore subject with me, even moreso since it's something that's had a sharp impact on my income.

[bhlloy]

No, genuinely found that really interesting (and surprising that an industry with that much money floating around is conducted in that kind of way)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

No, genuinely found that really interesting (and surprising that an industry with that much money floating around is conducted in that kind of way)

The amount of money floating around is actually part of the problem. Things are pretty callous at the top of a lot of places, very little sense that anyone watches the nickels & dimes that comprise the dollars, they're too busy looking at abstract numbers & doing a 43rd projection for the month in order to justify their existence (since they really don't seem to know how to do much else).

The horror stories I've heard from people about the current breed of management have shocked even me, and I'm a cynical bastard from way back.

It's an industry that is in pretty bad shape but that seems likely to survive indefinitely since all the competition has similar or even worse issues. (Money that was moved off of television into digital is already coming back where it started because of click-fraud & the like, radio is a corpse, outdoor is a jumbled mess, print is a decomposed corpse)

[PilotMan]

Probably not going to watch tonight. Just not that intriguing of a card. Mighty Mouse should get more love than he does, but he is a victim of his own success. Jones shouldn't have too much trouble with OSP, but the layoff and OSP being incredibly strong might cause him some, but he should still be able to handle it.

[thesloppy]

Although it's not considered a performance drug, I'm wondering how much of Jones'es previous confidence was based on cocaine, and whether the absence of such (as well as any confidence that disappeared naturally, through the public struggles) will have more of an effect on his in-ring performance than folks suspect.

[SirFozzie]

This kick is "GOOD NIGHT. YOU GO SLEEP NOW". Didn't even have to follow it up.

VIDEO | Yair Rodriguez picks up unbelievable head kick KO win over Andre Fili | BJPenn.com UFC Fight News & Videos

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

This kick is "GOOD NIGHT. YOU GO SLEEP NOW". Didn't even have to follow it up.

VIDEO | Yair Rodriguez picks up unbelievable head kick KO win over Andre Fili | BJPenn.com UFC Fight News & Videos

That's nasty! Speaking of brutal finishes, anybody catch the soccer kick finish on the TUF premier? That's probably the nastiest finish I've seen that wasn't directed at the head. Dude was crumpled on the ground for like 10 minutes following. Finish starts at about 6:22

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Probably not going to watch tonight. Just not that intriguing of a card. Mighty Mouse should get more love than he does, but he is a victim of his own success. Jones shouldn't have too much trouble with OSP, but the layoff and OSP being incredibly strong might cause him some, but he should still be able to handle it.

As expected on both accounts. I did manage to catch the ME, and while Jones looked like he was capable of finishing the fight from about the 3rd round on, he didn't. He was tight and precise in his execution, but mentally he looked pretty apprehensive. I'd definitely chock that up to cage rust. All in all, it looked like a challenging sparring contest. A good warm up for a more important fight.

[vex]

Former Slytherin Bad Guy in 'Harry Potter' Movies Is Now an MMA Fighter | Bleacher Report

[EagleFan]

Anyone watching TUF?

Team Claudia!!!

Interesting dynamic in the house so far. Even though the coaches have bad blood that hasn't seemed to spill over to the teams. That one woman seems like an emotional wreck, wonder if she can hold it together.

Joanna seems like a b*tch. Claudia was right, Joanna is one of the worst trash talkers. She keeps trying but it's far from Connor McGregor level... "I'm going to be punching you July 8th."

[molson]

These rumors have been out there for a while, but ESPN has now jumped in:

UFC owners in advanced talks to sell promotion

According to ESPN, 4 groups have put in bids, and the winning bid is expected to be between $3.5 and $4 billion. Zuffa bought UFC in 2001 for $2 million.

[PilotMan]

I hate to say it, but if Zuffa sells, I have a feeling the shit show that follows will wreck the sport.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I hate to say it, but if Zuffa sells, I have a feeling the shit show that follows will wreck the sport.

My concern as well.

[molson]

I'll be front row cage-side for Bellator tonight. I'm a little disappointed there's no 50+ year olds on the card, but there is a little person - 4 foot 11 Tyler "Hulk Hands" Freeland.

I've been one UFC show in Vegas - the atmosphere was great, but you can't really follow the fights very well from any real distance. But I have always wanted to sit front row at an MMA event. Bellator in Boise was just the right C-level event to to make that happen affordably.

[molson]

Originally Posted by molson

I'll be front row cage-side for Bellator tonight. I'm a little disappointed there's no 50+ year olds on the card, but there is a little person - 4 foot 11 Tyler "Hulk Hands" Freeland.

I've been one UFC show in Vegas - the atmosphere was great, but you can't really follow the fights very well from any real distance. But I have always wanted to sit front row at an MMA event. Bellator in Boise was just the right C-level event to to make that happen affordably.

I think the main event might have been worse than Slice/Dada 5000

[PilotMan]

I'm just now getting caught up on the last Bellator show. Watching Marloes Coenen get subbed by a complete unknown was amazing. Easily one of biggest upsets ever in the cage. Coenen was supposed to be fighting for the title, her opponent pulled out, so they had someone take over on short notice. The other girl misses weight so it's a catchweight. Coenen was in control on the bottom, she swept to top control, then was totally schooled by the other girl and tapped by armbar. It was intense.

[molson]

Ya, Alexis Dufresne got destroyed by pretty mediocre competition in UFC to the extent Joe Rogan was openly saying on commentary that she didn't belong at that level of fighting. And she was coming off of maternity leave. Which, you wouldn't think would be great for a fighter, but a few new mothers have done really well - maybe the experience actually makes you tougher and more focused.

That was really the only noteworthy fight on the main card. It was fun how Bellator does prelims though. Rather than every fight having a set time like UFC does, the next fight stars immediately after the previous one ends, even if the previous one is a first-round stoppage. Any fights they can't squeeze in before the show, they do after the show. The crowd was booing the end of the main event on Friday, but before the two main event fighters even left the cage area, the next two locals guys were in the cage ready to go for the next dark fight - and there was 2 more after them, all more entertaining than what we got on the main show.

And just as another tangent, as a mostly-casual MMA fan who got into it pretty late in the game, I'm still surprised how much tolerance refs have for rule violations. Poking your opponent in the eye or kicking them in the groin has no consequence 90% of the time, as long as its seen as "accidental". I can't think of another sport where an "accidental" foul is just ignored. The main event was an example of this - the champion did almost nothing over 5 rounds, but he did manage two eye pokes and two groin shots. At one point Big John actually stopped the fight and told the cornermen to keep the guy in line, but there was never a point deduction. So really, there's no reason not to try to kick "near" the groin, or to wave your open fingers at your opponent's face like Jon Jones loves to do, because you get at least one freebie, usually two, and sometimes like in the main event on Friday night, four. And it's pretty impossible to know the intent of the fighter, so really, there's a real incentive to get one good groin shot and one good eye poke in at some point in every fight.

[thesloppy]

Holy shit! What a fun card last night, even the prelims were good. I didn't even bother to think about the possibility of Bisping winning.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Holy shit! What a fun card last night, even the prelims were good. I didn't even bother to think about the possibility of Bisping winning.

I would have put as much money as I could have spared on Bisping after Rockhold let slip that he has a blown out knee and that it had hampered his entire camp. I actually was talking about this before the fight with my wife. At the 5-1 margin it seems that people that listened to that press conference stood to make a fortune.

In other UFC news it seems that Ariel Helwani was escorted out of the building last night and issued a lifetime ban from Zuffa events for having the audacity to break the Brock Lesnar story first.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by dubb93

In other UFC news it seems that Ariel Helwani was escorted out of the building last night and issued a lifetime ban from Zuffa events for having the audacity to break the Brock Lesnar story first.

That's insane, he essentially got banned for doing his job and reporting the news. Those guys running the show are total nutjobs.

[PilotMan]

I love the idea of Lesnar coming back. Getting trashed by an overjuiced Overeem being the last images of his MMA career. I thought it sucked that that's how he went out, but the holes in his game were pretty obvious at that time. The years since haven't been kind I'm sure. It's a fun concept, and fun to watch, but how can he make any kind of meaningful impact? Dana channeling that fucking gnome Coker?

With Bisping's win 185 is a total mess right now. The title holder keeps getting knocked down, then Henderson, who was supposed to get a title shot at 205 years ago and looked like the TRT stuff would just retire him, comes back and takes out the other steroid prospect in Lombard. If Jacare takes on Bisping he wins easy. Without anyone able to get any kind of run going it's hard to say who the best one there is.

[Suicane75]

Fly em all to Japan and do a one night Grand Prix. I'm cool with Brock coming back, this isn't like Dadda or Kimbo. Guy was the HW champ and I'm sure he's still a beast. Kill or be killed, at least he can go out on his own terms.

[Mota]

Yup, I wouldn't discount Brock. After all, he lost his last match, but was recovering from a life threatening disease, and he faced a guy who was all doped up. Not a very fair matchup. On even grounds I think he has a fighting chance against anybody in that division.

[molson]

Brock will be fighting Mark Hunt at UFC 200. That's pretty much the most risky scenario for the WWE in terms of Brock missing Summerslam because he gets knocked out the month before. But, that's also a dream MMA matchup, so damn, UFC 200 has finally rounded out into something gigantic (barring injuries, of course).

Edit: And not officially announced by the UFC yet, but it looks like Punk v. Gall at UFC 202 underneath McGregor/Diaz 2. (Until Punk gets inured again) That's the night before WWE Summerslam, and it will have a huge audience, so I guess part of the Lesnar deal is the UFC promoting the WWE at that show. But damn, with Lesnar fighting Hunt and the risks associated with that, I hope the WWE is getting more than that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

But damn, with Lesnar fighting Hunt and the risks associated with that, I hope the WWE is getting more than that.

Of course, if Sonnen's take on ESPN the other night is accurate, there isn't much for WWE to get. Paraphrasing, but he basically said that the release of Lesnar to WWE always came with a "whenever I want you" clause. His phrasing was something to the effect that "to make this happen, nobody had to send a letter to Vince"

[molson]

It looks like this week or next might be the week we hear about a UFC sale. Numerous reputable sources reporting that the UFC opened the sealed bids today, and they're all for 100% of the company at more than $4 billion. (But Meltzer thinks they'll wait until after UFC 200 to announce the sale).

[thesloppy]

There's a whole heap of warranted criticism that you can pile on White, the Fertittas, or the UFC in general, but I have absolutely zero hope for the UFC once they're gone. For all of White's bluster and ego and individual personality wars, the UFC have also been remarkably flexible, adaptable and self-aware in genearal (at least for a sports league) under his/Zuffa rule, and seemed to almost always made the right choices when it came to expansion/managment. Considering literally nobody else in the history of modern combat sports can say the same, I don't have any confidence in the results.

As an aside, this season of TUF is horrible. Joanna and her team are the worst bunch of coaches I have ever seen. Pretty much every time they go to a training session on Joanna's side, it involves the fighters desperately asking for coaching, and getting none.

Fighter: "So, should I move forward behind my jab the whole time? Would that work?"
Coach: "Yes! Yes!"......."Yes!"

Excellent. Thanks for the help! Joanna herself is the worst, as she won't offer help either, and then when fighters ask for coaching she literally scoffs at them, and practically gets into it with her fighters for daring to ask for some coaching.

Fighter: "So, how should I approach her in this fight"
Joanna: "*PFFT* You're stronger than her!" angry frown "Don't let her control the position, and you win. That's it. That's all."

Uhhhhhh, ok. Thanks? Sorry for making you mad.

[MacroGuru]

Fight Night here in SLC in Aug and Court McGee gets to fight in front of the home crowd. I know I am going to be there.

[molson]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

There's a whole heap of warranted criticism that you can pile on White, the Fertittas, or the UFC in general, but I have absolutely zero hope for the UFC once they're gone. For all of White's bluster and ego and individual personality wars, the UFC have also been remarkably flexible, adaptable and self-aware in genearal (at least for a sports league) under his/Zuffa rule, and seemed to almost always made the right choices when it came to expansion/managment. Considering literally nobody else in the history of modern combat sports can say the same, I don't have any confidence in the results.

There's speculation that the winning bidder will want to keep White around as long as possible because, why not. I hope they do, but he'd be getting something like $500 million in the deal as a part-owner so who knows if he still would want to deal with it all.

I get the criticisms about fighter pay and trying to control the media, but from a fan perspective, I don't think UFC could be very much better.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by molson

There's speculation that the winning bidder will want to keep White around as long as possible because, why not. I hope they do, but he'd be getting something like $500 million in the deal as a part-owner so who knows if he still would want to deal with it all.

Yeah, with White and the Fertittas, they're good buddies, and seem to happily defer to Dana in 99.99% of UFC decisions...the dynamic would probably be completely different with some other (corporate?) entity...more employee than boss. If Dana's getting hundreds of millions out of the deal, I imagine he'd probably just walk away, unless him staying on is a necessary part of the sale.

[molson]

ESPN says Robert Kraft is a minority investor in one of the bids.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

There's a whole heap of warranted criticism that you can pile on White, the Fertittas, or the UFC in general, but I have absolutely zero hope for the UFC once they're gone. For all of White's bluster and ego and individual personality wars, the UFC have also been remarkably flexible, adaptable and self-aware in genearal (at least for a sports league) under his/Zuffa rule, and seemed to almost always made the right choices when it came to expansion/managment. Considering literally nobody else in the history of modern combat sports can say the same, I don't have any confidence in the results.

As an aside, this season of TUF is horrible. Joanna and her team are the worst bunch of coaches I have ever seen. Pretty much every time they go to a training session on Joanna's side, it involves the fighters desperately asking for coaching, and getting none.

Fighter: "So, should I move forward behind my jab the whole time? Would that work?"
Coach: "Yes! Yes!"......."Yes!"

Excellent. Thanks for the help! Joanna herself is the worst, as she won't offer help either, and then when fighters ask for coaching she literally scoffs at them, and practically gets into it with her fighters for daring to ask for some coaching.

Fighter: "So, how should I approach her in this fight"
Joanna: "*PFFT* You're stronger than her!" angry frown "Don't let her control the position, and you win. That's it. That's all."

Uhhhhhh, ok. Thanks? Sorry for making you mad.

I have liked this season because the fighters have been easier to deal with, not all the drama. Plus, Claudia.

Joanna has been an awful coach. Gotta love it when she called them pussies after losing the first two.

Should be a fun finale, hope Claudia taps her out early.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by molson

ESPN says Robert Kraft is a minority investor in one of the bids.

So cheating will be encouraged and rewarded.

[CU Tiger]

I think with the current concussion climate, and all the skeletons in the closets Dana takes his payday and walks away. With a nice stipulation the sales contract of full indemnity to former owners.

[molson]

Apparently the UFC has accepted a bid. It looks like Dana White will get paid for his current share in the company but will stay on and get a new ownership interest. Joe Silva and Sean Shelby would also stay, but there would be a new CEO who would focus on expanding the company to new markets.

Sources: Zuffa Accepts $4.2 Billion Bid for Sale of UFC | FloCombat

[JonInMiddleGA]

SportsCenter
@SportsCenter


BREAKING: The fight between Jon Jones & Daniel Cormier at UFC 200 is off due to potential doping violation by Jones.

[bhlloy]

That was going to be a UFC card that would have got me to buy a PPV after a break of a couple of years (at least). The UFC is completely cursed right now.

[PilotMan]

Holy crap. Wow, I was just considering the same thing. So now it's going to be on Brock to carry UFC 200? Maybe I wonder if Conor is on the phone as we speak?

Diaz/McGregor 2, even less training than before. Duhn, duhn Duhhhhhhn.

[Suicane75]

Jon Jones might be the single biggest idiot on the planet. It'd be hard to fuck a career up this bad if that's what you were trying to do.

[BYU 14]

Jones is the fucking Maziel of UFC. Talented fighter, but phony as hell as a person and a complete idiot for this. Probably a 2 year suspension at least.

[molson]

Unbelievable. I was just thinking how relatively unscathed these three nights of shows coming up were.

Poor Cormier. Jones cost him millions. Unless they find a replacement. I think a lot of people would be willing to step in. Cormier said he's willing to fight at 220 or 225. But White said he'd lean towards holding Cormier out if the only fight they put together was some random pairing that didn't make sense. Alexander Gustafsson said recently that he'd step in for either guy on short notice.

Shit, they're lucky they got Lesnar, otherwise I guess we'd be looking at a Tate/Nunes main event?

It's still a really deep card, all the way down through the prelims. Nothing worthy of a UFC 200 main event, but lots of great fights over the next few days.

[bhlloy]

One thing for sure, he should be done with the UFC after this. Not sure how many times you can ruin a card and embarrass the organization, but I guess he's about to set the limit.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

One thing for sure, he should be done with the UFC after this. Not sure how many times you can ruin a card and embarrass the organization, but I guess he's about to set the limit.

After that press conference just now, he should just be done.