The NFL 2011 Offseason/Strike/Lockout Thread

[SirFozzie]

Well, some interesting news today, as the currently appointed arbitrator (who was already on his way to being replaced in the next CBA because the owners hate his guts, thinking he rules in favor of the players way too often), reversed a prior decision that would see the league collect $4 billion in TV rights, even if no games were played in 2011.

From what I understand, while the teams have a decent warchest, and $900 million available from the league to pay the bills, this is a rather significant blow to the NFL's plans to get a much better deal this time around, as they were counting on this money being available to do things like pay off stadium loans, etcetera. This might bring back the owners to the bargaining table quicker.

I still think there's going to be at least a short lockout, but I think today's decision makes it more likely there will be a full season.

Federal judge sides with NFL union in TV dispute - NFL - SI.com

[Crapshoot]

Great ruling. The NFL has been planning a lockout for years, and the Judge made the reasonable point that once player compensation was a revenue %, they had a duty to maximize revenues, not to set up a slush fund to use as a cudgel against the players. The NFLPA is a pretty weak union overall (and yes, I know they get a good deal last time, but compare it to MLBPA) and if this helps them grow some balls against owners that have a license to mint money, the better.

[JPhillips]

I've thought for a while the problem isn't really players vs owners, but small market vs large market. I think either group of owners could find a deal with the players, but the needs of both groups of owners make it very difficult to find a deal with players.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well, some interesting news today, as the currently appointed arbitrator (who was already on his way to being replaced in the next CBA because the owners hate his guts...

That's only if the union doesn't decertify before the CBA expires and files a class action suit before the deadline.

[gstelmack]

The NFL will get a rookie wage scale and an 18-game season.

The NFLPA will get the big cut of revenues they want, as the two above will give the owners the extra revenue they need and reduce the risk of investing in 1st round picks.

Players will continue to whine about injuries while still wearing dangerous old-style helmets and cutting way back on pads so they can keep their speed up.

Owners will continue to whine about the cut the players are taking while forcing fans out of stadiums in favor of corporate sponsors.

Fans will continue to enjoy games in the privacy of their own homes in high definition on large-screen TVs, except for those the NFL decides to horde and not make widely available, and laugh when teams complain about declining attendance.

Da da da da da Life Goes On...

[albionmoonlight]

parties agree to 24 hour extension to debate longer extension.

This falls under the heading "not bad news." I would not go so far as to call it "good news." March 4 was always an artificial deadline, so extending it isn't really that big of a deal. That said, if the parties were so far apart that they knew that there was zero chance of a deal, then they probably would not have bothered with an extension.

As an old teacher of mine liked to say, "it's better than a sharp stick in the eye."

[gstelmack]

"We have made player safety our biggest concern, and we won't back off on that," said Tennessee Titans guard and player representative Jake Scott.

Read more: Bottom line might not be bottom line in NFL talks - NFL - SI.com

Then tell your players to start wearing some of the more modern helmets that not only protect yourself from concussion, but protect the guys you hit. Tell your players to start tackling correctly instead of trying to make the ESPN highlight reels. Stop complaining that the NFL is trying to wussify the game by penalizing violent hits. And tell your players to start wearing all the pads available to them instead of skimping on thigh pads and the like because you think it makes you a bit faster.

Then maybe I'll believe you.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

[/color]

Then tell your players to start wearing some of the more modern helmets that not only protect yourself from concussion, but protect the guys you hit. Tell your players to start tackling correctly instead of trying to make the ESPN highlight reels. Stop complaining that the NFL is trying to wussify the game by penalizing violent hits. And tell your players to start wearing all the pads available to them instead of skimping on thigh pads and the like because you think it makes you a bit faster.

Then maybe I'll believe you.[/left]

I also wonder how much of the money issue is really geared towards the now versus their careers after they are done. Far too many stories of life post the NFL that need to be corrected.

[Honolulu Blue]

Now the fun begins...

[molson]

I'm kind of rooting for an extended lockout if there's some kind of accompanying chaos down the road - replacement players, an 8-game shortened season, a new league, re-allignment, contraction, whatever - all with the backdrop of these people losing milllions or billions of dollars. Something interesting. I think though, that everything will be resolved in time and we'll be back to business as usual.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm kind of rooting for an extended lockout if there's some kind of accompanying chaos down the road - replacement players, an 8-game shortened season, a new league, re-allignment, contraction, whatever - all with the backdrop of these people losing milllions or billions of dollars. Something interesting. I think though, that everything will be resolved in time and we'll be back to business as usual.

Same here. I'm hoping it all gets resolved and we all have NFL football this Fall, but if they are going to screw things up and damage even part of the season (or more), I hope they take themselves back to the stone ages.

[Mustang]

I see an end to the draft, the salary cap and Jerrah and friends spending gobs of money at players. Baseball.. weeeeeeeee..

[gstelmack]

Wonder how the UFL affects this. Players will sue for anti-trust, but if the NFL can point out that the players could go play in the UFL, or even the Canadian League, I wonder how that plays out in court?

[RedKingGold]

Everyone presumes that the league response to decertification might be lockout, not so fast my friend.

I think free agency, and the real NFL offseason, could begin very soon. Perhaps as early as 12:01 am tonight.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Wonder how the UFL affects this. Players will sue for anti-trust, but if the NFL can point out that the players could go play in the UFL, or even the Canadian League, I wonder how that plays out in court?

Players are still bound by individual contracts to NFL clubs unless the contracts are expired or mutual breach by both parties.

[MacroGuru]

meh...I just lost that much more interest in the NFL.

Millionaires fighting over money....doesn't make for a warm spot in my heart. (Of course, I am not one of the millionaires fighting for money, if I was...different story)

[JediKooter]

Maybe baseball can play through December?

[fantom1979]

.

[fantom1979]

I wonder how this gets resolved now... If the union is decertified, who do the owners negotiate with?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

I wonder how this gets resolved now... If the union is decertified, who do the owners negotiate with?

This guy:


terry tate.jpg

[Mustang]

Seems like with no CBA nothing could stop the owners from just saying.. oh.. 18 games? Ya.. we're doing now.

[JediKooter]

Hopefully they are not getting counsel from this guy...

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

I wonder how this gets resolved now... If the union is decertified, who do the owners negotiate with?

Any future negotiations will occur during talks to settle the lawsuit just filed by several NFL players. Likely included in that lawsuit is a request for a preliminary injunction which, if granted (and most assume it will), will prevent NFL owners from locking out players and will allow/require the NFL to operate under rules from prior years or to establish new rules for the NFL off-season.

There is precedent for this decertification procedure. After the 1987 strike, the players decertified and litigated through the courts over a period of several years. The outcome was the collective bargaining agreement in 1993 which was extended multiple times with slight changes up until today.

In short, the NFL will most likely have an off-season beginning as soon as tonight or as late as Aprilish and will not miss any games while the process is hashed out in the courts.

[RedKingGold]

Of course I'm no insider, but I've been following these negotiations and this "lockout" issue for awhile because I love football and labor law. Also, I'm lucky enough to be working for a law firm which allows me to participate in multiple labor negotiations governed by the NLRB, so I have some practical knowledge to guess at what's going on during the mediation/negotiations.

I feel that there is strong historical precedent for what is going on, and am amused by the media getting played by both the NFL and NFLPA.

Twitter has been a friggin blast today.

[Mustang]

Sweet.. agents aren't certified now so anyone is free to become a agent now.

I declare myself a NFL Agent. Time to get some business cards made up.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Of course I'm no insider, but I've been following these negotiations and this "lockout" issue for awhile because I love football and labor law. Also, I'm lucky enough to be working for a law firm which allows me to participate in multiple labor negotiations governed by the NLRB, so I have some practical knowledge to guess at what's going on during the mediation/negotiations.

I feel that there is strong historical precedent for what is going on, and am amused by the media getting played by both the NFL and NFLPA.

Twitter has been a friggin blast today.

This. All of this play, and it seems what is most likely to happen is little to nothing but "status quo" for a couple of years while this gets hashed out. It might get settled sooner, but most likely the legal wrangling will draw it out. Meanwhile, injuctions will prevent the lockout and keep the current CBA in place for the forseeable future.

[General Mike]

I remember the last time a sports union decertified. Owners ended up getting everything they wanted.

Edit" Nevermind, the basketball players didn't decertify. They just threatened to, then folded like a cheap suit.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

edit: no one wants to read your political diatribes drunkard

[Mountaineer]

forever to be known as Brady et al vs. National Football League et al — attacked the league's policies on the draft, salary cap and free-agent restrictions such as franchise-player tags.

Read more: Lockout, decertification leave NFL in limbo - San Antonio Express-News]

So, the players want to do away with The Draft, The Salary Cap, and The Franchise Tag.

Wouldn't this completely kill football and turn it into a Baseball scenario where only Major Market teams get to compete?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Seems like with no CBA nothing could stop the owners from just saying.. oh.. 18 games? Ya.. we're doing now.

This. Plus a rookie wage cap, and another billion off the top.

Make the new rules everything the owners wanted and force the players to play under that system or strike.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Sweet.. agents aren't certified now so anyone is free to become a agent now.

I declare myself a NFL Agent. Time to get some business cards made up.

Congrats on your new profession. Now you just need to find a single mother and a goldfish.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

So, the players want to do away with The Draft, The Salary Cap, and The Franchise Tag.

Wouldn't this completely kill football and turn it into a Baseball scenario where only Major Market teams get to compete?

The players don't want to kill any of that(well maybe the franchise tag). Those are just eamples of anti-competetive practices now that the union has decertified. It's just leagal manuevering.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Chubby

This. Plus a rookie wage cap, and another billion off the top.

Make the new rules everything the owners wanted and force the players to play under that system or strike.

Doing that will seal their fate in court. The players are going to argue unfair labor practices and anti-competitive practices and unilaterally installing all those proposed changes will only prove the player's point.

Unless the owners chicken out this is going to play out over several years in the court system.

[BillJasper]

Am I the only one who just doesn't care about this? If there is NFL football in the fall, great. If not, I'll find something else to do with my time and money.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Am I the only one who just doesn't care about this? If there is NFL football in the fall, great. If not, I'll find something else to do with my time and money.

+1

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

So, the players want to do away with The Draft, The Salary Cap, and The Franchise Tag.

Wouldn't this completely kill football and turn it into a Baseball scenario where only Major Market teams get to compete?

I really wish your average football man had a better arguement than this. I must have missed those big-market Tampa Bay Rays or big-market Minnesota Twins or big-market San Diego Padres or big market Reds competing last year, or the year before that.

Once again, I'm fully with the players here - the owners are killing the golden goose (they lose money, they don't deserve to be owners), and to suggest players who were happy with the current deal should suffer is absurd. The NFL is a bunch of fucking hypocrites - "concern" about player safety while ignoring years of concussion studies and advocating for an 18 game season?

[DeToxRox]

Minnesota Vikings Star Chris Cook Arrested in Lynchburg
Posted:

Reporter: Mark Kelly

Lynchburg,VA - Minnesota Vikings player, and Lynchburg football star Chris Cook was arrested Saturday evening.

Lynchburg Police say Cook's charged with brandishing a handgun during a fight with another man. The incident happened on the 2200 block of Halifax Avenue around 5:30 p.m. Cook was arrested shortly after the incident.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

+1

-1, I WILL DIE!

[Blade6119]

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Doing that will seal their fate in court. The players are going to argue unfair labor practices and anti-competitive practices and unilaterally installing all those proposed changes will only prove the player's point.

Unless the owners chicken out this is going to play out over several years in the court system.

While the NFL argues that the players never had any intention of trying to deal as their plan all along was to decertify and go to court. Both sides are just as guilty and not wanting a deal.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Chubby

While the NFL argues that the players never had any intention of trying to deal as their plan all along was to decertify and go to court. Both sides are just as guilty and not wanting a deal.

Sure, but the owners unilaterally implementing their deal will kill them in court.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Sure, but the owners unilaterally implementing their deal will kill them in court.

except that allows football to continue, i don't think they will do it right away. they are playing it right right now in all their noise is getting back to the table. once the court rules on the injuction I suspect it will start moving towards a "we need to implement new rules to save the 2011 season" which in turn turns the lockout into a strike.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Chubby

except that allows football to continue, i don't think they will do it right away. they are playing it right right now in all their noise is getting back to the table. once the court rules on the injuction I suspect it will start moving towards a "we need to implement new rules to save the 2011 season" which in turn turns the lockout into a strike.

Nah. If the judge deciding the case (who may not be Judge Doty) grants the injunction, it will most likely be to operate under rules as they were for the 2011 NFL Calendar year. Owners will not be able to unilaterally change the rules unless it would have been allowed under the old CBA.

In other words, the owners/players will act as if there was still a CBA in place.

EDIT: If the injunction is not granted, however, the owners have no reason to end the lockout until games are missed or Players cave.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I really wish your average football man had a better arguement than this. I must have missed those big-market Tampa Bay Rays or big-market Minnesota Twins or big-market San Diego Padres or big market Reds competing last year, or the year before that.

Once again, I'm fully with the players here - the owners are killing the golden goose (they lose money, they don't deserve to be owners), and to suggest players who were happy with the current deal should suffer is absurd. The NFL is a bunch of fucking hypocrites - "concern" about player safety while ignoring years of concussion studies and advocating for an 18 game season?

+1

I love how all but Jerry Jones think that they get to keep getting richer without having to invest any more of their own money. These owners are just ridiculous. They want new stadiums paid for by the state or city they play in or they threaten to move. Now they are trying to throw the investment aspect on the players. What the hell do we even have owners for? The players should take the 9 billion dollars and set up the NFL the way they want and get rid of these greedy frikin owners that do nothing except take.

The best solution is to have the states or cities teams play for take over the team. They are the ones paying for it anyway. Might as well have the money go back into the state/city rather than make a bunch of billionaire owners even richer.

[Swaggs]

I wonder if the states/cities/towns/etc. can sue the owners for a lock out if they financed the facillities. It seems like they would have a reasonable case, as it is preventing labor (all the stadium vendors, secruity, off-duty police/emergency workers, etc.) along with keeping the players from earning money (which is witholding significant income taxes from the area).

[gstelmack]

The more I read, the more I think the primary goal for the players is complete access to the owners' books, since that seems to be the primary sticking point given that the owners came to the players' position on nearly everything else.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Wouldn't this completely kill football and turn it into a Baseball scenario where only Major Market teams get to compete?

You mean like how MLB operates with foreign free agents, where the Reds spend $30M on Aroldis Chapman, or the Mariners sign someone like Felix Hernandez, or the Marlins sign someone like Miguel Cabrera, or teams like the Pirates sign a bunch of DR guys every year, or the Royals open a DR academy? Yeah, it's killing baseball's competitive spirit - the Red Sox and Yankees get them all. Like Kei Igawa and Dice-K and all those other awesome foreign players tearing up the majors right now!

[Ksyrup]

So if the NFLPA is really going to try to organize a boycott of the draft, they should find a network (Versus? TBS?) where they can hold a mock ceremony at the same time the picks are made so that the players/families get the experience of walking on the stage and celebrating the pick. That would be hilarious and awesome. You'd probably end up with more fans at the site where the players are going to be than at the actual draft.

NFL can pound sand. With college football taking up half the weekend anyway, it's not like a die-hard football fan is going to go through football withdrawals if the NFL isn't playing. Some of the NEasterners might not care as much, but it'll satisfy the jonesin' for football.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Danny

-1, I WILL DIE!

Sorry to hear that....would this be an inopportune time to ask if wine and cheese will be served at your wake?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So if the NFLPA is really going to try to organize a boycott of the draft, they should find a network (Versus? TBS?) where they can hold a mock ceremony at the same time the picks are made so that the players/families get the experience of walking on the stage and celebrating the pick. That would be hilarious and awesome. You'd probably end up with more fans at the site where the players are going to be than at the actual draft.

NFL can pound sand. With college football taking up half the weekend anyway, it's not like a die-hard football fan is going to go through football withdrawals if the NFL isn't playing. Some of the NEasterners might not care as much, but it'll satisfy the jonesin' for football.

1. I find it very funny that the NFLPA is now (allegedly) calling for this boycott just after (allegedly) decertifying as a union. Sure will make those "it's just a sham" claim from the owners easy to prove.

2. I also find it funny that the NFLPA (or whoever) wants these kids to boycott and not get their moment in the spotlight when the NFLPA is willingly throwing these kids under the bus as a negotiating point with the owners. "Oh, you're costing me $40 million in guaranteed money. Sure, I'll listen to whatever you have to say!"

3. I'd be fine with no NFL too.