Saudi & Women's Suffrage

[Dutch]

Saudi Arabia criticised over text alerts tracking women's movements | World news | guardian.co.uk

Typically, the world has turned a blind eye towards Saudi Arabia's abuses of women, but should we start pressuring them to behave more like a civilized/modern society like we do with so many other places in the middle east?

This is not a US problem, not an oil problem, it's just a human rights problem. I believe many of the women have been brain-washed into believing it's proper, but that doesn't make it right.

Sorry for being biased right out the gate on a discussion...it just seems like a no-brainer to be unhappy with this sort of treatment of people in this day and age.

[BillJasper]

Why? These people will move forward when they're ready to move forward. Us pressuring them to change their ways just pushes them to withdrawal even more. And it just makes them hate us even more.

[Dutch]

The Saudi's hate the world?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Dutch

The Saudi's hate the world?

Weren't a bunch of the 9/11 hijackers from Saudi Arabia? Including Bin Laden?

Women in Saudi Arabia have to be the ones to drive the change in their culture.

[Dutch]

I think you're missing the point. I am wondering if the "world" should take issue with Saudi Arabia, not just the US. The opperssion of women in another country isn't directly a US issue.

[DaddyTorgo]

Should yes...will no.

[BillJasper]

No, the world shouldn't give a shit either. The women of Saudi Arabia need to drive the process if they're unhappy with the conditions they live under.

Not trying to be a dick, but these things will take care of themselves in time as the world becomes a smaller place and they're exposed to different cultures and ways of living.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Dutch

This is not a US problem, not an oil problem, it's just a human rights problem. I believe many of the women have been brain-washed into believing it's proper, but that doesn't make it right.

Hear, hear.

These problems are rarely simple -- as there are always multiple offsetting goals in play -- but humanity should stand for certain things, and basic equalities are among them. That does tend to intrude on various cultures and beliefs that trace back to a less enlightened time, but it's still the thoroughly appropriate way to anchor our collective beliefs.

A related issue here is whether the US/West's objective really ought to be democracy (that sells well politically) or basic freedoms (fundamentally more important). The next decade in that region might go a long way toward clarifying that question.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Why? These people will move forward when they're ready to move forward. Us pressuring them to change their ways just pushes them to withdrawal even more. And it just makes them hate us even more.

We can stop giving the aid in both terms of financial and military equipment.

[Drake]

The value of world pressure, even if it doesn't seem to accomplish anything directly, is that it gives people the opportunity to imagine different outcomes. It plants the seed of an idea that you can have a different life than your mother had.

Expose Saudi women to the idea that they can have a different life, and they'll do the rest of the work organically.

[JPhillips]

We should treat them the same way we treated South Africa, but we will continue to turn a blind eye. QS is right, if the U.S. is really the shining city on a hill, we need to stand for basic freedoms, not just easy access to cheaper oil.

[Chief Rum]

Saudi Arabia is one of our few "friends" in the ME. While you can argue the value of that friendship or what it constitutes or why it exists, the fact is it does and it matters in that region. There's a lot more at stake than just women's rights in Saudi Arabia if we decide to apply political and/or economic pressure on the Saudis.