Boomers vs Millennials

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

That was it!

The old hard drive still works! haha!

Watching some documentaries about the 60s and how the hippies seemed like some sincere people that wanted to change the world for the better but then you realize they are the same people bitching about millennials trying to change things for the better.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If only there was something that could attract them, like ... a beer tent

beer is one of the industries us millenials are killing dontcha know.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

beer is one of the industries us millenials are killing dontcha know.

You kids with your damn white claw.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

The old hard drive still works! haha!

Watching some documentaries about the 60s and how the hippies seemed like some sincere people that wanted to change the world for the better but then you realize they are the same people bitching about millennials trying to change things for the better.

Yeah, for most of my life pop culture suggested that the boomer generation was characterized by Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda' in Easy Rider but history has suggested that maybe the hicks with the shotguns were the actual representatives of boomer culture.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You kids with your damn white claw.

Is that any good?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Is that any good?

Actually really good. Problem is you can easily put away 10-12 of them before you realize you're smashed.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Actually really good. Problem is you can easily put away 10-12 of them before you realize you're smashed.

Ah yes, they've taken on the Zima and wine coolers role.

[tarcone]

[Brian Swartz]

I think it's hilarious that the same people who are forever saying (correctly) how terrible it is to judge by the group are here and in the other thread having no issue whatsoever painting with that broad brush and throwing boomers, in their entirety, under the bus.

Which basically shows all that concern for the Other to be the pile of hogwash always was for most involved. In general it's about what it's always been about and always will be about - conflict between groups and while I salute those who try to treat everyone well and aspire to be one who does, the stone-throwing is about power for those we like and taking it away from those we don't.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Ah yes, they've taken on the Zima and wine coolers role.

And deserve every bit of the mockery that garbage got the first time around.

I'm actually torn on what I mock more often though, the White Claw crowd or the IPA crowd. Neither have any working taste buds.

[BYU 14]

Boomer, barely (1963) but I don't really relate to the stereotype of my generation at all. And though Millennial's are sometimes annoying in their zeal, I appreciate the fact that they are much more involved in their world at a young age than my generation was. As a while I think I relate much better to Gen X than any other which makes sense being on the cusp.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Boomer, barely (1963) but I don't really relate to the stereotype of my generation at all. And though Millennial's are sometimes annoying in their zeal, I appreciate the fact that they are much more involved in their world at a young age than my generation was. As a while I think I relate much better to Gen X than any other which makes sense being on the cusp.

Most boomers aren't built like brick shithouses either

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by molson

Ah yes, they've taken on the Zima and wine coolers role.

Bartles and James! Different when it came out but was never really a fan

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I remember if we were out, at the movies or something, and it was time to get picked up we would collect call our parents. When the call went through and the operator was asking if they would accept it we would just yell over them "ready to be picked up!!" and hang up the phone.

Remember emergency breakthroughs before call waiting was the norm?

I did this as well. "I'm at the school, come pick me up" as fast as you could possibly say it.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Most boomers aren't built like brick shithouses either

Maintaining that is a whole other story, as I get ready for another shoulder surgery LOL

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

What was the boomer saying back then...never trust anyone over 30 or something like that?

Looked up the originator of the saying, he was not a Boomer but part of the Silent Generation.

Jack Weinberg - Wikipedia

Jack Weinberg (born April 4, 1940) is an environmental activist and former New Left activist who is best known for his role in the Free Speech Movement at the University of California, Berkeley in 1964.
:
Weinberg is the person who coined the saying "Don't trust anyone over 30".[21][22] The saying exists in several variants, such as "Never trust anybody over 30". Origination of the saying has been wrongly attributed to Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, the Beatles, and others. In November 1964, Weinberg was interviewed by a reporter[23] for the San Francisco Chronicle working on a story about the Free Speech Movement. Weinberg tells the story like this:

I was being interviewed by a newspaper reporter, and he was making me very angry. It seemed to me his questions were implying that we were being directed behind the scenes by Communists or some other sinister group. I told him we had a saying in the movement that we don't trust anybody over 30. It was a way of telling the guy to back off, that nobody was pulling our strings.[24]

On November 15, 1964, the Chronicle printed the story, quoting Weinberg as saying "We have a saying in the movement that you can't trust anybody over 30."[10]

Jack Weinberg uttered the phrase – which became one of the most memorable expressions of the turbulent 1960s era – during the height of the Free Speech Movement at UC Berkeley. The Free Speech Movement was a struggle by students over the right to engage in political speech on campus, which helped to catalyze broader political activism on campuses around the country over student rights, civil rights and the Vietnam War.

[thesloppy]

That seems like a technicality to me. I would consider someone who spent the entirety of their 20s in the 60s a boomer. YMMV.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think it's hilarious that the same people who are forever saying (correctly) how terrible it is to judge by the group are here and in the other thread having no issue whatsoever painting with that broad brush and throwing boomers, in their entirety, under the bus.

Which basically shows all that concern for the Other to be the pile of hogwash always was for most involved. In general it's about what it's always been about and always will be about - conflict between groups and while I salute those who try to treat everyone well and aspire to be one who does, the stone-throwing is about power for those we like and taking it away from those we don't.

Ok Boomer

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

That seems like a technicality to me. I would consider someone who spent the entirety of their 20s in the 60s a boomer. YMMV.

1940 vs 1946 so 6 years is a pretty big difference according to the wiki definition. If he was on the cusp/edge (like many of us have already stated we are) then sure. The phrase was coined by a Silent Generation guy as the Boomer generation was growing up.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think it's hilarious that the same people who are forever saying (correctly) how terrible it is to judge by the group are here and in the other thread having no issue whatsoever painting with that broad brush and throwing boomers, in their entirety, under the bus.

Which basically shows all that concern for the Other to be the pile of hogwash always was for most involved. In general it's about what it's always been about and always will be about - conflict between groups and while I salute those who try to treat everyone well and aspire to be one who does, the stone-throwing is about power for those we like and taking it away from those we don't.

I do agree it doesn't seem ageism carries the same weight as racism, sexism, homophobisms (?) etc.

My guess is many blame the older generations for the faults of today and therefore they deserve it. Obviously there is blame just like there was blame in all the previous generations, and just like there will be blame placed on the Millennials by Generation Z and the "Crystal Pepsi" Generation and on and on.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Butter

Ok Boomer

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

Ok, Late GenX'er

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Edward64

My guess is many blame the older generations for the faults of today and therefore they deserve it. Obviously there is blame just like there was blame in all the previous generations, and just like there will be blame placed on the Millennials by Generation Z and the "Crystal Pepsi" Generation and on and on.

There is some truth in that, but what is unique about the boomers is that they upset the population curve.

There are still more boomers than gen xers or millennials in the US even right now. As such they have held more cultural, economic and political influence than every other generation for the entirety of their lives, and two entire generations below them have essentially had their turns "in charge" skipped over due simply to the Boomers' collective size. The argument that they are especially to blame for all of today's faults is pretty strong.



As such, any cries about ageism from boomers sound kind of hollow, like wealthy white men who complain of reverse-racism. It's hard to muster up much sympathy when the group collectively holding the most power and money wants to cry discrimination.

Noting the size of Generation Z, and the fact that they just started to cross over into voting & buying age, I'd imagine we're going to start to see some significant shifts in the coming years.

[Brian Swartz]

By the numbers on your own chart, excluding Generation Z entirely, boomers account for less than a third of the electorate. Even less than that if you add in the first few years of Z. They also have nearly-identical numbers to Milennials. Nevermind that they have never been a majority of the country at any time. In other words, anything stupid they've done, they've had a lot of help doing from others. I find your conclusions unwarranted.

The even more fundamental point is that discrimination isn't wrong because the group being discriminated against has or doesn't have power/influence/etc. When it's wrong, it's wrong because discriminating in certain ways is wrong regardless of who it's done to. Period.

[Fidatelo]

[Fidatelo]

I'm a late X'er (77). I relate more to X'ers but feel sort of a small amount of impostor syndrome because the early-mid X'ers are the ones that truly got screwed in terms of jobs coming out of school, which tends to be a lot of what drove the angst and attitude that defines the generation.

For kids from about 75 on the economy was starting to pick up again as they came out of high-school/college and we ramped into the Dot-Com era. So while I definitely identify with the culture in terms of music and clothing and fully appreciate where the morals and attitudes of my generation come from I do feel like I sort of 'skipped over' the actual struggles.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Hah, the stuck in-between image that came to mind was Prince Charles, king in waiting, to get his inheritance (why won't she pass away!) and figuring out why his son married "her".

I know Charles obviously isn't Gen X but thought I would toss out that analogy for some levity. BTW, finished watching The Crown s3. Don't know how accurate Charles & Camilla's portrayal is in the series but I did feel a lot of sympathy for them.

I hope that William & Kate turn out well (looking good so far) and very much hope that Charlotte, George and Louis are allowed to pursue and marry who they really want to marry.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

Same actually

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

By the numbers on your own chart, excluding Generation Z entirely, boomers account for less than a third of the electorate. Even less than that if you add in the first few years of Z. They also have nearly-identical numbers to Milennials. Nevermind that they have never been a majority of the country at any time. In other words, anything stupid they've done, they've had a lot of help doing from others. I find your conclusions unwarranted.

I think you'd have the beginnings of a fair argument if we both agreed to entirely ignore the mountain of obvious evidence pointing at who has held & wielded that money, power & influence over the last 50 years.

As far as discrimination goes, I'd argue that Boomers aren't being discriminated against because of their age in any way. They aren't being judged as being inferior because they are old, nor have they ever been denied any kind of services or rights that other groups enjoy (quite the opposite, in fact). They are being judged negatively for deliberately and systematically hoarding power and resources at the cost of two entire generations. Trying to paint that as analogous to racism is a painfully long stretch.

[PilotMan]

Boomers swallowed the silent generation, much the same as the combination of Millennials will swallow X. Their rise to power began with the protests over being forced to go to war. This was after they had endured the grandeur and rise of the middle class in the post war, very prosperous 50's, and early 60's.



The revolts were their first attempt at taking power, and their sheer size coming to voting power did indeed drive the changes that we saw in the 60's regarding Civil Rights etc. They used power to create wealth for themselves in their "middle age" yuppie, greed 80's that saw the highest divorce rates, that they certainly didn't see.


Clinton became the poster child for everything Boomer as the first Boomer president. Aside from Obama (X) every president and a large portion of DC leadership are Boomers. They have effectively controlled the US, seeing that they are "taken care of" from every possible advantage that they could gift themselves. With the expansion of home ownership, they saw to it, that the interest on those loans was free from taxes (among other tax cuts or credits designed to help them along the way). They have effectively made sure that SS will last until 2030, where guess what, the last Boomer will turn 65! Shocker. The trump tax cuts expire when? 2030! Notice how any changes made these days technically 'grandfather' certain groups in?



Once they are out of power, all this debt, all this will be on every generation after them, and they won't care anymore. Having gone from having everything as kids, to having expanded everything in their favor all along the way, while taking from generations before and after (Pensions anyone?)

So no, I don't have a lot of respect for the leadership that helped to put that in place. It's why having 3, 70+ candidates at the front again just, plain, blows.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Late GenX'er actually, I don't have a dog in this specific fight.

That's really not how that works, which makes it even more hilarious to me |(not with you specifically, but with all the memes and comments about how Gen X'ers are immune to that, when its entirely about attitude/state of mind and not age/generation).

[cuervo72]

Eh, the Silent Generation isn't totally innocent here, nor are they exactly out of the picture. Mitch McConnell is not a boomer. Bernie (he and McConnell are 2 of 15 senators from the SG) and Biden - not Boomers. Rupert Murdoch? SG. Koch brothers, same. Sheldon Adelson? 86. The leader of AARP who popped off about having all the money? SG. (Anecdotal, but my boomer parents have a shit-ton less money than my Silent in-laws.) They still have considerable money and power.

[thesloppy]

I will admit to pretty much lumping the silent generation (or at least the last half of it?) in with the boomers. As the boomer name suggests, the accepted definitions are practically defined by World War II, whereas my personal divide is probably based more around popular cultural, for better or worse.

[Edward64]

I think there are 2 undertones in the posts I've read re: Boomers.

1. Boomers and how they have messed up later generations with their arguably misuse of economic and political leverage
   
2. Boomers and how they treat Millennials (and vice-versa)

For #1, condemnation of the Boomer generation as a whole doesn't make sense to me.

Can't blame really mom or grandma when they didn't have the economic and (for the most part) political power. Can't really blame Grandpa Juan or Auntie Li either.

So you are left with 40-50% of the Boomers to blame and of that how many of those are really guilty of screwing up your life?

Instead, I think many here mean to condemn the white, male and primarily Republican Boomers (and Silent) who held/hold the economic and political power.


For #2, same as its always been and does include mom, grandma, grandpa Juan and Auntie Li. Regardless of race, religion, country of origin etc. there's always this generational divide. Its more publicized, out there now because of social media

[thesloppy]

Sure, every single member of the boomer generation did not personally and deliberately manipulate the economic/political system for their own gain, nor did every single member of the boomer generation consistently vote to keep those structures in place.

That said, the basic concepts of business and political demography that you and Brian are arguing against are well established & widely accepted, and shouldn't have to be completely re-defined as any part of this argument.

[molson]

Has anyone ever declined a job or other opportunity to be fair to the next generation? Is that a thing that will be a moral value going forward?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by molson

Has anyone ever declined a job or other opportunity to be fair to the next generation? Is that a thing that will be a moral value going forward?

Certainly not. In this case I think the issue is that the generation in control of provisioning those jobs & opportunities, and the relative quantity & quality thereof, has remained static. If the boomer generation had followed the population curve of the surrounding generations an exchange of influence would have been unavoidable.

I will definitely agree/concede that the population hiccup that gave the boomers all of their influence & privilege was certainly not the result of any collective or individual choice or fault, for whatever that is worth. And as much as I can prattle on complaining about the population curve, the Boomers do also deserve some credit for not having kids at the rate of their parents & largely resetting the curve...that *was* a collective choice, and though it will cost my generation in influence it will likely serve all the following generations for the better.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Sure, every single member of the boomer generation did not personally and deliberately manipulate the economic/political system for their own gain, nor did every single member of the boomer generation consistently vote to keep those structures in place.

Okay. So your beef isn't just about "white, male and primarily Republican Boomers", it really is about "blaming" the Boomer Generation as a whole for what I consider as faults of the few (e.g 10%).

Originally Posted by thesloppy

That said, the basic concepts of business and political demography that you and Brian are arguing against are well established & widely accepted, and shouldn't have to be completely re-defined as any part of this argument.

I don't really know what "are well established & widely accepted". Can you provide a link for me to read your POV?

[albionmoonlight]

75% of this board is Gen X? I had no idea there were so many of us.

It's gonna be hilarious to watch the questions on this board slowly morph from queries about video games and big screen TVs into discussions about the best brands of dentures and artificial hips.

[Edward64]

... and what's up with the 5 that voted Trout anyway? We may now be in an eternal tie between Boomers and Millennials

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Gen X and fuck I hate that movie

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Okay. So your beef isn't just about "white, male and primarily Republican Boomers", it really is about "blaming" the Boomer Generation as a whole for what I consider as faults of the few (e.g 10%).

Not really. My point was that when we are talking about judging the collective influence of a demographic of course we aren't talking about each particular individual. Certainly the folks in power and making influential decisions are only a tiny fraction of the generation in question, and of course I don't feel like Hispanic grandmothers are personally oppressing me, I'm just not sure why those clarifications are necessary.

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't really know what "are well established & widely accepted". Can you provide a link for me to read your POV?

Demographics Definition

How Demographics Drive The Economy

Boomer Effect (Baby Boomer Factor) Definition

Baby Boomer Age Wave Theory Definition

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Demographics Definition

How Demographics Drive The Economy

Boomer Effect (Baby Boomer Factor) Definition

Baby Boomer Age Wave Theory Definition

Thanks, did look thru them and it confirms the definition of boomers and some characteristics. Didn't see anything re:

They are being judged negatively for deliberately and systematically hoarding power and resources at the cost of two entire generations.

I know some about the "wave theory", maybe not in those terms but its pretty logical to assume. But again, nothing about how Boomers and older screwed up the Millennials or the world.

Dychtwald's theory suggested that due to the size and tendencies of the baby-boom generation, this population had the power to transform consumer trends and life stages. Significant market shifts across a range of industries have been associated with the age wave, including the impact on the manufacture and sales of suburban homes, fast food, gym equipment, toys, minivans, and SUVs.

Noting the impact of the baby boomers, Dychtwald claimed that their aging will likely result in a shift in consumer activity from youth-focused products toward products and services catering to the old. Eventually, he warned that the age wave will put a strain on the economy as the baby boomers draw a pension and experience health issues.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Thanks, did look thru them and it confirms the definition of boomers and some characteristics. Didn't see anything re:



I know some about the "wave theory", maybe not in those terms but its pretty logical to assume. But again, nothing about how Boomers and older screwed up the Millennials or the world.

See PilotMan's post above. The slow disintegration of Social Security, Pensions, home ownership and any kind of retirement is hardly underground news. Some manner of conflict between the generations & transitions is surely constant and inevitable, as you have suggested, but the boomers' parents left them a world of financial opportunity & relative privilege, and they did not secure the same for the generations that followed. Much like the concept of "White Privilege" that kind of collective & situational privilege is hard to dissect on an entirely granular, individual level....millions of boomers of color who fought through the civil rights movement, vietnam veterans, and/or women of that era would probably bristle at the idea of any of today's relatively young adults labeling them as any kind of privileged individual, but in the (narrow but crucial) terms of something like collective financial security it certainly applies.

"Roughly 80% of S&P 500 companies have baby boomer CEOs and approximately one-third of that group is 65 or older.....Eighty percent of the U.S. House of Representatives and 86% of the Senate are aged 50 or older (this also includes the approximately 15-20% who are older than the baby boomers). In the White House, baby boomers have served as president since 1993, when Bill Clinton took office":

What Would a Transfer of Power from Baby Boomers to Generation X Look Like?

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Edward64

... and what's up with the 5 that voted Trout anyway? We may now be in an eternal tie between Boomers and Millennials

I went with trout option because generally I don't like generalizations, hence, I usually refuse to call myself a whatsoever.

Initially I thought the Netherlands had a similar population pyramid, they are similar, but on further look there are different peaks. In the Netherlands the largest peaks is at 1964 and 1969 (and around them), in the USA the big peak is at 1990-1994. Cultures obviously vary as well, although the arrival of internet has made the cultures slightly more similar than they already were.

In the end, I had no other option than abstaining, the quoted Wikipedia article disqualified me from being the target audience.

[Ryche]

Age by Year Visualization

So many boomers

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I went with trout option because generally I don't like generalizations, hence, I usually refuse to call myself a whatsoever.

Initially I thought the Netherlands had a similar population pyramid, they are similar, but on further look there are different peaks. In the Netherlands the largest peaks is at 1964 and 1969 (and around them), in the USA the big peak is at 1990-1994. Cultures obviously vary as well, although the arrival of internet has made the cultures slightly more similar than they already were.

In the end, I had no other option than abstaining, the quoted Wikipedia article disqualified me from being the target audience.

Is there a similar Boomer vs Millennials dynamic going on in Netherlands?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Yeah, for most of my life pop culture suggested that the boomer generation was characterized by Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda' in Easy Rider but history has suggested that maybe the hicks with the shotguns were the actual representatives of boomer culture.

Or they turned into the hicks? At least I think that's what happened to my mom, haha!

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Looked up the originator of the saying, he was not a Boomer but part of the Silent Generation.

Jack Weinberg - Wikipedia

Very interesting. Never really knew the story behind the saying. In context it totally makes sense on why he said it. Out of context, I can see why it may have become some sort of rallying cry for the peace movement.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Boomer, barely (1963) but I don't really relate to the stereotype of my generation at all. And though Millennial's are sometimes annoying in their zeal, I appreciate the fact that they are much more involved in their world at a young age than my generation was. As a while I think I relate much better to Gen X than any other which makes sense being on the cusp.

Wait...hold up a sec now...1963? Man I would have bet, good hard earned, cold American dollar bills and said no earlier than 1969.