Classic TV Sitcoms - Mount Rushmost - Construction Completed

[Solecismic]

The classic TV thread had me thinking. What if we could assemble a Mount Rushmore of Sitcoms?

How would we select four? Would we value longevity, quality, ratings? How do we evaluate quality? How do we factor that into the discussion? Do we value nostalgia? Do we include a bias for pioneering shows or really old shows?

I'm guessing a fair Mount Rushmore for Sitcoms might include M*A*S*H, Cheers, Seinfeld, All in the Family, maybe The Cosby Show (if the off-camera behavior of the lead actor/show creator is ignored), maybe some discussion of early classics like I Love Lucy or high-quality shows like The Mary Tyler Moore Show that didn't reach as many households.

There's some value in an exercise that picks only four, but with hundreds of sitcoms to choose from, picking just four might be too frustrating.

Instead, I'd like to pick a Mount Rushmore with room for 30 shows. Call it Mount Rushmost.

To be eligible, a show must have at least 50 episodes which aired on the major broadcast networks and it must have appeared in the Nielsen top 30 (by total households) at least once. There is a one-time exception for the 1950s which I'll explain if we reach the '50s. If a show has 97 or more episodes (you'll know why I picked 97 when we do the 1990s), then the Nielsen top-30 restriction doesn't apply. The show must have stopped airing original episodes by mid-2006 (reunions don't count). Only 30-minute sitcoms are included. Variety shows will not be included. Where the difference is unclear (primarily the '50s), I'll try and make a fair assessment. A laugh track or a live studio audience is not a requirement.

Discussion will be divided by decade. Shows will be assigned to a decade based on the midpoint, by season, of when they aired original episodes. In case of a tie, the debut decade takes precedence. I'll make one exception for the '90s where the midpoint was 2000 because it was a major show and it makes little sense to include the '00s in this exercise.

After the discussion, we'll vote, and the top X shows for the decade will be placed on our Mount Rushmost. The X value will be chosen by factoring what I'll call the replacement level for shows in a decade. The replacement level is 80% of the households watching the 30th-rated show over an entire decade.

This gives us four shows for the '50s, six for the '60s and '90s, and seven for the '70s and '80s. For those into the details, the current replacement level (2014-15 season) is 6.7 million households. It dropped below 10 million with the 1991-92 season. It peaked at 12.2 million in the 1979-80 season. It first reached 10 million in 1972-73 and it first reached 7 million in 1955-56.

I've tried to handle some of the quantitative aspects of the discussion. I've taken the Nielsen ratings for the top 30 shows of each season and tried to assign some statistics to each sitcom. I don't know why I have all these silly spreadsheets lying around, but I do.

The basic stats I'll give for each sitcom are total episodes, estimated total number of household impressions, average households and average households during its peak season. If a show did not place in the top 30 for a season, I use the replacement level for that season instead of its actual rating (some years it's easy to find the actual rating, others it's nearly impossible, so I wanted to be consistent).

I won't give other information about the show. You can add information like historical significance or Emmy wins in the discussion. Or maybe the ratings themselves are suspect because of a powerful lead-in.

I'll list what shows I think qualify. If you want to nominate others, please feel free. But assume I won't miss the top shows. If one isn't included, it was almost certainly assigned to another decade.

For each decade, we'll have a few days of discussion and then a few days of voting. You'll post your vote to the item in the form of a top X. You can vote early and hope that influences other votes, or you can vote late and try and vote strategically. However, you're encouraged to vote for the shows you think deserve inclusion - even if the expected top vote-getter seems safe.

Hopefully this seems like an entertaining exercise.

[Solecismic]

We'll start with the 1970s. This is the decade when viewership peaked and families still watched shows together. Even as late as the '70s, remote controls weren't everywhere and you often watched an entire slate of shows on one network.

We'll pick seven shows from the '70s. I'll start by nominating 25 shows, in an order I've assigned them based on ratings and total viewership (but not quality). You can nominate others, but some major shows (Three's Company, Taxi, Alice, Diff'rent Strokes, Mork and Mindy, WKRP) would already be in this list if they were considered '70s shows. It seems like several shows are right on that '70s/'80s cusp, which makes sense given that viewing peaked in 1979.

The initial nominees:

- M*A*S*H (1972-1983). 4.49b household impressions (256 episodes, 17.6m average households), 20.5m peak season.

- Happy Days (1974-1984). 4.26b household impressions (255 episodes, 16.7m average households), 22.9m peak season.

- All in the Family (1971-1979). 3.91b household impressions (210 episodes, 18.6m average households), 21.8m peak season.

- The Jeffersons (1975-1985). 3.95b household impressions (253 episodes, 15.6m average households), 19.1m peak season. Technically, the midpoint here is the '80s, but I made the distinction only by season (this was a mid-season replacement for 1974-75) and broke the tie by moving it back toward the debut year.

- Laverne and Shirley (1976-1983). 3.26b household impressions (178 episodes, 18.3m average households), 23.0m peak season.

- One Day at a Time (1975-1983). 3.39b household impressions (209 episodes, 16.2m average households), 17.9m peak season.

- Sanford and Son (1972-1977). 2.34b household impressions (135 episodes, 17.3m average households), 20.3m peak season.

- The Mary Tyler Moore Show (1970-1977). 2.43b household impressions (168 episodes, 14.4m average households), 16.4m peak season.

- Maude (1972-1978). 2.09b household impressions (141 episodes, 14.8m average), 17.4m peak season.

- Barney Miller (1974-1981). 2.24b household impressions (168 episodes, 13.3m average households), 16.8m peak season.

- Here's Lucy (1968-1974). 2.07b household impressions (144 episodes, 14.4m average households), 15.8m peak season.

- Good Times (1974-1979). 1.87b household impressions (133 episodes, 14.0m average households), 17.7m peak season.

- The Bob Newhart Show (1972-1978). 1.93b household impressions (142 episodes, 13.6m average households), 15.3m peak season.

- Rhoda (1974-1978). 1.60b household impressions (110 episodes, 14.6m average households), 18.0m peak season.

- Chico and the Man (1974-1977). 1.25b household impressions (88 episodes, 14.2m average households), 19.5m peak season.

- Welcome Back, Kotter (1975-1979). 1.37b household impressions (95 episodes, 14.4m average households), 16.2m peak season.

- Soap (1977-1980). 1.26b household impressions (85 episodes, 12.3m average households), 13.6m peak season.

- The Doris Day Show (1968-1973). 1.57b household impressions (128 episodes, 12.3m average households), 13.6m peak season.

- The Partridge Family (1970-1974). 1.21b household impressions (96 episodes, 12.6m average households), 14.1m peak season.

- What's Happening!! (1976-1979). 887m household impressions (65 episodes, 13.6m average households), 14.9m peak season.

- Room 222 (1969-1974). 1.16b household impressions (112 episodes, 10.4m average households), 12.3m peak season.

- The New Dick Van Dyke Show (1971-1974). 829m household impressions (72 episodes, 11.5m average households), 13.8m peak season.

- The Odd Couple (1970-1975). 1.16b household impressions (114 episodes, 10.2m average households), 11.0m peak season.

- The Brady Bunch (1969-1974). 1.15b household impressions (117 episodes, 9.9m average households), 10.6m peak season.

- The Bill Cosby Show (1969-1971). 596m household impressions (52 episodes, 11.5m average households), 13.5m peak season.



This is not a complete list of eligible shows. There are probably 2 or 3 shows that reached 100 episodes that aren't listed.

The numbers are meant as reference. The idea being that, on a raw level, the shows that reached more people were more likely to be influential. But inclusion in Mount Rushmost can and should also take other factors into account. That's why we'll have a discussion period for each decade.

Discussion is open until Midnight Saturday (late Friday night).

At the end of the discussion period, you'll be able to post your vote, which will consist of the seven shows you feel deserve inclusion in our Mount Rushmost.

[King of New York]

I'd nominate Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. I have no idea what its viewership was, but it's gained a cult following and it was certainly one of the odder TV series of the 1970s.

From the list of nominees, and using cultural impact+quality as a formula, I'd go with:

MASH
All in the Family
The Jeffersons
Good Times
Soap
The Mary Tyler Moore Show

(and Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman)

[Umbrella]

Listed in no particular order:

M*A*S*H - Not one of my personal favorites, but you can't deny its impact. The viewership for the final episode still remains the most watched non-Super Bowl event in history.

Happy Days - The show which gave us the phenomenon call The Fonz, and also "Jumping the Shark". Created two spinoffs which were both extremely successful in their own right. The later episodes were terrible, but the first few seasons are outstanding.

All in the Family - This is the show that changed the game by broaching subjects previously declared taboo. Had three successful spinoffs.

Mary Tyler Moore Show - I had to put this on my list solely for the Chuckles the Clown episode, which is in my personal top 10 funniest sitcom episodes. All star cast.

Barney Miller - This will probably be the only vote it gets, but it's one of my favorite shows. Of all the cop shows ever made, and there's been a ton, Barney Miller consistently is chosen as the most realistic by other cops. Plus, it has the coolest theme song ever. And for me, it is one of the most quotable shows. If you can find the brownie episode, it is still hilarious today.

Brady Bunch - Not a great show, but find someone that doesn't know the theme song, and can name every character.

The Jeffersons - It was a tough call between this and Bob Newhart for the last spot. But I have to give a slight edge to George and Weezy.

[Warhammer]

MASH
Happy Days
The Bob Newhart Show
Soap
The Mary Tyler Moore Show
All in the Family
Barney Miller

[Suicane75]

I've never seen Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, but I would like to nominate Fernwood Tonight

[Suicane75]

It's occurring to me, going down the list, that there aren't a lot of shows that resonated to me from this era. Maybe it's because I was born in 75, but I did/have watched almost all of these shows in pretty good numbers, and really only a couple of them stand out to me, and I know they aren't the best ones, their just the ones I have good memories of watching. What's Happening for instance.

[Solecismic]

Some Emmy facts for these shows.

Best Series Nominations:

M*A*S*H 11 (1 win), All in the Family 9 (4 wins), The Mary Tyler Moore Show 7 (3 wins), Barney Miller 7 (1 win), Soap 3, The Odd Couple 3, Sanford and Son 2, Maude 1, The Bob Newhart Show 1, Rhoda 1, Room 222 1, Welcome Back, Kotter 1, The Bill Cosby Show 1.

Best Actor/Actress/Supporting Nominations:

M*A*S*H 42 (6 wins), The Mary Tyler Moore Show 32 (14 wins), All in the Family 26 (10 wins), Barney Miller 15, The Jeffersons 13 (1 win), Rhoda 11 (2 wins), The Odd Couple 10 (3 wins), Soap 9 (2 wins), Happy Days 6, Room 222 5 (2 wins), Maude 5 (1 win), Chico and the Man 3 (1 win), Sanford and Son 3, The Bob Newhart Show 2, One Day at a Time 1, The Bill Cosby Show 1, Here's Lucy 1, Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman 1 (1 win).

The Mary Hartman/Fernwood question is interesting. Fernwood Tonight doesn't qualify because it didn't have enough episodes. Mary Hartman did. It was syndicated, but broadcast in most major markets. It really belongs in its own category, but the Emmy win (for supporting actress Mary Kay Place) was for sitcom. So we can count votes for it, though I have no idea how many people saw it.

From my own perspective, All in the Family and M*A*S*H seem like shows that had both popularity and quality. M*A*S*H is also one of the longest-running shows of all time and third in all-time most first-run household views. I'd also add The Mary Tyler Moore Show as a must-have - the awards were constant throughout its entire run.

It gets a little harder after those three. Do you include Laverne and Shirley, which was thoroughly mediocre but immensely popular with a top-five all-time peak? Or should that peak be ignored because it spun off of Happy Days, also a fairly mediocre show but a pioneer in many ways?

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I've never seen Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, but I would like to nominate Fernwood Tonight

This. And later it went "national" and became America Tonight. Who could forget "cynodontia"? William W.D. Bud Prize

[thesloppy]

I'm kind of fascinated by Chico and the Man...mostly just by the fact that it completely disappeared from the cultural landscape. It got pretty impressive numbers above, but I literally can't remember seeing even a moment of it on my television. A little research reveals it barley made syndication, but just never really played beyond it's first run....reading about Prinz's suicide during the third season, and the show's themes of tenuous '70s race/class relations, it sounds like maybe it was a good thing it never re-appeared, but I still find it interesting how quickly it faded into the ether, relative to all the other shows of the time (some even with similarly sketchy themes of race and class).

[Suicane75]

I saw it, I wanna say 2002-2003 ish on some TV Land, Nick At Night type channel. But other than that, I never saw it in syndication or anywhere else.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I saw it, I wanna say 2002-2003 ish on some TV Land, Nick At Night type channel. But other than that, I never saw it in syndication or anywhere else.

I believe it did run briefly on TBS. It just didn't have much sustaining power (I believe mostly because of Prinz's suicide.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

(I believe mostly because of Prinz's suicide.)

I would agree with this.

A talented young guy with charisma to burn, gone in a blink like he was (he literally filmed an episode mere hours before his death), I was only about 10 years old when it happened but I recall it seeming like a very sad thing to consider. It made the show simply hard to watch, you didn't want to think about it.

They tried to continue the show for more than a full season after his death but ratings took a heavy dive and it ended after four years.

[Butter]

I remember Nick at Nite rerunning episodes of Fernwood Tonight. That was an amazing show.

I would toss my hat in for Barney Miller also. I don't know how you leave off MASH or Happy Days, but Happy Days later legacy is tarnished by letting the show go on too long.

I think round that out with Mary Tyler Moore, Odd Couple, and All in the Family, though that was never my favorite.

[albionmoonlight]

My seven:

M*A*S*H--Either this or The Simpsons gets my vote for the greatest comedy of all time.

All In The Family--One of the most influential shows in history.

The Jeffersons--A show with a rich, successful, somewhat unlikable black lead? This show had a lot of things going on.

The Bob Newhart Show--Groundbreaking in a lot of ways. A stand up comedian kind of bringing his act into a show where he plays a fictional character that's kind of like himself. Also, the chemistry between Bob and his wife was awesome. Also, the scene where he tried to order Chinese food while drunk (or high, I forget) was really really funny.

The Brady Bunch--I'm not the biggest fan, but this show probably has the most cultural resonance of any show on the list. I think that it has to be included.

Sanford and Son--Much like The Bob Newhart Show above, this was a great idea of taking a brilliant comedian and letting him be himself as much as possible. Also, the show brought two black men running their own successful business into people's living rooms every week.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show--I've seen very little of it. But whenever people make these lists, it is on it. So I will nod to the consensus here. I never saw Unitas play, but I'd also put him on my top QB list. Sort of that same thing here.

[Solecismic]

I remember watching Chico and the Man as a kid. The suicide was huge news, and since we were in an age when news came mainly from newspapers and networks, the idea that someone young and successful would kill himself was very upsetting. I don't think it was a great show, though.

Happy Days was innovative at first. But it quickly jumped the shark. Even before episode 91, which was the most inane thing ever on television (before Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie). Even as a little kid, it seemed lame. If the jump failed, he'd still crash outside of this tiny enclosure. And there was this strange insistence on the leather jacket over swim trunks. And finally, it was essentially a parody of his motorcycle stunt a couple of years earlier, which did advance the character significantly. The shark thing was worth -100 points. And the last few years were awful. The live audience would interrupt every time a character came onstage for the first time, and this was a big part of the show. So does the first three years and the success of two major spinoffs (neither of which were quality shows) outweigh a mountain of suck afterward. Since Winkler never gambled on baseball, it probably does. Happy Days is the Pete Rose of television history.

I'd lean toward The Jeffersons being an automatic. Not just for popularity and longevity, but in establishing the African American presence on television as less stereotypical. Isabel Sanford was a top-notch actress, and carried the show. Marla Gibbs was recognized for her comedic talent as well. It was a quality show.

One I struggle with is One Day at a Time. It tried to provide a realistic, edgy portrait of raising teenagers. It was more must-see as a kid. But it was never nominated for Best Comedy. Was it underrated or overrated?

I'm also considering Maude, Barney Miller, Bob Newhart, Rhoda and Soap.

[JonInMiddleGA]

From the nominees, my seven in no particular order

MASH
All In The Family
Sanford & Son
Mary Tyler Moore Show
Good Times
Bob Newhart Show
Barney Miller

[cuervo72]

IMO, Alice qualifies as a 70s show. Flo left in 1980, and I remember the show for her as much as anything.

I think my list is the same as Jon's, other than swapping The Jeffersons in for Good Times. (Or albion's, subbing Barney Miller for The Brady Bunch. Either way.)

Sorry, little Opie Cunningham.

(Also, were I TRO I'd nominate The Carol Burnett Show, but I'll stick to the definition of "sitcom.")

[BYU 14]

MASH
All In The Family
Happy Days
Mary Tyler Moore Show
Good Times
Barney Miller
The Jeffersons

[Suicane75]

Right now my list is short and will probably be filled out by "consensus goodness"

What's Happening, All In The Family, Fernwood Tonight, Soap, Brady Bunch are shoo ins for me. Other than that, there's not much I enjoy just sitting down and watching.

[Solecismic]

My Vote:

All in the Family
M*A*S*H
The Mary Tyler Moore Show
The Jeffersons
The Bob Newhart Show
Barney Miller
Happy Days (reluctantly)

Voting is open for the next few days. Then we'll move on to a different decade.

[Alf]

From an Euro perspective

M*A*S*H
Happy Days

never heard about the rest of the series mentionned.

[Suicane75]

My Final 7
-----------------------
What's Happening
All In The Family
Fernwood Tonight
Soap
Brady Bunch
The Mary Tyler Moore Show
The Bob Newhart Show

[flere-imsaho]

I barely watched any of those shows from the '70s, so I'll abstain for now, but...

Originally Posted by Alf

From an Euro perspective

Would we consider any sitcoms from, say, UK television which may have ended up on PBS? There are some, and Fawlty Towers springs to mind, that due to both their brevity (shorter "seasons") and quality, somewhat stand as "perfect" sitcoms.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

One of my favorites;

The Carol Burnett Show

Tim Conway is amazing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qqE_WmagjY

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

My seven:

M*A*S*H--Either this or The Simpsons gets my vote for the greatest comedy of all time.

All In The Family--One of the most influential shows in history.

The Jeffersons--A show with a rich, successful, somewhat unlikable black lead? This show had a lot of things going on.

The Bob Newhart Show--Groundbreaking in a lot of ways. A stand up comedian kind of bringing his act into a show where he plays a fictional character that's kind of like himself. Also, the chemistry between Bob and his wife was awesome. Also, the scene where he tried to order Chinese food while drunk (or high, I forget) was really really funny.

The Brady Bunch--I'm not the biggest fan, but this show probably has the most cultural resonance of any show on the list. I think that it has to be included.

Sanford and Son--Much like The Bob Newhart Show above, this was a great idea of taking a brilliant comedian and letting him be himself as much as possible. Also, the show brought two black men running their own successful business into people's living rooms every week.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show--I've seen very little of it. But whenever people make these lists, it is on it. So I will nod to the consensus here. I never saw Unitas play, but I'd also put him on my top QB list. Sort of that same thing here.

I'll take an order of this, but can I sub in Happy Days for Sanford and Son?

[kcchief19]

M*A*S*H: A no-brainer Hall of Famer. Not perfect, and its decline is easily marked upon viewing any episode. A Trapper episode is better than BJ, a Frank is better than a Winchester. Radar episodes are better than non-Radar episodes. And the shark jumped about the time BJ grew a mustache. Most shows are just finding their feet by season four, yet M*A*S*H was among the best ever already by that time.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show: At a time when it did not seem that people took TV seriously yet and still aired crap, MTMS was nearly perfect. All-star cast that still influences today, great writing and fearless.

The Bob Newhart Show: Fits into the category of being "too smart" for the audience. Much better than its ratings indicate. In many ways is better than "Newhart" in the '80s. Bob Newhart is an acquired taste, but this was him near his peak with an eccentrically entertaining supporting cast.

The Odd Couple: This concept has been tried many times, and on TV it's never been done better than by Klugman and Randall. It's different than Matthau and Lemon, but just as entertaining.

Happy Days: Hard to deny the cultural phenomenon of Happy Days and The Fonz. Struggled to find itself in its first season; I secretly hoped we'd find Chuck Cunningham on the island in "Lost." At its best it was very good and something for the entire family. Lots of spinoffs, for good and bad.

The Jeffersons: Almost the opposite of "All in the Family," and I mean that in a good way. At a time when I feel some portrayals of African-Americans on TV still played into stereotypes, "The Jeffersons" did not. I give it more credit for its cultural impact and individual performances, even though it wasn't always among my favorites.

Barney Miller: Along with "Bob Newhart," a dry show without a lot of flash but played for the big laughs. Another great cast with smart writing. Without "Barney Miller," you don't get "Night Court," which is definitely going to be on my '80s list.

A contrarian viewpoint: I will be the dolt who cock blocks "All in the Family" from a unanimous selection. I found the show awful as a kid and have zero nostalgia for it now. I get that for Northeast Liberals and Hollywood Elites it was an ironic portrayal of a bigot meant to show empowerment to '50s housewives, hippies and single moms. But where I grew up in the buckle of the Bible Belt, Archie Bunker wasn't an anti-hero; he was a hero. He was telling his idiotic wife to stifle it. He was trying to keep that hippie Mike away from his daughter. He was always telling it like it is to keep the "Eye-talians," "Jews" and the "negroes" in line. He was always being kept down by The Man in a system stacked against white men. For every East Coast bigot who saw themselves in Archie and reformed, and unapologetic racist in the Ozarks saw themselves in Archie and said, "Right on!"

I hated the show as a kid, because I saw nothing redeeming or entertaining in almost any of the characters. My friends liked it for all the wrong reasons. Archie was an ass. Mike Stivic was a jerk in Rob Reiner's worst career performance. Sally Struthers is the most annoying actress on TV in history. The only worthy performance was turned in by Jean Stapleton, and hopefully her portrayal convinced women that it wasn't okay to stay in an emotionally abusive relationship with a jackass.

I will say that the show developed genuinely fantastic role players, led by Sherman Hemsley. And as bad as "All in the Family" was, it was so much better than "Archie Bunker's Place" and "Gloria."

[Solecismic]

I like your evisceration of All in the Family. And while I watched some episodes when I was young, it wasn't "must-see" like many of the others. At that age, that would have been determined by my parents, who grew up in New York and New Jersey and were die-hard liberals. It's true that these were unpleasant characters. In that sense, it was the Seinfeld of its generation. And the acting, unlike Seinfeld, was all top-notch in the Broadway sense. A little hammy, but that's Broadway. It was the show that essentially brought the situation into sitcom, that allowed people to see it as more than the slapstick of Lucille Ball.

The one show I struggled in leaving off my list was Rhoda. I did so because Rhoda and Phyllis (too short to be considered) were continuations of Mary Tyler Moore in different directions - splitting and spinning off. Both shows were excellent in terms of acting quality and writing. Why, then, vote for both The Jeffersons and All in the Family? Because I think there was enough ground-breaking in All in the Family to support two different HoF-level worlds.

One question I'll ask when this vote is done is whether we want to go back to the 1960s and 1950s. I don't think any of us watched those shows first-run. And it was a different form before All in the Family. There were underrated shows with some edge like Dobie Gillis, but even that doesn't really hold up that well. You have to recognize Lucy, of course, and The Honeymooners gets the publicity (and the exception for too short a run), but I wonder if all the deciding was done long ago.

The '80s and '90s will be more fun because that's when most of us grew up and there's more to choose from.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

A contrarian viewpoint: I will be the dolt who cock blocks "All in the Family" from a unanimous selection. I found the show awful as a kid and have zero nostalgia for it now. I get that for Northeast Liberals and Hollywood Elites it was an ironic portrayal of a bigot meant to show empowerment to '50s housewives, hippies and single moms. But where I grew up in the buckle of the Bible Belt, Archie Bunker wasn't an anti-hero; he was a hero. He was telling his idiotic wife to stifle it. He was trying to keep that hippie Mike away from his daughter. He was always telling it like it is to keep the "Eye-talians," "Jews" and the "negroes" in line. He was always being kept down by The Man in a system stacked against white men. For every East Coast bigot who saw themselves in Archie and reformed, and unapologetic racist in the Ozarks saw themselves in Archie and said, "Right on!"

I think I might be inclined to be contrarian about your contrarianism ... but not for the reason some wags would expect.

I think part of the greatness of AITF was because it was still funny virtually across the board despite Lear's liberal agenda. Those of us who certainly appreciated some of Archie's character flaws as something beyond that, we also saw the humor inherent to them. Likewise, we easily found the humor in the moments where he was completely flummoxed. And the appreciation of that didn't vary much depending upon whether we thought Archie was right or wrong, funny was (and is) funny. Sometimes it's as simple as that. Your take almost sounds as if you thought those viewers believed they were watching a documentary or something, cheering only when he was on the right side of something, that's certainly never something I ran across with the show & I didn't exactly grow up in a northeastern liberal environment.

Mike's character was a jerk but it's almost certainly Reiner's best work in front of a camera. He's not supposed to be entirely perfect, it was supposed to be over the top at times.

Struthers, yeah, she was awful. There's really not much redemption possible for that. Weak character, poorly played.

[thesloppy]

I really never enjoyed AITF, simply because I never found it funny. It kind of serves to highlight my struggles with ranking shows based on objective success versus some other subjective metric of quality. I feel the same way about MASH. I can fully understand why either belongs on a list of greatest TV sitcoms, I just wouldn't put them on a list of TV sitcoms I most enjoyed, regardless of era.

I guess my list would be:

The Bob Newhart Show
Happy Days
Good Times
The Jeffersons
The Brady Bunch
The Odd Couple
Soap

...but I'm still not entirely sure what I based it on.

[Suicane75]

I agree with Johns take on AITF. I'd personally like to do 60's & 50's just for the discussion, but if there's not a lot of support, there aint gonna be a lot of discussion, so yeah. Either way.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I like your evisceration of All in the Family. And while I watched some episodes when I was young, it wasn't "must-see" like many of the others. At that age, that would have been determined by my parents, who grew up in New York and New Jersey and were die-hard liberals. It's true that these were unpleasant characters. In that sense, it was the Seinfeld of its generation. And the acting, unlike Seinfeld, was all top-notch in the Broadway sense. A little hammy, but that's Broadway. It was the show that essentially brought the situation into sitcom, that allowed people to see it as more than the slapstick of Lucille Ball.

That's a very intriguing comparison. I'll take it another step and compare AITF and Archie Bunker to Curb Your Enthusiasm and Larry David. I think Curb Your Enthusiasm has incredibly funny moments, but I eventually found it completely unwatchable because it is so uncomfortable. I stop laughing and just cringing hoping Larry won't do what we know he's going to do.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think part of the greatness of AITF was because it was still funny virtually across the board despite Lear's liberal agenda. Those of us who certainly appreciated some of Archie's character flaws as something beyond that, we also saw the humor inherent to them. Likewise, we easily found the humor in the moments where he was completely flummoxed. And the appreciation of that didn't vary much depending upon whether we thought Archie was right or wrong, funny was (and is) funny. Sometimes it's as simple as that. Your take almost sounds as if you thought those viewers believed they were watching a documentary or something, cheering only when he was on the right side of something, that's certainly never something I ran across with the show & I didn't exactly grow up in a northeastern liberal environment.

For the unabashed Archie Bunkers I knew then and know now, they completely gloss over his bigotry and ill-informed worldview. They disconnect the tell-it-like-it-is Archie from the Archie who gets his comeuppance.

Do I know people who saw Archie and the show the way you did? Absolutely. I think people interpreted the show in many ways. I think some of those interpretations were good. Some people saw themselves in Archie and changed as a result. That is usually the viewpoint celebrated about the greatness of the show. What I think gets lost is that there are plenty of people who think Archie Bunker was a true American hero, mostly because they didn't get the joke.

As for Norman Lear, I've always been very conflicted about him. I think he's funny and a terrific writer. But so much of his work is filled with a self-righteousness than I find very oft-putting. I say this even though one of my favorite writers today is Aaron Sorkin, about whom I have no doubt some would say the same thing. But to me the difference is that Sorkin's characters, whether they are good or bad, left or right, etc., mostly have depth. Lear's characters are mostly caricatures and parodies.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Mike's character was a jerk but it's almost certainly Reiner's best work in front of a camera. He's not supposed to be entirely perfect, it was supposed to be over the top at times.

In retrospect, I would amend my criticism of Reiner's work in this regard -- his work on the show is bad, but he's not an actor. He's a brilliant director, an amazing writer and terribly mediocre actor. His work on AITF wasn't that bad; but I think a good actor could have done so much more.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Struthers, yeah, she was awful. There's really not much redemption possible for that. Weak character, poorly played.

This is why America is great. We can all come together around the awful of Sally Struthers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Do I know people who saw Archie and the show the way you did? Absolutely.

Cool, 'cause that felt totally discounted initially. I think people interpreted the show in many ways.

What I think gets lost is that there are plenty of people who think Archie Bunker was a true American hero, mostly because they didn't get the joke.

I'd take Archie for President -- hell, even as dictator for life -- over anything we've had in recent years ... but I still get the joke. Maybe I'm just a smaller percentage of the population than I think on that (though I'm usually pretty good at knowing / realistic about what percentile I fall in on most stuff).

As for Norman Lear, I've always been very conflicted about him. I think he's funny and a terrific writer. But so much of his work is filled with a self-righteousness than I find very oft-putting. I say this even though one of my favorite writers today is Aaron Sorkin, about whom I have no doubt some would say the same thing. But to me the difference is that Sorkin's characters, whether they are good or bad, left or right, etc., mostly have depth. Lear's characters are mostly caricatures and parodies.

I like the comparison of the two fwiw. The difference is that you found Sorkin more enjoyable because of the depth of character, whereas I find Lear more enjoyable because he's less heavy-handed.

This is why America is great. We can all come together around the awful of Sally Struthers.

Bruh, there were even beneficiaries of Christian Children's Fund that said she couldn't act

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

My seven:

M*A*S*H--Either this or The Simpsons gets my vote for the greatest comedy of all time.

All In The Family--One of the most influential shows in history.

The Jeffersons--A show with a rich, successful, somewhat unlikable black lead? This show had a lot of things going on.

The Bob Newhart Show--Groundbreaking in a lot of ways. A stand up comedian kind of bringing his act into a show where he plays a fictional character that's kind of like himself. Also, the chemistry between Bob and his wife was awesome. Also, the scene where he tried to order Chinese food while drunk (or high, I forget) was really really funny.

The Brady Bunch--I'm not the biggest fan, but this show probably has the most cultural resonance of any show on the list. I think that it has to be included.

Sanford and Son--Much like The Bob Newhart Show above, this was a great idea of taking a brilliant comedian and letting him be himself as much as possible. Also, the show brought two black men running their own successful business into people's living rooms every week.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show--I've seen very little of it. But whenever people make these lists, it is on it. So I will nod to the consensus here. I never saw Unitas play, but I'd also put him on my top QB list. Sort of that same thing here.

I like the Java Jive and it likes me



I have the full series of Bob Newhart Show on DVD.

[larrymcg421]

I based my votes similar to how the AFI does for movies. It's not about simply my 7 "favorites", but the 7 most notable sitcoms from the decade based on a variety of criteria (popularity, critical acclaim, cultural significance, etc.). When I focused on that consideration, it was actually pretty easy to pick the 7 I found most deserving...

MASH
All in the Family
The Mary Tyler Moore Show
The Jeffersons
Happy Days
The Brady Bunch
The Bob Newhart Show

[CrimsonFox]

I'm just going to go with things that I liked, things that turned me on, introduced me to new concepts and ways of presenting comedy (and dramady), that may have broken ground in some ways but I don't think that's as important. Sure there are cultural and political barriers blahblahblah and such...but I'm just going to list things that made me laugh and really did something for comedy. This is a first pass and I will probably futz with it. I will elaborate on my decisions later. There were other definitely left off because they weren't exactly sitcoms.

M*A*S*H
Frasier
Newsradio
The Office
Night Court
The Bob Newhart Show
Seinfeld

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I'm just going to go with things that I liked, things that turned me on, introduced me to new concepts and ways of presenting comedy (and dramady), that may have broken ground in some ways but I don't think that's as important. Sure there are cultural and political barriers blahblahblah and such...but I'm just going to list things that made me laugh and really did something for comedy. This is a first pass and I will probably futz with it. I will elaborate on my decisions later. There were other definitely left off because they weren't exactly sitcoms.

M*A*S*H
Frasier
Newsradio
The Office
Night Court
The Bob Newhart Show
Seinfeld

I was also thinking about the Fernwood Tonight case. While it doesn't look like it has the necessary support, I see no extraordinary reason to disallow voting just because it didn't meet the episode requirement. The only rule I will enforce is the decade rule. The midpoint of the series (using an algorithm I set up before looking at individual cases) must be in that decade. So, with this vote, when you review your choices, remember that we'll get to the other decades later.

[Grammaticus]

I'll go with:

Happy Days
The Brady Bunch
Sanford and Son
The Jeffersons
The Partridge Family
Welcome Back Kotter
What's Happening

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I was also thinking about the Fernwood Tonight case. While it doesn't look like it has the necessary support, I see no extraordinary reason to disallow voting just because it didn't meet the episode requirement. The only rule I will enforce is the decade rule. The midpoint of the series (using an algorithm I set up before looking at individual cases) must be in that decade. So, with this vote, when you review your choices, remember that we'll get to the other decades later.

heh yeah...i didn't realize this was a categorized thing. Will actually vote for realsies later. Didn't read the OP closely enough but was more discussing.

Anyway...will revote when I get motivated/get time.

[CrimsonFox]

Neat discussions...

I want to talk about the cusp sitcoms that were part of both the 70s and 80s

Three's Company for me is definitely a 70s kind of show. It's where it burst onto the scene and gained its massive following. It was also the Suzanne Somers years. Once she was fired, the show went downhill...or at least waned. I'm not saying she was the cusp or anything but she was better than her replacements. I liked DOn Knotts and RIchard Kline a lot and their heightened appearances worked but the ROpers and the Chrissy/Janet/Jack threesome made the show. So I think this one definitely belongs on people's lists.

Taxi - This one I'm torn. The show was brilliant. But it stayed brilliant.
First season was good then they weeded out a character or two and it got better. Then they got rid of druggie Jeff Conaway (who never really was strong in acting or comedy) and it got better. Characters like Jim and Latka got to do more and the addition of Carol Kane was even better. So more 80sish.

Mork and Mindy- Another I'd say was better in the early seasons for sure and once Jonathan Winters got on the show it ceased to really be about anything. Just two improv people continually riffing. That said Idon't think this show would make the cut in either decade.

Diffrent Strokes - It turned all of its stars into drug addicts. Not really surprised. It was pretty bad. I'd be drinking heavily to forget about it too.
Who cares...
(That's what I'm talkin' bout)


Alice - Kiss My Grits...
I watched it....religiously. I can't tell you why.
Again not deserving to be on any list.
This was more 70 than eitherof the previous ones as it started in 76 and lasted to 85. Again it clearly was better in early/mid seasons before Flo said her catchphrase EVERY episode and before TOmmy grew up.
I think its two main stars (Linda Lavin and Vic Tayback (from many Monkees episodes)) were the more interesting. But it just wasn't ever funny.

One Day At A Time - Probably better than the three previous ones. It had one of the best drop-by neighbors since Bill Daily on Newhart's show in Schneider.
Ran from 75-84. Did definitely break ground with the whole single mom raising 2 teenagers thing and handled heavy stuff moreso than just having gordon jump molest arnold's friend in a "very special episode"
Also one of the more singable themesongs. Catchy as hell....this is it...this is it...this is life, the one you get....so go and have a ball...

Definitely worthy...but not sure it can ride with the big boys.

I think Three Company and One Day of the above are the only ones worth considering...

Oh yeah...Fawlty Towers Definitely belongs as a mt rushmore.
It was so groundbreaking. WOrkplace comedy.
Having the main characters be extremely unlikable.
A Sitcom Farce.
So good in every way...

Only probably is brits only write 6 eps a season instead of cramming 100s of eps down our throat...


okay...I'll vote ...some day...

[CrimsonFox]

M*A*S*H - No other show has done so much for television. It defined the dramedy, realizing you don't have to do silly jokes all the time and be real into its 3rd season. It constantly changed and challenged the format of the "standard sitcom". Alda noted in the reunion show when complimented on his weird scripts, that he credited creator Larry Gelbart and the other writers/producers for opening the door to just change everything....several times within a season. And that includes format, point of view, types of stories done in the series...everything. It also wrote the book on how to transition when some of your major stars leave the show...and do it correctly. When McLean Stevenson, Larry Lanville, and Wayne Rogers all quit...they didn't replace them with equals...they sought totally different characters as they realized that and only that would give them fresh ideas too. Look at opposites like Are you being served? that tried to replace actors with an exact same (but obviously not as good) clone every time. They will always be compared to the original.

Laverne and Shirley – I original chose Happy Days here and funny I could only write a couple of sentences about it before mentioning how it inspired funnier shows after it. Then I realized. Happy Days echoed the glory days ala George Lucas’ American Graffiti and did a great job with that…but aside from Ralph and Marion it wasn’t all that funny. Laverne and Shirley however was funny out the wazoo. Penny Marshall was a bigger than life tough girl and had excellent comedy chops. The timing and physicality between the two were excellent. And what do you add to a couple of funny ladies? A couple of funny men…David L Lander and Michael McKean playing loser greasers with their ever excellent timing walking through doors saying “Hello!”….one word and comic genius…from this show I see things like Seinfeld emerge. Could there have been a Kramer without a Squiggy? It was also very blue collar making it something refreshing from the normal uptight family fair.

Bob Newhart Show - Pure genius. Excellent comedian at the height of his talent. His comedy was an odd one...one of reaction and total deadpan. Quite a difficult thing to accomplish as a star of a sitcom. So what better way to let him react, but make him a psychiatrist to weird people. And he of course was a bear with the network when they tried to edit down his pauses. "Don't you ****ing edit one ****ing beat!" he would say (paraphrased). COmedy greats lik Peter Bonerz, Marcia Wallace, Bill Daily, Suzanne Pleshette, Jack Riley, and Lorenzo Music (voice of garfield as carlton the doorman) all came from here.

Soap - Going with a favorite here. This is one I would have to sneakwatch. So funny. So much farce and goofiness. And no I didn't understand what was going on all the time...I just laughed whenever the dummy talked or whenever benson said something smart alecky, or whenever Burt made a hyper face, or whenever Jody said something smarmy, or whenever Jessica was ditzy or an alien beamed up Burt. You can really see serious things being made fun of with ease. Like a TV Airplane! ...so many stars paraded through this show...and went on to other things...too many to list and many shows came out of this. Robert Guillaime, Richard Mulligan, Billy Crystal, Ted Wass, Gordon Jump, Inga Swenson, Diana Conova, yadayada.

Three's Company - Soap was farce + satire + parody. Three's Company was straight farce. It had guys tripping over couches. Doors slamming. Innuendo. Misunderstanding. Overheard conversations. Sexual deviations of all sorts. This lasted into the 80s, but lets face it, the first few seasons are where it truly shown. Suzanne Somers may have been a big B and got her butt fired, but she had tons more comic timing than both of her replacements combined. This is noted by the fact that in later seasons there were no stories really devoted to #3 Cindy or Terri. Granted Don Knotts was there to make his googlyeyed swinger faces...but it was the middle aged Ropers that were a major element in the side stories. It was so 70s it hurts.

WKRP in Cincinnati - One of the best workplace comedies ever. Things like Newsradio and the Office owe a bit to this one. You can get away with comedy in the workplace and everybody knows it. There is comedy about eccentrics like Johnny and Jennifer. And there is comedy about extremely normal boring people like Les and Herb. Love all the music references in it too. Funny that they changed them in later releases because of rites. And it had the best closing credits ever.

The Jeffersons – I struggled with the seventh place finish but thinking back this show really held a great place. It did have another massive ensemble of comedy. Sherman Hemsley, Paul Benedict, and the ever mouthy Marla Gibbs. Racial jokes galore were the order of the day. If you wanted comedy of manners, watch something else. This was comedy of rudeness. I like characters that are good yet brash and sometimes unlikeable. Juxtapose class into it with race and you’ve got quite an original idea. Sometimes played for farce but mostly straight comedy.

[CrimsonFox]

just so I'm clear am I allowed to include WKRP and 3's company?
they are cusp shows but I think their major impact was in the 70s and the shows themselves reflect that time more than the 80s

[Suicane75]

Just wanted to say that I'm enjoying and appreciate the write ups. I wish I had gotten into a lot of these shows more than I did and it's interesting to see other perspectives.

Since WKRP had 3 of it's 5 seasons in the 80's I think it's going to count as an 80's show. I was surprised it's run was so short, but I have that same reaction on a lot of these shows. I think a lot of them seem like they were around longer than they were because back then two or three years of cultural relevance felt like a life time.

Someone mentioned the One Day At A Time theme song and this really was the era of the great theme song. Kotter, WKRP, One Day At A Time, all those theme songs were also top 40 hits I believe.

Thinking back, it's also pretty cool how a good number of these shows used it's opening, not just it's theme song, but also visually, to show you the world that the show existed in. You watch AITF, ODAAT, WKRP, Kotter, Good Times, I could go on and on, and you get a real vibe of the setting and the tone of the show. Compare that to the 80's when it really became about the cast montage.

Anyway, I love this thread and thanks to you Jim for getting it started.

[CrimsonFox]

Things I didn't put on the list:

All in the Family - Yeah I watched it. I was too young to get it. For me it ust had no comedy at all. Nothing for me to latch onto. Of course I didn't get the generational statement. Looking back ...nah not a ton of humor.

Happy Days - Just not funny enough. Both its spinoffs were.

What's Happening - Was a possibility. I watched the hell out of this show. It sure got mileage out of fat jokes. And "Mama...I can't breathe." The most urban show there was. Great cast. Very funny.

Barney Miller - Also watched this one. Very dry. Very respectable. Some great talent with Ron Glass and Steve Landesburg and Max Gail. If WKRP and 3's Company is out then this one is definitely in. This led to being able getting away with things like Frasier.

Brady Bunch/Partridge Family - Kid shows. I watched them and liked them a ton growing up. WHen I've gone back to watch them, they are so treacly saccharine I can't stand it. SUre I feel all retroey and actually shed a tear watching the intros on how good they were and the memories they bring back. But the shows themselves were just bad writing and kiddy show. Robert Reed would be on my side here.

One Day At A Time - I liked it. It also had a pre-kramer in Schneider who was my favorite character. And poor Richard Masur. He never could keep a job.
1st to die in IT too. Great theme song and made a star of Valerie Bertenelli.
I am close on this one.

Good Times - Holy crap this show sucked. It was not funny at all. Why else would its two big names leave? It wasn't good. And became worse when it focused on JImmie Walker...one of the least funny "comedians" in history.
The neighbor was the best character on the show I think. That's why they made her the star when the parents left. Really this was more an urban drama with a catchphrase.


Mary Tyler Moore - SHould be on my list I know. But I never watched it. Ever. Before my time and I never caught it in reruns because they never showed it.
All of its stars went on to get their own shows. I've seen those shows. None of them were that good. (Rhoda, Lou Grant, Love Boat, etc). Betty WHite and TEd KNight were probably the best ones.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

My Final 7
-----------------------
What's Happening
All In The Family
Fernwood Tonight
Soap
Brady Bunch
The Mary Tyler Moore Show
The Bob Newhart Show

Didn't really elaborate on my reasonings for these so I'll do a little hangover write up for them.

Being born in 75 really limited my first run scope on a lot of these shows obviously. My two shoo ins were What's Happening & The Brady Bunch, just because as a kid they were the ones that I found the funniest. By the time I started watching them in the early 80's they were already in syndication and running right around dinner time, it seemed constantly. "Yeah, it's the Doobie Brothers episode!" and "Yeah, It's the vacation arc!" were things I shouted probably far too often as a kid eating his Rice-A-Roni off of a living room tray in 1985.

Maybe it says something, maybe it doesn't, but thinking back on it, although it was obviously a black show, the thing that stood out to me about What's Happening was that it wasn't a show about being black, just being. Yeah, there were social statements made, but I think it has a real different vibe from the other "black" shows of the era. It's not a knock on shows like Sanford & Son, Good Time or The Jeffersons in terms of quality, because I can appreciate that they were probably better shows, critically speaking. But as a kid, What's Happening instilled in me that funny was funny, no matter what color, and I really think that spilled over into areas of how I thought more than I appreciated at the time. Funny is funny, bad is bad, people are people. It never tried to hit you over the head with a message. Anyhoo.

Brady Bunch is on my list just because I thought it was funnier than all the other sitcoms of the time and stands out more in my mind. I watched a ton of Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley etc, and I'm sure I was enjoying them at the time. Maybe Brady Bunch has a cultural place that increases it's significance in my mind unfairly, but it just stands out above the pack to me.

Soap I didn't even watch till the 90's. Comedy Central did a marathon one NYE I think it was, and I remember watching the first episode, then the 2nd, then the 3rd, and suddenly I was chain smoking, drinking chocolate milk and laughing my ass off for 24 hours straight until I was delirious. I was familiar with a lot of the cast and knew of the show, but had never watched it. Having grown up in with a single mom, grandmother and two Aunts and being inundated all my life with real Soap Operas gave me a great frame of reference for the absurdity, but the writing and performances were all just so good.

Pretty much the same thing goes for Fernwood Tonight. Didn't discover it till much later, but as someone who would watch Carson & Letterman religiously in the 80's, besides the snide and underground wit that Fernwood used, there was something almost comforting in the format of a small town talk show and the absurd cast of characters it employed. Even today I'd much rather put on an episode of Fernwood than watch a Kimmel or Fallon. It's nostalgic and groundbreaking all at once.

All In The Family makes my list for two reasons, resonance and rewatchability. I think it's funnier than most of the shows of the era which is something that has led me to more repeat viewings than other traditional sitcom on the list, and despite it's heavy handedness, there was a lot of realism in the Archie Bunker character. As a kid growing up in Jersey, there were so many occasions where someone I looked up to, and knew to be a quality person as far as family and morals went, would drop a "nigger, jew, spic, etc.." It really made you think about how you dealt with a situation like that, and how you formed your own ideology and weighed all the sides of a person. I think Carol O'Connor captures that dichotomy about as well as any actor possibly could.

I put Mary Tyler Moore and Bob Newhart more of out of thinking they deserve a spot, than knowing they do as I can't say I've watched either show too intently. But I'm very familiar with Bob Newharts body of work and I can't imagine it's not as good as people say. It's just nothing I've ever found or taken the time to really sit down and watch, though I plan to change that very soon.

Shows I left off: Jeffersons I enjoyed and is probably 8th on my list and depending on my mood it could easily replace The Brady Bunch, Helmsley is fantastic and it does have a great rewatchability that Brady Bunch really doesn't, but it just doesn't hold as big a spot in my heart or head.

Mash, was a show that I could just never get into as a kid cause I just didn't get the tone. It was assuredly too good for me to completely understand, but even now when I try and watch it, I find that I watch an episode or two and there's a hook that's missing. I know it's not Mash, it's me, but still.

Laverne & Shirley and Happy Days were both shows I watched a ton as a kid, but the repeat viewing experience is just not there. It has to mean something that of all the episodes of those shows I watched, I couldn't for the life of me tell you more than one or two moments from either show that stand out.

Barney Miller is another show that given it's pedigree I know I should love, but I just don't. I think if I really settled in and gave it 3 or 4 episodes I might start to get it, but I have just never had that inclination.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Just wanted to say that I'm enjoying and appreciate the write ups. I wish I had gotten into a lot of these shows more than I did and it's interesting to see other perspectives.

Since WKRP had 3 of it's 5 seasons in the 80's I think it's going to count as an 80's show. I was surprised it's run was so short, but I have that same reaction on a lot of these shows. I think a lot of them seem like they were around longer than they were because back then two or three years of cultural relevance felt like a life time.

Someone mentioned the One Day At A Time theme song and this really was the era of the great theme song. Kotter, WKRP, One Day At A Time, all those theme songs were also top 40 hits I believe.

Thinking back, it's also pretty cool how a good number of these shows used it's opening, not just it's theme song, but also visually, to show you the world that the show existed in. You watch AITF, ODAAT, WKRP, Kotter, Good Times, I could go on and on, and you get a real vibe of the setting and the tone of the show. Compare that to the 80's when it really became about the cast montage.

Anyway, I love this thread and thanks to you Jim for getting it started.

Fine. Barney Miller in for WKRP even tho my heart knows KRP belongs.
and I know darn well KRP isn't 80s enough to win the 80s.

What about 3's company then?

[CrimsonFox]

Really interesting mention of Fernwood. Great stuff. I didn't really ever see Fernwood until the 00's.

I'm like "When the f*** did THIS happen?!?"
Great prelude to Larry Sanders and Curb YOur Enthusiasm and things of that ilk

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

IMO, Alice qualifies as a 70s show. Flo left in 1980, and I remember the show for her as much as anything.

I think my list is the same as Jon's, other than swapping The Jeffersons in for Good Times. (Or albion's, subbing Barney Miller for The Brady Bunch. Either way.)

Sorry, little Opie Cunningham.

(Also, were I TRO I'd nominate The Carol Burnett Show, but I'll stick to the definition of "sitcom.")

who'd have thought?!? Opie Cunningham is a selfish bastard!

[CrimsonFox]

Suicane, brilliant analysis of what's happening...

growing up in a tiny midwestern town, it was like whoooooa....black people.
But you hit it on the nose. It's just damn funny and never really got into it at all except for the fact that it was really urban. I think Jeffersons was equally funny tho. Hemsley and Gibbs were just so good with a kind of DOn Rickles type of humor.

[frnk55]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Good Times - Holy crap this show sucked. It was not funny at all. Why else would its two big names leave? It wasn't good. And became worse when it focused on JImmie Walker...one of the least funny "comedians" in history.
The neighbor was the best character on the show I think. That's why they made her the star when the parents left. Really this was more an urban drama with a catchphrase.

I totally agree!! God that show was horrible.