WW LXV-- Enter the CUBICLE (GAME OVER! See Post #1625 For Final Game Post)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

In my defense, it was off the top of my head. Plus I was a little high.

FWIW, I totally trust you now!

I like your style. Maybe I should get a little high and then the correct defense will come to me.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Well, you knew Mau was innocent the whole time, so it was convenient that he came out with that reveal and everyone decided he had to be bad. Leaving your vote on Mau that day was pretty smart, because voting out two crew in a row would've looked bad like it does for me. I hate that voting out wolves successfully all game makes me look bad, but shoot, that's the way this game goes.

Wait, so now I voted for Mau with the thought that he'd fubar-up the next day? I like it, in addition to being a magnificient liar I'm apparently now omniscient and can see the future...

...if only either of those was actually the case.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Wait, so now I voted for Mau with the thought that he'd fubar-up the next day? I like it, in addition to being a magnificient liar I'm apparently now omniscient and can see the future...

...if only either of those was actually the case.

No, I never said you knew he was going to mess up. I'm just saying, it looked good for you that you'd voted for Mau and then he made that snafu, and everyone bandwagoned. Instead of voting for farrah when you knew she was a wolf and would probably get the landslide, you voted for an innocent who had everyone turned against him on the next day - so voting records for him were kind of irrelevant.

[claphamsa]

comeon guys! ur losing steam!!!!

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

comeon guys! ur losing steam!!!!

I was on the phone for an hour, what's your excuse John?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I was on the phone for an hour, what's your excuse John?

Placing a nice $6K order at work

[claphamsa]

6K? I just wrote a PO for 385 Mil!!! Oh yeah!

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

No, I never said you knew he was going to mess up. I'm just saying, it looked good for you that you'd voted for Mau and then he made that snafu, and everyone bandwagoned. Instead of voting for farrah when you knew she was a wolf and would probably get the landslide, you voted for an innocent who had everyone turned against him on the next day - so voting records for him were kind of irrelevant.

Not really, when you put it in the context that I'm not a wolf and have/had no idea whether he was a wolf.

I mean yeah, to cherry pick and say that *if I was a wolf* it worked out well, is all fine and good, but that's the irrelevant thing in this point of discussion, since it's not the case.

What's relevant is I'm the fish and had no idea at the time of my vote as to the allegences of either mau or farrah, I voted how I voted.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

6K? I just wrote a PO for 385 Mil!!! Oh yeah!

Yeah my customers don't quite have the military budgets you get to deal with. Mine is a winery on the central coast of California. I think you have a bit more spending power!

[claphamsa]

I find Jackalls arguments very enlightening. And here we come up with the conundrum.. do we belive the reveler or the counter revealer.... I tend to think the reveler is more believable, but... Ive seen lots of times that a wolf has faked, and not gotten caught (or at least lasted a round or 2). Im kinda in the lynch em both and well pick from the last 3 of us...

That being said I have not totally written off the possibility that they are both cougars, and when we kill jackall heinze will be like see I was right!

Im ready for a margarita!

[The Jackal]

The most important thing for the rest of the department right now is figuring out who the other cougar is. You know one of us is a cougar and one is a fish. You're going to find out which is which at 10, no matter where the vote falls. The prize I get for telling the truth will be death, and I promise I'll say I told you so when I die. As far as my life is concerned.. I gotta trust clap on this one maybe, you remember how well he did it that one game with Asa when he revealed as the town spy before Asa did - and in this scenario he fake revealed first again, except this time it was because of a mistake on my part, not because I wanted to delay revealing (for whatever silly reason he had).

[jeheinz72]

Wow people are actually buying the crap he's sellin'??!?!

I swear, I must just be terrible at these reveal/counter-reveal situations. No one believed me last game either (and fat lot of good that did us...)

[The Jackal]

There's still five and a half hours left but it doesn't look like I'm convincing anyone. Maybe some people haven't checked yet, but oh well. His fake reveal bought them a 2-1 advantage instead of 4-1, and it was well played.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Wow people are actually buying the crap he's sellin'??!?!

I swear, I must just be terrible at these reveal/counter-reveal situations. No one believed me last game either (and fat lot of good that did us...)

That's the point.. you aren't terrible. You're really, really good.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

The most important thing for the rest of the department right now is figuring out who the other cougar is. You know one of us is a cougar and one is a fish. You're going to find out which is which at 10, no matter where the vote falls. The prize I get for telling the truth will be death, and I promise I'll say I told you so when I die. As far as my life is concerned.. I gotta trust clap on this one maybe, you remember how well he did it that one game with Asa when he revealed as the town spy before Asa did - and in this scenario he fake revealed first again, except this time it was because of a mistake on my part, not because I wanted to delay revealing (for whatever silly reason he had).

Yeah but then it's a situation of damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't. In the last game here I was the Seer and someone fake revealed as the Seer before I got online and everyone believed them and it cost us a Major victory.

Damn straight I wasn't letting that happen here again in back-to-back games where someone jumps the gun on me with false information. Let's not forget, we got the same PM, so I knew you were aware that I was made privy to the fact you were a Cougar.

[The Jackal]

Yep, yep, it's whoever you believe. And generally that lies with the first person that revealed, so whoever manages to get it out first generally wins, even if they are lying. There has to be someone left that has suspected heinz over me. That's all it really takes, listen to your gut. I'm the fish.

[jeheinz72]

And an FYI to those that may pop in and not post. I'm Audi9000 in about an hour and a half, so if you have any questions, now is the time.

[The Jackal]

And maybe to show you that I'm telling the truth, I won't try and bring up any new information while heinz is offline. Anything I can think of I'll get out now, so he has a chance to respond. I'll answer questions all night if you have them, but no new posts. It really is up to your guts. Did he fake reveal or not? Do his posts sound like the genuine fish? Up to you guys.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Yeah my customers don't quite have the military budgets you get to deal with. Mine is a winery on the central coast of California. I think you have a bit more spending power!

not military.... WORSE!!!

[The Jackal]

One thing I do now, even if I am lynched here today, I've voted off four wolves, and well, that's pretty damn good for a department worker. I bet the boss might give me some nice severance pay.

[The Jackal]

now = know

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And maybe to show you that I'm telling the truth, I won't try and bring up any new information while heinz is offline. Anything I can think of I'll get out now, so he has a chance to respond. I'll answer questions all night if you have them, but no new posts. It really is up to your guts. Did he fake reveal or not? Do his posts sound like the genuine fish? Up to you guys.

why would you not bring up more info while hes not online? i mean its about winning!


Any ideas who the other old lady is?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And maybe to show you that I'm telling the truth, I won't try and bring up any new information while heinz is offline. Anything I can think of I'll get out now, so he has a chance to respond. I'll answer questions all night if you have them, but no new posts. It really is up to your guts. Did he fake reveal or not? Do his posts sound like the genuine fish? Up to you guys.

Well that's no fun, you wolves are supposed to try every underhanded trick in the book.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

why would you not bring up more info while hes not online? i mean its about winning!


Any ideas who the other old lady is?

I know it's about winning, but it would be just the thing to do to try and weasel some new information in when I know he can't respond. That'd be wolfish, desperate. I'm not desperate. By them finding me, we're going to nail a wolf, even if it's after killing me. That's much better odds than if we'd entered this day guessing randomly. We still wouldn't know who 2 of them are, now we know we're getting one. And as for the other person, like I said, it's likely someone who's voted for me already, possibly Schmidty because he's been relatively quiet (even though he had a recent excuse) and that's wolfish to stay under the radar. I think it's going to be hard to go off posting records because in this game, sometimes it's better to vote off a wolf and sometimes its better to vote off a villager, so that makes it really hard to judge votes. It could be you clapper, asking me questions to make it seem like you aren't his partner! But I don't really think it's you. I honestly have no idea, first gut feeling was schmidty, and my gut led me to fink, farrah, and bsak.

[The Jackal]

Heinz, pass, SnD, and one other person. That person is either going to win the game two days from now, or they'll get voted off. Should make for an exciting finish.

[jeheinz72]

I have to say Jackal, that if I didn't know you were full of it, this whole hat-in-your-hands, let's-focus-on-the-2nd-wolf tone might actually work on me.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I have to say Jackal, that if I didn't know you were full of it, this whole hat-in-your-hands, let's-focus-on-the-2nd-wolf tone might actually work on me.

That's the second or third time you've countered with just "you're a wolf, so that doesn't work". Well, maybe it will work on one person. All we need is one person to see you are lying and then maybe some others can look past the fake reveal and realize you're playing your role perfectly, knowing you will die by tomorrow, and giving your partner a much better chance of winning. It sucks for you that you found me, you haven't been on the radar since the first day, and now you're dead. You better just hope your partner hasnt been the focus of attention.

[The Jackal]

So maybe someone should make a list of everyone who heinz has voted for that is still alive, and anyone that's voted for heinz that is still alive. If you want to wait for me to do it, it won't be until a little later.

[path12]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Here it is guys, if it's just going to be me and heinz bickering back and forth all day I doubt much is going to get accomplished. A few of you have already voted for me and nightfall - what about the others? Does anyone who hasn't voted believe me? If we can just get a few votes on heinz maybe it'll be enough to convince some of those nightfallers that voted before I had a chance to respond that heinz is the one we should be going after here. I'm sure you could win with 2-1 remaining, but wouldn't 4-1 be much more comfortable?

I thought nightfall votes couldn't be changed. Clarification from Chief??

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

I thought nightfall votes couldn't be changed. Clarification from Chief??

If that's true, way to vote nightfall before I even had a chance to wake up, guys. :P

[path12]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm guessing it's one of the people who already voted for me, maybe Schmidty, he's been awful quiet this game (I know he had a recent excuse, but still, being that under the radar is very wolfish).

That's Schmidty's game. He's always quiet.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

That's Schmidty's game. He's always quiet.

Then that might take some suspicion off him. Dont know, won't be up to me.

[path12]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

You're too good heinz.

unvote heinz
vote jackal

I'll leave my vote on myself unless someone else comes around and starts voting for him. If you want to lynch me to find out for sure that I'm the fish, fine. It hurts you all, but I can't blame you for having trouble deciding which one of us is telling the truth. Heinz has always been, and will always be a magnificent liar.

Voting for yourself always makes me want to vote for you.

[path12]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Jackal: jeheinz72, fink (Crew), Farrah (Crew), Mau (dept.), bsak (Crew), Pass (Cougar landslide)

The Jackal, why again didn't you put a vote in the other day? If you were the fish, why hold back?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

The Jackal, why again didn't you put a vote in the other day? If you were the fish, why hold back?

The reason I stated back then is the reason I did that. I didn't feel strongly enough about either of them being wolves to cast the vote that made a tie, in case one was a temp. Instead I let the majority of people who had already voted and who knew their playing styles make the decision. I don't do that often, but I felt it would be in the best interest of the town. Obviously I made a mistake, as pass was a cougar, but that's really the reason I did it. I mean, why would a wolf do something so blatant.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

That's the second or third time you've countered with just "you're a wolf, so that doesn't work". Well, maybe it will work on one person. All we need is one person to see you are lying and then maybe some others can look past the fake reveal and realize you're playing your role perfectly, knowing you will die by tomorrow, and giving your partner a much better chance of winning. It sucks for you that you found me, you haven't been on the radar since the first day, and now you're dead. You better just hope your partner hasnt been the focus of attention.

Well what do you expect me to say?

I got a PM today that says your a wolf. The votes point to you being a wolf. Your argument consists of "he's lying" and what else? My voting points to being a department worker, which is what I am as the Fish.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well what do you expect me to say?

I got a PM today that says your a wolf. The votes point to you being a wolf. Your argument consists of "he's lying" and what else? My voting points to being a department worker, which is what I am as the Fish.

And I say my voting points to being in the department. I didn't know Farrah or pass were wolves, you knew both of them were, and you didn't vote for either of them for a reason. (I know everyone voted pass the next day, that's not the point)

[path12]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

That being said I have not totally written off the possibility that they are both cougars, and when we kill jackall heinze will be like see I was right!

That's interesting. I was wondering that too. So if we lynch one and they come up Cougar we'd assume the other was clean.

[path12]

Originally Posted by path12

That's interesting. I was wondering that too. So if we lynch one and they come up Cougar we'd assume the other was clean.

But thinking that over for another 10 seconds reminds me that unless someone else comes out and claims to be the fish, one of them pretty much has to be.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

That's interesting. I was wondering that too. So if we lynch one and they come up Cougar we'd assume the other was clean.

If you're worried about that then vote for me, because I'm the fish.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And I say my voting points to being in the department. I didn't know Farrah or pass were wolves, you knew both of them were, and you didn't vote for either of them for a reason. (I know everyone voted pass the next day, that's not the point)

Not really. Your votes point to a Cougar who first decimated the Crew and then B turned on Pass when there was no alternative.

I didn't vote for Farrah because I didn't know she was a wolf. IIRC the case against her was what, a post from Cronin the seer and ....? Anything?

Did I suspect Pass, sure, but I couldn't make heads or tails of him and Alan going back and forth. The vote for Pass against NTN seemed like a toss-up to me. Pass yesterday of course wasn't.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

But thinking that over for another 10 seconds reminds me that unless someone else comes out and claims to be the fish, one of them pretty much has to be.

oh right, and there's that.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Not really. Your votes point to a Cougar who first decimated the Crew and then B turned on Pass when there was no alternative.

I didn't vote for Farrah because I didn't know she was a wolf. IIRC the case against her was what, a post from Cronin the seer and ....? Anything?

Did I suspect Pass, sure, but I couldn't make heads or tails of him and Alan going back and forth. The vote for Pass against NTN seemed like a toss-up to me. Pass yesterday of course wasn't.

Yes, those are your excuses, but you didn't vote for them because you knew exactly who they were. It just comes back to which one of us they believe, and it seems your fake reveal and the worst case situation of a 2-1 is enough for people right now - plus if nightfall votes can't be changed then aren't there already 4 votes on me (aside from mine)?

[path12]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Then that might take some suspicion off him. Dont know, won't be up to me.

Nah, it doesn't take suspicion off him. But he's used to that.

[path12]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

The reason I stated back then is the reason I did that. I didn't feel strongly enough about either of them being wolves to cast the vote that made a tie, in case one was a temp. Instead I let the majority of people who had already voted and who knew their playing styles make the decision. I don't do that often, but I felt it would be in the best interest of the town. Obviously I made a mistake, as pass was a cougar, but that's really the reason I did it. I mean, why would a wolf do something so blatant.

That's what I wondered at the time. But if you were Cougar you would have been in a tough spot there, kill your partner or duck away from him at the end of the day. I could see why a no-vote might help there.

I'm not trying to pick on you here, but even though I haven't played a ton of games with Heinz I do have some inkling of his style, where I don't have a clue about yours....

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Yes, those are your excuses, but you didn't vote for them because you knew exactly who they were. It just comes back to which one of us they believe, and it seems your fake reveal and the worst case situation of a 2-1 is enough for people right now - plus if nightfall votes can't be changed then aren't there already 4 votes on me (aside from mine)?

But you're forgetting that fact that

A) As a Cougar, I'd want to lynch those crew members if given the chance

B) My schedule is such that I can't go back and switch even kinda-late in the Day. My vote is cast by 3 and it doesn't change. Each day I've posted shortly before leaving work, "cementing" my vote for where it is.

C) So then reasoning would be that if I was a Cougar, I'd if anything get an early vote in on the Crew member that even has a shot at going down. I think in at least one of those instances, if memory serves, I was somewhat surprised to see that person lynched at all, much less that they were a wolf (I think that was Farrah's day)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

That's what I wondered at the time. But if you were Cougar you would have been in a tough spot there, kill your partner or duck away from him at the end of the day. I could see why a no-vote might help there.

I'm not trying to pick on you here, but even though I haven't played a ton of games with Heinz I do have some inkling of his style, where I don't have a clue about yours....

Yes but if I was a cougar I think it would've been ridiculously stupid to not vote at all, as it clearly draws more attention to you, as it has to me.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Well, I'm up for answering any questions. I think we've pretty much exhausted the tidbits of information we could call each other out on, but if he finds something else I'll be ready for it. Everything we've called each other out on we've defended in turn. I was going to post my reveal last night but I needed to make sure I could, didn't want to ruin the game for everyone.

This confuses me...there have been a number of reveals in this game, both false and true, and there have been no ramifications. Why were you concerned that YOUR reveal would be different? Reveals are a part of the game, if there are going to be restrictions against a reveal, it would be laid out either in the rules or stated in your PM at the beginning of the game.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

This confuses me...there have been a number of reveals in this game, both false and true, and there have been no ramifications. Why were you concerned that YOUR reveal would be different? Reveals are a part of the game, if there are going to be restrictions against a reveal, it would be laid out either in the rules or stated in your PM at the beginning of the game.

Right, I wasn't sure because of my role, because the PM was very in character and it wasn't made clear whether or not it was supposed to be public information. Since it was involved with the wolves, and since the opposing factions couldn't tell who each other were, I needed to make sure I didn't need to get heinz caught without literally saying i knew he was a wolf. I hope that makes sense.

[jeheinz72]

He had to put that in there to give a valid reason for me beating him to the punch. Basically, we both got the same info in the PM, my guess he is waited to see how overt I was with nailing him to the wall, when it became clear I was extremely overt in handing his wolfiness over, he had to come up with some reason (better sounding than I was just first online) as to why I was claiming what I am.