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Old 12-07-2011, 08:29 AM   #1
JPhillips
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70 Years Ago...

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Old 12-07-2011, 10:19 AM   #2
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I was thinking about this yesterday when I was looking at my Pearl Harbor 60th Anniversary poster. Here's the pics if anyone missed it the last time I posted it.....

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - A day that will live in infamy

That was 10 years ago. I'm guessing that most of those guys that signed that poster are gone now. It's probably my favorite collectable out of all the things I have.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:31 AM   #3
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Dola

If you want to donate to the Memorial Fund, they have annual memberships starting for as little as $25. Also, they have a lot of 70th anniversary things available for sale, where all profits go to the Memorial Fund. Good way to support the memorial and pay tribute to those who lost their lives on that day.

USS Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor - Official Site

Saw that the day's events appear to heavily focus on the USS Oklahoma. They're dedicating a new marker in the Punchbowl National Cemetery (fantastic place to visit if you happen to go to Hawaii) along with a dedication of a USS Oklahoma memorial near where the battleship sank 70 years ago.

70th Anniversary of the Pearl Harbor Attack - 70th Anniversary Pearl Harbor Attack Commemoration

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Old 12-07-2011, 10:33 AM   #4
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double dola

Most of the ceremonies today will be show on the Pentagon Channel and also on several online outlets.

Pacific Historic Parks | Facebook

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Old 12-07-2011, 11:55 AM   #5
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Attack began exactly 70 years ago. 7:55 AM.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:45 PM   #6
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Had a teacher in high school that was a WW2 vet and Purple Heart recipient. Just wish I had known better and had the same appreciation for those vets like I do now, I definitely would have thanked him back then.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:47 PM   #7
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Had a teacher in high school that was a WW2 vet and Purple Heart recipient. Just wish I had known better and had the same appreciation for those vets like I do now, I definitely would have thanked him back then.

Same here, when I was a kid I didn't care about history classes, or any of this stuff, now I watch history channel every night and can't get enough. When I was a kid I never took the time to really talk to my grandfather about everything he went through in the war, looking back and that's my biggest regret.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:49 PM   #8
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Same here, when I was a kid I didn't care about history classes, or any of this stuff, now I watch history channel every night and can't get enough. When I was a kid I never took the time to really talk to my grandfather about everything he went through in the war, looking back and that's my biggest regret.

FWIW.....I have a grandfather who fought in the war that refuses to talk about it. He was a farm boy that got thrown into the Pacific theater. I think it was all a bit too much for him. Think he prefers to avoid thinking about it.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:35 AM   #9
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FWIW.....I have a grandfather who fought in the war that refuses to talk about it. He was a farm boy that got thrown into the Pacific theater. I think it was all a bit too much for him. Think he prefers to avoid thinking about it.

I don't think mine had any issues with it, I remember a couple stories, and I remember him sitting down talking to someone about it all for hours....but being a little kid I just went run around out side, play video games whatever. Which is what kids do- just looking back I wish I could sit in on that conversation.

I'm going to the D-Day museum in New Orleans again in a couple weeks, it's been 2 years since my last visit. I can't wait to go back
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:01 AM   #10
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Same here, when I was a kid I didn't care about history classes, or any of this stuff, now I watch history channel every night and can't get enough. When I was a kid I never took the time to really talk to my grandfather about everything he went through in the war, looking back and that's my biggest regret.

Yes! I love the History Channel. Especially anything the R. Lee Ermey in it. My baby sister is majoring in history in college, so it's always a blast to talk to her about that stuff. Yes, unfortunately, when we are younger we seem to miss out on things like that and connecting with our relatives more. I may have never have known your grandfather, but, I thank him for all that he did.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:02 AM   #11
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So last night, my 14 yr old daughter reads my FB post about it and goes...70 years ago? What happened....

I was honestly livid. I am an avid military history buff, that alone with me talking about things should have given a clue. But it rang out to me that not one of her history teachers made a comment or mention about it at all within the class, let alone no one in the school did.

My 11 year old answered her for me though, he knew...because he is as much as a military nut as me AND his US History teacher mentioned it.

I was shocked...and told the 14 yr old how upset I was over the fact that not one of her teachers mentioned it. Especially her history teachers. And she immediately got on the web and started reading more about Pearl Harbor...
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:06 PM   #12
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Really nice honor tomorrow for a guy who has managed to get many soldiers who were previously unknown identified........

Pearl Harbor survivor helps identify unknown dead | Fox News
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:11 PM   #13
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Amazing to think nuclear weaponry has been around for this long.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:32 AM   #14
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FWIW.....I have a grandfather who fought in the war that refuses to talk about it. He was a farm boy that got thrown into the Pacific theater. I think it was all a bit too much for him. Think he prefers to avoid thinking about it.

Mine too. The only thing he'd talk about is that when he got on a commercial airplane, he could tell you what kind of aircraft the pilot flew in the war just by how they landed (this was when most of your commercial airline pilots were war vets). He flew for years and then became an instructor later on because of a serious issue with his leg.

He did have a Japanese rifle in his office that no one knows how he got and no one ever asked.

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Old 12-07-2012, 05:29 AM   #15
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My father was drafted into WWII despite not being a citizen of the U.S. at the time (he was naturalized in Italy in '46.) He saw combat in Europe. His combat commendations indicate that he was either a part of D-Day or the very immediate follow-up. There's weren't specific dates on his discharge papers that I saw when he died, just something like:

COMBAT DUTY
Northern France, June to September, 1944
Belgium, September to October 1944
Germany, October 1944 to May 1945

Like others, he refused to talk about any of his combat experiences other than a general "Son, war is hell. That's all I want to say."
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:42 AM   #16
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My grandfather, who was part of the immediate aftermath of D-Day and the incursion into Germany, also refused to talk about it. The only thing he ever told me about it was that he'd seen the same propaganda films we watched in History of Film class and the only thing he ever told my mom about it was that it was bad, at least until shortly before he died, when he mentioned a little of what he did over there.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:48 AM   #17
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My Grandfather, who was a little nutty, used to tell us kids about how he killed Nazis while sharpening a stained bayonet.

If anyone has time I recommend they read some books on Japanese internment camps and everything that went on in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:14 AM   #18
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It's weird but that was a different generation back then. My grandfather not only did WWII but came back and carried on a normal life. He never missed a day of work in 40 years. Not exaggerating either. No matter what the weather was like, he'd walk the mile and a half to the train station in the morning and go to work. Only thing I heard he would bitch about is if a martini wasn't ready when he came in the door (which was at the same time every day).

He had a major circulation issues with his leg that they believe was the result of his flying. Not sure what the medical stuff behind it was, but he never blamed it on that despite doctors saying otherwise. He later lost his life due to issues with his leg that required surgery and it got badly infected.

Anyways, I was bitching the other day because my DVR has an issue sometimes where shows don't record properly. What colossal babies we've become.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:17 AM   #19
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One of my grandfathers took a bullet to the the neck from a German sniper and lived to tell about it. The other one served in Korea.

I believe this was the greatest American generation ever. I don't know if the current America could ever pull together like they did.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:23 AM   #20
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I believe this was the greatest American generation ever. I don't know if the current America could ever pull together like they did.

That's absolute bullshit.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:39 AM   #21
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That's absolute bullshit.

I disagree.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:42 AM   #22
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That's absolute bullshit.

I am not going to derail the thread. If you want to continue the discussion, create a separate thread.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:43 AM   #23
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I believe this was the greatest American generation ever. I don't know if the current America could ever pull together like they did.

I agree..
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:21 AM   #24
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I agree..

+1
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:28 AM   #25
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One of the most powerful experiences of my life was visiting the Pearl Harbor memorial. And I agree, a great generation, both here and England.

My grandfather fought for Great Britain and my Grandmother worked many long days in a munitions factory. They were both amazing people that I miss dearly.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:57 AM   #26
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Our generation can't comprehend the sacrifices made by our grandparents generation. It is splashed on the news everytime a us or ally copter goes down in the middle east( I have no issue with this). Imagine there being literally thousands of us casualties a day. Everyone knew someone and was effected on way or the other.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:24 AM   #27
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Our generation can't comprehend the sacrifices made by our grandparents generation. It is splashed on the news everytime a us or ally copter goes down in the middle east( I have no issue with this). Imagine there being literally thousands of us casualties a day. Everyone knew someone and was effected on way or the other.

It's just totally different what each group experienced. War has become such a different beast as time progresses, especially over the last 100 years. We have the WWI National Museum here in Kansas City. After going through that museum, it becomes pretty clear that WWII wasn't nearly as bad as WWI relatively speaking. Similarly, I'm sure the WWI guys thought what they were doing when compared to the Civil War was a major leap forward. It's all relative.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:41 AM   #28
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:53 AM   #29
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The lesson I learned in doing research on the Korean War was that these guys weren't inherently better or different than us. They found themselves in impossible situations and they struggled to get through. They weren't all heroes, just men and women that did their best to make it through. They're no different than today's soldiers. The difference, for better or worse, is that our society has created a system where the majority of us don't have to feel the pains of war.

That doesn't make their sacrifice any less, but I found it inspiring that there is no reason any generation can't be the greatest generation.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:00 AM   #30
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Same here, when I was a kid I didn't care about history classes, or any of this stuff, now I watch history channel every night and can't get enough. When I was a kid I never took the time to really talk to my grandfather about everything he went through in the war, looking back and that's my biggest regret.

I had one grandfather who died of injuries in WWII, years later. My other grandfather and my step-grandfather I guess you'd call him, neither of them liked to talk about the war much. I really treasure the memories of the couple times they opened up about it. Both were purple hearts, one an infantryman, one a pilot. My dad's father talked one night about it, diving in fox holes at artillery shells, and also about the savagery of some of his fellow soldiers when they found a German soldier who had been hiding. Just the emotion in his voice 60 years after the fact was stirring.

My step-grandfather spoke about the horror he carried with him the rest of his life - he went back to the States for a family emergency, and when he returned his entire flight crew was gone, having died in Europe. That stayed with him forever. As did the fact that his father couldn't find a way to do more than shake his hand when he entered the service, even knowing he might never see him again.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:07 AM   #31
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Anyways, I was bitching the other day because my DVR has an issue sometimes where shows don't record properly. What colossal babies we've become.

I agree, in many ways. That generation and the ones before didn't expect to have anything easy, and they just worked. Not just the men. At one point for work I transcribed some oral histories of people living in Texas in the early 1900s, and I remember vividly one mother who took care of the house, the kids, the farm all day long, then as soon as they were settled, walked however far it was to her parents' house, who were old and needed help, and stayed up all night with them, getting their food ready for the next day, caring for them, then home and back again. Never any expectation that you could or would do differently.

But on the flip side of that is some of the stuff I hinted at above about my grandfathers. They didn't complain, but their dads couldn't hug them goodbye, or cry, and they suffered unbelievable tragedy and never felt like they could talk about it. That's a strength and it's a weakness, and though we have overcorrected as a society, things weren't ideal then either.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:24 AM   #32
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I believe this was the greatest American generation ever. I don't know if the current America could ever pull together like they did.

Given how many people agree with you, perhaps you're right. Sounds like there are more defeatist chickenshits around than I thought. Or maybe people deluded by nostalgia. The "greatest" generation? Laughable. I'll give them credit for their efforts in WWII, but then they decided that they were owed everything under the sun for it and proceeded to fuck up the economy and the environment for the rest of us.

I know my generation beat the 4th largest army in the world in 100 hours, learned how to be good parents rather than hands-off disciplinarians and continue to work our asses off even though we know we're the first generation who isn't going to have it as good as our parents even if both parents are working (rather than one staying home and taking care of the household). If we don't get to match up against an enemy actually worthy of us becuase the rest of the world has gotten weaker, that's a problem I'm frankly glad not to have. But if there were, we'd fucking do what we needed to do to win so long as the rules set by the "greatest generation" and the one after that allowed us to win. You know, that they don't handcuff us like they did in Vietnam.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:02 PM   #33
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Damn. I got roped in.

I don't think you can compare what happened in Iraq to what happened in WWII. We were fighting a two-front war against an opponent that had similar tech then we did (until the end). In Iraq, we were able to fight the first part of the war unopposed. Our aircraft faced little resistance and our cruise missiles did all sorts of damage. These really weren't options during the first part of WWII.

The problem with the country today is that we are soft. It would take a horrific event to pull us together. We are too addicted to our technology and too divided by our political differences.

But I guess its feasible. Obviously, 9/11 pulled the country together briefly but we didn't need to drum up a big war effort after that.

I think you have said on these boards before that you would gladly fight for your country but it would have to be on home soil. How many others have that opinion? How many people would give up their lives these days to go fight in China, the Middle East, or wherever. (I am 99% that was you, with the other 1% thinking it was SackAttack).
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:13 PM   #34
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Our generation can't comprehend the sacrifices made by our grandparents generation. It is splashed on the news everytime a us or ally copter goes down in the middle east( I have no issue with this). Imagine there being literally thousands of us casualties a day. Everyone knew someone and was effected on way or the other.

Physically and mentally we have the ability, we are are still human beings just as back then. We just wouldn't have the motivation this go around. Post WW2 is all we know, why would America band together and fight if we don't know/understand what we are fighting for?
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:42 PM   #35
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this thread took a strange turn.

wars today are ambiguous against ghosts and shadows. the nazi's were comic book villains.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:32 PM   #36
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Greatest generations to me would include the generations involved in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War and World War II. One gave us their vision of what a country could be, one wanted to perfect that vision for all to be truly equal, and one wanted to extend that vision of equality to the world. Not really sure how you can choose between those three as one being the greatest.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:37 PM   #37
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I think the greatest generation will be our children. Those kids are going to have a lot of shit to deal with and I'm optimistic they'll figure it out.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:22 PM   #38
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Greatest generations to me would include the generations involved in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War and World War II. One gave us their vision of what a country could be, one wanted to perfect that vision for all to be truly equal, and one wanted to extend that vision of equality to the world. Not really sure how you can choose between those three as one being the greatest.

I agree, particularly for the Civil War which is where I would put my "greatest generation" moniker though the whole thing seems stupid to me.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:37 PM   #39
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I think you have said on these boards before that you would gladly fight for your country but it would have to be on home soil. How many others have that opinion? How many people would give up their lives these days to go fight in China, the Middle East, or wherever. (I am 99% that was you, with the other 1% thinking it was SackAttack).

That wasn't me. I've said that I'd fight if we were attacked, but I don't believe in the US being the aggressor.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:43 PM   #40
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One gave us their vision of what a country could be, one wanted to perfect that vision for all to be truly equal

I had two great, great grandfather's fighting on both sides during the Civil War.

They both survived some harrowing events, and lived to a very old age. Consequently they didn't get along very well even in their twilight years.

One served in the Confederate Army in mostly southern Missouri and Arkansas. He was like most who served in the Confederacy. He was fighting because he felt he was being invaded by northerners. Most of the houses of neighbors were being burned down by the Union forces and sympathizers. Livestock stolen for the "cause" and forced conscription. Many in the area were called out in the middle of the night by torch bearing folks, who subsequently shot them on their porch. Like most he didn't own slaves, nor know anyone who did; so saying he fought "for" slavery is laughable.

The other fought for the Union. He was very patriotic and felt that secession was treason. He couldn't imagine how anyone could jeopardize this great "experiment" of freedom that was our republic.

Both fought very hard for their concept of freedom, but unfortunately like most soldiers of the time, slavery was not on their minds.

The end of slavery was just a very fortunate product of the war, and not the reason it was fought in most instances.

Didn't mean to stray away from topic, but just cringe when the Civil War is erroneously reduced so cleanly to a "war about slavery".

P.S. Mizzou-bball fan that is ONE COOL POSTER!
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #41
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Individual soldiers may not have been fighting for slavery, but there is little doubt the states were urged to secede primarily to retain slavery. Read The Apostles of Disunion and you can see the speeches of the secession ambassadors to state congresses.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:05 PM   #42
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I'm pretty sure that the yolo and swag crowd would/will fold under any sort of pressure. Lack of discipline in the lot of them.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:10 PM   #43
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I wasn't trying to say that there weren't great people today or anything. Was just saying how small our problems feel in comparison. Or how people complain about them much more.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:16 PM   #44
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Individual soldiers may not have been fighting for slavery, but there is little doubt the states were urged to secede primarily to retain slavery. Read The Apostles of Disunion and you can see the speeches of the secession ambassadors to state congresses.

You are right. The Civil War and it's many intricacies have been well researched and slavery was definitely on the minds of many of the ruling elite in the deep south. However, I just get uneasy when I see it tagged as "good guys versus bad guys", and "The war about slavery". The Civil war spanned so many American cultures and regions that I hate to see it boiled down to such a clean disagreement.

This was a time before news (if you want to call what we have today news), traveled at the speed of nonsense. Most didn't receive a paper, let alone get the stump speech (cspan of the era). Like most wars the individual stories are greater than the sum of it's parts.

Again, sorry to the originator of the thread I didn't mean to de-rail such a historically important and great post.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:19 PM   #45
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The problem with the country today is that we are soft. It would take a horrific event to pull us together. We are too addicted to our technology and too divided by our political differences.

But I guess its feasible. Obviously, 9/11 pulled the country together briefly but we didn't need to drum up a big war effort after that.



Well, it is forgotten that a large proportion of the American general population was indifferent to the events of WWII 1939-1941, or had outright isolationist views prior to US entry into the war in late 1941. There was also a surprising amount of Nazi sympathy at the time.

It really did take an attack on home soil (if a de-facto colony in the middle of the Pacific was even considered as such) for most Americans to start caring about world events at the time.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:58 PM   #46
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I believe this was the greatest American generation ever. I don't know if the current America could ever pull together like they did.

+1
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:59 PM   #47
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Pictures from a burial of Wallace F. Quillin, Arizona crewman on December 7th, 2012. Park rangers and Navy officers attended on his behalf as he had no surviving relatives.....



















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Old 12-10-2012, 03:20 PM   #48
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I think the greatest generation will be our children. Those kids are going to have a lot of shit to deal with and I'm optimistic they'll figure it out.
Woohoo, way to kick the can further down the road!
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:42 PM   #49
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Pearl Harbor, USS Arizona survivor dies at VA center
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:07 PM   #50
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Navy honors Pearl Harbor survivor during USS Utah Memorial ceremony : Hookele – Pearl Harbor – Hickam News
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