The Trump Presidency – 2016

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

*yawn*

Thank you for the example.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

*yawn*

similar reaction to most citizens in Nazi Germany

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

similar reaction to most citizens in Nazi Germany

It's amazing what people will look past if they feel like they are on the right side. Hell, look at the Milgram studies to see what people are willing to do, even if they disagree, as long as someone else is telling them it's ok, or pushing them.

I think I posted somewhere about the lack of public accountability of the president when mr. Twitter uses hot takes to communicate. There's nobody to really push him, and the administration controls the narrative. Here we are. White House has pretty much stopped briefings, and the presidential weekly address is no more. The fringe are being elevated to legitimacy by getting personal invitations to talk in the white house and the only news getting any regular interviews is fox.

This feels like I was spot on with my concerns.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Every day im blown away.
I never thought I'd hear the president tell elected congressmen, not even women, literally anyone, to go back from where you came. This is truly a new level and will allow more racism to spread in this county. This is racism at its purest form.

Why? He has been a white supremacist for decades. I don't know why people are surprised that an openly white supremacist says stuff that openly white supremacists say.

[Flasch186]

I think (as of now) the only way the majority of the Trumpists finally break from him would be if he suspended the constitution in order to have a 3rd term. That might be the only bridge too far and we have a lot of roadway ahead of that bridge for him to do whatever the F he wants all the while having no one check him.

I look forward to the hypocrisy of that same group while trying to check the next president's power that might not align with their reddish thoughts.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I think (as of now) the only way the majority of the Trumpists finally break from him would be if he suspended the constitution in order to have a 3rd term. That might be the only bridge too far and we have a lot of roadway ahead of that bridge for him to do whatever the F he wants all the while having no one check him.

I look forward to the hypocrisy of that same group while trying to check the next president's power that might not align with their reddish thoughts.

Why would they separate from him? They would cheer him on and he would be emboldened by their support.

Some republicans who hold their nose and vote along party lines may break from him, but Trumpists would be tickled pink at the thought of him staying in office. He has brainwashed the fear of what may happen once the Dems take over. Illegals would pour in and rape their daughters, we would become a purely socialist nation, foreign government would take advantage of us in trade deals, did I mention illegals? He is their savior. these people are sick.

The only thing that could convert Trumpists, IMO, is if the economy tanks hard. even then I'm not sure. Farmers still support him.

[Noop]

I'm independent. I find the far left as frightening as the far right. The democrats in the House's refusal to even begin impeachment inquires is imo a sign of weakness.

The Mueller Report at minimum lays out obstruction of justice. The amount of people in Trump's orbit who peddled influence to foreign powers alone should be major cause for concern. And yet the Democrats sit idle and play identity politics.

AOC and her ilk feel like they are plants and Agents of Chaos. Why for the sake of the republic do they not shut up long enough to unite their party behind something.

[lungs]

I'm already seeing MAGAbots (probably Russian, haha) pushing the third term narrative by saying that a coup against Trump means that the first term didn't count.

Of course, he needs to win a second term before we can talk about a third. If he can't win a second, perhaps the voter fraud angle will come back. Either way, what's going on now is going to be tame compared to what we are in store for.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by lungs

I'm already seeing MAGAbots (probably Russian, haha) pushing the third term narrative by saying that a coup against Trump means that the first term didn't count.

Of course, he needs to win a second term before we can talk about a third. If he can't win a second, perhaps the voter fraud angle will come back. Either way, what's going on now is going to be tame compared to what we are in store for.

How the heck did we get to a place where this is even seen as anything but crazy talk.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Noop

How the heck did we get to a place where this is even seen as anything but crazy talk.

Think this has always been there, but now with social media the crazies now have a place to come together and make their message of insanity heard.

[Flasch186]

Watch the movie Us and you'll be able to see how this occurs.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I think (as of now) the only way the majority of the Trumpists finally break from him would be if he suspended the constitution in order to have a 3rd term. That might be the only bridge too far and we have a lot of roadway ahead of that bridge for him to do whatever the F he wants all the while having no one check him.

I look forward to the hypocrisy of that same group while trying to check the next president's power that might not align with their reddish thoughts.

I don't think pushing for a 3rd term alone would do much honestly. The GOP has had no problem with Trump expanding the powers of the executive branch even to their own detriment. The evangelical right doesn't care how much Trump runs counter to their beliefs and morals as long as he's out there fighting the good fight to take other's rights away. They're not breaking off. The racists? This administration is their dream scenario. Take away those 2 groups and how much of his die hard support is left?

Trump politics and the GOP as a whole will be studied for generations. It's something that's very difficult to counter because the goalposts are constantly moving.

His voter base would fracture, though, if the elected officials grew a spine, said enough is enough, and left him to govern in isolation until he grows up. Nothing is going to get rid of his true die-hards, but we'd very likely see his support cut in half (or at least cut enough to make winning an election impossible) if Congress decided to play ball against him.

The problem is those same elected officials feel like their only way to remain an elected official is to placate those very same voters. It's clear from past statements, current statements, and leaks that very few GOP in congress like Trump but they're willing to put survival politics over the good of the country for now.

It seems Trump's strategy for 2020 is to rile up his base as much as possible, continue to make obvious racist statements, split the country as much as possible, and hope for another electoral college miracle. I think his campaign realizes there isn't a scenario where he wins 2020 easily. They need to make it as muddy as possible and hope for an ugly finish.

[SirFozzie]

Lindsey Graham "We should aim higher and not make stupid comments"

Also Lindsey Graham "They're communists and ANti-Semites".

Ladies and gentlemen, the AristoGOPCats!

[JPhillips]

Trump's proven himself to be a coward, there's no way he tries to run for a third term. Our bigger problem will be the next authoritarian wannabe that isn't as scared as Trump has been. Trump has shown that our system is remarkably fragile.

[RainMaker]

He's 73 and his brain is already turning to mush. By the end of a 2nd term he'll be an empty vessel. They can prop him up like China did with Mao for the cult, but he's going to look and act like a much different person.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I think (as of now) the only way the majority of the Trumpists finally break from him would be if he suspended the constitution in order to have a 3rd term.

Honestly, the Trumpists don't give a single solitary good goddamn about the Constitution, except in limited circumstances.

To them, the Constitution IS the Second Amendment, and the rest is just a piece of paper.

The First Amendment matters, but only if white, Christian, conservative speech feels threatened. Freedom of the press? Fake news! Enemy of the State!

Fifth Amendment? Meh, doesn't matter that asylum seekers presented themselves at ports of entry as legally required. Lock 'em in cages, separate families, and deprive said asylum seekers of toiletries and we'll figure the rest out later. What due process? And before you b-b-but Obama, the point isn't whether an ebil dummycrat did any of that, the point is that no "Trumpist" is going to argue that the Fifth Amendment is being ignored. Because brown refugees aren't people. There are probably Sixth and Eighth Amendment implications there, too, but again - whether or not there are conservatives who would raise that alarm, "Trumpists" will not.

Limits on executive power in Article II? You're kidding, right?

And so on. The hard core #MAGA chuckleheads aren't going to abandon him before 2020. If something weird happens like Democrats winning the House and Senate but losing the White House and Trump turns around and goes "okay I'm a liberal now," yeah, but at that point, it wouldn't matter, electorally speaking.

Originally Posted by Noop

I'm independent. I find the far left as frightening as the far right. The democrats in the House's refusal to even begin impeachment inquires is imo a sign of weakness.

The Mueller Report at minimum lays out obstruction of justice. The amount of people in Trump's orbit who peddled influence to foreign powers alone should be major cause for concern.

The problem is that impeachment is, at this moment, essentially a political question. It isn't enough for Trump to deserve impeachment and removal, because as others have pointed out, survival politics on the part of Republican Senators mean that any - ANY - impeachment trial in the Senate is essentially DOA. McConnell will sweep it under the rug and dispose of it as quickly as possible and the moment is gone, with Trump still in power, sans consequences.

And I guarantee if Democrats tried again, his lawyers would raise a Fifth Amendment question with the Supreme Court. Not sure it'd matter that an impeachment trial isn't a criminal trial; I suspect there are at least four votes on the Supreme Court willing to say "yeah you can't try him twice for the same "high crimes and misdemeanors," and I'm not convinced Roberts wouldn't join them.

So that's the thing. SHOULD Trump be impeached and removed? Yep. Would it be anything more than pissing into the wind? Supremely unlikely.

Maybe you could wait to level articles of impeachment until like July or August and try to dominate the news cycle with that to taint him heading into the election, but...if you don't have Senators of character willing to say "yeah, this is bullshit" - and right now you don't even have a simple majority, let alone 2/3 - then all impeachment amounts to is public masturbation.

WOO WE GOT HIM NOTHING'S ACTUALLY GOING TO HAPPEN BUT WE DID A THING

I'm sympathetic to the argument that if Congress doesn't act it'll weaken impeachment as a tool against future misdeeds, but I think we're already across the Rubicon on that one. We had a Democratic President impeached for lying about a blowjob and we have a Republican President who SHOULD be impeached for obstruction of justice, at minimum, but a Department of Justice and Republican Senate willing to circle the wagons for him no matter how significant his misdeeds.

So I'm just not sure what you can do short of voting the motherfucker out of office in a year and change.

[tarcone]

3rd term and suspension of the constitution should make people understand why the 2nd amendment is important

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Noop

AOC and her ilk feel like they are plants and Agents of Chaos. Why for the sake of the republic do they not shut up long enough to unite their party behind something.

If you were a 28 year old congressman with a shit load of press would you shut up? Not to mention you were directly insulted by the US president with all the attention that brings. Would you go and say nothing?

I just read a theory that the right is trying to make these women with generally far far left ideas into the face of the party. If true then Trump is doing a wonderful job.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Noop

I'm independent. I find the far left as frightening as the far right. The democrats in the House's refusal to even begin impeachment inquires is imo a sign of weakness.

The Mueller Report at minimum lays out obstruction of justice. The amount of people in Trump's orbit who peddled influence to foreign powers alone should be major cause for concern. And yet the Democrats sit idle and play identity politics.

AOC and her ilk feel like they are plants and Agents of Chaos. Why for the sake of the republic do they not shut up long enough to unite their party behind something.

This doesn't make any sense. It's the far left that wants to move forward with impeachment proceedings. The moderate Democrats are the ones resisting it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Noop

AOC and her ilk feel like they are plants and Agents of Chaos. Why for the sake of the republic do they not shut up long enough to unite their party behind something.

Because the Democratic Party doesn't stand for anything. I think that's their issue. People can bash Republicans, but they at least have a policy and implement it. What exactly does Pelosi want to do besides insider trading?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I just read a theory that the right is trying to make these women with generally far far left ideas into the face of the party. If true then Trump is doing a wonderful job.

It ain't about the ideas. Dark skin and female are two of the traits his base doesn't particularly care for.

[stevew]

I dig on Omar.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It ain't about the ideas. Dark skin and female are two of the traits his base doesn't particularly care for.

This targets the moderates more than the base.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

This targets the moderates more than the base.

So moderates are more inclined to be racist than his hardcore base?

[Thomkal]

Roger Stone had a hearing today to determine if he violated his gag order. The judge has expanded the terms of her gag order to:


Per a judge's order today, which expands an earlier gag order, Roger Stone cannot: - Post anything on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter - Make statements about his case or use any other platform to comment, although he can still fundraise for legal defense

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Roger Stone had a hearing today to determine if he violated his gag order. The judge has expanded the terms of her gag order to:


Per a judge's order today, which expands an earlier gag order, Roger Stone cannot: - Post anything on Instagram, Facebook, or Twitter - Make statements about his case or use any other platform to comment, although he can still fundraise for legal defense

Isn't this like the 3rd time he's broken his gag order? And one of them was a threat to the judge? Why does the judge bother?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Isn't this like the 3rd time he's broken his gag order? And one of them was a threat to the judge? Why does the judge bother?

She actually read a lot of his posts out loud during the hearing so the world knows what he said now. Maybe she thought it would shame him to silence.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Radii

No matter what you choose to do to justify your vote for Donald Trump, by doing so you are saying that you are willing to compromise your own morals and values to this level of open, public personal racism, sexism, and countless other forms of hatred that our President has empowered and emboldened for whatever personal gain you feel you're getting out of the deal.

You may argue that you yourself are not personally racist, but supporting this behavior is truly horrific and damaging to millions of Americans on a personal level.

I agree with you, but once again this is consistent behavior that is not in any way unique to Trump supporters. Look at the conversation we've been having about Amash as the latest among many demonstrations. A number of people here have reasonably and respectfully made the point that they respect his integrity but would never vote for him for policy reasons. I completely believe them on that and have no reason to think they aren't being straightforward about it. What we're hearing coming out of Trumpers is the same basic thing; they like his policy approaches for the most part and that outweighs anything else about him.

If we put policy above character (and we do, consistently and over a long period of time as a nation) then we have no justification for getting up in arms about the latest example of where that philosophy ultimately leads.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

What we're hearing coming out of Trumpers is the same basic thing; they like his policy approaches for the most part and that outweighs anything else about him.
.

Maybe we consume our content elsewhere, but I VERY rarely hear a Trumper talk about anything policy related. I hear a lot of

" Trump tells it like it is"

" But the economy is good"

" well Obama did it also"

"FAKE NEWS"

"he is making America great again"

"well people always attack him, he can't defend himself?"

"those people shouldn't have come here"

Does Trump even know what his policy is?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

She actually read a lot of his posts out loud during the hearing so the world knows what he said now. Maybe she thought it would shame him to silence.

She seems quite dumb.

[Thomkal]

Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens dead at age 98.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Maybe we consume our content elsewhere, but I VERY rarely hear a Trumper talk about anything policy related.

Stuff I've specifically heard:

** Generally not being Hillary was and is considered his biggest qualification. It's often not so much what Trump is, but what Trump's election kept from happening.
** Conservative SCOTUS appointments
** Immigration is a big one, and this is in Michigan, a state that's about as not directly relevant to that issue as any in the country.
** The economy being better is a policyish response. Naturally I don't agree with their take on it, but they do have a point; overall economic growth has been better under Trump than under Obama even post-recovery. I think the president has little to do with that, but presidents pretty much always take more credit/blame for the economy than they deserve, so ... The trade war/tariff stuff slides in here.
** Opposing the AOC/Sanders 'socialism' push by the 'left' - l think the whole right/left thing doesn't accurately describe modern politics, but that's another can of worms.
** Abortion; better to have Trump than a pro-choice prez

Etc. I do also hear the stuff you've described, the lion's share about Trump being perceived a strong leader vis a vis Obama's perceived apology tour stuff, Trump being considered more pro-law enforcement, and so on.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens dead at age 98.

Fake news.

...he'd turned 99 a few months ago.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Maybe we consume our content elsewhere, but I VERY rarely hear a Trumper talk about anything policy related. I hear a lot of

" Trump tells it like it is"

" But the economy is good"

"those people shouldn't have come here"

These. Also, "the Democrats care more about immigrants than they do about Americans."

"Why don't the Democrats fix poverty instead of worrying about illegal immigrants?"

We're trying, fuckwads, but Trump took any of the money for that and gave it to the rich.

Of course the "economy" is going to be good when you're running trillion dollar deficits. Sadly, there's still a government to run. The GOP is trying to work backwards from here, saying the only way to stop these deficits is to vastly decrease entitlements / the size of government.

But the economy was running pretty good before the giant money grab by the upper class, but I'm not sure how effective that argument is going to be.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Fake news.

...he'd turned 99 a few months ago.

::holds his head in shame:::


guess I deserve a banning for that

[Kodos]

Nah. You can just go work for Fox News now.

[JPhillips]

Rand Paul has blocked the 9/11 responders bill because of the deficit.

lol. Now he gives a shit about the deficit?

[RainMaker]

The socialist argument is kind of weird since they don't have a problem with billions in handouts to farmers. I mean the farming industry is practically centrally controlled at this point.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Rand Paul has blocked the 9/11 responders bill because of the deficit.

lol. Now he gives a shit about the deficit?

I wish more people did. The rest of the GOP doesn't and the Democratic presidential candidates are scrambling over themselves to find ways to spend more money.

[Lathum]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/polit..._medium=social

"Attempts by Democrats and the media to divide and define us by race are harmful. We need to elevate our level of discussion," Kelly said in the statement.

This would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic. The POTUS just told 4 minority congresswomen to go back to their countries, yet the Dems and the media are the reasons for the racial divide.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I wish more people did. The rest of the GOP doesn't and the Democratic presidential candidates are scrambling over themselves to find ways to spend more money.

At least the Democratic folks are willing to propose more money coming in to fund these things.

The Republicans? "CUT TAXES TO THE RICH AND EVERYTHING WILL MAGICALLY BE BETTER"

[JPhillips]

Today I saw another data set about the 2016 election. Trump won the mid-west states while winning significant majorities of voters that disliked both Trump and Clinton. He gained between 4-8% in MI, WI and PA from those voters.

That's going to be very difficult to replicate, but it explains his all negative strategy that he's already started for 2020.

[JPhillips]

Trump's crowd tonight started to chant "Send her back!" in response to his attacks on Omar. There is no bottom.

[Thomkal]

Barr and Ross after writing a letter to Pelosi asking her to stop the contempt vote, are voted in contempt.

[NobodyHere]

So impeachment was brought to a floor vote and was handily defeated. The democrats really need to learn the concept of unity.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump's crowd tonight started to chant "Send her back!" in response to his attacks on Omar. There is no bottom.

Appalling

[cuervo72]

Not disappointing though. Hoping that with every little step just a few more realize that things have gotten just a little too racist for their liking. (Not expecting miracles, but baby steps, you know?)

[Radii]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So impeachment was brought to a floor vote and was handily defeated. The democrats really need to learn how to do their fucking jobs.

FTFY. I'm starting to dislike Pelosi almost as much as many on the right do.

[ISiddiqui]

I think Pelosi is doing the smart thing. I'm deathly afraid of Impeachment riling up Trump's base and giving him a victory in 2020.

[lungs]

What is the upside to impeachment at this point? In a vacuum, it's probably the right call but we don't live in vacuums. Trump wants to be painted as a sympathetic figure and this helps in that regard. The Senate will never convict him so I just think that 100% of the energy should be directed at the next realistic chance at removing him from power which is November 2020.