Poll - NFL 18 Game schedule

[AgustusM]

I keep reading how the 18 game proposal is the major sticking point in the CBA. I do think this is just negotiating tactic by the NFL.

Do fans even want an 18 game schedule.

[molson]

I haven't heard any good arguments in favor of it from a footbal perspective.

The owners did well though, to invent this negotiating tactic out of thin air. They'll try to get a concession from the players to pull it back - even though it hasn't happened yet.

[Lathum]

I predict Bucc will be the lone voter for a 14 game season.

[TRO]

Where is the 15 games and a Trout Fishing Tournament option?

[Mustang]

Would I like 18 games a year? Sure. Anytime that you can have more weekends of football it isn't a bad thing. Of course, I'd love to eat chicken wings and nachos everyday, but it isn't a good thing from a health standpoint. Just not sure how the cumulative affect of 2 more games every year would have on the overall careers of players, especially running backs.

[Dutch]

18-games is too much for the NFL. Injuries take away too many good players by the time the playoffs roll around as it is.

Also, without restructuring the way you play inside your division we will see 6 games vs division opponents and 12 vs the field. Crappy divsions champs could realistically be 8-10 (or worse...).

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Would I like 18 games a year? Sure. Anytime that you can have more weekends of football it isn't a bad thing. Of course, I'd love to eat chicken wings and nachos everyday, but it isn't a good thing from a health standpoint. Just not sure how the cumulative affect of 2 more games every year would have on the overall careers of players, especially running backs.

Agreed. When I first heard about it, I thought "Kick ass, more meaningful football, woo!" But then as arguments came out from the NFLPA and such, it really is clear why they don't want it, especially with the prevalence of concussions this season (or at least the exposure of it, who knows if its truly more prevalent than years past). This seems to be the major sticking point between the sides for the CBA and I really hope the owners just get over themselves and realize it can't end well if they go forward with it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Dutch

18-games is too much for the NFL. Injuries take away too many good players by the time the playoffs roll around as it is.

Also, without restructuring the way you play inside your division we will see 6 games vs division opponents and 12 vs the field. Crappy divsions champs could realistically be 8-10 (or worse...).

I haven't heard too much talk about reallignment with the 18-game schedule, and I'm not sure why. I think Boomer Esiasian pitched something like having just two divisions in each conference, where you'd play the 7 other teams in your division, 7 teams in the other division in your conference, and 4 from the other conference. Two division winners get byes, 4 wild cards. That makes sense if they go to 18 games, to avoid those weird statistical anomolies small division/big schedule would create, but I haven't heard anyone else talking about it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I, too, am against an 18 game schedule.

It's just too much. Too many injuries. Too much wear and tear on the players.

[Ksyrup]

Maybe I'm remember or perceiving this wrong, but it seems to me the whole "extend the season" thing came out of the argument that the pre-season was too long, no one wanted to pay for games played largely by filler guys who were going to get cut, players don't need 4 games to get ready, etc. And so of course, the owners took that and said, "But if we aren't getting people to pay for 20 games a year, we lose money. Thus, the regular season should be expanded. And oh as a concession to extending the season, we'll cut back on pre-season."

Seems to me the two issues are separate, but money is the primary (and probably sole) reason why the 18-game schedule is being proposed, and I think it started as a recognition of the weaknesses/problems with the pre-season. It's basically a non-starter to just cut back the pre-season and leave the regular season as-is. Fuckers.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by molson

I haven't heard too much talk about reallignment with the 18-game schedule, and I'm not sure why. I think Boomer Esiasian pitched something like having just two divisions in each conference, where you'd play the 7 other teams in your division, 7 teams in the other division in your conference, and 4 from the other conference. Two division winners get byes, 4 wild cards. That makes sense if they go to 18 games, to avoid those weird statistical anomolies small division/big schedule would create, but I haven't heard anyone else talking about it.

I hate the idea of not playing everyone in your own division twice and getting rid of the home and home aspect of it. Go back to 3 divisions, 6/5/5 in size, now you're playing 8 out of 18 or 10 out of 18 against your own division, a little more similar to the 6 out of 16 that are played now against division opponents.

Better yet, stick to 16 games.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Maybe I'm remember or perceiving this wrong, but it seems to me the whole "extend the season" thing came out of the argument that the pre-season was too long, no one wanted to pay for games played largely by filler guys who were going to get cut, players don't need 4 games to get ready, etc. And so of course, the owners took that and said, "But if we aren't getting people to pay for 20 games a year, we lose money. Thus, the regular season should be expanded. And oh as a concession to extending the season, we'll cut back on pre-season."

Seems to me the two issues are separate, but money is the primary (and probably sole) reason why the 18-game schedule is being proposed, and I think it started as a recognition of the weaknesses/problems with the pre-season. It's basically a non-starter to just cut back the pre-season and leave the regular season as-is. Fuckers.

This is how I remember it originating as well.

[panerd]

Like Ksyrup said I am pretty sure they are going from 4 preseason + 16 games to 2 preseason + 18 games. Who could possibly be against this? My friend has season tickets and has to buy all 10, why wouldn't he want one more meaningful game? For those of you who hate the last two weeks of the season... You really hate it more than preseason weeks 3 and 4????

[Ksyrup]

I'm not for it - the only people it seems to positively affect are season ticket holders.

My main point is that I don't think it's a good idea to make a decision to extend the season solely because you are going to lose money by doing the right thing to adjust the pre-season. It seems like the motivation for the 18-game regular season is the root of the problem, and that's why no one is particularly in favor of it.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by panerd

Like Ksyrup said I am pretty sure they are going from 4 preseason + 16 games to 2 preseason + 18 games. Who could possibly be against this? My friend has season tickets and has to buy all 10, why wouldn't he want one more meaningful game? For those of you who hate the last two weeks of the season... You really hate it more than preseason weeks 3 and 4????

I voted 18, but only if they change two preseason games to real games like you state above.

To me, 4 preseason games is 2 too many.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Like Ksyrup said I am pretty sure they are going from 4 preseason + 16 games to 2 preseason + 18 games. Who could possibly be against this? My friend has season tickets and has to buy all 10, why wouldn't he want one more meaningful game? For those of you who hate the last two weeks of the season... You really hate it more than preseason weeks 3 and 4????

I don't care about preseason weeks 3 and 4. That doesn't have anything to do with extending the regular season by at least 3 weeks (2 games plus an additional bye week) or the downside effect it may have on the players as they now play meaningful games into possibly late February.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't care about preseason weeks 3 and 4. That doesn't have anything to do with extending the regular season by at least 3 weeks (2 games plus an additional bye week) or the downside effect it may have on the players as they now play meaningful games into possibly late February.

Why wouldn't the season still end at the same time if they cut two preseason games? Do you think they will wait until Labor Day to start the regular season? My guess is they will start two weeks earlier but maybe you are right. I think right now February kind of sucks. Mizzou plays 2 days a week and I watch a couple other college basketball games. I would love for there to be football on the weekends.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by panerd

You really hate it more than preseason weeks 3 and 4????

Weeks 1 and 4 are usually the worst. Week 3 the starters usually roll into the 3rd quarter so, that is typically the 'best' preseason game.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Weeks 1 and 4 are usually the worst. Week 3 the starters usually roll into the 3rd quarter so, that is typically the 'best' preseason game.

I don't think that answers his question. The reason he chose Weeks 3 and 4 is not because they're the worst, but because those are the weeks you miss out on by expanding the regular season.

[Passacaglia]

I think the question is how much will fans demand go down with an expansion to 18, since each game becomes a little less meaningful. With 18 games, you can lose a game or three and you're still in playoff contention, so the beginning games won't matter as much. On the other hand, mediocre teams will remain in playoff contention longer, so there will be more interest in those mid-to-late season games for them.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure fans would watch the games, but the fallacy/lie in all of this is the NFL saying this is something the fans want, when in reality, it's what the owners want in order to reduce the pre-season. Very few of us are promoting this as something that the NFL should proactively do - it's not like there is some deficiency with the regular season now that needs to be fixed. At best, fans are lukewarm to the idea but don't object to replacing 2 meaningless games with 2 more real games. But there is no groundswell of fan support for this, as if the fans are demanding it happen and the NFL is just doing what the fans want.

That's the argument I've seen Goodell make at times about this, and it's completely disingenuous.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by panerd

Why wouldn't the season still end at the same time if they cut two preseason games? Do you think they will wait until Labor Day to start the regular season? My guess is they will start two weeks earlier but maybe you are right. I think right now February kind of sucks. Mizzou plays 2 days a week and I watch a couple other college basketball games. I would love for there to be football on the weekends.

I would be very surprised if the NFL moved the start of the season to before or even on Labor Day if they added 2 more regular season games. If I recall the past discussions, the season was still going to start the same weekend and just go longer into January.

[Ksyrup]

Goodell has openly talked about a scenario in which the NFL claims more of February, since it is widely known to be the worst/deadest sports month on the calendar. I think I posted in another thread recently a quote of his about the SB being held in mid-February.

if you add 2 more regular season games, another bye week, and add in the possibility of every team playing in at least 1 international game (which is where this is eventually going), then the regular season isn't going to end until maybe now, then you've got a month or so of playoffs.

[Radii]

I'm a lot more concerned about the potential decline in the quality of play with 2 extra regular season games worth of injuries on the books than anything else. Removing two preseason games and adding two regular season games isn't a wash as far as the wear and tear on the players bodies by a long shot.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I predict Bucc will be the lone voter for a 14 game season.

I blew your prediction the fuck up!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I blew your prediction the fuck up!

Well I knew it would be one of the old farts

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Radii

I'm a lot more concerned about the potential decline in the quality of play with 2 extra regular season games worth of injuries on the books than anything else. Removing two preseason games and adding two regular season games isn't a wash as far as the wear and tear on the players bodies by a long shot.

This. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that all things being equal they would rather watch preseason games. But 2 more regular season games at the start of the season are 2 more games you play your starters every snap and 2 more games that there are serious injuries occurring to star players. It seems ridiculous to me that the NFL is finally taking things like concussions and hits to the head seriously, and at the same time is trying to add 2 meaningful games to the schedule.

[spleen1015]

I want them to stay at 16 games.

I used be one of those folks that wanted 18 games. YES! More GAMES! Bring it!

Thinking about it though, more games are going to make all of the games less important. I think 16 is enough.

All of this was brought about because the preseason is too long and the owners don't want to lose money by dropping 2 games. They will end up making more money because more tickets are going to be sold to the 2 new regular season games.

The one angle I find interesting is the owners using this as a bargaining chip. They can give this up in turn getting something from the players and they never intended to make the season 18 games.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Radii

I'm a lot more concerned about the potential decline in the quality of play with 2 extra regular season games worth of injuries on the books than anything else. Removing two preseason games and adding two regular season games isn't a wash as far as the wear and tear on the players bodies by a long shot.

This is my main concern as well. Expanding the roster size and modifying the IR rules (to allow a player to be placed on IR and still come back during the season) is one way to help alleviate some concerns, but not the main ones.

As I noted in another thread, at one point late in the season the NFC North's starting QBs were: Matt Flynn, Drew Stanton, Joe Webb and Jay Cutler. I fear we'd see a lot more of that if the season is expanded.

[Doug5984]

I wish I didn't have to pay for 2 preseason games with my season tickets- thats a complete waste...so 1 is better than 2 there. I don't really care if it is 16 or 18, but I do want to see an expanded roster and a "short" IR as well. I see no reason this couldn't happen- and should be something the NFLPA wants as well (more jobs + players have time to get healthy / not rushed back just because the roster is short on bodies)

[SteveMax58]

PING: VINCE MCMAHON

WE NEED A NEW FOOTBALL LEAGUE FOR ALL THESE PLAYERS!!

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Well I knew it would be one of the old farts

Hey, I'm for going with East/West divisions with 8 teams each.

I'd even consider making the forward pass illegal.

Back when I played, the only helmet you wore was a concussion. And we played on both offense and defense. And we were happy with it! There was no such thing as a "dome." We had to run for a score in the snow. Uphill, both ways! And we were happy with it! I had to work selling peanuts at halftime to put a nickel's worth of gas in the old jalopy. That was when a nickel could actually buy you a nickel's worth of gas!

[CU Tiger]

What I would love to see is an 18 game schedule but no player can play in more than 16 games. Expand the rosters to maybe 70 and make depth play a real role in the game planning and team building. Play all your starters for 16 straight and bank on being able to rest them down the stretch or sit manning when you play the Bengals in case you need him in week 18...it'll never happen I know but it would be a fun fof type experiemnt I think

[Solecismic]

More work for me. No thanks.

Shorter career for players. Add in a strict salary scale for the first four years and it's a huge, huge win for the owners financially.

I wish all this change were simply posturing on the part of owners, but they seem to genuinely believe they can double their profits without sharing any of that with the players. And they are willing to blow up the game to try and make that happen.

[gstelmack]

18 game season, dropping 2 preseason games.

Expand rosters. 46 active is redundant with a salary cap anyway.

Reorganize into 4 total divisions, keeping conference alignment (you can't get rid of AFC/NFC anyway). 14 games in division, 4 games against other division in your conference. NFL is a TV game, who cares if the guys from the other conference never come to town? That'll shut up all the whining about 7-9 Seattle hosting a playoff game, and it's the only way to do a proper seeded tournament.

You already get major injuries in the preseason, why not make those games count?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

You already get major injuries in the preseason, why not make those games count?

A lot of the major injuries in the preseason are guys that wouldn't be on the field in the regular season though. It sucks for them obviously (although there's worse things than collecting an NFL minimum salary on IR for a year), but in terms of a quality product it's much better that Joe Schmoe blows his knee out in late August rather than Tom Brady.

[MIJB#19]

I'm missing the point on the ticket holders and the 'need to buy tickets for the pre-season' argument. Basically, you're buying the regular season tickets and get the pre-season for free, no? Don't you think the franchises will be smart enough to raise the prices to make up for not giving a meaningful game away for free?

The 'teams are longer in the playoffs race' is rather weak. I'd expect more teams to be eliminated going into the last two weekends because the seperation between good and bad teams will be bigger. You'll get more clinched berths and spots after week 17 and thus more week 18 games where teams won't go all out.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The one angle I find interesting is the owners using this as a bargaining chip. They can give this up in turn getting something from the players and they never intended to make the season 18 games.

This seems plausible. I'm not sure where all parties are on the rookie salaries debate, but that's the first thing I thought of, to use that as the other end of the negotiations.

Concerning the schedules: it will be easy to solve, playing 6 games in-division, 4 against division A in the conference, 4 in division B in the conference and 4 in division C of the other conference. Although, it will tone down on the division champ vs division champ stuff that makes for good football games, but it also means a fairer schedule for all teams involved in the same division.

[Buccaneer]

Easy poll - cut it back to 14 but keep the current playoff structure and cut preseason to 2 games.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i hate it. everything since goodell has been aggressive expansion of revenue. the longer season will just exacerbate the head injury stuff and hasten the end of football as we know it.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I'm missing the point on the ticket holders and the 'need to buy tickets for the pre-season' argument. Basically, you're buying the regular season tickets and get the pre-season for free, no? Don't you think the franchises will be smart enough to raise the prices to make up for not giving a meaningful game away for free?

I can only speak of Carolina Panthers tickets, which we have 4 seats/PSLs. *(though I havent been to a game in 3 years)
We currently pay $85/seat/game including preseason.
So this year we paid $850/seat for the 8 home games and the 2 pre eason games.

A few years back through some crap they ended up with 3 home pre season games, so my sason tickets went up an extra game. At least is they expand to 18 I can actually find someone to give an extra ticket year to...I cant give away pre season tickets.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

A lot of the major injuries in the preseason are guys that wouldn't be on the field in the regular season though.

But not nearly all. Several starters go down each year in training camp, let alone preaseason or the regular season. Heck, Robert Edwards blew out his knee and destroyed his career in a beach flag football game. I really don't think you'll see teams in much worse shape if any at the end of the regular season than you do right now, since they'll play two fewer preason games. Especially if you expand the rosters to keep more guys in game shape to both relieve the strain on the existing roster guys and be ready to step in quicker if someone goes down.

I could maybe see the case for running backs who have short careers to begin with and for whom carry load is a big deal, but you also have far more teams platooning their backs, and they do carry in preseason anyway, so I'm not sure again if there will be much effect.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

i hate it. everything since goodell has been aggressive expansion of revenue. the longer season will just exacerbate the head injury stuff and hasten the end of football as we know it.

you really are all over the end of the NFL doomsday.

[stevew]

A legit disabled list instead of IR or inactive would do well for the quality of play later in the season. Also I'd favor a playoff expansion to 7 with only the #1 overall getting a bye week.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Thinking about it though, more games are going to make all of the games less important. I think 16 is enough.

I think it would just make last two weeks more irrelevant in terms of competitive games with something on the line.

[RainMaker]

I'd love more football like most, but it's just too much. I mean the Saints were playing with a 7th string RB in a playoff game. A handful of teams were starting 3rd string QBs late. Just doesn't sound too appealing to me.

[aran]

I think that the NFL should increase the length of the season, but increase the number of bye weeks as well. An 18-game season where every team has 3 bye weeks would be great, I think, and would probably more than offset the increased number of injuries. It wouldn't do much to mitigate the effect of serious injuries, but it would lead to a rash of the moderate-severity injuries not being anywhere near as harmful.

[RendeR]

They won't realign the league if they expand to 18 games. As it is until they expand with new teams they have the simplest and easiest scheduling system possible with 32 teams.

Right now you play your div twice (6 games)
You play a single division from each conference (8 games)
You play 2 teams from the other in conference divisions that matched your standing from the previous year (2 games)

There are two simplistic options to settle this:

Play your division 3 times trading the extra home game every other seasons (9 games 1/2 of your season IN division)
You play 2 other divisions, one from each conference (8 games)
You play 1 other conference opponent who finished in the same position as you the previous year (1 game)

This has extra meaning since you get your division rivals an extra game each season, it makes tie breaking far simpler because you cannot have a head to head tie.

OR

Keep the home and home setup with division opponents (6 games, 1/3 of the season)
Play 3 other full divisions alternating 2 in or out of conference each year (12 games)

I'd find it rather shocking if one of these solutions weren't used. Its simple, it doesn't disrupt the current league design and it allows for either more rivalry games or more exposure of teams to each market.


As for the injury argument, its not really going to make a difference. honestly, injuries will either happen, or they won't. Taking away 2 worthless pre season games and making them mean something far outweighs the expected injury change, if there is any.

I am for expanding rosters to 53 active and 7 slots for inactive, injured list players. This will do a couple things, it will help keep players fresh longer and it will help with the injury issue because you have more players to spread the plays around with.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by aran

I think that the NFL should increase the length of the season, but increase the number of bye weeks as well.

I think more bye weeks is already part of it as I've heard it would be 2 byes for each team.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you really are all over the end of the NFL doomsday.

i think it's inevitable. once the real science comes out no amount of shock absorbing turf or space age helmetry will save it. the question is when.

maybe the nfl knows it too and that's the catalyst behind this. get it while the gettins good.

if protecting the players were their primary concern (cut the sched, expand roster, limit contact in pract, etc) maybe they could wind the doomsday clock back a couple minutes.

[MajikMan77]

And those who consider the modern game era stats boosted by a 16 game season will really slam HoF'ers who get voted in based on an 18 game career.

Keep it at 16 games and shorten the preseason - indeed consider scrapping it entirely.