Students Have Whites-Only Prom in Taylor Co. GA

[JPhillips]

WTF?

Whites Only Prom

[Ben E Lou]

We discussed this last spring. I'm running a search at the old board right now. I'm quite familiar with the culture at Taylor County High School. If I can't find what I posted last year, I'll post more here in a bit.

[Easy Mac]

This is the first problem i see with the school:

As the black junior class president, her son helped organize the open-to-all prom. The class also has a white president.


The fact that they still do this sickens me. I guess our country isnt as progressive as we think sometimes.

[CamEdwards]

you know what disappoints me even more is the "black junior class president". It's one thing for a private prom to be segregated (and no, I'm not supporting it. I'd like to lecture those kids who decided not to have an integrated prom for about a week and a half), but it's not an official school function. It would seem to me like a class office would have something more to do with the school.

That's really sad that in this day and age there is still that sense of racism among our young people.

[Easy Mac]

good god, me and cam posted the exact same thing

[Ben E Lou]

Easy, the fact is that there are parts of our country that are very, very rural and very, very set in their ways. In the minds of many in Taylor County, there is no other way to be "fair" but to have two class presidents.

[KWhit]

Rural Georgia scares me.

[QuikSand]

Right. And those "minds" are fair cause for concern, and a fair target for scorn.

[John Galt]

I think we actually had a thread about this the previous year (when they decided to integrate).

I'm trying to do a search on the old board - do searches even work on the old board - it is taking forever.

It doesn't seem to work, so I'm trying the Way Back Machine. I can't find it there either.

Oh well, maybe someone else will have better luck digging it up. I think I posted on the thread and would be curious to hear what we said back then.

Anyway, this is very sad into today's world. Very, very sad.

[heybrad]

I'm going to have to agree with John Galt on this one.

*drops dead*

[John Galt]

dola, it looks like by the time I was done searching and posting, everyone said everything I was going to and Skydog even tried search. Carry on.

[Buzzbee]

Hey Brad!

[SplitPersonality1]

Could this be a thread in which we are all in agreement? (I hope so).

[Easy Mac]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Easy, the fact is that there are parts of our country that are very, very rural and very, very set in their ways. In the minds of many in Taylor County, there is no other way to be "fair" but to have two class presidents.

SD,
I've lived the past 13 years of my life in SC, basically my whole impressionable youth there, 8 spent in a rural town known as Chester. I know about how backward people are, people protested when a black man ran for mayor (and won, though supposedly he had dead people from his funeral home vote for him, but whatever).

That being said, the only way to be fair is to have mixed elections and let the kids decide. They're kids, they don't know enough to be racist, at least not all the time. There is a reason kids go to high school, its to keep adults out.

[WSUCougar]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
They're kids, they don't know enough to be racist, at least not all the time.

Whoops, I've got to throw a penalty flag on ya there, Easy. I strongly disagree with your statement.

"Unrealistic Idealism...5 yard penalty...on the defense...repeat the down."

[vex]

And I thought Oklahoma was messed up.

Ok, maybe it is

But definitely not this much.

[grdawg]

I was really shocked 7 yrs ago when I attended UGA, how closed-minded people were. It seems not much has changed in Georgia. It's never going to end, until the parents stop teaching this to their kids. I remember seeing a commercial where there are little black girls playing and they say to the white girl, come play with us and she goes coming, then her mother says to her, why don't you go play with the girls over there (the white ones) and she says why mommy? Well at least Georgia finally changed the state flag (about freaking time)

[vex]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
They're kids, they don't know enough to be racist, at least not all the time.

Uh, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, bigtime. It's not that difficult to be racist.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by SplitPersonality1
Could this be a thread in which we are all in agreement? (I hope so).

Despite what subtle or hidden prejudices some might have, I don't think anyone on the board is a out and out overt racist. I don't think this is a hard thing to get a consensus over. It's like getting people to agree that the sun will likely rise tomorrow or that drinking poision is hazardous to one's health.

SI

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by sterlingice
Despite what subtle or hidden prejudices some might have, I don't think anyone on the board is a out and out overt racist. I don't think this is a hard thing to get a consensus over. It's like getting people to agree that the sun will likely rise tomorrow or that drinking poision is hazardous to one's health.

SI

The sad thing is, there are apparently enough racists still around to allow something like this to happen in rural Georgia. You'd think this wouldn't be a hard thing to get a consensus over, but if were really that easy we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[detroit_fan]

Is this not illegal?

[Franklinnoble]

Ahh, the enlightened minds spawned in the land of "Deliverance."

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
The sad thing is, there are apparently enough racists still around to allow something like this to happen in rural Georgia. You'd think this wouldn't be a hard thing to get a consensus over, but if were really that easy we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Up until last year, the black kids apparently wanted it this way too. Which ones were racists then, the blacks, the whites, or both???

I think a lot of you are making some assumptions. From what I know of the racial climate in Taylor County, Georgia, you're making some very false ones.

[KWhit]

Originally posted by grdawg
Well at least Georgia finally changed the state flag (about freaking time)

Trying not to threadjack, but that issue isn't dead yet. The new mayor of GA used the flag issue as a plank in his platform while he campaign. The legislature is planning on a referendum on the ballot next year so that Georgians can vote on what the flag should be. As of right now it looks like the one with the confederate emblem on it will be a choice that can be voted for.

[Fritz]

I think this is a local issue and should be delt with at that level by the people involved.

[RonnieDobbs]

The thread being discussed is here.

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Up until last year, the black kids apparently wanted it this way too. Which ones were racists then, the blacks, the whites, or both???

I think a lot of you are making some assumptions. From what I know of the racial climate in Taylor County, Georgia, you're making some very false ones.

And this was the gist of our discussion last year. What if the blacks want to have their own prom or party or club, invite their own band? Would they allow whites to be invited? I certainly would hope so, just as I would if it was the other way around. But still, segregation will always exist because the jocks will hang out with other jocks, the band geeks will hang out with other bad geeks, the snobby white kids will hang out with their peers, the Christians will hang out with other Christians, the outcasts will just want to be left alone. The problem comes in when you unilaterally exclude anyone because of generalization and "rules of society" in knowing your social status.

[CamEdwards]

Skydog,

It becomes racist when the black students say "anybody's welcome to our prom" and the white students don't follow suit (or take the lead).

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
Skydog,

It becomes racist when the black students say "anybody's welcome to our prom" and the white students don't follow suit (or take the lead).

I hear ya Cam. I have a STRONG feeling, though, that what we're dealing with here is a case of minor (in their culture) insensitivity.

I also have to wonder if there is more to the story.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola--After reading through that thread, I'm even MORE glad that the wigs aren't around any more.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by detroit_fan
Is this not illegal?

It is a private party, not sponsored by the government.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by SplitPersonality1
Could this be a thread in which we are all in agreement? (I hope so).

*Leaves to start an "I Like Boobies" thread*

[JonInMiddleGA]

While I agree that this borders on the supremely stupid, my one argument might be that it's something that is unique.

Broadcasting HS football games each fall means I see more than my fair share of homecomings each year, and while it isn't always as blatant as the segregation in this case, there's a surprising number of schools where the homecoming royalty is composed of a black queen & a white queen. Over the past decade or so I seen that done openly, I've seen it renamed in some fashion to try to cover it up, but I'll see it at least about one of four Homecomings.

But here's the perhaps unexpected kicker -- the insistence on separate elections doesn't come from the white students or parents. In the situation I'm most familiar with, support for the separation comes strongly from black students & parents, in spite of the fact that the school is almost precisely 50-50 by race. The explanation, if you can get one at all, usually runs along the lines of "we've always had our queen & we intend to keep having our queen".

I know this is almost entirely anecdotal & proves diddly squat but I've scratched my head over this oddity for years now and it seemed at least remotely interesting regardless of relevance.

[albionmoonlight]

2 Quick points--

1.) It is easy to pick on Georgia/the South. I think that racists exist everywhere and good open minded people exist everywhere. Let's not get too caught up in "I'm glad I don't live in the rural South, which is worse than where I live." Everywhere can be improved.

2.) I think that the hardest segregation to fight (and "fight" is even the wrong term because it is more subtle than that) is that which happens naturally. At Emory's (keeping the Georgia theme) primary dining hall when I went there, there was a black section and an non-black section. The black section was a completely unofficial couple of rows of tables where the people sitting there were almost always all black. Sometimes a white person would sit in the black section and sometimes a black person would sit in the other section, but by and large the segregation was there and it was obvious.

No one forced this on us. And there was not even negative pressure (I never saw or heard of anyone being made to feel weird for sitting in the wrong section) to keep it that way. People, all acting as individuals, simply made their choice to sit where they wanted, and segregation naturally occurred.

A few sub-points (since I have already broken my promise to present a couple of "quick points.")

First, based on my experience at Emory and what I have learned at various race/voting symposia at law school--the racial divide in this country seems to be increasingly moving to black/non-black instead of white/non-white (i.e. Asians, Hispanics, and other minorities are assimilating into white culture). Any thoughts or observations on that fact? Do others agree?

Second, I do not think that the government should be in the business of (to stretch the metaphor) telling people where to sit in the cafeteria. I do, however, hope that one day we will live in a country where people--all choosing freely--sit together of their own free will.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
Skydog,

It becomes racist when the black students say "anybody's welcome to our prom" and the white students don't follow suit (or take the lead).

Slight correction Cam. It's not a "black" prom.

"Juniors" are in charge of planning the prom each year and last year they decided to have just one dance — the first integrated prom in 31 years in the rural Georgia county 150 miles south of Atlanta."

Not disagreeing that the white students choosing to have their own isn't racist, but wanted to make sure the facts were straight.

And I have to agree with SkyDog that there may be some assumptions that just aren't true.

Around here there are a lot of churches that have predominantly, if not totally white congregations. Likewise there are churches that are mostly, if not all black. It isn't because the white Christians don't want to worship with the blacks or vice versa. It is because the styles of worship are different.

I think there MAY be some parallels to the prom. One area where blacks and whites, especially whites in the rural South, are different is in music and dance. This may be stereotypical, but I imagine whites in rural Georgia and elsewhere tend to prefer country music or rock and roll. I would also imagine that blacks in rural areas probably don't listen to country or rock and roll. Like I said, probably stereotypical, but I don't think it is too much of a strecth. As a result, two different proms MIGHT actually make sense.

Just wanting to play devil's advocate and present a different viewpoint.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Up until last year, the black kids apparently wanted it this way too. Which ones were racists then, the blacks, the whites, or both???

I think a lot of you are making some assumptions. From what I know of the racial climate in Taylor County, Georgia, you're making some very false ones.

Thanks for raising that point Dog, it's one that I think is extremely important to remember (and connects pretty well to my homecoming anecdote)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Buzzbee -- the musical disparity was one of the reasons cited in some of the many articles about the Taylor County prom last year.

KWhit -- I know it's just a typo but in case anyone gets confused, that would be the Governor of Georgia, not the mayor.

And lest anyone make a mistake, the issue of the Georgia flag is far from over and isn't going to go away until it's put in the hands of the voters.

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by John Galt
dola, it looks like by the time I was done searching and posting, everyone said everything I was going to and Skydog even tried search. Carry on.

See what happened when we carried on? Great, now you're going to get John back in a lather (not leather, Fritz).

[Buzzbee]

To further illustrate points made by Jon and albion, while I was at Georgia Tech, a group of black students lobbied for, and eventually recieved funding for an "all-black" student newspaper, Onyx. The existing paper, The Technique wasn't racially segregated and didn't focus on "white" subjects. The black student population simply wanted a paper that focused on black issues (no pun intended) that was by black students. No racial motivation, just a cultural motivation.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
See what happened when we carried on? Great, now you're going to get John back in a lather (not leather, Fritz).

mmmmm John in leather or lathered...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Thanks for raising that point Dog, it's one that I think is extremely important to remember (and connects pretty well to my homecoming anecdote)

No prob. Don't forget, while you and I may disagree 100% on the Georgia flag, I know we agree 100% on this: no yankee has any business pointing fingers and getting involved in our fight!!!

(A side note: I'll bet that lots of Iraqis feel the same way about the USA that a lot of Southern black folks feel about non-Southern interference in our affairs: "Thanks for helping us get out of an oppressive situation, but now get out of our business. We'll handle it from here.")

[HornedFrog Purple]

Heh I am glad the backwater town I grew up in doesn't have a paper. Back in my boondocks there were 37 kids all black in my school period. There were two schools within reasonable distance one white and one black solely based on the rural communities around them.

I know from experience when you have generations of rural communites like that they tend to keep to their own. If this area in Georgia is anything like mine when I was a kid, this is a story blown out of proportion in my opinion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Eh, I think you're just country like that

At the risk of sounding as those we're talking in code about serious stuff, I think you've brought up another good point -- about not being able to fully understand a culture unless you've experienced it firsthand.

And IMO rural Taylor County has its own culture (or sub-culture if somebody prefers) just as Los Angeles has its own culture just as Tokyo has its own culture and so on.

And if (like the homecoming story) those of us who have spent our entire lives in that sub-culture occasionally scratch our heads at various customs, there's pretty good reason to believe that someone outside it can't quite fully grasp it either.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by SkyDog
No prob. Don't forget, while you and I may disagree 100% on the Georgia flag, I know we agree 100% on this: no yankee has any business pointing fingers and getting involved in our fight!!!

Skydog, do you think this issue should be open to all southerners? Do you think his should be open to everybody in Georgia?

My Virginia observation is that the more rural parts of the state are subjegated by the opinion of the urban areas, particuarly NoVa. The needs and values of "city folk" are often very different from the needs and values of "country folk." For this reason I like to see many issues left to the localities to work out.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Fritz
Skydog, do you think this issue should be open to all southerners? Do you think his should be open to everybody in Georgia?

My Virginia observation is that the more rural parts of the state are subjegated by the opinion of the urban areas, particuarly NoVa. The needs and values of "city folk" are often very different from the needs and values of "country folk." For this reason I like to see many issues left to the localities to work out.

Well, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek there of course (while there is an element of me believing EXACTLY what I posted there...) At any rate though, Jon, GrantDawg and I had this conversation the other night with regards to Georgia politics. There are definitely two Georgias: metro Atlanta, and the rest of the state. Most folks here in metro Atlanta would look at the segregated prom and two class presidents just like most folks in this thread are looking at it. (I'm originally from a smaller town in Georgia though, and am quite familiar with Taylor County High. They were one of only 5 schools in our SubRegion, so we played 'em a LOT!)

In Georgia, the tension between Atlanta and the rest of the state can be felt legislatively, but I don't get the sense that either side dominates the other. (The population of metro Atlanta is rougly equal to the population in the rest of the state.) Definitely there is a feeling of "those Atlanta folks can't tell us what to do" once you get about 40 miles from downtown in any direction.

[Senator]

Black vs White
Jews vs Arabs
Pepsi vs Coke
Dallas vs Washington
Dell vs Gateway
Irish Catholics vs Irish Protestants

It seems somewhere in the DNA of humans a gene is ingrained to make an US vs THEM in just about every way possible. Education seems to help, but on the flip side some of the most educated people I have known are the biggest bigots you ever have seen.

I wish I knew the answer, I really do.

[John Galt]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
First, based on my experience at Emory and what I have learned at various race/voting symposia at law school--the racial divide in this country seems to be increasingly moving to black/non-black instead of white/non-white (i.e. Asians, Hispanics, and other minorities are assimilating into white culture). Any thoughts or observations on that fact? Do others agree?

I think your analysis may be very regional and mistake certain types of integration with complete integration. Here in NYC, for example, there is still a heavy degree of Asian (especially Chinese) separatism. This in large part probably due to language and the continued vitality of Chinatown. In other places, however, the Asian communities are integrated in social and living situations. Similarly, ethnic enclaves of Hispanics exist in many areas whereas they are heavily integrated in others.

Also, black Americans often experience housing and school segration to a greater degree than other minorities (and school segragation is due almost entirely to housting segregation). The long term result is often social segregation. This doesn't mean other minorities don't experience different problems that aren't visible from a simple social view (ie Asians experiencing the problems of being "model minorities" or Hispanics struggling with English as the primary language in the US). I'm not really disagreeing with what you have said - I just think there are different types of integration that need to be accounted for.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Yeah but Cowboys vs. Redskins is WAR!

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Senator
Black vs White
Jews vs Arabs
Pepsi vs Coke
Dallas vs Washington
Dell vs Gateway
Irish Catholics vs Irish Protestants

spy vs spy

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Fritz
spy vs spy

ROFLMBAO!!!