MLB Trades thread

[Arles]

Figured we could keep it all to this thread.

New trades:

Yanks send Contreras and cash to the White Sox for Esteban Loaiza
Dodgers sent RP Tom Martin to the Braves for a minor league pitcher
Marlins send Abraham Nunez to the Royals for Rudy Seanez

Cubs got Nomar and LA got Finley. But no specifics on either.

[Danny]

Im curious to see who was given up for Nomar and Finley.

[Danny]

I also just read that Dave Roberts was traded to Boston for minor leaguers. Not sure how good the source is though.

[Vince]

Nomar deal is apparently a four-team affair.

[pennywisesb]

Why did the White Sox trade Loaiza for Contreras? Contreras sucks.

[Danny]

Yup, possibly including Matt Clement, Orlando Cabrera and Derek Lowe.

[MrBug708]

Cubs going to make their run this year huh? Nomar wants to come back to SoCal, so I don't see him resigning

Nice to see the Dodgers scraping their pen...

[Danny]

MrBug, Tom Martin is terrible. That should be addition by subtraction.

[General Mike]

Derek Lowe is a Twinkie according to FoxSports.com In related news Doug Mientkiwicz and Orlando Cabrera to Boston.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2626402

[Arles]

Marlins got Ismail Valdes from the Padres for Class A pitcher Travis Chick.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Arles

Marlins got Ismail Valdes from the Padres for Class A pitcher Travis Chick.

Wow, essentially giving up Brad Penny for Ishmael Valdez. Great move Marlins.

[MrBug708]

He;s an innings eater...

[Arles]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Wow, essentially giving up Brad Penny for Ishmael Valdez. Great move Marlins.

More like Penny and Choi for LoDuca, Valdes, Seanez, Encarnacion and Mota. When you figure they have Beckett coming off the DL as well, I don't see how anyone can say the Marlins are worse than they were two days ago.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

He;s an innings eater...

Brad Penny is an innings eater who also has a low career ERA.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Arles

More like Penny and Choi for LoDuca, Valdes, Seanez, Encarnacion and Mota. When you figure they have Beckett coming off the DL as well, I don't see how anyone can say the Marlins are worse than they were two days ago.

Its all about starting pitching, and they definately have downgraded in the last 2 days.

[Fouts]

I heard the dodgers dealt their prospect catcher for brent mayne, might be part of the Finley deal.

[Arles]

Valdes and Beckett for Penny is a downgrade?

[cschex]

Hey, at least Contreras has flashes of good pitching. Loiaza is done, and has been all year. This trade makes no sense for either team.

[Shaun Sullivan]

Gammons just said the Sox got Dave Roberts from the Dodgers. I don't mind picking up a little speed off the bench...

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Arles

Valdes and Beckett for Penny is a downgrade?

Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Burnett, and Penny is a much better rotation than, Becket, Willis (whichever one shows up for the game, good or bad), Pavano, Burnett, and Valdez (poor mans Chan Ho Park)

Edit: to show Burnett

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by cschex

Hey, at least Contreras has flashes of good pitching. Loiaza is done, and has been all year. This trade makes no sense for either team.

At least the Yankees got rid of Contreras' contract. I guess it really doesn't make a difference to them tho.

[Fouts]

what about AJ?

Edit: Burnett I meant, in the Marlins rotation.

Double Edit: you changed it.

[cschex]

Um yeah, Valdez isn't at all good, and he's had problems with blisters his entire career. For that matter, so has Beckett. I think banking on them both to stay healthy AND Lo Duca not to repeat his annual second-half swoon AND Encarnacion to not completely suck is asking a whole lot.

[Danny]

Arizona got Koyie Hill and Abercrombie from the Dodgers for FInley. Hill is a solid prospect, but Abercrombie isnt much of on as a 24 year old struggling at Vero Beach.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Burnett, and Penny is a much better rotation than, Becket, Willis (whichever one shows up for the game, good or bad), Pavano, Burnett, and Valdez (poor mans Chan Ho Park)

Edit: to show Burnett

Here's the thing. Beckett has been hurt, so him coming off the DL is like getting another pitcher in a deal. What would you rather have:

starting rotation of:

Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Burnett, and Penny

Plus

1B Choi

Or

Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Burnett and Valdez

PLUS

C LoDuca, RP Seanez, OF Encarnacion, RP Mota


I would glady swap out fifth starters to add guys like Mota and LoDuca.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by EagleEye11

Arizona got Koyie Hill and Abercrombie from the Dodgers for FInley. Hill is a solid prospect, but Abercrombie isnt much of on as a 24 year old struggling at Vero Beach.

What positions are Hill and Abercrombie?

[cschex]

Yeah but Penny wasn't the "5th starter." He was their second-best starter. The Bullpen is upgraded but the starting pitching is downgraded by a lot and the offense might be as well.

[Danny]

Encarnacion is a minus. Loduca will help unless he has another bad 2nd half like he normally does. Penny is better than Valdes. They would have gotten Becket back no matter what, so thats meaningless in the context of the trades. They also lost some good prospects.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Arles

Here's the thing. Beckett has been hurt, so him coming off the DL is like getting another pitcher in a deal. What would you rather have:

starting rotation of:

Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Burnett, and Penny

Plus

1B Choi

Or

Beckett, Willis, Pavano, Burnett and Valdez

PLUS

C LoDuca, RP Seanez, OF Encarnacion, RP Mota


I would glady swap out fifth starters to add guys like Mota and LoDuca.

You are assuming Penny is the 4th-5th starter. He was actually the #2 guy there, and for most of the year the #1 since Becket was hurt. Lo Duca is known for his second half swoon's while Encarnacion has been terrible this year.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by cschex

Yeah but Penny wasn't the "5th starter." He was their second-best starter. The Bullpen is upgraded but the starting pitching is downgraded by a lot and the offense might be as well.

I would put Pavano, Beckett and Willis above Penny. Penny to me is a nice No. 3, kind of like a Miguel Batista for the DBacks a few years back.

[Danny]

Only Pavano has a better ERA than Penny

[cschex]

Penny actually has the best track record of all four of those pitchers, as well as being consistantly good this year. He's much more than Batista (not a bad pitcher) with the D'Backs.

[Arles]

Florida's two catchers were hitting a combined .245 with 2 HRs and 25 RBI in 260 ABs. That's awful. Their setup guys had ERAs in the high 4s and 5s. Getting Mota and Lo Duca (enormous upgrades to both) and giving up a pitcher that probably wouldn't even pitch in the top 3 in a short series seems like a nice move to improve your team.

[Arles]

Do you guys really think that McKeon was going to sit Pavano, Beckett or Willis for Penny if the Marlins made the playoffs?

[cschex]

Don't forget the serious downgrade at 1B.

[cschex]

Maybe he wouldn't have, but Josh Beckett has yet to stay healthy for an extended period of time. For that matter, he hasn't been consistent when he has pitched. One stellar playoffs does not make a superstar. Willis has been very up-and-down this year as well.

They also actually have to MAKE the playoffs first, and I don't see how it's clear-cut that this put them in a better position to do so.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Arles

Do you guys really think that McKeon was going to sit Pavano, Beckett or Willis for Penny if the Marlins made the playoffs?

Why not run a four-man rotation?

[Danny]

Penny in last years WS was 2-0. Penny is really a much better pitcher than the overhyped Willis and he should be started over everyone except a healthy Beckett.

[Arles]

Double dola, Penny hasn't made it past the 6th inning since early June. And since late June, he's seen his ERA go up almost 50 points (2.65 to 3.13). Willis, on the other hand, had a 2.74 ERA in July and has seen his drop from 4.24 to 3.86 in that month.

It seems that Penny is starting to run out of steam right as Florida traded him.

[pennywisesb]

If a 3.15 ERA is running out of steam, I wish the entire A's staff was made up of Brad Penny's. WOW Arles, come on.

[Danny]

and yet Penny still have a much lower ERA than WIllis, more innings and a much better Whip and better K/BB ratio.

[pennywisesb]

Also, Lo Duca's power numbers are almost the same as the catchers the Marlins were using before the trade and his defense isn't an upgrade either. The only difference is his BA and OBP. So I wouldn't say "huge" upgrade.

[cschex]

I just want to re-iterate that I understand the Marlins' rationale for this deal. I just think it's a giant risk for them and also weakens their team in the long run.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

If a 3.15 ERA is running out of steam, I wish the entire A's staff was made up of Brad Penny's. WOW Arles, come on.

His ERA was at 2.12 going into June 1.

Here's Panny's last 6 starts:

5 IP, 9 H, 5 ER, 2 K, 3 BB
6 IP, 7 H, 5 ER, 1 K, 3 BB
6 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 5 K, 2 BB
5 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 1 K, 0 BB
6 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 K, 4 BB
5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 4 K, 1 BB

That's not all that great output for a top tier starter as some here are implying he is. If Penny's a legit top 2 guy in the rotation, he ought to be able to go more than 6 innings from time to time as well.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Derek Lowe is a Twinkie according to FoxSports.com In related news Doug Mientkiwicz and Orlando Cabrera to Boston.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2626402

foxsports is wrong, Derek lowe is not involved

[Danny]

The innings are a little low, but only two of those starts did he give up more than 2 ER. If that's what Penny's bad streaks are going to look like then I'll be very happy with him in LA.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Also, Lo Duca's power numbers are almost the same as the catchers the Marlins were using before the trade and his defense isn't an upgrade either. The only difference is his BA and OBP. So I wouldn't say "huge" upgrade.

LoDuca: .301, 10 HR, 49 RBI, .351 OBP, .795 OPS

Marlins catchers: .217, 5 HR, 32 RBI, .291 OBP, .318 OPS

If that's not a huge upgrade, I have no idea what is.

[Arles]

OK, here's the LA-AZ deal:

Dodgers get Finley and Brent Mayne

DBacks get C Koyie Hill, OF Reggie Abercrombie and SP Bill Murphy

Good deal for both ends. Giving up Werth would have been overpaying for a 40-year old FA in Finley, but Arizona got the good young pitching and catching prospect they were after for two guys that would be FAs at seasons end.

Plus, they didn't have to trade RJ to get them.

[cschex]

Encarnacion .235 13 HR, .289! OBP, .417 SLG

Choi .270 15 HR, .388 OBP, .495 SLG

I think it runs both ways

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Arles

That's not all that great output for a top tier starter as some here are implying he is. If Penny's a legit top 2 guy in the rotation, he ought to be able to go more than 6 innings from time to time as well.

First of all, its just a fact that he's been their #2 starter for most of this year which would put him in the top tier category apparently. Secondly, since earlier you said you'd rather have Dontrelle Willis instead of Penny, here are Willis' last 10 starts:

6/8 @CLE W 7-5 5.0 8 3 1 0 1 5 12 2 24 101 47 -- -- 3.51
6/13 @DET W 9-2 9.0 7 2 2 0 0 8 9 4 31 108 73 W(6-3) -- 3.33
6/19 TEX L 6-7 4.2 9 7 4 2 2 4 6 9 27 106 26 L(6-4) -- 3.58
6/24 ATL L 4-9 4.0 7 6 6 0 4 3 6 5 21 82 23 L(6-5) -- 4.03
6/29 @ATL W 5-4 4.1 9 4 4 1 1 1 11 6 22 74 29 -- -- 4.24
7/6 PIT W 6-3 6.0 5 1 1 1 3 3 12 4 26 104 58 -- -- 4.07
7/11 NYM W 5-2 6.1 6 2 2 0 1 7 7 8 26 110 59 W(7-5) -- 3.99
7/19 @NYM W 6-5 7.0 8 5 4 1 1 5 11 5 27 103 47 -- -- 4.07
7/24 @MON L 2-6 6.0 3 3 2 0 0 5 10 3 22 95 61 L(7-6) -- 4.01
7/29 PHI W 10-1 7.0 5 1 1 0 0 5 8 8 26 98 68 W(8-6) -- 3.86

Not exactly a model of consistency, at least Penny makes it to the 5th each start