Mike Williams Won't Be Playing for USC

[Franklinnoble]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1868537

Thursday, August 26, 2004





<>ESPN.com news services USC wide receiver Mike Williams told ESPN The Magazine's Bruce Feldman Thursday that the NCAA has refused his request for reinstatement.



When asked about his initial reaction to the rejection, Williams first said he is thankful to have a resolution. He added he felt bad for all the people who went through the long and complicated reinstatement process and for the people who supported him, including USC coach Pete Carroll.

Williams, who said he will work out with USC strength coach Chris Carlisle while attending classes for the next four months, will be eligible for the 2005 draft. He will be them minimum three years removed from high school.

The USC team was en route Thursday to the East Coast for Saturday night's game against Virginia Tech.

[VPI97]

I was hoping that he would get reinstated...although not until Sunday at the earliest.

[sabotai]

Let the flaming of the NCAA begin...

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Let the flaming of the NCAA begin...

Like they don't deserve it?

[Leonidas]

When they shut Bloom out at Colorado there was pretty much no way they could let Williams back in. I think Bloom is getting royally hosed, but I could take or leave the Williams decision. Both sides had good arguments on the Williams case.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Like they don't deserve it?

I didn't mean to give the impression that I don't think they deserve it. Whatever happens to them everywhere will not be enough punishment for this decision.

[RainRaven]

I think the NCAA held out on this decision long enough to help the NFL. Williams dropped his case againist the NFL in order to persue the reinstatement and the NCAA knew what it would do from the beginning, drag him along until a lawsuit would be unfestible for Williams persue. The NFL and the NCAA should be ashamed of themselves over their actions since they are great bedmates in the factory of college football players.

[cthomer5000]

I feel bad for Mike Williams, even if he did know there was some chance of this happening.

[MacroGuru]

We as fans of the game are being denied one of the better players of the game currently. He amazed me last season, especially when I watched them trounce BYU and some of the catches he made.

I was hoping to see him this year in Provo. Although as a Cougar fan, I am happy he won't be there, as a football fan, I am pretty disappointed in this decision.

[vex]

I'm with cthomer, I feel bad for him, but he knew this was a possibility.

[Huckleberry]

I'm not sure I feel all that sorry for him. He knew from the beginning this was an option. If the reason he wasn't allowed back was hiring an agent, then I feel no sympathy. If part of it was simply declaring for the draft, then I do have sympathy.

Regardless of the NCAA's general suckiness, by choosing to participate in the NCAA, you agree to follow their rules. If you don't like them, don't play.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RainRaven

I think the NCAA held out on this decision long enough to help the NFL. Williams dropped his case againist the NFL in order to persue the reinstatement and the NCAA knew what it would do from the beginning, drag him along until a lawsuit would be unfestible for Williams persue. The NFL and the NCAA should be ashamed of themselves over their actions since they are great bedmates in the factory of college football players.

I don't see where you can blame the NFL at all. They invited Mike Williams in the draft after the Clarett decision but told him of the risks and their intentions to pursue an appeal. They've been on the up-and-up the entire time. It was Williams' decision to hire an agent.

The NCAA is a bunch of moronic Nazis, if you ask me. It's like they are going out of their way to act like dickheads. The Bloom thing was just absurd.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Regardless of the NCAA's general suckiness, by choosing to participate in the NCAA, you agree to follow their rules. If you don't like them, don't play.

You may have just convinced me that maybe the NFL does indeed need a true minor league system instead of a hypocritical college one.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I'm not sure I feel all that sorry for him. He knew from the beginning this was an option. If the reason he wasn't allowed back was hiring an agent, then I feel no sympathy. If part of it was simply declaring for the draft, then I do have sympathy.

Regardless of the NCAA's general suckiness, by choosing to participate in the NCAA, you agree to follow their rules. If you don't like them, don't play.

What do you mean? He has played by their rules, an agent was hired when he was informed he could be eligible for the draft, and quite frankly, if you are going to be a top pick, you would be stupid for not hiring an agent.

The NCAA screwed him....and they have done it without a reach around

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I'm not sure I feel all that sorry for him. He knew from the beginning this was an option. If the reason he wasn't allowed back was hiring an agent, then I feel no sympathy. If part of it was simply declaring for the draft, then I do have sympathy.

Regardless of the NCAA's general suckiness, by choosing to participate in the NCAA, you agree to follow their rules. If you don't like them, don't play.

I generally agree with this statement, however some of the rules have set themselves up for interpretation which obviously are being challenged.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

What do you mean? He has played by their rules, an agent was hired when he was informed he could be eligible for the draft, and quite frankly, if you are going to be a top pick, you would be stupid for not hiring an agent.

The NCAA screwed him....and they have done it without a reach around

How did the NCAA screw him? It was the NFL who changed its rules briefly. The NCAA never changed theirs, which state that hiring an agent means the end of eligibility. I don't see how anybody can be blaming the NCAA - sure it's a terrible organization, but in this case the NCAA did nothing wrong.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I didn't mean to give the impression that I don't think they deserve it. Whatever happens to them everywhere will not be enough punishment for this decision.

Agreed. the NCAA is a legal monopoly that screws over every one of its atheletes- what a wonderful organization.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

How did the NCAA screw him? It was the NFL who changed its rules briefly. The NCAA never changed theirs, which state that hiring an agent means the end of eligibility. I don't see how anybody can be blaming the NCAA - sure it's a terrible organization, but in this case the NCAA did nothing wrong.

The NFL didn't change their rules - at least not willingly. They were under a court order to change their rules and made it very clear that they:

1. Did not like the ruling
2. Would be appealing the ruling (which they won)

The NFL is blameless on this one.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

The NFL didn't change their rules - at least not willingly. They were under a court order to change their rules and made it very clear that they:

1. Did not like the ruling
2. Would be appealing the ruling (which they won)

The NFL is blameless on this one.

So what did the NCAA do to shoulder the blame?

[sabotai]

If I was an Arena Football general manager, i'd be calling Williams up pronto. Any AFL team would be nuts to not want him on their team.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I'm not sure I feel all that sorry for him. He knew from the beginning this was an option. If the reason he wasn't allowed back was hiring an agent, then I feel no sympathy. If part of it was simply declaring for the draft, then I do have sympathy.

Regardless of the NCAA's general suckiness, by choosing to participate in the NCAA, you agree to follow their rules. If you don't like them, don't play.

Because there are a lot of other options for an athlete (especially one with ambitions of going professional)? If the NCAA required every college athlete to pay $10,000 for the privilege would that be ok too? How about if they require every athlete to prostitute themselves to raise money? Sometimes monopolies abuse their power. Eventually (hopefully) those monopolies collapse (often from those abuses), but does that make the abuse any less? To say that you have choice to not play hides the fact that the monopoly too is responsible for its conduct. At some point the NCAA goes too far. Where that line is is a matter of debate, but "If you don't like them, don't play" seems for a discussion about an organization with a lot of power.

[bigdawg2003]

So where does Mike Williams go in the draft next year. Is he still a top 10 pick?

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by sabotai

You may have just convinced me that maybe the NFL does indeed need a true minor league system instead of a hypocritical college one.

I've been saying this for years.

This is why there are no NCAA baseball scandals. Because if the athletes wanna get paid to play, they just join a minor league team.

[mh2365]

I didn't like the Bloom decision, but the Williams one? He knew there was a chance, even if slim that he wouldn't be allowed to enter the draft. The smart thing would have been to declare himself eligible, not hire an agent and take ZERO money from anyone until it was 100%. But I guess no one ever accused Williams of being smart. Not only did he hire an agent. But then he took butt loads of money from him and took his family and entourage on a trip to the Bahama's on the agent's dime.

How could he have paid that back in order to be re-instated? The obvious answer is he couldn't and that is why he wasn't re-instated. Williams was warned every single step of the way, he ignored the warnings and has no one to blame but himself.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2003

So where does Mike Williams go in the draft next year. Is he still a top 10 pick?

Depends on how he does at the combine. Not playing a year might scare off some teams, but if he shows that he is in excellent shape and hasn't lost any ability, I'd say he's a lock for the top 10, good chance for the top 5 depending on which teams pick first.

[Tigercat]

The NCAA should be consistent before all else, for that reason I think this was the right decision.

I seriously question the NCAA's policy on th is sort of thing, but I would rather them be consistent with a bad policy than just arbitrarily deciding to go against it. It wouldn't be fair to the other athletes that have been in eligibility situations.

[Noop]

I can't wait till Virgina Tech takes on USC... Go Reggie Bush

[cthomer5000]

It certainly hurts his draft position. I think if his workout numbers are solid, he's a mid-to-low first round pick.

[Arles]

Given the amount of money Williams took from his agent, not to mention the fact that he hired an agent, I don't see how the NCAA could have allowed him to play. As was stated here earlier, Williams knew the decision by the NFL would be contested and it may not stand. So, why not wait a month before hiring your agent or spending his money? Had Williams not had an agent during the week prior to the draft when the decision was announced, he could have simply pulled out and enrolled back in school. But, he took a gamble to get some fast money and lost.

Not that it matters though, he will still be top 10 in 2005 and doesn't have to worry about injuries.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by sabotai

If I was an Arena Football general manager, i'd be calling Williams up pronto. Any AFL team would be nuts to not want him on their team.

Williams would have to be certifiably insane to play Arena Football.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Williams would have to be certifiably insane to play Arena Football.

But would you, as an Arena Football general manager, let that stop you from trying? (BTW, why?)

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

It certainly hurts his draft position. I think if his workout numbers are solid, he's a mid-to-low first round pick.

San Diego takes him with the Giants' 1st rounder.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by General Mike

San Diego takes him with the Giants' 1st rounder.

THAT'S NOT FUNNY!!!

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by sabotai

But would you, as an Arena Football general manager, let that stop you from trying? (BTW, why?)

The ratio of risk of injury to money earned is not in his favor. Better to wait.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by sabotai

But would you, as an Arena Football general manager, let that stop you from trying? (BTW, why?)

Would you risk 10s of Millions for 10K a week? I didn't think so.

[sabotai]

In college, he'd be getting 0k a week and there's just as much, if not more, of a chance of injury.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

How did the NCAA screw him? It was the NFL who changed its rules briefly. The NCAA never changed theirs, which state that hiring an agent means the end of eligibility. I don't see how anybody can be blaming the NCAA - sure it's a terrible organization, but in this case the NCAA did nothing wrong.

Actually you are quite right...it's hard to feel good about the NCAA, I feel they screwed him because he did what he was supposed to, to be reinstated, including paying the money back, and getting his grades back into compliance.

My apologies for saying the NCAA Screwed him.

Williams would be smart now to keep himself in football/game shape. Their is a paramount difference between practice and game...I would be making an offer at the AFL, and for Williams, he would be the best receiver ever in that game. He has the height to up and get the ball off the net, it keeps him in shape.

The boards are fine and don't hurt that bad when you get hit into them. The only issue I would have is the turf. I had permanent rug burn on the knees and elbows (Joke it up here) from when I played Arena Ball (Semi-Pro not Pro, same rules, same field). I would be worried about it blowing the knees, other than that, it's ok.

Williams would tear it up.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Noop

I can't wait till Virgina Tech takes on USC... Go Reggie Bush

Are you going to be rooting for USC? I figured you'd root for VT

[Noop]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Are you going to be rooting for USC? I figured you'd root for VT

Well I am not rooting for USC but I am just expecting to see Reggie Bush dazzle But I root for V.Tech because your in the ACC and we are now fam...

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by sabotai

In college, he'd be getting 0k a week and there's just as much, if not more, of a chance of injury.

Which is why it is foolish for certain players to continue to play in college. If another underclassman quit after his freshman year (with 1st round ability) and waited to be drafted, his quitting would be held against him as a "character" issue. Williams gets the best situation in terms of sitting out - he isn't a quitter and he will still get 1st round money - why risk that?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Williams gets the best situation in terms of sitting out - he isn't a quitter and he will still get 1st round money - why risk that?

McGahee got first round money.

I can see it from that point of view, that as a player I might decide not to risk it and take my chances that not playing a year won't hurt my drafted position. I'm just saying as an AFL GM, in a game that seems to have trouble selling tickets in some places, I'm all over that. He'd probably dominate the arena game (and sell out arenas) which could make him go up high. It is a risk-reward situation which I could see either way.

[Franklinnoble]

Williams will just sit out.

Playing in the AFL or CFL can't help him... it can only hurt him. He's already a top-10 pick... he's not going any higher...

[Vince]

Anyone else really impressed by his reaction?

``I'm glad it's over. Now the team can move forward and I can move forward,'' Williams said by phone. ``I'm disappointed. I did everything asked of me. I don't know yet what I'm going to do. I'll just relax for the weekend and watch the game and root for my team.''

I think that's a pretty mature, reasoned answer for a college athlete these days.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Because there are a lot of other options for an athlete (especially one with ambitions of going professional)? If the NCAA required every college athlete to pay $10,000 for the privilege would that be ok too? How about if they require every athlete to prostitute themselves to raise money? Sometimes monopolies abuse their power. Eventually (hopefully) those monopolies collapse (often from those abuses), but does that make the abuse any less? To say that you have choice to not play hides the fact that the monopoly too is responsible for its conduct. At some point the NCAA goes too far. Where that line is is a matter of debate, but "If you don't like them, don't play" seems for a discussion about an organization with a lot of power.

Yes, they're a monopoly at this point, but they are not an illegal monopoly precisely because nobody has come around to challenge them. If the NFL were to start a minor league, the NCAA would lose everything when it came to football. The top high school players would clearly go to the minor league to be paid, maybe not at first but the exodus would obviously happen.

Look, I think the NCAA sucks donkey balls just like everyone else. But if you don't want to play by an organization's rules, don't join. It really is that simple. Yes it absolutely sucks for the kids. But as of right now, if NCAA football shut down tomorrow, they wouldn't have anywhere to play. Why don't we all volunteer and organize the kids and create a FTYOFL (First Three Years Out Football League) for athletes within 3 years of their high school classes' graduation. Convince the best players to play there instead of college because they'll be paid, the competition will be just as good if not better, they don't have to worry about NCAA rules, and if they don't make it to the NFL they will have been paid enough money to pay for college. Give them guaranteed 3 year contracts at at least $50K per year.

Hell, just threatening this would suit me just fine. I love college football, absolutely love it. My finest wish is that the NCAA changes its ways. That or the top schools break their football programs away from it. Hell, the Top 64 programs could just come together and implement my proposal.

[sooner333]

From what I heard in the rumor mill is that part of the decision is because of academics in the spring semester. Now, many players around the nation lose eligibility because of this and I don't think his "special situation" should have counted in his favor on academics. However, the NCAA hasn't responded, and we've only heard the Williams (classy) and Carroll (mad) angle of the story.

As for his issue with the agent. He broke the rules, plain and simple. Now, if he was allowed to play, I guess I could deal with that because of the lawsuit, but I'm not crying for him because he's not playing. Basically any time there is a lawsuit, it is eligible to be appealed...he could have kept that in mind. In fact, the NFL was not too happy with the decision, and he should have KNOWN it was going to be appealed.

He is an amazing player and an amazing athlete, but let's not kid ourselves...this is amateur athletics that are played while attending class. If both of those criteria aren't met, then it really isn't college football. Maybe minor league football would be better, but I don't think it could possibly generate the excitement of college football because NCAA football is a primary sport in many places around the country (Oklahoma, Austin, etc.).

[sooner333]

Dola:

(Six-Hour Rule) This is a new rule that was passed last year that an athlete must pass six (credits) in the semester preceding the competition season (not including summer sessions) to be eligible for competition. This was the first year that this was instituted and this is the key issue in Mike's case. He has enough units, he has the grade point average, but he was not enrolled in the spring.

That was from the USC website from Carroll's press conference.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Vince

Anyone else really impressed by his reaction?

``I'm glad it's over. Now the team can move forward and I can move forward,'' Williams said by phone. ``I'm disappointed. I did everything asked of me. I don't know yet what I'm going to do. I'll just relax for the weekend and watch the game and root for my team.''

I think that's a pretty mature, reasoned answer for a college athlete these days.

I agree completely Vince. If it was one of the other athletes these days (such as every athlete to ever play for Miami ) they would probably go on a long rant or something and blame everyone but themselves. I think he handled the decision in a very professional manner. I must say, however, that I would expect nothing less out of an athlete who played for the classiest football organization in the Pac-10

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Dola:

(Six-Hour Rule) This is a new rule that was passed last year that an athlete must pass six (credits) in the semester preceding the competition season (not including summer sessions) to be eligible for competition. This was the first year that this was instituted and this is the key issue in Mike's case. He has enough units, he has the grade point average, but he was not enrolled in the spring.

That was from the USC website from Carroll's press conference.

Sooner, wasn't he enrolled in summer school? why didn't those units count?

[Huckleberry]

Probably because of the (not including summer sessions) part.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Probably because of the (not including summer sessions) part.

Haha, yeah, my bad, I must have conveniently skipped that section due to my pro-Mike Williams bias.