OT - Wal-Mart did something slimy? no

[Flasch186]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...art_grand_jury

God forbid their employees unionize and force them to pay decent wages. Did you know that on many of their employment applications they had placed phone numbers and addresses of where the employee could find Federal subsidees and help, including food stamps. How slimy is that....knowing that youre paying below living wage and do that. Well you know my slant so, whatever.






Grand Jury Meeting Over Wal-Mart Expenses

56 minutes ago

Add to My Yahoo! Business - AP

By CHUCK BARTELS, Associated Press Writer

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - A federal grand jury is reviewing allegations of misspending within Wal-Mart Stores Inc., an investigation the world's largest retailer spurred when it handed over internal documents to the Justice Department, a company spokesman said.

Wal-Mart spokesman Marty Heires told The Associated Press on Friday that the company is limited in what it can say about the inquiry because the probe is being handled by a grand jury.

"We have committed fully to cooperate with the federal authorities, and we're doing that," Heires said.

At the center of the investigation is an allegation that former vice chairman Tom Coughlin, who was the No. 2 figure in Wal-Mart's hierarchy before his retirement last year, misspent up to $500,000, some of it allegedly for anti-union activity.

Coughlin, through his attorney, has denied wrongdoing.

On Friday, Coughlin attorney William Taylor in Washington, D.C., would not discuss the investigation. U.S. Attorney Bob Balfe's spokesman William Cromwell in Fort Smith would not comment Friday.

Wal-Mart has strongly denied anti-union spending.

Coughlin was on Wal-Mart's board until March 25, when he resigned as the company revealed in filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that it had forwarded to federal prosecutors information on alleged improper spending. Last week, in another filing, Wal-Mart disclosed that it suspended Coughlin's benefits, potentially costing him $9.8 million in stock options.

Heires would not say whether documents or Wal-Mart employees have been subpoenaed by the grand jury. He said he did not know how long the panel has been reviewing the Wal-Mart case.

Accusations that Coughlin engaged in spending to combat union organization prompted the United Food and Commercial Workers Union to file claims of unfair labor practices. The complaint, citing a report in The Wall Street Journal, alleged Coughlin used expense account reimbursements to make secret payments to union members willing to identify pro-union Wal-Mart workers.

Coughlin's attorney has demanded that Wal-Mart provide him with documents it has provided to prosecutors so he can defend his client.

Wal-Mart shares fell 44 cents to $47.34 in midday trading on the New York Stock Exchange. The shares have traded between $47.18 and $59.15 over the past 52 weeks.

[Franklinnoble]

If you don't like it, don't work there. McDonald's is always hiring.

[Desnudo]

Flasch posted an anti-big business thread? No.

[sooner333]

Who do you think is going to pay for the increased wages...I'm sure it's not going to be Wal-Mart or their shareholders. It's going to be everyone who shops there, including their workers.

[AENeuman]

Would the "passed on" cost to customers be more than the current cost "passed on" to non-customers?
I could care less customers have to pay more for the latest and greatest if it means my county and state dole out less of my money.
If this is a free-market argument then one can't rely on government aid to sustain their employee infrastucture.

[tategter]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

If you don't like it, don't work there. McDonald's is always hiring.

What he said. Walmart doesn't hold the monopoly on jobs for the working poor.

Walmart + Union = really bad idea

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by tategter

What he said. Walmart doesn't hold the monopoly on jobs for the working poor.

Walmart + Union = really bad idea

Wrong. The union would be a great idea. Walmart likes to move into smaller communities and drive out all of the local businesses. They can do this by paying their employees crap and by not providing benefits. Since they drove out all of the local businesses, they become the biggest employer in the area. Basically Walmart brings down the wealth of a community and transports it all to China where they get much of their products.

They also hold down income to their suppliers because the demand lower than competitive prices from the suppliers. The suppliers can't say no because Walmart is a big enough account to keep struggling suppliers in business.

Walmart + Union = a great idea. Make them actually compete with other businesses and let a community keep their wealth.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Wrong. The union would be a great idea. Walmart likes to move into smaller communities and drive out all of the local businesses. They can do this by paying their employees crap and by not providing benefits. Since they drove out all of the local businesses, they become the biggest employer in the area. Basically Walmart brings down the wealth of a community and transports it all to China where they get much of their products.

They also hold down income to their suppliers because the demand lower than competitive prices from the suppliers. The suppliers can't say no because Walmart is a big enough account to keep struggling suppliers in business.

Walmart + Union = a great idea. Make them actually compete with other businesses and let a community keep their wealth.

Welcome to the world of business. Last time I check, Wal-Mart has the right to compete. Wouldn't Wal-Mart increase income to their suppliers, because they buy more in total sales. Wal-Mart does get better cost of good prices, but that is because they buy more. Got news for you, pretty much everything is made in China and all those countries. Nike charges a big bucks for their products, but it's all made abroad. I don't see anyone creating a fuss over that.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Wrong. The union would be a great idea. Walmart likes to move into smaller communities and drive out all of the local businesses. They can do this by paying their employees crap and by not providing benefits. Since they drove out all of the local businesses, they become the biggest employer in the area. Basically Walmart brings down the wealth of a community and transports it all to China where they get much of their products.

They also hold down income to their suppliers because the demand lower than competitive prices from the suppliers. The suppliers can't say no because Walmart is a big enough account to keep struggling suppliers in business.

Walmart + Union = a great idea. Make them actually compete with other businesses and let a community keep their wealth.

BINGO

Drive the wealth in the area down and then act underhandedly whent he community tries to unionize to keep some of the wealth OR we have to use tax dollars to subsidize their employees because they pay under the "living wage"...Republicans cant have it both ways, lower taxes AND lower the wages or else you force the poor to be even more poor AND try to cut their help programs.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Welcome to the world of business. Last time I check, Wal-Mart has the right to compete. Wouldn't Wal-Mart increase income to their suppliers, because they buy more in total sales. The reason that goods are cheaper is because they are made in China, ect. Got news for you, pretty much everything is made in China, Taiwain, ect. Nike charges a big bucks for their products, but it's all made abroad.

according to the article theyre not competing fairly. They acted to keep their employees from unionizing.

[timmynausea]

This is exactly what caused the great depression. Cut everyone's wages until the middle class has no buying power and nobody can buy cars or dishwashers or etc. Look at the trends over the past 25 years. Corporate profits have been at record highs and worker's wages have stagnated when you factor in inflation.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Welcome to the world of business. Last time I check, Wal-Mart has the right to compete. Wouldn't Wal-Mart increase income to their suppliers, because they buy more in total sales. Wal-Mart does get better cost of good prices, but that is because they buy more. Got news for you, pretty much everything is made in China and all those countries. Nike charges a big bucks for their products, but it's all made abroad. I don't see anyone creating a fuss over that.

That's just wrong all over the place. Walmart doesn't get better costs because they buy more. They get better costs because they tell the suppliers what they will pay. The suppliers don't set the prices, Walmart does. They can get away with it because they are big. They became big by exploiting their workers. This is why unions came into existence.

The big argument isn't about where they get their goods, it is what they do to their employees and the communities they exist in.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

according to the article theyre not competing fairly. They acted to keep their employees from unionizing.

According to the article, the grand jury is REVIEWING ALLEGATIONS that Walmart is not competing fairly and funding anti-union activity. Walmart hasn't even been charged with anything yet.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Flasch posted an anti-big business thread? No.

More like Flasch posted an anti-business thread for an article reporting on allegations, not any convictions, of wrong doing.

Move along, nothing to see here.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by BrianD

That's just wrong all over the place. Walmart doesn't get better costs because they buy more. They get better costs because they tell the suppliers what they will pay. The suppliers don't set the prices, Walmart does. They can get away with it because they are big. They became big by exploiting their workers. This is why unions came into existence.

The big argument isn't about where they get their goods, it is what they do to their employees and the communities they exist in.

Companies (and even consumers) buy goods in bulk, which they can get products at lower costs per product. As for unions, they haven't been very good for businesses. Look at the airline and automaker industries.

[sovereignstar]

Wal-Mart could hand out free cookies 24-7 and I'd still fucking hate them. I don't know how anyone can refrain from getting sick when the company's name is even mentioned.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Wal-Mart could hand out free cookies 24-7 and I'd still fucking hate them. I don't know how anyone can refrain from getting sick when the company's name is even mentioned.

Why is it everyone that hates Wal-Mart, but yet they are the nation's (and world?) largest company?

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

If you don't like it, don't work there. McDonald's is always hiring.

Yeah, but McDonalds is the most anti-union corporation in the world. Their tactics are second to none.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Companies (and even consumers) buy goods in bulk, which they can get products at lower costs per product. As for unions, they haven't been very good for businesses. Look at the airline and automaker industries.

I understand the cost benefits of buying in bulk. That isn't an issue here because that isn't what Walmart does. Have you ever talked to anyone involved in purchasing for Walmart, or have you ever talked to anyone in a supplying company? I'm going to guess not because you wouldn't be making this argument if you had. Walmart dictates the prices they will pay to their suppliers.

Unions don't exist to do good for businesses. They exist to protect the workers. I'm generally not a fan of unions because they allow workers to be lazy and generally only do good for themselves, but they have done plenty of good in the past, like greatly improving safety conditions in the airline and automaking industries. Since Walmart doesn't seem to care about their employees, a union would help.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by George W Bush

Yeah, but McDonalds is the most anti-union corporation in the world. Their tactics are second to none.

High School/college students are big workers at McDonald's. Not much strength to unionize on.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why is it everyone that hates Wal-Mart, but yet they are the nation's (and world?) largest company?

Because they are cheap and convenient...and they are good at driving away competition.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Why is it everyone that hates Wal-Mart, but yet they are the nation's (and world?) largest company?

Do you mind if I ask where you are from?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Do you mind if I ask where you are from?

Why does that matter?

[Franklinnoble]

Hey, half my frickin' industry has been outsourced to India in the last few years, and I'm not crying about it. If that's what it takes for the company to be competitive, better that than no company at all. I'll take my lumps, polish my resume, and just do better at competing with the rest of the poor IT bastards out there.

Wal-Mart sells lots of cheap merchandise. That saves me money. Period.

This is the same reason why Japanese automakers are putting Ford and GM out of business - no socialist unions/pensions to contend with. Cheaper, better cars. What would I buy? Whatever's best for my family.

Anyone who disagrees with me is a pinko socialist. There. Hah.

[dawgfan]

I hate Wal-Mart with a vengeance due to how they treat their employees, the damage they do to local retailers and various other reasons.

In stark contrast to Wal-Mart is Costco, the Issaquah, Washington-based warehouse-style retailer that has done remarkably well as a business yet treats their employees orders of magnitude better than Wal-Mart.

It is possible to run a very successful retailing business while also providing your employees with a good wage and great benefits.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

According to the article, the grand jury is REVIEWING ALLEGATIONS that Walmart is not competing fairly and funding anti-union activity. Walmart hasn't even been charged with anything yet.

Watch what happens Ill bet you $25 it goes further. Do you not see the linkage between this and all of the other scandals as well......In the business world, ethics are scarce and you, me, and us all MUST hold them to higher standards. you want the bet? It's always the same thing. The grand jury will find cause.

[KWhit]

Unions are just as underhanded as the big corporations. Usually moreso.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I hate Wal-Mart with a vengeance due to how they treat their employees, the damage they do to local retailers and various other reasons.

In stark contrast to Wal-Mart is Costco, the Issaquah, Washington-based warehouse-style retailer that has done remarkably well as a business yet treats their employees orders of magnitude better than Wal-Mart.

It is possible to run a very successful retailing business while also providing your employees with a good wage and great benefits.

Same thing with the big health food store (forgot the name)...treat their employees great and theyre booming.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Watch what happens Ill bet you $25 it goes further. Do you not see the linkage between this and all of the other scandals as well......In the business world, ethics are scarce and you, me, and us all MUST hold them to higher standards. you want the bet? It's always the same thing. The grand jury will find cause.

I thought in this country innocence is presumed until guilt is proved? Or does that not apply to corporations?

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Wal-Mart sells lots of cheap merchandise. That saves me money. Period.

But you are not saving money. The price you pay for cheap merchandise is higher taxes to pay for the social services Walmart expects their employees to qualify for.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

But you are not saving money. The price you pay for cheap merchandise is higher taxes to pay for the social services Walmart expects their employees to qualify for.

I'm no fan of Wal Mart, but what would they have to do to appease their critics?

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm no fan of Wal Mart, but what would they have to do to appease their critics?

Walmart is not the lone bad wolf. Walmart has taken advantage of city planners and local welfare systems, both of those things need to change too. BUT, there are lots of big, successful retail companies that don't drain the community like Walmart does, reguardless of being in a union.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

But you are not saving money. The price you pay for cheap merchandise is higher taxes to pay for the social services Walmart expects their employees to qualify for.

Bah. I have a wife and three kids at home. My tax bill is pretty manageable.

Like I said, if you don't like it, work somewhere else. This is America... nobody should think of Wal-Mart (or McDonalds or any other minimum wage job) as anything more than a short-term job until they can build a career doing something better.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Like I said, if you don't like it, work somewhere else. This is America... nobody should think of Wal-Mart (or McDonalds or any other minimum wage job) as anything more than a short-term job until they can build a career doing something better.

Yeah - they should work at Costco where they make a pretty good wage and still save a lot of money on shopping.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Bah. I have a wife and three kids at home. My tax bill is pretty manageable.

I admire your apathy.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

BINGO

Drive the wealth in the area down and then act underhandedly whent he community tries to unionize to keep some of the wealth OR we have to use tax dollars to subsidize their employees because they pay under the "living wage"...Republicans cant have it both ways, lower taxes AND lower the wages or else you force the poor to be even more poor AND try to cut their help programs.

ding ding ding!!!! We have reached the flasch obligatory Republican rip. Who had post 9 in the pool? Claim your prize.

How about showing us some examples of Wal-Mart driving all other businesses away and causing some sort of third world area? Every time that I have seen one go up, a boom of other new businesses has followed.

Oh well, I guess if the only way to make the point is by crying wolf...

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I admire your apathy.

You got it. Wait until I get a break for my home loan interest... those slackers living off the government cheese aren't getting a damned thing from me.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Yeah - they should work at Costco where they make a pretty good wage and still save a lot of money on shopping.

I've seen some fine looking women working at Costco. They must be doing something to attrct the hotties...

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Wal-Mart has strongly denied anti-union spending.

Coughlin was on Wal-Mart's board until March 25, when he resigned as the company revealed in filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that it had forwarded to federal prosecutors information on alleged improper spending. Last week, in another filing, Wal-Mart disclosed that it suspended Coughlin's benefits, potentially costing him $9.8 million in stock options.

He no longer works for Wal-Mart. He resigned, it would seem to me under pressure from the company. Furthermore, Wal-Mart suspended his benefits because of the POTENTIAL that he did something wrong. Seems like the company is doing what it should in this situation.

Accusations that Coughlin engaged in spending to combat union organization prompted the United Food and Commercial Workers Union to file claims of unfair labor practices. The complaint, citing a report in The Wall Street Journal, alleged Coughlin used expense account reimbursements to make secret payments to union members willing to identify pro-union Wal-Mart workers.

Not sure, but if those were business expenses that he incurred, such as the cost of plane tickets or meals or what not, then wasn't he *allegedly* making secret payments out of his own pocket? Seems Wal-Mart isn't the one who might have done wrong.

[RendeR]

The fact is, if wal-mart unionizes wal-mart closes up shop and folds. It cannot support its supply structure if it has to increase its payroll 400%.

Wal-mart pays what law requires it to pay, minimum wage and higher. If people do not wish to work for that little, they need to go after better jobs.

Blaming Wal-Mart for the poor's lot is a bit short sighted. yes I wish they'd pay more too, but then again, you don't see Mcdonald's and Pizza Hut paying more either, and I think food service people work harder than wal-mart employees. (and yes I have experience with this, I worked at wally world for a year)

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

But you are not saving money. The price you pay for cheap merchandise is higher taxes to pay for the social services Walmart expects their employees to qualify for.

Then get rid of the 'social services'. Problem solved.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The fact is, if wal-mart unionizes wal-mart closes up shop and folds. It cannot support its supply structure if it has to increase its payroll 400%.

That's an absurd estimate of what unionization might cost Walmart.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I understand the cost benefits of buying in bulk. That isn't an issue here because that isn't what Walmart does. Have you ever talked to anyone involved in purchasing for Walmart, or have you ever talked to anyone in a supplying company? I'm going to guess not because you wouldn't be making this argument if you had. Walmart dictates the prices they will pay to their suppliers.

Unions don't exist to do good for businesses. They exist to protect the workers. I'm generally not a fan of unions because they allow workers to be lazy and generally only do good for themselves, but they have done plenty of good in the past, like greatly improving safety conditions in the airline and automaking industries. Since Walmart doesn't seem to care about their employees, a union would help.

"Walmart dictates the prices they will pay to their suppliers." Please explain how Wal-Mart does this. It seems to me that if I was Wal-Mart and I could truly dictate the prices I paid for goods, I'd be getting them for free. They are able to negotiate lower prices because they command such a huge portion of the marketplace and can buy in tremendous quantities.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by BrianD

That's just wrong all over the place. Walmart doesn't get better costs because they buy more. They get better costs because they tell the suppliers what they will pay. The suppliers don't set the prices, Walmart does. They can get away with it because they are big. They became big by exploiting their workers. This is why unions came into existence.

The big argument isn't about where they get their goods, it is what they do to their employees and the communities they exist in.

You contradicted your own statement. They don't get better prices because the buy more. But yet they get away with 'setting' the prices because they are big.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

You contradicted your own statement. They don't get better prices because the buy more. But yet they get away with 'setting' the prices because they are big.

Walmart also is one of the few companies that passes on savings to the customer; because of their cutthroat competitive nature (and because their customers tend to value their dollars more than normal), whenever they can, they reduce their rates. This *does* have a social benefit.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I understand the cost benefits of buying in bulk. That isn't an issue here because that isn't what Walmart does. Have you ever talked to anyone involved in purchasing for Walmart, or have you ever talked to anyone in a supplying company? I'm going to guess not because you wouldn't be making this argument if you had. Walmart dictates the prices they will pay to their suppliers.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

according to the article theyre not competing fairly. They acted to keep their employees from unionizing.

WRONG. "They" didn't. One executive did, who no longer works at Wal-Mart who I contend resigned under pressure for his actions.

Now, if it can be proven that these payments were not the act of one executive but were in effect corporate efforts, then I'll support you 100% on this one. Based on the information presented in the article it doesn't appear that way to me.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Walmart also is one of the few companies that passes on savings to the customer; because of their cutthroat competitive nature (and because their customers tend to value their dollars more than normal), whenever they can, they reduce their rates. This *does* have a social benefit.

The question is if the lower cost benefit to the consumer is worth all of the other factors that go into creating that lower cost.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I've seen some fine looking women working at Costco. They must be doing something to attrct the hotties...

I concur. Costco has some incredibly hot chicks working there.

Maybe Wal-Mart is just staffed by the disgrutled, bitter fatties that couldn't get jobs at Costco...

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by BrianD

They can do this by paying their employees crap and by not providing benefits.

AHA!!! I've finally figured it out. I now KNOW why the lines at Wal-Mart are so long. No one wants to work there so they don't have enough check out people. Therefore the long lines. Glad you helped me with that one. Seriously. I HATE the long lines and don't shop there on weekends as a result.

They also hold down income to their suppliers because the demand lower than competitive prices from the suppliers. The suppliers can't say no because Walmart is a big enough account to keep struggling suppliers in business.

So, size DOES matter. Buying in bulk DOES make a difference.

There you go again. Making my argument for me.

Walmart + Union = a great idea. Make them actually compete with other businesses and let a community keep their wealth.

Ummm...make them compete? Isn't that what they are doing? Very well it would seem since they drive out other businesses. Wouldn't unions REDUCE their ability to compete?

So far you haven't made very many comments that support your own comments.