Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[Narcizo]

Firstly there seems to have been 21 votes cast on Coffee Warlord. I'm sure people will say that not voting was the same as casting a vote for innocent and in these circumstances I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. However when it comes to the stage where we have two candidates I think it's very important that everyone casts a vote and states their reasons for the vote. In a game this size it just seems to be too easy for the wolves to keep the status quo, avoid a lynch and just pick us off at their leisure.

Secondly I'm not sure I'm really comfortable with the way the consul votes went down. I'm to blame as much as anyone but it seems like the two candidates got pushed through really early and there was no real way to stop the bandwagon rolling. I'm glad we got two consuls who I believe will arrest good candidates for a lynch vote but I would have prefered for there to have been at least another viable candidate. Like I said I'm as much to blame as the next man there.

[Peregrine]

Yeah, sorry about that, looking back it looks like I skipped over a page of posts somehow. At least we won't ever run out of lawyers (just like real life!)

[Poli]

I am happy that my profession may never die. Maybe now the Tarktanians will leave me and my fellows lawyers alone.

I'm here to make a decent wage and to provide a fair service.

I want to see the bad guys go away as well.

Throw Bullet from the Train, err, the Cliff.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I am happy that my profession may never die. Maybe now the Tarktanians will leave me and my fellows lawyers alone.

I'm here to make a decent wage and to provide a fair service.

I want to see the bad guys go away as well.

Throw Bullet from the Train, err, the Cliff.

Unfortunately, ardent, as long as there is a chance they could get one of their own in as a lawyer (and we don't know that they are not eligible to be lawyers themselves), your position will always be one in peril, especially in the early going right now, where it is difficult to tell who is truly important.

Speaking of which, I see why Swaggs would be killed. But why SnDvls? Anyone have any thoughts on that? Truth be told, I barely knew SnDvls was in the game.

[Poli]

Personally, if the bad guys thought they could kill the lawyers and get rid of them permanently, I'm a little surprised we weren't both targets.

Ah, but then again, I did have the bodyguard.

[Poli]

Good play, Ardent.

You're not kidding.

I love mornings. I love not being in the Navy.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Good play, Ardent.

You're not kidding.

I love mornings. I love not being in the Navy.

Wait a sec...Navy? Lawyer? You're JAG, huh? Did you get a piece of that Catherine Bell?

[Poli]

Don't ask. Don't tell. Don't harass.

[Poli]

I may be here at total of zero minutes after this post until this afternoon. My supervisor will likely be in the same room with me for most of the day.

Additionally, should I be alive after today, I will be at job sites Thursday and Friday during the day.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm guessing saldana didn't realize he could arrest someone because of WVU's absence.

i was never actually told that i could, or i would have

[ImTheCrew]

i have a feeling Bulletsponge is a Tarq plus we need to see what happens when some one is thrown off the cliff so.....

VOTE KILL BULLETSPONGE

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by saldana

i was never actually told that i could, or i would have

Come again?

Originally Posted by saldana

i am the Tribune, so apparently, the duty will fall to me if no replacement is found

You might at least have PMed Cronin to ask when it was clear that there was no replacement. This seems like a costly ommission from the villagers' standpoint.

[Narcizo]

OK getting back to the votes, I've included the votes to release Coffee because I wanted to get a picture of who didn't bother to vote at all. Of the three options available I find people not voting at all the most suspicious. Discounting WVUFan then I come up with

Alan T, Neon Chaos, Marc Vaughan, Autumn, LoneStarGirl, KWhit not casting any sort of vote. Please let me know if I'm wrong here as it's pretty difficult to cross-check this.

I'm inclined not to read too much into Alan's lack of vote as he clearly stated his point a few times but I'm interested in hearing from the rest of them about this and if it's likely to happen again in a two-candidate vote.

I'm not very happy about the consul vote (but have to accept that I'm as much to blame as anyone else, as I voted for both the successful candidates) in that there was never ever really much of a competition as KWhit and Barkeep steamrollered in early. I think we need to closely scrunitise both consuls. I can't be bothered trying to work out who didn't vote in the Consul elections but would be very happy to hear from anyone who didn't vote why they didn't.

[Narcizo]

Oops! Looks like I've pretty much repeated myself there. I didn't think I posted that the first time around. Sorry about that.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Then we should have everyone reveal who successfully bought a service on Day One, and how they used it. I know some of this has alreayd come out. Who used the sexslaves, though? Or the priest, wasn't there one of those? Or the other horse trader?

I think this is an excellent idea but I'd take it one step further. I would like everyone to state what service they bid on in day one even if they were unsuccessful. The reason for this is that I think it will give us a better idea of who's lying. (eg If a tier two Senator bid for the priest and wasn't accepted that means that the priest must have gone to a tier one or tier two senator).

I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't place a bid in day one - initially I thought there was little point as I was a bottom tier guy. AE getting the bodyguard suggests that I might have been successful after all. Do you remember which bodyguard it was by the way, AE?

[hoopsguy]

I placed a bid on the horses on Day 1 - can go look up my PM to see which one it was if that is noteworthy. There were two of them and one of them went to Alan.

I think that Chief Rum's posted thoughts on the services are pretty well thought out.

I'm going to give Bullet the benefit of the doubt for a little while today. But I definitely want to hear from him and will move to throw him from the rock (likely by mid-day) if that doesn't appear to be forthcoming.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Further thought--let's say services can be used for kills, as I believe.

Then we should have everyone reveal who successfully bought a service on Day One, and how they used it. I know some of this has alreayd come out. Who used the sexslaves, though? Or the priest, wasn't there one of those? Or the other horse trader?

I don't think the people who bought and won services for Day Two should announce. As AlanT said, that gives the Tarqs too much of a roadmap by which to go by. But the Day One services are bought and gone. If we know who bought every service that day and how they used it, we can put to rest whether or not these services are the tools by which the Tarqs may kill.

BTW, if this is true, it also behooves us to have good be rich and constantly buying services. If you are good and wealthy and are NOT buying a service, you are not helping the side of the Senate and Republic.

Right now I am assuming that the bad guys ended up hiring alot of the services due to the complete lack of anyone speaking about the service availability. So far we know Hoops and I purchased horse dealer service, we know Ardent was one of the legionares. That leaves 1 legionare, 1 sex dealer, 1 warlord and 1 priest purchased. So that either leaves 4 bad guys who purchased those services or good guys who just haven't been around yet since or are just being rather selfish about the information.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I placed a bid on the horses on Day 1 - can go look up my PM to see which one it was if that is noteworthy. There were two of them and one of them went to Alan.

I think that Chief Rum's posted thoughts on the services are pretty well thought out.

I'm going to give Bullet the benefit of the doubt for a little while today. But I definitely want to hear from him and will move to throw him from the rock (likely by mid-day) if that doesn't appear to be forthcoming.

I agree, that I'll give Bulletsponge some time to come and give a reason to not vote for him, but if past history is any indication, I bet he won't give us much.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

OK getting back to the votes, I've included the votes to release Coffee because I wanted to get a picture of who didn't bother to vote at all. Of the three options available I find people not voting at all the most suspicious. Discounting WVUFan then I come up with

Alan T, Neon Chaos, Marc Vaughan, Autumn, LoneStarGirl, KWhit not casting any sort of vote. Please let me know if I'm wrong here as it's pretty difficult to cross-check this.

I'm inclined not to read too much into Alan's lack of vote as he clearly stated his point a few times but I'm interested in hearing from the rest of them about this and if it's likely to happen again in a two-candidate vote.

I'm not very happy about the consul vote (but have to accept that I'm as much to blame as anyone else, as I voted for both the successful candidates) in that there was never ever really much of a competition as KWhit and Barkeep steamrollered in early. I think we need to closely scrunitise both consuls. I can't be bothered trying to work out who didn't vote in the Consul elections but would be very happy to hear from anyone who didn't vote why they didn't.

Yes, if you are looking for me to give you a non-existant vote that doesn't exist in order to give an indication of something that my inaction would also show to go along with giving a reason for the inaction that I already had given, then... well..

I think its pretty clear what my thoughts were about Coffee Warlord yesterday, I also remember Kwhit giving a decent amount of thought on it as well during the day. Far more so than anyone who came in and just "voted innocent" and left.

As for the Consuls, neither of the people I voted for were made a Consul, and I did comment yesterday that there seemed to be a nice go with the flow feeling on both the consuls and the Coffee Warlord feeling. Some members especially Tyrith jump out in my memory as being ones who clearly voted with whatever the general trend was at the time.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

What I would like to see is for everyone to state who they would like to see arrested today. We don't get a normal lynch vote here but we can act as though we did. That way it would be possible to keep some sort of extra voting record. Obviously it will be easy for the wolves to avoid committing to anything or they can just make a throwaway vote but if everyone commits to it I think it will provide a little bit more information for us to use.

I agree with this fully. I asked for two days feedback from people on who they thought would be good arrest candidates, and hardly anyone responded over 2 days (3 real days). I can give my initial thoughts for this morning, but they likely will change during the day. Like I said before twice, my thoughts about who to arrest yesterday were centered around 4 people:

Imthecrew - The least amount of posts at the time, very little conversation or discussion from him.

DaddyTorgo - One of the least active players so far this game, completely missed consul votes yesterday

Lonestargirl - Another one of the least active players so far this game, didn't make all of he consul votes and voted to execute someone who couldn't be executed that day.

Bulletsponge - A little more activity than the other three, but his posts appeared to not really be as much conversation posts as they were just comedical or posts that didn't really contribute to the goal of finding traitors.

Out of the 4, I chose Bulletsponge since I felt of the four, I had a better chance at him being a traitor. Part of me feels that none of the four are traitorous though, which leads to the secondary desire of if you aren't getting a wolf, then definitly don't lynch a villager who is being really active.



Just keep in mind, that I think going for under the radar players isn't a bad early game strategy, but once information comes out on various people I would obviously rather go after peope we know or suspect to be traitorous. While i was consul, I just did not have any of that type of information available to me so had to rely completely on hunches since very few people helped me out with suggestions for arrest.

[Peregrine]

I didn't bid on any services in Day 1, I should have but I wasn't really paying attention to that part of it.

[hoopsguy]

Lots of thoughts here, all in one post.

People that have struck a chord with me, in a negative way, at some point during the game:

1. Daddy Torgo - seemed to be playing a "me too" game on Day 1. Put out idea that KWhit is clogging the courts with suits (post #161). Bid on women Day 1 (post #161), no reports if he got them and if they provided value.
2. Barkeep - didn't understand his idea on suing "one level up" on Day 1, asks about suing randomly (post #93). Either having a hard time finding his groove early or something else. This is why I posted yesterday that I would like to see candidates emerge to challenge him as a Consul.
3. Autumn - looking to level financial playing field (post #71), asked about system where we don't pick who we sue (post #100). Did you get a horseman from Day 1 bid? (post #155)
4. Ironhead - was in his day 2 posts, haven't gotten that far yet in my review, will expand on this in post later today.


People who have left a minimal impression that I would like to see more from (that have not been previously discussed)
1. Anxiety - won a horseman (post #293)
2. Path - did you get the priest? (post #162)
3. Marc Vaughn
4. Schmidty
5. Antmeister
6. Neon Chaos



Also, further supporting the idea that lawsuit results are not random (post #171 by cronin):

The lawsuits will be resolved on their merits. I believe the only thing random.org needs to be consulted for is if the Tribune post should become empty.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lots of thoughts here, all in one post.

People that have struck a chord with me, in a negative way, at some point during the game:

1. Daddy Torgo - seemed to be playing a "me too" game on Day 1. Put out idea that KWhit is clogging the courts with suits (post #161). Bid on women Day 1 (post #161), no reports if he got them and if they provided value.
2. Barkeep - didn't understand his idea on suing "one level up" on Day 1, asks about suing randomly (post #93). Either having a hard time finding his groove early or something else. This is why I posted yesterday that I would like to see candidates emerge to challenge him as a Consul.
3. Autumn - looking to level financial playing field (post #71), asked about system where we don't pick who we sue (post #100). Did you get a horseman from Day 1 bid? (post #155)
4. Ironhead - was in his day 2 posts, haven't gotten that far yet in my review, will expand on this in post later today.


People who have left a minimal impression that I would like to see more from (that have not been previously discussed)
1. Anxiety - won a horseman (post #293)
2. Path - did you get the priest? (post #162)
3. Marc Vaughn
4. Schmidty
5. Antmeister
6. Neon Chaos



Also, further supporting the idea that lawsuit results are not random (post #171 by cronin):

Yes, day 1 I almost arrested daddyTorgo and day 2 I almost arrested him also. He's been bugging me alot this game for some reason I haven't quite put my finger on yet.

I kind of agree about Barkeep. not sure what exactly is up with him. I don't feel badly yet about Autumn or Ironhead, but perhaps its because they both are fairly new. Ironhead had some agenda that I couldn't put my finger on last night that I called him out on, but I don't think thats enough to say he's a traitor, he could have just been wrong.

On your second list, Anxiety really is the one that bugged me the most. He made references to things that I asked about and then tried to change the subject, to which I responded and then he just stopped responding all together on it.

[Poli]

BTW, boss isn't here right now.

Umm, I tried for the sex slave dude yesterday. I didn't get him. So someone else knows what they do now as well.

[Poli]

Ardent Enthusiast sues Alan T for past Werewolf injustices.

[Poli]

That sure makes me feel better.

[Alan T]

I tried to put together some kind of charting to see what we can learn from the lawsuits.. This is the best I could come up with:

The biggest collection of lawsuits seemed to be from this group. We don't know how Kwhit and Hoopsguy relate to each other, we don't know what level Grammaticus fits in comparison to Hoopsguy, kwhit and myself.

1. Alan T Grammaticus?
2. Kwhit Hoopsguy Grammaticus?
3. Autumn
4. Saldana
5. barkeep
6. Neon_Chaos


The next group I seperated out as the only common person was Kwhit. Basically we know Kwhit and Anxiety both bettered Ardent who beat Swaggs. Somewhere in this grouping Daddytorgo, Bulletsponge and Mustang fit together too.
1. Kwhit Anxiety
2. Ardent Daddytorgo? Bulletsponge?
3. Swaggs Daddytorgo? Bulletsponge? Mustang?
4. Mustang?

Then we had two other lawsuits of individuals that wern't tied with the rest.

1. Peregrine
2. Path

1. Coffee Warlord
2. Ironhead

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

That sure makes me feel better.

Hey, no one is perfect!

[Poli]

Ardent drops the suit against Alan T.

I know, but that was fun.

[Alan T]

So today's lawsuits that are being decided that we can take a guess how some might end up:

Chief rum sues Lonestargirl - Unknown
Narcizo sues Peregrine - Unknown
Neon_Chaos sues Anxiety - Unknown (looking favorably to Anxiety)
Neon_Chaos sues Antmeister - Unknown
Neon_Chaos sues Autumn - Autumn should win
Neon_Chaos sues Barkeep - Barkeep should win
Neon_Chaos sues Path12 - Unknown
Neon_Chaos sues Peregrine - Unknown
Alan T sues Chief Rum - Unknown
Alan T sues Barkeep - Alan should win
Kwhit sues Chief Rum - Unknown
Kwhit sues DaddyTorgo - Unknown (leaning favorably to Kwhit)
Kwhit sues Hoopsguy - Unknown
Kwhit sues Narcizo - Unknown
Kwhit sues Neon_Chaos - Kwhit should win
Kwhit sues Tyrith - Unknown
Imthecrew sues Bulletsponge - Unknown
Imthecrew sues Alan T - Unknown
Antmeister sues Neon Chaos - Unknown

[Alan T]

I have been thinking more about what Cronin said that some evidence of treason may come from a lawsuit. I wonder if that part was the hint at the role of the lawyers and it has nothing to do with the suits themselves. If the suits are simply just to try to gain money for your own dealings after all.

[Poli]

No clue. Like I said, I know nothing about what I do/can do.

Heck, I'm not even sure Dodgerchick is telling the truth about hiring me. I certainly wasn't told about it.

I was just thinking about who I trust on my way to get some things stapled. Right now, I don't trust anyone...outside of a small trust of CW because of how he's playing. Even that isn't much. Probably the first time this is the case in a while.

[Alan T]

Alanus Teeus sues Grammus Atticus
Alanus Teeus sues Abeus Anxietus

Guessing everyone sees why i am sueing these two today, so won't go into a tons of details. Should help figure out more on how everyone fits together for lawsuits.

[Poli]

Ardent Enthusiast sues Kwhit for suing me yesterday.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

No clue. Like I said, I know nothing about what I do/can do.

Heck, I'm not even sure Dodgerchick is telling the truth about hiring me. I certainly wasn't told about it.

I was just thinking about who I trust on my way to get some things stapled. Right now, I don't trust anyone...outside of a small trust of CW because of how he's playing. Even that isn't much. Probably the first time this is the case in a while.

Yeah, I went back and forth on how I felt about Dodgerchick's reveal. The bad guys know I'm good, so revealing that to gain trust is a common move. I just think its pretty gutsy to indicate you have an ability that you don't have for very little gain if she was a wolf. We'll know more about how the lawyers operate today and tommorrow I imagine. If it shows to be consistant with the normal behavior of how the lawyers work, then we'll be able to take it somewhat close to face value. If not, then well I don't understand that move at all if she's not good. For now I'm willing to believe it and extend some latitude until we find out more from today's usage of the lawyers. (or I guess in this case would just be one lawyer as no one tried to get schmidty's service yesterday).

Right now from a trust perspective, I don't have anyone in full trust. I feel ok about a few people right now, however most people are in some shades of grey.

[bulletsponge]

ohh i see how it goes, everyone wants to kill me! of course thats how the traitorous Tarqs want me to go, because i can buy services that will make it hard to assassinate me. I am loyal to the republic but it seems some of you have a thirst for my blood. at least someone can hire some horizontal refreshment from the sex dealer, jail is lonely


ill be out till past noon, ill be at work. i suspect the enemies of the republic will continue to gather support for killing me

[Narcizo]

I had a theory that the poorer person tends to win the suit, it was almost perfect but a couple of cases slipped it up. However if (lack of) wealth does factor in somewhere then KWhit should be markedly less successful today, compared with yesterday. My other theory is that everyone has a hidden debating ability which determines who wins each case.

To test the wealth hypothesis.

Narcizo sues LoneStarGirl
Narcizo sues DaddyTorgo

Alan seems to be doing a good job of gathering information if it's about a hidden stat.

I agree that the quote of st.cronin hoopsguy mentioned above suggests that we probably won't be getting information about treachery directly from the court cases as that would require a random check. (unless a result is entirely dependent on who is suing whom).

[st.cronin]

Apparently the Tribune of the Plebs was awaiting some omen from the Gods to indicate that he should issue an arrest warrant. I apologize for any inconvenience I caused by not being more explicit.

[Poli]

So is another warrant being issued?

[Poli]

Ardent Enthusiast sues his paralegal and secretary to see his caseload.

[Poli]

If another warrant IS issued, and it's me. I'm counter-suing for damages. Justsoyouknow.

[Poli]

Another JSYK:

This is probably the most fun I've had in WW in a long long time.

[Poli]

Barkeep making me the captain is probably a close second.

[Poli]

Daredevil is probably 3rd.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Another JSYK:

This is probably the most fun I've had in WW in a long long time.

[Poli]

?

[Poli]

Ardent Enthusiast sues Alan T for defamation.

[Poli]

[Barkeep49]

My list of potential arrests:

1. Narcazio -- Moved up a rank of wealth for no apparent reason
2. ITC -- Hardly ever an active player so this game isn't unusual, but as a rule I'm in favor of going after those who are less active
3. Ironhead -- Troubling inconsistencies

I would be open to other ideas as well.

[KWhit]

Ardent seems to be posting just to be posting.