Youth Sports Parents are Awful People #10,783

[Atocep]

This is my first year not coaching son at any level of baseball and I thoroughly enjoy not coaching and having more of a Dad/Son relationship with my son rather than Dad/Coach/Son/Player relationship.

What I hated as a coach the most was dealing with parents (not uncommon). They're truly awful in most instances. It was easy early on when my son was younger, but as my son got older the complaints from parents over playing time and whatnot got louder and more viscous. It really is what made it easy for me to step aside as a coach and strictly become a parent and I haven't looked back or regretted the decision one bit.

Unfortunately, I'm finding parents aren't easy to avoid. My son is playing on a 14U team in an organization that has teams at all age levels. This is his 4th year playing in this organization and he has generally loved it. Until this year. He's playing with a group of kids that seem to be out for themselves. If they're not playing, they're pouting on the bench. If they're playing, they're not giving much effort. They don't really support one another at all. Particularly frustrating because this is a very talented group of kids, but it's sucked the fun out of the game for my son.

My son's coach has recognized this and got him rostered with one of our 15u teams. They had 2 catchers, well 1 actual catcher, so he was added to their roster kind of as a tryout to see if it worked for the coaches and other kids. This weekend was his first games with the team (2 yesterday and 1 today) and in game 1 he didn't play. Not a problem at all, he was told by me not to expect playing time. Work hard, be a good teammate, and be thankful for playing time if/when it comes with this group. Game 2 he caught and caught a hell of a game. He was given the game ball by the coaches, was given an open invitation and encouraged to show up whenever he could.

After game 1 when he received no playing time the first thing he said to me after the game was "I'd rather play with this team than our team". They're not the best team, but they are a team. They encourage, support one another, and play hard. After game 2 I hadn't seen him happier in a long time after a game. He had a blast and knew he had played well and proved himself.

Today I didn't expect him to play much and definitely not catch. A fill in player simply isn't going to take the job of the kid that's there every day nor should he.

In the 5th inning they sent him out to left field during a pitching change as the leftfielder went to pitch and the pitcher went to the bench. What I wasn't expecting was the attitude of the parents. I'm standing there watching the game and someone asked who was going out to left field, someone else said his name, which was followed up with questions about who he is and why he's on the team. Someone said he was added as a 3rd catcher and pointed out he caught yesterday. That was followed up with comments about how he's not needed, as long as their guys play first, and then general bitching about him being on the team. After listening to it non-stop for a half inning I moved to my car in an attempt to try to enjoy watching my son play baseball a bit.

The kids on this team are great, they've made my son one of them without question, and he's having a blast. The coaches have been fantastic with him and I've made it clear they don't have to play him as there really is zero expectations for playing time.

After all of that, the reason for this post is just to complain about how sports parents want kids like my son ostracized since he's "not one of us". As coach when we needed a fill in just to have a minimum number of players it drove me nuts to listen to parents tell me shit like "as long as our kids play first". If this were anything else besides sports it would be ridiculous to act like this. These are young teens and instead of encouraging the one thing an outside kid needs (inclusion) they encourage an us vs them attitude.

What makes this particularly ridiculous is my son is from the same organization and wears the same uniform as these kids every day. The only difference is the age level. It frustrates the hell out of me how much hate and entitlement sports parents have. Normally, I sit as far away from parents on our team as I can because I know how they can be. I thought with this group it would be different after seeing how great these kids are. I was wrong. Apparently all youth sports parents are the same.

[SackAttack]

Only time I've ever been threatened with physical violence, it was by a "sports parent" while I was officiating a youth baseball game.

I'm a big dude. People generally don't cross me even though I'm a teddy bear (which some might read as "pushover").

This little chihuahua of a fuck, though, comes down out of the stands between innings after the coaches run out to make a big deal about the batter being hit (he wasn't) and says "if you don't get your shit together, I'm going to kick your fucking teeth in."

[EagleFan]

It's not just sports parents. When my daughters used to dance I would here idiot mothers complaining about why their kids weren't center stage. It was always more amusing when I figured out which kids were theirs, always seemed to be the most out of sync dancer on the stage.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I tried to post once but it glitched during log-in. So lemme try again I guess

Basically there's a couple of things I'm simply not clear about, so I'm gonna ask.

Originally Posted by Atocep

What makes this particularly ridiculous is my son is from the same organization and wears the same uniform as these kids every day. The only difference is the age level.

Okay, doesn't that make them different teams entirely then?

Maybe I'm not grasping the structure properly or something but, honestly, aside from people you happened to know (mostly due to geography) I'm not sure I've ever been around non-school youth sports where "same organization" really meant much of anything to anyone.

Sharing practice space was about the only connection -- again, aside from people you previously knew -- between the different age levels. And that was true across 3 decades of experience from player to coach to parent.

I guess I'm just kinda surprised by your, err, surprise/disappointment.

Now the other comment/question, I'm REALLY thinking that I'm missing something here, or misreading something, or ... something.

As I read your post, what I'm picturing is basically this:
"My son showed up, newly added to the roster, played 1.5 games out of 3"

Was there practice time previously with these guys? Is the season brand new & basically there isn't any "time in service" for anybody else either? I mean, my admittedly probably flawed reading of things was "he got added to the roster kinda behind the scenes (as far as the other parents knew), and suddenly played".

And if that's accurate, well, honestly I'm surprised the reaction wasn't a lot more forceful. Unless it's basically the start of the season, I'm not sure that I've ever seen anything like that happen at any point in my combined youth sports experiences. And anything close to it would likely have led to multiple players leaving the team -- pretty much any team in any sport -- over it.

That said, there's a big possibility I might be missing that would explain it for me: Is this, essentially, "travel ball"? rather than typical league structure youth ball I mean.

If so, most bets are probably off on anything I said because those are largely mercenary & survival-of-the-fittest deals in most cases. That makes for a lot more volatility in lineups, playing time, the whole nine yards.

Then again, it would also make the negative feedback more predictable as well. I don't think I've ever known anyone playing travel ball in any sport* that wasn't doing so primarily as a means to an end (scholarship exposure, draft position, whatever). Anything that cuts into playing time in those situations, well, that's impacting an investment.

Let me try to be clear: I'm not ripping you, I'm not dogging anything you've felt or said. I'm legit trying to figure out why / how this isn't all pretty much predictable I guess.


edit to add the* -- I take that back. I've seen some "just for fun" mentality still exist with travel softball, though I attribute that largely to the more limited opportunities for it versus other most other travel sports. The rest that I've been around -- baseball, basketball, soccer, as well as what amounts to the same thing with the tennis tournament circuit -- are all pretty cut & dried that it's for exposure & opportunity. That's true with both the kids & the parents.

double edit: In reviewing this topic & my questions/comments with my son he raised a possibility I didn't think of. Essentially "club teams" that travel but are not the elite-level teams that my phrasing of "travel ball" was meant to cover. I honestly don't know anyone that's ever played on one of those kind of in-between situations, and am not really familiar with how they roll one way or the other. But that's probably another possibility here too.

[Atocep]

This is a select organization that trains and has teams of all ages (they're partnered with Garciapara Baseball Group which is run by Nomar and his brother). They train out the same building and with the same instructors. They're just in and out of the building and off the fields at different times. This organization is different than most in that it focuses on development rather than wins and loses, especially at the younger ages. My son being added isn't out of the ordinary for this group. For tournaments (which this was) it's fairly common because the organization works with pitch counts and usage limits for pitchers/catchers that most select teams don't have to deal with (my son's primary team has 2 kids that bounce in and out). As someone that coached for this group for 2 years the extra players are much needed sometimes. Explaining to parents why we need 2 fill in players to get us to 12 players for a 4 game plus tournament over 2 days is always fun though.

This tournament started on Friday. Friday night we got an email inviting us out for Saturday. Their first game of the year was the game Friday that my son wasn't at. I'm guessing the reason we got the email was because they were down to 1 catcher for the weekend, it was expected to be in the low to mid 90s (incredibly hot for Western Washington) both Saturday and Sunday, and they needed someone to catch at least 1 game. So for the weekend my son played 1 game plus 2 innings when they ran out of players.

So while this would technically qualify as a travel ball type thing, it's different than most. The head of the organization actually told my son's coach he was looking for a catcher for this 15u team and knew my son could handle it. They got my approval and sent the info to the coach to have on hand if needed.

On the other hand, I do agree it's somewhat predictable. I've been around youth parents long enough to know that. I'm just always disappointed when I see things like this. I'll just go back to bringing a chair and sitting as far away from everyone as I can.

[JonInMiddleGA]

See, I figured I was missing something somewhere. This makes a bit more sense to me now, thanks for indulging the questions.

[tarcone]

I never sit by parents. As a former coach, as well, I learned to stay away from them.
But the last 2 select Basketball teams my daughter has been on, the parents have been good in the stands. For the most part.
On one team, it was the outside stuff. I was talking to a coach from her former team the other day. He said the parents cane to the coaches with 24 complaints. The parents were fun and good people. But sports can do something to people.

[HomerSimpson98]

Sorry to hear that sir. What's great is that your son is seeing none of the "outside crap" that you are.

I will say one thing - when you're talking about travel teams and select sports, the big difference now is that money is involved. Everyone is ponying up some dough (sometimes significant). Decisions on who plays on what team are definitely partly made on roster size. Also, it sounds like this team had been playing together for awhile now, so for others to notice a new player and be curious, I would think would be expected. But that's as far as I'll go defending that. The "we dont need him" shit sucks. I also dont think I'd go sit in my car. Instead, try and introduce yourself to the other players, explaining the invite and all that. I've leaned that first impressions are sometimes a real bitch.

[CU Tiger]

One of my good friends (Jon I think you met him when we came to Athens a few years ago) coaches an elite travel baseball team in SC.

He has the best scenario Ive ever heard and the track record to pull it off. The first practice each year it is mandatory that both parents attend if the kid is to play on the team. (There is some wiggle room for kids without 2 parents in the picture, of course but if the kid is involved with the parent the parent HAS to attend the meeting)

The coach lays out his 3 rules to the parents.
1)He and his coaches are the coaches and no one not inside the fence is to coach or teach his players at any time that they are inside the fence. He uses the example no "choke up" no "swing earlier" you can cheer and encourage but not teach in any manner.
2) This is a team. We are a solid unit and we never down talk our teammates on the field or off. We are all flawed we recognize we have flaws and we dont need peers pointing those flaws out. That destroys not builds.
3) You play when and where the coach tells you to, you do not offer input on either factor.

Violation 1 The parent is barred from attending any future games.
Violation 2 The kid is kicked off the team and no refund is offered.

He says its been 3 years since he has had to deal with any violations. They are by far the most successful team around. Kids love playing for him and parents all get along. He says he generally loses 2-3 kids every year at that meeting.

I did get to watch him one time enforce his rules at a 12U game. One of his better players comes up to bat and swings and misses at pitch 1. Dad yells from the stands"Keep your back elbow up son, don't drop it."

"Time out"

"Sir, I need you to go sit in your car for the rest of the day."
"I'm not leaving"
"Ok, we have a substitution, blue. New batter."

Kid turns around and says "Thanks dad, why do you do this."

Melt down.

Remainder of season kid bats clean up, Dad stays home. Kid now plays college ball.

Happily ever after.

[Atocep]

That's a good example and the type of things I dealt with as a coach. My policy was I don't talk to parents about playing time or any on field issues. The player comes to me and we talk about why he's not playing more or why he isn't playing a certain position.

That particular example also highlights the problem with parents trying to to tell kids how to do things. They tend to teach what they were taught and a lot has changed since then. In that particular example, back elbow up is old teaching and is something that's discouraged now.

Yesterday in the 2nd inning there was a runner on 1st for the opposing tram and a lefty up to bat. A group of our parents were yelling at their kid at 2nd to move more into the hole and trying to position him on the field. The coach walked out of the dugout and over to those parents and told them to keep quiet and let him coach his team. It was obvious to me he wanted the middle infield at double play depth with one out.

The next half inning the other team is in the field and we had a runner on 1st and they had their 2nd baseman playing in the hole. Those parents went on and on about how that team knows what they're doing with defensive positioning. The problem there was there 2 outs and no reason to play for 2.

[Senator]

My 15th year coaching. I was asked my administration to coach a little 7-7 team for kids that never played. I showed up and had 30 minutes with the team before the first game. We won this game, and ended up going 10-0 but after the first day of meeting the team and playing a game I get this email from a 29 year old mom. Remember. I had never met or known any player on this team and I am accused of favoritism.

I'm a little late to the conversation since my email is not the primary in our i9 profile, however I finally read your message about last weeks game online. I have to say I am disappointed in the response to our concerns. When we voice that we feel each player should have a hand on the ball at some point in the game, it is not to overlook "important elements" in the game of football because " we want our baby to play too"!
My concern with having all of the kids participate EQUALLY and learn ALL positions (not just defense) is so they can see which positions they are good at, and figure out for themselves IF they even enjoy playing! This is not my sons first season of flag football. Last year he thoroughly enjoyed himself, all of he kids did! MOST of the parents came to us to request my husband coach again so our team could try to stay together since everyone got along so well and the kids had a blast! And shocker we did not win every game, probably not even half the season! But the players enjoyed every bit of it! It built character being apart of a team that encouraged one another.

You gave 4 boys the opportunity to play over 75% of the game last week while the other 4 continued to rotate in for one another, playing less than 25% combined. And more often then not, after just ONE play!
Each of those 4 kids played the same two positions the entire game between the four of them.

It is appalling to have kids experience blatant favoritism from the coach of a little league football team! My son stressed that he asked you more than 4 times between practice and the game, if he could run with the ball (because it meant the world to him last year to score a couple touchdowns) and when I asked what your response was he told me "he kept telling me yes, but he never did".

It's disgusting to me that my husband respectfully pulls you aside as you requested we do if "we had concerns or suggestions" and your response was that defensive email justifying your actions from last weeks game.

We are all here to have fun and unlike some, I could care less if our team ever scored a touchdown! This is not why we continued with i9 for a 5th season! We have always experienced the wonderful values and principles of i9 with each team we've ever played with until this season.

Being game one, I wasn't too disappointed since I thought it was just the start of the season, you were trying to get use to everyone and learn what is best for your team. However after reading your message, continuing to defend your coaching choices I am disturbed. I really hope you can go back over the i9 handbook for coaches, and try to embody what this organization is all about before tomorrow's game.

Have a Blessed Day,

[Senator]

Btw. Every kid on the team scored by year end and she apologized through her husband.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Senator

Have a Blessed Day,

That's the part that always gets me.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Senator

Btw. Every kid on the team scored by year end and she apologized through her husband.

She told all her friends it was HER email that made you see the light

[Senator]

Where was she in my other 14 seasons? Oh, she was there. Just in the form of a different mom.

[tarcone]

There is value in learning to compete, isnt there?

[Suicane75]

Man, I couldn't function in todays world. I mean, I can't anyway, but if I was a kid.

I remember my little league team, we had a girl, and she was horrible, but she played a lot and nobody gave a shit. One time I had our first basemens mom come to me and ask me if I could throw the ball a little softer to him (I was playing second for some reason that I don't remember, I was normally a 3rd basemen so I guess I was still firing it, even though I didn't really need to.) I didn't take offense. My first two years we had a 1st basemen who was a frigging giant but couldn't make contact to save his life, I think we nicknamed him Kingman. If I saw him bat 100 times I think he struck out 90 times but those other 10 times when he would actually make contact were spectacular.

I've seen so many girls who play travelling softball, eat, breathe and sleep the game for a few years, parents who spend hundreds of dollars on bats and gloves and take time off of work to travel, almost to a tee, burn out of the thing completely. I guess I'm just grumpy old man but it just doesn't seem like a lot of fun.

[21C]

Silence on the Sidelines campaign
Silence on the Sidelines campaign aims to curb bad behaviour at soccer matches - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I remember my little league team, we had a girl, and she was horrible, but she played a lot and nobody gave a shit.

The first team I played on -- back in the really olden days of "town ball", pre-dating county-wide rec leagues in other words -- had not one girl but three. And one was arguably our best player*, another was in the upper half, only one was kind of bench fodder.

Probably gave me an ahead-of-the-times outlook of "if you got game, you got game".

One time I had our first basemens mom come to me and ask me if I could throw the ball a little softer to him (I was playing second for some reason that I don't remember, I was normally a 3rd basemen so I guess I was still firing it, even though I didn't really need to.) I didn't take offense.

Now this, on the other hand, that's mind-boggling to my experiences. Something like that, back in the day, oh dear me. For a parent to do that would have been the kiss of death socially & athletically for the kid most likely.

And, you know, it was a different time & place. If he's making the plays then I see no issue. And if he isn't making the plays then even from a very early single-digit age I would have had enough baseball savvy to try to make the adjustment on my own thank-you-very-much. It's in my best interest for him to catch damned ball after all.

edit to add: I will say, after a moment's hindsight, that those three girls were all 2-3 years older than me and among our oldest players generally. Like I said, different era, so I think the team had players that ranged from about 6 or 7 up through 12 years old.

[timmae]

This has been a very interesting read... Common sense must get checked at the door when the kid is born..

[tarcone]

My brothers team had a girl on their little league team. She was the best player. In fact, she was the best athlete in our town.
His team was really good. Had kids that went onto college ball.
They qualified for the the little league world series, but didnt go because they didnt allow girls to play in the tourney.

How times have changed.

[CraigSca]

Having my daughter play travel ball from 9 to 14 was the best and also the WORST.

Travel ball teams, in general, are a constantly evolving process. If a kid is the best player on the team, they're sick of having to play with kids who are below them talent-wise. If they're the worst on the team, they want to move elsewhere so they get more playing time. The only happy medium for a player is to be somewhere in the middle, but if a new child shows up who perhaps pushes them into the bottom tier, the claws come out.

Have fun coaching that!

[miami_fan]

There is something joyous about sitting in the stands, listening to parents curse out an umpire for four and a half straight innings. Then to have the same parents clutch their pearls when the opposing team’s coach exclaims “Shit!” at an obvious missed call by said ump.

[Young Drachma]

haha, I was at a middle school AAU basketball tournament last week and marveled at how all of these parents were shouting out instructions to their kid during the game. Maybe I'm overly sensitive as a (former) coach, but luckily nobody yells out anything to their kid at a tennis match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

but luckily nobody yells out anything to their kid at a tennis match.

Umm ... that may depend on where you are

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

haha, I was at a middle school AAU basketball tournament last week and marveled at how all of these parents were shouting out instructions to their kid during the game. Maybe I'm overly sensitive as a (former) coach, but luckily nobody yells out anything to their kid at a tennis match.

Luckily for my son's baseball coaches, I know nothing about coaching the mechanics of baseball

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... that may depend on where you are

Yeah, tennis parents are a special brand of the worst. But I can deal with that, lol.

[ColtCrazy]

Basketball is bad for that. Near the end of the season, one of the parents from my son's 8th grade team left the stands, stood at the edge of the court, and berated the ref for a missed trip of his son that no one else saw. He ended his tirade by saying, "Maybe if you lost 50 lbs you could keep up with the action." He was tossed and banned for the remainder of the tournament. As an administrator of the district, I felt the need to apologize to the ref for our fans behavior. The ref admitted he has dealt with the guy before. "He seems nice enough, but he just goes from zero to stupid in no time."

Son now starts AAU tournaments next weekend. I am dreading those. Worst of the worst parents are involved. They'll just make fun of the other team's kids, slam the ref, and just act like all around assholes.

[MizzouRah]

I referee youth soccer and last night during an indoor soccer game, I had a coach who apparently had two 11-12 year old players on a 8-9 year old girls division.

Long story short, the coach from the other team made a protest after the game and sure enough she had illegal players on her team. This is a RECREATIONAL league!

It gets even better, after the game out in the parking lot, a parent from the team that played her team starts yelling at her about her older players and she pushes the guy which starts a free for all. By the time the cops arrived, most of the people had dispersed but they had it all on camera.

All of this transpires on a 3rd grade girls soccer game.. sheesh!

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I referee youth soccer and last night during an indoor soccer game, I had a coach who apparently had two 11-12 year old players on a 8-9 year old girls division.

Long story short, the coach from the other team made a protest after the game and sure enough she had illegal players on her team. This is a RECREATIONAL league!

It gets even better, after the game out in the parking lot, a parent from the team that played her team starts yelling at her about her older players and she pushes the guy which starts a free for all. By the time the cops arrived, most of the people had dispersed but they had it all on camera.

All of this transpires on a 3rd grade girls soccer game.. sheesh!

I had a parent tell me something about 20 years ago when I first started coaching youth sports. As long as there is someone keeping score, there is no such thing as recreational league sports.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I had a parent tell me something about 20 years ago when I first started coaching youth sports. As long as there is someone keeping score, there is no such thing as recreational league sports.

So true.. which is why I always say.. turn off the scoreboard.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I referee youth soccer and last night during an indoor soccer game, I had a coach who apparently had two 11-12 year old players on a 8-9 year old girls division.

Long story short, the coach from the other team made a protest after the game and sure enough she had illegal players on her team. This is a RECREATIONAL league!

It gets even better, after the game out in the parking lot, a parent from the team that played her team starts yelling at her about her older players and she pushes the guy which starts a free for all. By the time the cops arrived, most of the people had dispersed but they had it all on camera.

All of this transpires on a 3rd grade girls soccer game.. sheesh!

Yeah, who needs to cheat in a 3rd grade girls soccer game

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

So true.. which is why I always say.. turn off the scoreboard.

Rendering it all pointless.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Long story short, the coach from the other team made a protest after the game and sure enough she had illegal players on her team. This is a RECREATIONAL league!

I'm ... confused.

Did the coach that protested have illegal players of her own? Or was she just correct about the other team having ringers?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm ... confused.

Did the coach that protested have illegal players of her own? Or was she just correct about the other team having ringers?

Sorry.. the guy from the team who protested the game notified the manager of the complex and when they looked at her roster she had 3 older players not rostered on her team playing in this game.

[CU Tiger]

I am assuming there was a proper team/league for the older girls to play on?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Sorry.. the guy from the team who protested the game notified the manager of the complex and when they looked at her roster she had 3 older players not rostered on her team playing in this game.

So declare a double forfeit, suspend both coaches (I'm guessing the other team originally accused was also guilty), move on.

See? Some things are simple

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I am assuming there was a proper team/league for the older girls to play on?

Yes there is, she pulled the kids from another team in their proper age group.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So declare a double forfeit, suspend both coaches (I'm guessing the other team originally accused was also guilty), move on.

See? Some things are simple

One team was legit.. the other, not so much. It was a forfeit for the team who violated rules. My question is.. why? These are 3rd grade kids, what makes someone ask 2-3 year older kids to come and play? You get SQUAT for winning the league, no trophy, no t-shirt, nothing.

[tarcone]

The only thing I can think of is they would not have been able to play for lack of numbers without the older girls.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

One team was legit.. the other, not so much. It was a forfeit for the team who violated rules. My question is.. why? These are 3rd grade kids, what makes someone ask 2-3 year older kids to come and play? You get SQUAT for winning the league, no trophy, no t-shirt, nothing.

I don't think I've ever seen a youth league in any sport I'm familiar with (so the traditional three "ball sports" basically) where, if not properly policed, somebody wouldn't pull that crap.

edit to add: Point being, I'd say that's just pretty much human nature.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

One team was legit.. the other, not so much. It was a forfeit for the team who violated rules. My question is.. why? These are 3rd grade kids, what makes someone ask 2-3 year older kids to come and play? You get SQUAT for winning the league, no trophy, no t-shirt, nothing.

I believe the quote is "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin."

Now let me go and find three forms of proof of residence and the original birth certificate. Rec soccer is coming up

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by tarcone

The only thing I can think of is they would not have been able to play for lack of numbers without the older girls.

When I was out of town for a competition and my dad take over, my squad played with 10 girls (U-14 league). Other team agreed to play with 10 on the field. We won like 6-0, and the girlfriend of a player's brother who came to assistant coach Dad for the match was like, "Wow, your son is doing amazing work with these girls! They never played like that last year!" (She'd assistant coached the season before I came on, and they were 1-15).

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't think I've ever seen a youth league in any sport I'm familiar with (so the traditional three "ball sports" basically) where, if not properly policed, somebody wouldn't pull that crap.

edit to add: Point being, I'd say that's just pretty much human nature.

I'm sure it happens a lot.. but in this particular case, the coach from the legit team knew who the older players were on the other team.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

One team was legit.. the other, not so much. It was a forfeit for the team who violated rules. My question is.. why? These are 3rd grade kids, what makes someone ask 2-3 year older kids to come and play? You get SQUAT for winning the league, no trophy, no t-shirt, nothing.

I did that once in soccer. We had a team that was woefully underpowered. We won one game all season. One week we were really short on players and we got one of the kids' friends who played on the "B" rep team to come out. We put him on D so to not get noticed as much. We still lost, but it was closer than most games.

[MizzouRah]

Parents need to start pulling their kids off teams with coaches who cannot control themselves.



I was reffing an indoor game last night and team "B" had two coaches constantly yelling at their kids and as well as yelling at every single call and non-call I made.


One of their players who I warned at the beginning of the game when he came in hard on a player from team "A" comes in hard again and was going to get a 2:00 minute blue card. Player from team "A" retaliates and a fight starts. Coaches come out and break it up and I give both players a red card and dismiss them from the game.


The whole time, the two coaches from team "B" are screaming this and that and then the assistant coach starts cussing at me so I dismiss him. On his way out, he slams the bench door hard enough to break it off its hinges and continues to cuss and bait me into a fight.


I just stand there and watch him leave and basically say very calmly.. you're on video so I would just stop and leave. He finally leaves and we resume play.


The rest of the game was fine with no incidents but the game was never out of control, it was two coaches who their kids were feeding on their behavior and I just hope some of their parents think to themselves.. do I want my kid playing for these two coaches?


I told both coaches after the game, I'm going to miss calls and you're not going to agree with everything I call or don't call, but if you're calm and speak to me at halftime, I will listen and explain to you what I'm seeing or not seeing. Indoor soccer is totally different than outdoor soccer, not only is there only 1 referee, but the boards are used as a weapon for many kids because they can check a kid into them causing injury. I call everything against the boards. All I can do is make calls, it's up to YOU as the coach to ensure your kids are playing the right way. They tend not to listen to me, but they will listen to YOU the coach or you bench them. You should never say "good job" when a kid slams into a kid along the boards.


There is no doubt the kid from team "B" came in like that because his coach told him to go in hard as they were losing.


Good thing is, where I referee they have video cameras so there really isn't much of a dispute as it's all told right there on video.


That particular coach should get an 8 game suspension and I will do my best to see they follow through with it.

[molson]

I don't know how refs do it, at any level. Leagues are lucky to have them. I would have handed my whistle to that guy and left.

And I'll never understand why people can take ref calls so personally. Both parents and even fans watching pro games. I've seen on this board over the years (and worse on reddit). Every pro athlete is going to play badly on a play here or there, every ref is going to make calls you disagree with. Only the latter do people take as personal insults. When I see people do that, like at a casual football watching social event, I never look at them quite the same after that. They're the people who have road rage, the people who get caught on video having tantrums, the people who harass their ex-girlfriends, etc. Shitty entitled people who think every little thing that happens in the world they don't like is a personal calculated insult to them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

And I'll never understand why people can take ref calls so personally.

Try watching people you love have years of effort taken away by officials that are either inept or outright crooked often enough, maybe it'll make more sense.

We have FAR too many schools (and therefore games*) for the supply of capable officials in Georgia, and it's an aging pool to boot, so there's often years of history between schools/coaches/ officials adding to the mix.

*we've already seen games being moved to Wednesday nights due to a shortage of officials - capable or not - and it doesn't feel like Tuesday night is far from becoming a thing. Which will in turn pretty much destroy 8th, 9th, JV football in terms of both scheduling and officiating. But with around 200 games every Friday night and 6 man crews, the supply simply doesn't come close to meeting demand. The supply of remotely capable officials comes much shorter.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

We have FAR too many schools (and therefore games*) for the supply of capable officials in Georgia, and it's an aging pool to boot, so there's often years of history between schools/coaches/ officials adding to the mix.

*we've already seen games being moved to Wednesday nights due to a shortage of officials - capable or not - and it doesn't feel like Tuesday night is far from becoming a thing. Which will in turn pretty much destroy 8th, 9th, JV football in terms of both scheduling and officiating. But with around 200 games every Friday night and 6 man crews, the supply simply doesn't come close to meeting demand. The supply of remotely capable officials comes much shorter.

You don't see the correlation there? Refs are in short supply because its a thankless "job" that opens you up to threats and harassment. If they were treated like human beings there may be more people willing to do the job.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Try watching people you love have years of effort taken away by officials that are either inept or outright crooked often enough, maybe it'll make more sense.

People are going to make mistakes. People yelling at them and threatening them isn't going to make that change. The purpose is just to make the harasser feel better, for people that lack power and satisfaction in their own life, they get off harassing people who can't do anything back.

Do you get mad at the "people you love" making mistakes when they play sports? Does that also ruin the experience for you? Maybe the refs should start yelling at the athletes when they fuck up. I don't see what the difference is. When you play or officiate a game you're going to a bunch of things will and some thing not so well. Missing a call in real time isn't any different than missing a tackle or missing the man you're supposed to cover on a play.

If it's so easy to get all the calls right to the satisfaction of everyone, why is there a ref shortage? Where are the refs that can do this well? I've never heard a good answer to that. For a group of people to be objectively terrible there must be, for the criticism to be valid, someone, somewhere, that can do it to everyone's satisfaction.

I think every youth sports coach or super-parent should have to volunteer a stint as a ref.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

People are going to make mistakes.

At the current rate, many shouldn't be doing the job. I'd take 7 day a week scheduling over the current situation.

There are weeks where the sheer ineptitude renders the games almost unwatchable. We're not simply talking the occasional missed/bad call, we're talking about it's become not unusual to have one official tell the sidelines that "I don't know what he's doing, we're trying but we can only fix so much". At least on those nights you know you have some honesty in the crew.

Even competent clock operators (by rule here, a registered official) are even hard to find for playoff games (when the schedules are much lighter) at this point. And again, I'm not talking about a one off mistake that goes with having humans involved, I'm talking about persistent & consistent errors over the course of long stretches. (The kind where the white hat looks into the press box with his arms outstretched to the heavens in the universal WTF gesture)

Over the past decade or so I consider it nothing short of a miracle that post-game shootings aren't commonplace. And that's an outright tribute to the enormous restraint on the part of the fans.

Do you get mad at the "people you love" making mistakes when they play sports?

Depends on the nature of the mistake.

I respect good officials, and they get an amount of leeway for human error but regard the bad ones with nothing but contempt. And that's putting it mildly. The system for managing them here seems to have collapsed under its own weight & is in dire need of an overhaul though -- given the state of the broader administration of sports here -- I'm not even sure where it should land. You know it's bad when there seems to be a legitimate chance that the state legislature could do a better job than the current system.