2014 NFL Regular Season, Week 2

[ColtCrazy]

Ok, I'm still hoarse from last night. I know it's already been discuss here, but seeing as I didn't make it home till 2 and was comatose most of the day, here I go.
The back to back calls in the 4th were some of the worst calls I've seen since my dad and I started going to Colts games in 1987. Just atrocious. That said, as pitiful as the Colts D tackled Sproles (the ultimate Colt killer) I'm not sure they deserved to win….but they still should have won. Up 10 with 5 to play and it's a different game. With all the negativity of the week and that horrid game last night, I hated the NFL with a passion for a bit. Better now, but wow that game just sucked.
I hate Sproles probably as much as I hate Brady, but the guy can ball. He and McCoy are just amazing to watch in the open field.

[EagleFan]

Horse collar was weak call but the other call was the right non call. Though we can talk about Maclin having his leg grabbed and tripped up by the DB and no flag... if you want to talk about non calls...

You should really be mad at your coach. Game tied 27-27 with over 2 minutes left, Colts with the ball and that is the series of plays he comes up with?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Blue Moon has a ridiculous streak going with their sales. Just announced a 75th consecutive quarter of growth.

They sold 75 six packs last quarter... 76 next quarter...

[BillJasper]

I starting to feel slimy watching pro and college sports anymore. Watching Schooled on Netflix.

[Glengoyne]

Ok so I just saw a quick replay from the Denver and KC game. The Alex Smith forward pass while his elbows were pinned to his side. Seriously?

Was that possibly the biggest botched review ever? Or was the short snippet I saw somehow deceptive?

That was awful. Did Phil Luckett do the review? Are they still letting him do that?

[mckerney]

Vikings deactivate Adrian Peterson indefinitely - NFL.com

Finally the right decision, but what a shit show to get there the last two days.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Vikings deactivate Adrian Peterson indefinitely - NFL.com

Finally the right decision, but what a shit show to get there the last two days.

I think they were trying to deal with roster rules and ensure that he could be exempt from counting against the 53 before they made the move. I'm not at all sure about that but in trying to make sense of how they went about this, that is what I came up with.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I think they were trying to deal with roster rules and ensure that he could be exempt from counting against the 53 before they made the move. I'm not at all sure about that but in trying to make sense of how they went about this, that is what I came up with.

If you're trying to deal with roster rules, you don't stand up there and say what really might be the dumbest quote of all time, "We also feel strongly as an organization that this is disciplining a child".

[mrtourette]

The situation hads turned into a debate about disciplining a child, which is (potentially deliberately) clouding what he actually did. People are defending him as if they are defending their right to physically discipline their child, when what they should actually be doing is defending what he did.

I would ask Rick Spielman, other members of the Vikings organisation and anyone defending him to look at those pictures and confirm that what he did to that child was an acceptable form of discipline. Not whether physically disciplining a child is acceptable, but whether what he did is acceptable.

Is it ever acceptable to strip a four year old child, remove the leaves from a branch/switch, put them into the child's mouth, and then repeatedly hit the child to the point of breaking the skin on various places (legs, bottom, scrotum) as well as on the hands where the child was trying to defend himself?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Ok so I just saw a quick replay from the Denver and KC game. The Alex Smith forward pass while his elbows were pinned to his side. Seriously?

Was that possibly the biggest botched review ever? Or was the short snippet I saw somehow deceptive?

That was awful. Did Phil Luckett do the review? Are they still letting him do that?

If I know what play you're talking about, it was definitely a forward pass.

[Qwikshot]

Glad they benched AP.

Sorry for being a threadjack.

The reality is that he shouldn't be playing football for a while. I'm not saying ban him, I am saying that keeping him off the field for a /significant/ time sets a precedent that no matter how talented you are, no matter how vital you think you are to a team, that if you do violence off the field to /anyone/ that is not justified, that you should not be playing the game.

I know that it's absurd to think that athletes playing such a violent sport may not be able to turn off.

I know that it's more pressure to athletes who have basically been raised and trained to be professional athletes to provide for their impoverished families and/or friends.

I know that football unlike most sports has a very short shelf life for its players and its crucial to play the best to get the best money for as long as you are useful before you are used up and spit out.

But it goes back to my initial post about this:

1) You are a pro athlete that could do damage to most people, let alone a 4 year old.
2) You had a child (albeit briefly aware of his presence) murdered by violence.
3) You are not a poor person trying to protect your children from violence on the street.

To do such actions, it's insane.

Side note: Yahoo posted an article about a mountain climbing family taking pictures of their baby (looks to be just crawling or rolling) near the edge of a 2000 feet drop cliff. I would be remiss if I would say that this parents need to be yelled at to for making a very poor decision.

[Lathum]

Parents put baby at risk atop Pulpit Rock - GrindTV.com

umm, yeah...I have been closer to my kids than any of those parents are and they have fallen of the couch.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by mrtourette

The situation hads turned into a debate about disciplining a child, which is (potentially deliberately) clouding what he actually did. People are defending him as if they are defending their right to physically discipline their child, when what they should actually be doing is defending what he did.

I would ask Rick Spielman, other members of the Vikings organisation and anyone defending him to look at those pictures and confirm that what he did to that child was an acceptable form of discipline. Not whether physically disciplining a child is acceptable, but whether what he did is acceptable.

Is it ever acceptable to strip a four year old child, remove the leaves from a branch/switch, put them into the child's mouth, and then repeatedly hit the child to the point of breaking the skin on various places (legs, bottom, scrotum) as well as on the hands where the child was trying to defend himself?

He did answer all that. He knew the story, read the indictment, had access to the pictures..."we saw everything in the file" is I believe the phrase he used. And his answer was that, as an organization, they believed this was disciplining a child.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by lungs

Gimme a Schlitz!

Iron City!

Just kidding. Yuengling or Sam Adams is my "normal, stock in the fridge" beer. Before I moved I used to get Highland Razor Wit (Asheville, NC) for my "show off" beer.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Parents put baby at risk atop Pulpit Rock - GrindTV.com

umm, yeah...I have been closer to my kids than any of those parents are and they have fallen of the couch.

Yup!

[Lathum]

Bettor loses $100K payday off of $5 bet with Philadelphia Eagles' last-second win - ESPN

[BillJasper]

I have to say that I like Adrian Peterson, I understand that where you come from can have a powerful effect on one's actions. I hope that he learns from these mistakes and can become a father that can take care of his kids without the physical abuse.

I think accepting being on the exempt list is a positive first step for him taking accountability for his actions.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Bettor loses $100K payday off of $5 bet with Philadelphia Eagles' last-second win - ESPN

God I hope he was smart enough to hedge that.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I have to say that I like Adrian Peterson, I understand that where you come from can have a powerful effect on one's actions. I hope that he learns from these mistakes and can become a father that can take care of his kids without the physical abuse.

I think accepting being on the exempt list is a positive first step for him taking accountability for his actions.

Yes, kudos to him for accepting his game checks while sitting on his ass.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yes, kudos to him for accepting his game checks while sitting on his ass.

Yep. Taking many weeks off while continuing to collect $11.75m seems like quite the deal, especially for a position like a RB who only has so many carries in him. I expect that somewhere here he'll donate a game check to some child abuse foundation, but that still leaves him $11m.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yes, kudos to him for accepting his game checks while sitting on his ass.

If any of us had the same leverage, we wouldn't act any differently. At least I know I wouldn't.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I have to say that I like Adrian Peterson, I understand that where you come from can have a powerful effect on one's actions. I hope that he learns from these mistakes and can become a father that can take care of his kids without the physical abuse.

I think accepting being on the exempt list is a positive first step for him taking accountability for his actions.

If you need to "learn" that beating the shit out of your kid with a switch is unacceptable then you have no business being a parent.

Some parts of being a parent you should just know.

[molson]

I don't have any problem with him getting paid. I'd be more than content if the league can get past the mindset that constitutional rights regarding crime and punishment are the same rights someone should have when it comes to playing football. I don't want teams and leagues parading these guys out there on Sunday and celebrating their on-field success while violent criminal charges loom in the background, and if we can get to that point faster if these guys still get paid, then fine.

[Matthean]

I miss the days of when talking about the NFL was talking about football.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Lathum

If you need to "learn" that beating the shit out of your kid with a switch is unacceptable then you have no business being a parent.

You'd probably eliminate a good portion of the population with that statement.

I got the shit beat out of me and it was out right abuse. My wife, born in Indiana and raised in Alabama, got it plenty of times with a switch from her aunt that helped raise her and she doesn't seem to resent it at all.

Doesn't make it right but upbringing plays a huge part, for good or ill, in the decisions you make as a parent. I could have easily grown into an abusive parent as I have quite a temper. I made a conscious decision that that wasn't the way that I wanted to raise our kids. It doesn't make it right but I can easily see how someone can fall into that trap. Especially if your family and support system were raised the same way that you were.

Adrian Peterson seems like someone that may be able to break that behavior with the right support.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I miss the days of when talking about the NFL was talking about football.

+1,000

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

You'd probably eliminate a good portion of the population with that statement.
.

IMO a large part of the population has no business being parents. People who brutally abuse their children and call it discipline fall under that umbrella.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Matthean

I miss the days of when talking about the NFL was talking about football.

What do you want to talk about?

No reason why both can't be discussed.

I think Stafford has a huge week this week and they get Ebron more involved.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

You'd probably eliminate a good portion of the population with that statement.

I got the shit beat out of me and it was out right abuse. My wife, born in Indiana and raised in Alabama, got it plenty of times with a switch from her aunt that helped raise her and she doesn't seem to resent it at all.

Doesn't make it right but upbringing plays a huge part, for good or ill, in the decisions you make as a parent. I could have easily grown into an abusive parent as I have quite a temper. I made a conscious decision that that wasn't the way that I wanted to raise our kids. It doesn't make it right but I can easily see how someone can fall into that trap. Especially if your family and support system were raised the same way that you were.

Adrian Peterson seems like someone that may be able to break that behavior with the right support.

There's SO many things that happened in our parents' and grandparents' generations that we shouldn't repeat. Let's just start with racial and sexual preference tolerances. Nobody's willing to be so forgiving when those are the attitudes someone grew up with and retained.

(I'm not at all saying you're using that as an excuse to defend Peterson, so this isn't an attack on you here).

[MacroGuru]

I am at a different mindset than most it seems. Do I agree with what Ray Rice and AP have done...absolutely not. To me, the fact of what their job entails puts them up on a higher pedestal, makes everything high profile.

Can you imagine being called out daily by the press for some of the stupid shit you have done? Can you imagine losing your job over shit that happened in your personal life that has no bearing on how you perform your job (I know contracts, clauses and employee handbooks, etc..) . Society and the rapid response and immediate access to it makes everyone Guilty before innocent and roasts them. To me, what we have no is tantamount to the modern day witch hunt...

Do I feel that Ray and AP should lose their livelihood over their actions, absolutely not. They should be punished within the confines of the law and allow to move on with their lives, just like we do, as ordinary citizens.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

There's SO many things that happened in our parents' and grandparents' generations that we shouldn't repeat. Let's just start with racial and sexual preference tolerances. Nobody's willing to be so forgiving when those are the attitudes someone grew up with and retained.

I agree 100% that we shouldn't repeat mistakes. The problem becomes that in many communities and families these aren't seen as mistakes. These things are seen as being the way things simply are.

So I think it is a non-starter to say everyone should "simply know better".

I hate to be seen as someone defending a child abuser, but these things are simply more complicated than many people want to admit. Adrian Peterson should be suspended and maybe should do some time behind bars but he should also be taught where he went wrong and hopefully he can see that what he grew up knowing as "right" simply isn't.

[molson]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Can you imagine losing your job over shit that happened in your personal life that has no bearing on how you perform your job (I know contracts, clauses and employee handbooks, etc..) .

I'm still kind of curious how prevalent this is. I've never had a job where I wouldn't be fired immediately if I was charged with a violent crime. My employer wouldn't wait around to see things play out or give me due process. Of course, this is almost all some manner of public employment, or entities that work with public agencies.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Can you imagine losing your job over shit that happened in your personal life that has no bearing on how you perform your job.

So if you were involved in a domestic violence situation that was on the news, or a DUI, manslaughter, child endangerment case, etc...you would be able to go to work the next day like nothing happened?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

I am at a different mindset than most it seems. Do I agree with what Ray Rice and AP have done...absolutely not. To me, the fact of what their job entails puts them up on a higher pedestal, makes everything high profile.

Can you imagine being called out daily by the press for some of the stupid shit you have done? Can you imagine losing your job over shit that happened in your personal life that has no bearing on how you perform your job (I know contracts, clauses and employee handbooks, etc..) . Society and the rapid response and immediate access to it makes everyone Guilty before innocent and roasts them. To me, what we have no is tantamount to the modern day witch hunt...

Do I feel that Ray and AP should lose their livelihood over their actions, absolutely not. They should be punished within the confines of the law and allow to move on with their lives, just like we do, as ordinary citizens.

Being a public figure is a double-edged sword. People talk about how you can't compare "real life" to "sports life", because they are two different worlds. These athletes get all sorts of benefits and privileges normal people would never even dream of. The flip-side to that, however, is that they are public figures and image is very, very important.

They are representatives of the NFL, which is a brand and that brand's image is paramount to its financial success. It's not that different than the Donald Sterling situation. He didn't even commit any crimes. He simply had a private conversation with his girlfriend recorded and broadcast to the world. That hit to the NBA's image was enough to force him to sell the team.

Same thing with Peterson and Rice pretty much. The NFL and the respective teams were taking too much of a PR hit to keep them around.

However, I don't think we even need to make that sports vs. real life distinction here. This kind of thing does happen to normal, everyday people.

For example, what's going on with Rice and Peterson is no different than what happened to the CEO of Centerplate who was caught on video kicking and choking that dog in the elevator. That was a purely private moment, didn't even involve another human being, but the company was taking so much heat for what happened they HAD TO FIRE HIM.

So, in fact, I think your premise is a bit wrong. People, regular people, non-athletes, do lose their jobs for things that happen in their personal lives. If I were caught on camera beating my dog and it some how got out on TV or the internet, I am pretty damn sure I'd get fired. Or let's say I attended some racist party or dressed up in some horribly offensive costume and that some how got put on the internet or Facebook and caused a bit of a stir and got back to my employer. It's very likely I'd get fired for that too.

As an attorney, I could get disbarred for "shit that happened in my personal life that has no bearing on how I perform my job" if it rose to a criminal level and I would definitely get fired for that.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So if you were involved in a domestic violence situation that was on the news, or a DUI, manslaughter, child endangerment case, etc...you would be able to go to work the next day like nothing happened?

everything but the manslaughter....people do it, and they have to put up with the stigma from then on, but they don't lose their job unless they are in a public service role for govt, etc....

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

For example, what's going on with Rice and Peterson is no different than what happened to the CEO of Centerplate who was caught on video kicking and choking that dog in the elevator. That was a purely private moment, didn't even involve another human being, but the company was taking so much heat for what happened they HAD TO FIRE HIM.

So, in fact, I think your premise is a bit wrong. People, regular people, non-athletes, do lose their jobs for things that happen in their personal lives. If I were caught on camera beating my dog and it some how got out on TV or the internet, I am pretty damn sure I'd get fired. Or let's say I attended some racist party or dressed up in some horribly offensive costume and that some how got put on the internet or Facebook and caused a bit of a stir and got back to my employer. It's very likely I'd get fired for that too.

But here is where I am saying that the issue is now the social media and immediate access to stuff. Shit like the CEO stuff went on long before it was shown, and yes they got away with it, the reason no one can in this day an age is because of social media and the witch hunts that follow....I understand sports vs real life and I don't equate CEOs as ordinary people, they are the public face of a company, they are the sports stars of the business world.

I just guess I see things differently than most. I am against what they did, just don't think they should be roasted like they are.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

If you need to "learn" that beating the shit out of your kid with a switch is unacceptable then you have no business being a parent. Some parts of being a parent you should just know.

There are lots -- and I mean LOTS -- of parents who would argue that failure to exercise that option, when necessary or effective, has been exponentially far more damaging to society than all of the abuse in the history of the world.

[flounder]

The south has a much higher rate of corporal punishment. It also has a much higher rate of violent crime. That doesn't prove causation, but the correlation goes against the argument that failing to hit your child is damaging society.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flounder

The south has a much higher rate of corporal punishment. It also has a much higher rate of violent crime. That doesn't prove causation, but the correlation goes against the argument that failing to hit your child is damaging society.

Only region (perhaps parts of the midwest) remotely fit to live afaic.

YMMV, but increasingly the last bastion of values worth the name.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Only region (perhaps parts of the midwest) remotely fit to live afaic.

This is such utter bullshit.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Only region (perhaps parts of the midwest) remotely fit to live afaic.

YMMV, but increasingly the last bastion of values worth the name.

LMAO

Values such as beating your kid?

Not surprising coming from you.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by flounder

The south has a much higher rate of corporal punishment. It also has a much higher rate of violent crime. That doesn't prove causation, but the correlation goes against the argument that failing to hit your child is damaging society.

Likewise violent crime and murder rates in America are down to nearly half of where they were 20-30 years ago. Today's kids may be tagged as undisciplined, disrespectful pussies, but they're also remarkably safer and less violent than the generations that came before them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

This is such utter bullshit.

Not to those who feel that way.

The uber left northwest / left coast? The nearly as radicalized northeast?
There's a lot of people who'd sooner die -- literally -- than live in those places. (same can be said in reverse, not like it's a one way street here)

Like prefers like, that's just a simple rule of human behavior. I have about as much in common with a (stereo)typical 23 y/o from Portland as I have with, I dunno, a toaster.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by flounder

The south has a much higher rate of corporal punishment. It also has a much higher rate of violent crime. That doesn't prove causation, but the correlation goes against the argument that failing to hit your child is damaging society.

It also has a much higher rate of poverty, but I am not so sure that you would argue that these were related. I tend to think the poverty and state of the educational system in much of the South has much more to do with the violent crime rate than corporal punishment.

Though you could argue that the educational system and the corporal punishment rate are related, I would think.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

LMAO

Values such as beating your kid?

Not surprising coming from you.

Ignorance and violence go together like peas and carrots!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not to those who feel that way.

The uber left northwest / left coast? The nearly as radicalized northeast?
There's a lot of people who'd sooner die -- literally -- than live in those places. (same can be said in reverse, not like it's a one way street here)

Like prefers like, that's just a simple rule of human behavior. I have about as much in common with a (stereo)typical 23 y/o from Portland as I have with, I dunno, a toaster.

Yep - people who confront you with different opinions and make different choices are SCARY hmm Jon?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Like prefers like, that's just a simple rule of human behavior. I have about as much in common with a (stereo)typical 23 y/o from Portland as I have with, I dunno, a toaster.

On the other hand, head 20 minutes out of Portland in any direction, and you'd feel right at home. Oregon's weird like that. Outside of Portland (and Eugene?), the rest of the state is largely conservative rural farmers. I've met numerous rural Oregonians who have never left the state but somehow have a weird bastardized southern drawl.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yep - people who confront you with different opinions and make different choices are SCARY hmm Jon?

Only in terms of how often / to what extent they can be so dead wrong.
Otherwise it's just a mix of pity & contempt, tinged with sadness.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There are lots -- and I mean LOTS -- of parents who would argue that failure to exercise that option, when necessary or effective, has been exponentially far more damaging to society than all of the abuse in the history of the world.

hw exactly is it more damaging?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I tend to think the poverty and state of the educational system in much of the South has much more to do with the violent crime rate than corporal punishment.
.

I think this is an odd statement.

It seems to me violence is a learned behavior. Children, as far as I know, aren't born as violent beings, they learn that from someone. If you are beaten for your wrongdoings from a young age you learn to respond with violence when someone does you wrong.

If violence is an everyday part of life, violent acts don't seem out of place in your world.

I grew up in New Jersey. I was spanked but thats about it. No one ever taught me in school it isn't OK to assault others, it was just something I knew was wrong, likely learned from observing adults around me.