The Official 2017-18 NBA Regular Season Thread

[miami_fan]

Kevin Love better have copies of the X-rays ready for the rest of the team.

The X-ray on Kevin Love's left hand revealed a non-displaced fracture in his left hand fifth metacarpal. Love will not return to play tonight. His status will be updated after additional examination and consultation tomorrow in Cleveland, per the Cavs.

— Dave McMenamin (@mcten) January 31, 2018

[nol]

I think the East all-stars are decimated enough that Blake Griffin is next in line for them.

[Atocep]

Harden with a 60 point triple double tonight.

[Shkspr]

In other news, Isaiah Canaan apparently received word that LeBron James had nominated him to the All-Star team before tonight's game against the Mavs. Destiny ensued.

[nol]

Bulls send Mirotic and a 2nd to Pelicans for Omer Asik, Tony Allen and a 1st. Bulls are probably the worst team in the league now between this and Zach LaVine coming back from injury.

Omer Asik cost the Pelicans a first-round pick to acquire, a first-round pick to dump, a big contract while he was there and did nothing for them as the team has won zero playoff games since 2011 - the price of trying to skip steps when building around Davis. Mirotic should be good enough to keep them in the playoffs and will help the depth if Cousins comes back; the Pelicans could do with centers what the Rockets do with point guards.

[Logan]

nol am I imagining things or weren't you off the board for a while?

[Neuqua]

I think I get the logic from the Bulls side. They've probably played their way out of a top 3 pick over the last couple months. If they end up with picks 7 and 17, they can possibly package the two to try to get into the top 5 to land one of the studs.

Only have to pay Asik this year and next, and we're way below the floor anyway.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Logan

nol am I imagining things or weren't you off the board for a while?

Yes, I got banned for like six months because I made a post in the Trump thread telling someone that constantly resorting to both sides-ism betrays a lack of nuance and critical thinking (no profanity or anything, it apparently just “wasn’t civil”). Don’t remember exactly when it happened but it was a couple weeks before Charlottesville.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Harden with a 60 point triple double tonight.

No love from anyone else for an all-time NBA first? Yeesh...tough crowd.

Originally Posted by Shkspr

In other news, Isaiah Canaan apparently received word that LeBron James had nominated him to the All-Star team before tonight's game against the Mavs. Destiny ensued.

He was averaging 8 points and 4 assists in 20 games...and he was going to the ASG?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

No love from anyone else for an all-time NBA first? Yeesh...tough crowd.

I thought we decided that triple doubles were insignificant last year.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

He was averaging 8 points and 4 assists in 20 games...and he was going to the ASG?

It was a prank call, but enough to put him on the List.

[stevew]

Is this Joakim Noah deal one of the worst in sports history? It's like he's the Bossman Jr putting up .175 batting averages.

[nol]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is this Joakim Noah deal one of the worst in sports history? It's like he's the Bossman Jr putting up .175 batting averages.

I’m old enough to remember when Austin Rivers was the worst free agent signing of 2016. Not Noah, not Mogzov, not Deng, not Biyombo, not Evan Turner, not Jamal Crawford, but someone who signed for half as much money and is actually an average NBA player.

[miami_fan]

That Porzingis video does not look good.

[Shkspr]

Add one to the List.

[stevew]

Lou Williams only getting 3 years and 24 million dollars with a partial guarantee on the third year seems like too little money.

I don't know why the Knicks traded Willy hernangomez. At the price of two number two picks he seems like an excellent risk

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

Lou Williams only getting 3 years and 24 million dollars with a partial guarantee on the third year seems like too little money.

I don't know why the Knicks traded Willy hernangomez. At the price of two number two picks he seems like an excellent risk

It's a little surprising, but he is 31 and the market this summer is going to be very very rough for free agents.

After last season, trading Hernangomez for that does seem light, but I also don't understand why they weren't playing him more.

Isaiah, Cleveland 1st this year (protected, not sure how), and Channing Frye to the Lakers for Jordan Clarkson & Larry Nance. Didn't see that one coming, good on the Lakers to move Clarkson's contract while actually getting a 1st & not sending picks with it, even if they had to attach Nance.

[albionmoonlight]

Lakers need to make a big FA splash to maintain their Lakerness.

Boogie?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Lakers need to make a big FA splash to maintain their Lakerness.

Boogie?

Bro, they're totally getting LeBron & Paul George!

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by stevew

Lou Williams only getting 3 years and 24 million dollars with a partial guarantee on the third year seems like too little money.

I don't know why the Knicks traded Willy hernangomez. At the price of two number two picks he seems like an excellent risk

And why trade him now that minutes are free due to KP's injury? I'm sure he'd still be worth two seconds this summer and might show something that gets a better return.

[MrBug708]

Good deal for the Lakers

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

This is no different what I already said, which is that even 6% is a tenfold increase at getting into the top 3 compared to what the odds are as the best lottery team and that at the very least, it's a nice fringe benefit to trading Griffin when I would not have expected any takers for him.

I so missed these "debates" during your hiatus...

Are you still holding on to the Clippers improving their lottery odds with the Griffin trade, or are you ready to admit that it was about moving Griffin's contract and had nothing to do with draft position this year? They're a team that's now acquired Gallinari, Harris, Teodosic, possibly Bradley (who might be moved today), and re-signed Lou Williams in the past 9 months, which is exactly the roster construction that will put you in 7th-10th in the conference.

They think that's a better bet to getting back into championship contention than going the full future asset over current value route, and maybe LA with Ballmer willing to spend and Jerry West to arrange meetings can pull it off, but it's clear what route they've chosen.

I get that he used to play for the Celtics but he's not good. His RPM is -2.98 (3rd worst of SGs who play more than 20 minutes a game) and for an alleged defensive specialist there's a pretty substantial track record of his teams defending better overall when he's not on the court. Signing both Bradley and Williams long-term would have the Clippers in the luxury tax for what would be a low-tier playoff team in the event a bunch of older players managed to stay healthy and avoid decline, which would obviously be a pretty dumb proposition.

Bradley did used to play for the Celtics! And I was one of the fans who understood why it made more sense for him to be traded than Smart last summer and wasn't too upset to see him leave, because he will likely get overpaid this summer (though the way people talk about the market gets gloomier and gloomier every day). But he's still a good NBA rotation player (albeit one who should not have the usage rate he had in Detroit) and a good on-ball defender who would pair nicely with guards like Teodosic and LouWill who can't defend PG's for their life. RPM can be a nice data point, and it does indicate he's not as good on defense as his biggest supporters claim, but strictly using that is how you end up with people claiming Jae Crowder is a top 10 SF last offseason. We'll see if he gets moved today or not, but I'm willing to trust the Spurs player evaluation over RPM numbers in a vacuum.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And why trade him now that minutes are free due to KP's injury? I'm sure he'd still be worth two seconds this summer and might show something that gets a better return.

Apparently some in the organization didn't like that he & KP spoke together in Spanish occasionally? Idk, somehow even with Phil gone that organization still seems to be doing random things to annoy their alleged franchise player.

2nd HUGE deal for Cleveland. They're getting Rodney Hood & George Hill while shipping out Crowder, Shumpert & "Derek" Rose according to Woj. Also sending Dwyane Wade back to Miami. This has to be the record for most players traded on one in season day for a top 4 team in their conference.

[BishopMVP]

Gotta say I like the overall moves from Cleveland today. The break from GM LeBron is real, and replacing his big name friends (and IT/Crowder) with younger, more athletic wings (plus JR Smith staying) should make them better for the rest of the season. Not sure it'll end up making a material difference in May unless they can add another big on the buyout market or Tristan Thompson can get back to his old self, but to do all this while holding on to the Brooklyn pick is pretty nice.

[Logan]

Who knows how it works out but I give them credit for trying. Sure as hell didn't seem to be working as is.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I so missed these "debates" during your hiatus...

Are you still holding on to the Clippers improving their lottery odds with the Griffin trade, or are you ready to admit that it was about moving Griffin's contract and had nothing to do with draft position this year? They're a team that's now acquired Gallinari, Harris, Teodosic, possibly Bradley (who might be moved today), and re-signed Lou Williams in the past 9 months, which is exactly the roster construction that will put you in 7th-10th in the conference.

They think that's a better bet to getting back into championship contention than going the full future asset over current value route, and maybe LA with Ballmer willing to spend and Jerry West to arrange meetings can pull it off, but it's clear what route they've chosen.
Bradley did used to play for the Celtics! And I was one of the fans who understood why it made more sense for him to be traded than Smart last summer and wasn't too upset to see him leave, because he will likely get overpaid this summer (though the way people talk about the market gets gloomier and gloomier every day). But he's still a good NBA rotation player (albeit one who should not have the usage rate he had in Detroit) and a good on-ball defender who would pair nicely with guards like Teodosic and LouWill who can't defend PG's for their life. RPM can be a nice data point, and it does indicate he's not as good on defense as his biggest supporters claim, but strictly using that is how you end up with people claiming Jae Crowder is a top 10 SF last offseason. We'll see if he gets moved today or not, but I'm willing to trust the Spurs player evaluation over RPM numbers in a vacuum.

You might be waiting for a while on a response.

[stevew]

Thank Christ we moved the midget elsewhere. And also dumped Jae Crowder at the same time. Maybe we're fucked, but fuck both of those guys.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Apparently some in the organization didn't like that he & KP spoke together in Spanish occasionally? Idk, somehow even with Phil gone that organization still seems to be doing random things to annoy their alleged franchise player.

2nd HUGE deal for Cleveland. They're getting Rodney Hood & George Hill while shipping out Crowder, Shumpert & "Derek" Rose according to Woj. Also sending Dwyane Wade back to Miami. This has to be the record for most players traded on one in season day for a top 4 team in their conference.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...802220CLE.html

I still remember this game. Cavs had 2 bench guys that pretty much never played again after that week stretch.

[stevew]

Kendrick Perkins back to the Cavs, lol

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

Thank Christ we moved the midget elsewhere. And also dumped Jae Crowder at the same time. Maybe we're fucked, but fuck both of those guys.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, somebody help me understand this one. (all of this just "reportedly" at this point I guess)

Hawks acquire Sheldon Mac from Wizards for cash.
Hawks plan to waive Mac (who is out for the year with an injury anyway).

Surely there has to be some sort of cap benefit or something for Atlanta on that deal, something other than future goodwill from WAS down the line ... right?

[stevew]

Wade and Frye were the only guys out of the 6 that we traded today that were above replacement level. I like Nance, Clarkson shoots too many garbage 3s. Hill and Hood are better than the trash they're replacing.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, somebody help me understand this one. (all of this just "reportedly" at this point I guess)

Hawks acquire Sheldon Mac from Wizards for cash.
Hawks plan to waive Mac (who is out for the year with an injury anyway).

Surely there has to be some sort of cap benefit or something for Atlanta on that deal, something other than future goodwill from WAS down the line ... right?

Assuming that the Hawks are getting something for this, probably all of the cash to pay his salary and then several hundred grand extra. Wash was saving 2.5 or so in luxury tax.

And how confusing is it that Sheldon Mac and Shelvin Mack both exist?

[korme]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, somebody help me understand this one. (all of this just "reportedly" at this point I guess)

Hawks acquire Sheldon Mac from Wizards for cash.
Hawks plan to waive Mac (who is out for the year with an injury anyway).

Surely there has to be some sort of cap benefit or something for Atlanta on that deal, something other than future goodwill from WAS down the line ... right?

Originally Posted by HOOPS RUMORS

By moving Mac, the Wizards will reduce their projected luxury tax bill and will open up a spot on their 15-man roster in case they want to get involved in the buyout market. The Hawks, meanwhile, will likely receive enough cash in the deal from Washington to cover the remaining portion of Mac’s salary.

Actually, I can't find anything that suggests otherwise. It looks like goodwill might be the case here.

[stevew]

I think if Wash was paying 2.5m into the luxury tax, all the teams under would be hacking that apart, so as long as Atlanta got something like 100k more than Mac's salary, they won on the balance sheet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, the Mac deal may make more sense now than it did on the first two reports.

What I saw on both ESPN and in the AJC was "Hawks acquire Mac for cash"

What I'm seeing now in other rumors says "Hawks get Mac and cash, for a provisional 2nd round pick"

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

Wade and Frye were the only guys out of the 6 that we traded today that were above replacement level. I like Nance, Clarkson shoots too many garbage 3s. Hill and Hood are better than the trash they're replacing.

Wade is toxic as hell and Thomas reverted back to his old bullshit while playing less defense than ever.

Overall I don't think Cleveland did bad today. Shipping Wade and Thomas out is probably addition by subtraction.

I'm not convinced Lue has a clue what he's doing, but Cleveland is probably a bit better overall when you look at the guys leaving compared to those coming in. If Lebron leaves they're fucked though.

[miami_fan]

Just checking in to find out when the Cavs will be showing the I.T. tribute video.

[jbergey22]

I guess the Cavs werent impressed with Isaiah Thomas. They now have a team that blends in nicely with Lebron and how a strong Lebron James team is built. If only they could have gotten Jordan.

-They still need a second scoring option and some sort of low post threat. Lebron will like playing with this team which will make them better.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Just checking in to find out when the Cavs will be showing the I.T. tribute video.

It's really short and loud and not as good as people want to say it is.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

It's really short and loud and not as good as people want to say it is.

But people paid a lot of money to make it lol

[Groundhog]

TBH, I think the Cavs did great unless it turns out that the problem is less the guys traded away than it is the guys that are still there (which I'm 55% sure is the case).

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You might be waiting for a while on a response.

Awww, but he seemed so chastened by his previous suspension. Too bad, the antagonism was over the top, but he added some life to these threads.

Originally Posted by stevew

Assuming that the Hawks are getting something for this, probably all of the cash to pay his salary and then several hundred grand extra. Wash was saving 2.5 or so in luxury tax.

And how confusing is it that Sheldon Mac and Shelvin Mack both exist?

I'll admit I was confused why people kept egregiously misspelling Shelvin Mack... but it's even more confusing once you realize Sheldon Mac was Sheldon McClellan who played at Texas then Miami, but legally changed his surname last year because it came from his father with whom he has no relationship (at least according to Wikipedia, and who am I to doubt Wikipedia?)

[stevew]

A day later, I really like this Cavaliers team. If or when LeBron leaves this offseason, we should at least get some sort of solid Wing in the draft. I don't think that you'd have to burn It to the Ground this time. Especially if you get the top 4, any of those guys could plug and play with what we have and our team would win 45 or so games and make the playoffs

[miami_fan]

Semi serious question. How great does the player picked with the Brooklyn pick have to be to not be considered a bust? Between the Celtics and the Cavs, the buildup for this pick has been exhausting.

[stevew]

I mean he's not going to be as good as Kyrie Irving not even close

[Groundhog]

I think I'd draft Luka Doncic over any American this coming draft.

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

I mean he's not going to be as good as Kyrie Irving not even close

How do you know that?

[miami_fan]

Dear Basketball Gods,

Please add Derrick Rose to the Wizards locker room. Thanks.

Signed,
People that will miss the chaos of the pre trade deadline Cavs locker room.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

A day later, I really like this Cavaliers team. If or when LeBron leaves this offseason, we should at least get some sort of solid Wing in the draft. I don't think that you'd have to burn It to the Ground this time. Especially if you get the top 4, any of those guys could plug and play with what we have and our team would win 45 or so games and make the playoffs

Draft's great, but it's not wing heavy at the top after Doncic. And outside of maybe Jaren Jackson or the wild card Porter the top players (Ayton, Bagley, Young, Sexton?, Bamba?) will be so atrocious on one side of the ball they'll be negative players their rookie year. Miles Bridges would be a plug & play wing that would make sense if the BK pick ends up around 8th/9th.

I did like the Cavs moves a lot with the exception of Clarkson. Hood and Nance are nice players (though we'll see if Hood can mentally handle being LeBron's teammate.) Clarkson is better on D and won't speak out like IT did, but injured rusty IT had the same true shooting % Clarkson does for his career.

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I think I'd draft Luka Doncic over any American this coming draft.

There are respected scouts out there who think anyone who wouldn't draft Doncic #1 is an idiot... but there are also respected scouts who think you have to go with one of the NCAA bigs. To do what Doncic has at 18 for Real & at Eurobasket is crazy, and he has the highest floor, but he's merely a very good athlete and not the insane outlier you can dream on like an Ayton or Bagley (or Jackson).

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Semi serious question. How great does the player picked with the Brooklyn pick have to be to not be considered a bust? Between the Celtics and the Cavs, the buildup for this pick has been exhausting.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. If the pick ends up like 8th or the Cavs get lucky & its top 3 should the expectations be the same? Now, how good do they have to be to make the Kyrie trade not look like highway robbery is an interesting question.

PS thanks for reminding me that technically now the Celtics got Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Kyrie, and the LaKings pick in that Nets deal. If the Lakers pick conveys & we get one of those bigs this year goodness gracious that deal just gets more absurd.