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Old 03-08-2005, 02:19 PM   #401
Ksyrup
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Thanks, SD! I had no clue. I saw the ability to do some sort of .txt outputs related to your team, but I didn't know these other outputs were automatically generated.

It's not a total solution, but this goes a long way toward making the game playable, at least.
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Old 03-08-2005, 02:23 PM   #402
Ben E Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksyrup
Thanks, SD! I had no clue. I saw the ability to do some sort of .txt outputs related to your team, but I didn't know these other outputs were automatically generated.

It's not a total solution, but this goes a long way toward making the game playable, at least.
Go to League-->Options, and you can view most of these text files from within the game. As I said, I'd forgotten that it was there myself.

With that raw data in text file format, it would seem that a utility writer could do something nice with it if Clay doesn't do a full-fledged Almanac.
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Old 03-08-2005, 02:29 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spleen1015
I agree with Ksyrup. I just simmed 1901-2004, in 80 minutes, and the bad teams have always been bad and the good teams always good. The Yankees have been in the World Series 18 straight years. Oakland has won the AL West 12 years in a row.

I'm convinced that won won't win unless you're one of the big money teams unless your in a division with all middle tier teams. Don't expect to win the AL East playing against NY.


What level was that on?

i wonder if the difficult level has an affect on it?
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Old 03-08-2005, 02:35 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmagic
What level was that on?

i wonder if the difficult level has an affect on it?
Don't know about his, but all of my sims are at Mogul level.
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Old 03-08-2005, 02:43 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmagic
What level was that on?

i wonder if the difficult level has an affect on it?

I was on Coach.

I am riding go-karts with Tony Stewart tonight, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to give it a shot on a higher level.
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Old 03-08-2005, 03:05 PM   #406
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Is there a way to alleviate the amount of smugness that seems to yield from some of those doing the previewing in the game.
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Old 03-08-2005, 03:20 PM   #407
Ben E Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spleen1015
I was on Coach.

I am riding go-karts with Tony Stewart tonight, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to give it a shot on a higher level.
I have a strong suspicion that the level doesn't make a big difference in this particular area. I think the AI teams are set to spend according to their means, no matter what level you're playing.
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Old 03-08-2005, 03:54 PM   #408
Jeff Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksyrup
I originally chose the Tigers and then simmed for 80 years, and the only championship they won was 1902. They were quite bad for nearly the entire 80 years. But the Yankees were always the best (as much as I can recall). Even some other teams, I thought the number of wins per season were a little excessive. 120-130 wins was not a yearly occurrence, but fairly typical.
If you're using the Sim Multiple Seasons feature, it's not really meant for that. Clay added it a few versions ago for us GMs to see how recent aquisitions would work out. I'm pretty sure it turns off trades between AI teams and extends all expiring contracts those teams that are financially able.
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Old 03-08-2005, 03:58 PM   #409
Ksyrup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Olsen
If you're using the Sim Multiple Seasons feature, it's not really meant for that. Clay added it a few versions ago for us GMs to see how recent aquisitions would work out. I'm pretty sure it turns off trades between AI teams and extends all expiring contracts those teams that are financially able.

That would suck. I want the league to work "normally" while I fast-sim the league's history. Then, I'll take over a team and play out a career. I'm fairly certain that trades occur during this, though, because while I'm fast-simming, my team page comes up at the end of the season every year, and some of the news stories are about trades being made. However, if there is no real free agency and stuff like that during fast-simming, that would be disappointing.
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:00 PM   #410
Ben E Lou
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On difficulty levels, from the Help File:

Quote:
Difficulty: This controls the intelligence of your computer opponents during Baseball Mogul. On the lowest and highest difficulty levels, the game engine and financial model are also altered somewhat. On the 'Fan' level, you actually have an easier time being profitable than the computer-controlled opponents. But on the 'Mogul' level, the cards are stacked against you.

The levels of difficulty in Baseball Mogul are:
  • Fan (Beginner)
  • Coach (Intermediate)
  • Manager (Difficult)
  • Mogul (Very Difficult)
So, the human team gets a revenue boost at fan, and a revenue penalty at Mogul, if I'm reading this right.
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:04 PM   #411
Ben E Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Olsen
If you're using the Sim Multiple Seasons feature, it's not really meant for that. Clay added it a few versions ago for us GMs to see how recent aquisitions would work out. I'm pretty sure it turns off trades between AI teams and extends all expiring contracts those teams that are financially able.
I think you're thinking of the Tool-->Simulator button, not the Sim Multiple Seasons feature. The Simulator sims the same season as many times as you'd like, to see how acquisitions should work out. Seems like the Simulator would be fun to use for a "Season Prediction" during a dynasty thread. There are AI trades and FA signings when you Sim Multiple Seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseball Mogul Help File
SIMULATOR TOOL

The Simulator lets you simulate a season (or the remainder of a season) several times, saving the results to a file. This is useful if you wish to use Baseball Mogul to predict real-life events (such as who will be the 2002 World Champion) or to assess the impact of trades or other transactions you are considering.

First, load the file you would like to use in the Simulator (or start a new game if you would like to use the default database). Type the number of times you would like to simulate the season (up to a maximum of 1000) and click 'Simulate'.

Baseball Mogul will simulate the season, saving all results to a file called SimData.dat. To view these results, click 'View Simulation Results'. These results are displayed as follows:
Won: Average number of wins by this team.


Lost: Average number of losses by this team.

WC: Number of world championships.

LC: Number of league championships (not including world championships).

1R: Number of times the team won the 1st round of the playoffs (but failed to win a league championship).

1st: Number of times the team finished 1st in their division.

Wild: Number of times the team won the wild card (this is a subset of '2nd').

2nd: Number of times the team finished exactly 2nd in their division.

3rd: Number of times the team finished exactly 3rd in their division.

4th: Number of times the team finished exactly 4th in their division.

5th: Number of times the team finished 5th or lower in their division.

If you stop in the middle of a simulation, Baseball Mogul will save all results up to that point. You can return later and continue to simulate seasons -- Baseball Mogul will simply add the results to the previous simulations.

If you wish to clear the data from previous simulations, click 'Clear Simulation File'. (Note that if you want to save the old data, you can copy Simulator.txt to a different file).
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Old 03-08-2005, 04:05 PM   #412
Ben E Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksyrup
That would suck. I want the league to work "normally" while I fast-sim the league's history.
I'm pretty sure that it does. See my post to Jeff.
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:39 PM   #413
Jeff Olsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
I think you're thinking of the Tool-->Simulator button, not the Sim Multiple Seasons feature. The Simulator sims the same season as many times as you'd like, to see how acquisitions should work out. Seems like the Simulator would be fun to use for a "Season Prediction" during a dynasty thread. There are AI trades and FA signings when you Sim Multiple Seasons
Ah, OK. I'm at work at the moment and don't have much in the way of games here.

It does remove the human element though. I wonder if multiple season simming affects trades between AI teams and the human team(s).
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:00 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
You're correct, to a point. The problem, however, is this: the economics of the game have changed pretty radically, even since the mid-90's.

Well, perhaps. As far as competitive balance goes, it doesn't appear that we're any worse off now than many other periods in baseball history. In the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract the author uses a competitive balance metric (which is unfortunately not published in the book) and calculates competitive balance through the decades. Here's how they fall (the higher the number, the more competitively balanced):

1870's: 21%
1880's: 24%
1890's: 27%
1900's: 30%
1910's: 36%
1920's: 34%
1930's: 31%
1940's: 34%
1950's: 34%
1960's: 40%
1970's: 45%
1980's: 56%
1990's: 57%

Now, this measure seems to be based primarily on the regular season win-loss gaps between teams, so it doesn't necessarily reflect the realistic chances of winning a World Series for all teams - for example, in much of the 60's the Yankees and Dodgers dominated the playoffs. Still, as we've seen over the last 20 years, there has been quite a distribution of World Series champions. Even since the resurgence of the Yankees in '95, they've not won the World Series since 2000.

As for the games' finances, while individual things like free agency and the amateur draft have altered things in a big way, I'm not sure the overall effect is necessarily all that different. If you look at attendence figures over the history of baseball, there have always been radical differences between the most successful and the least successful teams. Keeping in mind that for much of baseball history, attendence was the biggest revenue factor, I'm not so sure that the current huge disparity between the Yankees and a team like the Devil Rays is any more pronounced than the difference between the Yankees and the St. Louis Browns in the 1930's (the Yankees outdrew the Browns by a better than 8:1 ratio in that decade).

The Yankees themselves have undergone periods of mediocrity. Why did the Yankees not dominate the 1980's? Partly because Steinbrenner didn't spend as much, mainly because the management of the team was so lousy. Who's to say that the management of the Yankees may not suffer again in the future, or that Steinbrenner (or his eventual replacement) will continue to spend outrageously?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog
As I mentioned earlier, the days of the bidding war are virtually over. Teams trade players away but pay huge portions of their salaries. Top-tier players only bother talking to 2 or 3 teams during free agency. These are very recent developments (like 2000 and beyond), and I don't really see them changing until there are radical changes in the game's rules.

Contrary to popular belief, the Yankees aren't involved in bidding for every free agent. Who set the tone for free agent spending this offseason? The financially strapped Arizona Diamondbacks. Yes, certain teams don't get involved in bidding for the high-profile free agents, but those certain teams aren't always the same each season.

Also in the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract was the following prediction for the future of baseball:

Quote:
"History shows that nothing more clearly than that one cannot anticipate history. This is true, I think, because many of the things that we all know turn out, when put to the test, to be untrue, or to be true only up to a point.

Having said that, four things about the future of baseball seem so obvious to me that I am willing to put them on record in a hardcover book, so that the next generation of sportswriters can make fun of me twenty years from now. Those four things are:

1. That baseball will eventually solve or contain the problem of economics corroding competitive balance."

His explanation for this particular prediction was as follows:

Quote:
"...Baseball will eventually solve or contain the problem of free agency destroying competitive balance because:

a. The historical trend in all sports and across many decades is towards ever greater competitive balance.
b. There are obvious solutions to the problem.
c. If the obvious solutions are not adopted sonner, the problem will become so acute that they will have to be adopted later.

Broad, powerful forces in sports and society tend to level competition within any fixed group. The details of negotiated contracts can obstruct that process for a period of time, but not forever."

Take that for what it's worth, but a differing opinion to consider.

Now, what does all this mean for BBM? First off, we have to decide how much we want the game to mirror reality, and how much we want it to deviate from reality to provide a more satisfying gaming experience (knowing that these two goals aren't always the same).

A major issue here is that the primary crux of the game, the financial aspect, is modeled on current conditions. As such, it's somewhat difficult to match historical trends unless the game system is flexible enough to handle multiple possible financial systems and change them over time to match reality, i.e. not introducing the amateur draft until the mid-1960's and free agency in the mid-1970's.

Secondly, if Bill James is correct and competitive balance issues will eventually be addressed within the game, this will undoubtably be some kind of financial solution such as increased revenue sharing which will be a modification from how the game is currently set-up. Should BBM try and anticipate these possible changes and incorporate them into how the game progresses through the future? Should some kind of revenue sharing system be included in the game that kicks in when payroll disparity passes a certain ratio? Should any city that gets to a certain size be granted an expansion team or have another team move there (as ought to happen with the New York/New Jersey area)?

For my part, while I want the game to feature challenging scenarios, I also want the game to feel immersive. If the Yankees are always making the playoffs and never have any down periods, and if it's not just the Yankees but the Mets and the Dodgers also then I'm going to lose that sense of immersion. I don't want the Yankees to always win and the Devil Rays to always suck - I want the possibility of some variation in expected outcomes, for the Yankees to suffer some 8-10 season periods of mediocrity, for the Devil Rays to have some brief shining moments where smart management leads to on-field success, a new stadium and increased revenues that allow them to compete for a wild card for a decade.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:01 PM   #415
jbmagic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Olsen
Ah, OK. I'm at work at the moment and don't have much in the way of games here.

It does remove the human element though. I wonder if multiple season simming affects trades between AI teams and the human team(s).


when you do multiple season simming, it gives you a message saying all teams will be cpu controlled.

so no trades between AI teams and human team for multiple seasons sim



but i would love an option if you sim a week, month that the sim will stop if there a trade offer by the cpu.
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Old 03-08-2005, 06:48 PM   #416
Ben E Lou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmagic
so no trades between AI teams and human team for multiple seasons sim
That simply isn't true.

From my latest multi-season sim (I started the career as the Braves)....

Quote:
JULY 31, 2025
Royals receive Brian Insinga (1B), Robin Hilton (SP), Seth Winchester (SS) and Gordie Aybar (C)
Braves receive Ethan Williams (LF), Rodney Weisner (RF) and Quentin Tiers (3B)

Quote:
JULY 31, 2025
Red Sox receive Paul Tyler (SP)
Braves receive Brendan Diemer (LF)

Quote:
JULY 22, 2025
Braves receive Masato Takesaki (SS)
Mets receive Fredrik Ward (RF), Tyler Harrington (3B) and Frank Stai (RP)

Quote:
MAY 28, 2006
Rockies receive Mike Hampton (SP), Matthew Holtz (RP) and Garrett Bernabei (2B)
Braves receive Preston Wilson (CF) and Mandy Romero (C)

There are two or three trades every season involving the Braves. The more I've looked at it this evening, the more I'm convinced that the AI takes over all aspects of all teams in a multi-season sim, just as the game claims:

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Old 03-08-2005, 07:43 PM   #417
Ben E Lou
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An example of what the Simulator does...

Code:
10 SEASONS SIMULATED EAST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+ Baltimore 76.00 86.00 0 0 1 0 1 2 2 4 2 Boston 96.60 65.40 0 2 5 6 3 3 1 0 0 New York 92.20 69.80 3 3 1 4 4 5 1 0 0 Tampa Bay 70.10 91.90 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 7 Toronto 79.00 83.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 4 1 CENTRAL Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+ Chicago 82.60 79.80 0 0 0 4 0 2 3 0 1 Cleveland 82.70 79.70 0 0 0 2 0 4 3 1 0 Detroit 78.10 83.90 0 0 0 0 0 3 3 4 0 Kansas City 63.60 98.40 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 9 Minnesota 83.20 79.20 0 1 0 4 0 1 1 4 0 WEST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+ Anaheim 86.30 75.80 0 1 2 6 0 1 2 1 0 Oakland 80.60 81.40 0 0 0 2 0 0 4 4 0 Seattle 79.50 82.70 0 0 0 1 0 3 3 3 0 Texas 84.20 77.90 0 0 1 1 2 6 1 2 0 EAST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+ Atlanta 83.10 78.90 0 0 1 0 4 4 2 2 2 Florida 77.70 84.30 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 4 3 New York 84.70 77.30 1 1 0 3 0 0 5 1 1 Philadelphia 92.90 69.10 1 0 2 6 1 3 1 0 0 Washington 80.60 82.40 0 1 0 1 1 2 0 3 4 CENTRAL Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+ Chicago 84.40 77.60 0 0 0 1 0 5 3 1 0 Cincinnati 76.80 86.20 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 4 5 Houston 83.70 78.30 0 0 0 1 0 3 5 0 1 Milwaukee 71.50 90.50 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 9 Pittsburgh 76.20 85.80 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 4 5 St. Louis 92.30 69.70 1 1 4 8 0 0 1 1 0 WEST Won Lost WC LC 1R 1st Wild 2nd 3rd 4th 5+ Arizona 85.30 76.70 1 0 0 1 1 6 3 0 0 Colorado 63.60 98.40 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 8 Los Angeles 91.50 70.50 3 0 3 8 2 2 0 0 0 San Diego 73.20 88.80 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 6 2 San Francisco 79.60 82.40 0 0 0 1 1 1 6 2 0 TEAM FINANCES Attendance Revenue Profit Anaheim Angels 39376 114277545 17144787 Arizona Diamondbacks 38596 80362454 13773691 Atlanta Braves 38080 85757330 16339832 Baltimore Orioles 29463 93656474 11212469 Boston Red Sox 33871 119443441 -6818660 Chicago Cubs 36775 100286321 11314849 Chicago White Sox 25105 74035912 1543154 Cincinnati Reds 22152 48347715 -2745215 Cleveland Indians 27519 61716742 16381841 Colorado Rockies 23887 66950193 15284143 Detroit Tigers 29677 72026363 1276681 Florida Marlins 18766 50725215 -14639755 Houston Astros 40198 80489348 1877527 Kansas City Royals 20828 46165887 11048175 Los Angeles Dodgers 39838 115194611 7354556 Milwaukee Brewers 12505 31229438 -339415 Minnesota Twins 25254 62579933 7962878 New York Mets 29278 116426560 14888259 New York Yankees 55561 197733325 62310454 Oakland Athletics 17468 68643133 11213632 Philadelphia Phillies 42761 105764191 11945039 Pittsburgh Pirates 27069 48750983 7044356 San Diego Padres 28740 58313801 146431 San Francisco Giants 32778 93061207 -4114786 Seattle Mariners 37885 89366900 10879280 St. Louis Cardinals 41748 86984665 -2790272 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 15040 39991159 4714629 Texas Rangers 27389 75218070 14913755 Toronto Blue Jays 31736 59950938 8764230 Washington Nationals 25884 84099550 17497038 2005 AL MVP Manny Ramirez 3 Travis Hafner 1 Gary Sheffield 1 Alex Rodriguez 1 Edgar Renteria 1 Eric Munson 1 Vladimir Guerrero 1 Alfonso Soriano 1 2005 NL MVP Albert Pujols 5 Barry Bonds 2 Jim Edmonds 1 J.D. Drew 1 Troy Glaus 1 2005 AL CY YOUNG Curt Schilling 2 Johan Santana 2 Randy Johnson 1 John Lackey 1 Octavio Dotel 1 Rich Harden 1 Bronson Arroyo 1 Jarrod Washburn 1 2005 NL CY YOUNG Ben Sheets 2 Jason Schmidt 2 Mark Mulder 2 Roy Oswalt 1 Mark Prior 1 Kerry Wood 1 Andy Pettitte 1 2005 AL ROOKIE OF THE YEAR Kelly Dransfeldt 4 Jason Bartlett 2 Wilson Valdez 1 Jesse Hoover 1 Chad Orvella 1 Gabe Gross 1 2005 NL ROOKIE OF THE YEAR Clint Barmes 9 Cole Hamels 1
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:01 PM   #418
Ben E Lou
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I just found this page:

http://www.sportsmogul.com/baseball2k6/index.htm

It would indicate, based on this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by the page referenced above
NEW Player Personalities and Morale! Manage the individual personalities of your team to build the right team chemistry.
  • Do you demote a struggling player even though he's a fan favorite?
  • Do you sign your star pitcher to a big extension just to keep him happy in the stretch run?
  • ...that player happiness impacts performance. I'll check this more carefully tomorrow.
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:19 PM   #419
jbmagic
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i did a 100 year sim from 2005 to 2106. Everything at default

World Series Wins

American League

NY Yankees won 62 times
Anahiem Angels won 6 times
Toronto Blue Jays won 2 times
Boston Red Sox won 1 time

National League

Los Angeles Dodgers won 16 times
New York Mets won 7 times
Atlanta Braves won 3 times
Houston Astros won 1 time
Washington Nationals won 1 time
San Fransico Giants won 1 time
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Old 03-08-2005, 08:24 PM   #420
Ksyrup
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Hey, but at least the Red Sox won once!

Seriously, that's a bit of a problem...
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Old 03-08-2005, 10:49 PM   #421
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62 times! Holy smokes!! Dat's some rings.



Todd
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:11 PM   #422
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Sounds about right if things keep moving in their current direction.
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:11 PM   #423
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Meet your 2011 Yankees!!



Talk about a challenge playing in this division or AL for that matter.
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:21 PM   #424
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Do players sometimes play well into their 40s?
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Old 03-09-2005, 12:30 AM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksyrup
But at some point in real life, the great teams of today will, in fact, fall back to the pack, don't you think? Maybe what I don't like is not the fact that the game mirrors reality, but that it doesn't reflect what will eventually happen in the future. At some point, one or more of the big market teams is going to stumble. What you're telling me is that they never stumble in the game. I'm not sure that is realistic.
I just simmed 20 seasons from 2005 but I equalized the cities before I started. The results are a lot closer to what Ksyrup is talking about.

There is more of an ebb and flow to teams succeeding and failing. For instance, the Yankees started off strong but fell away because they went into the red. They then bounced back and got a roll on.

The most successful team, based on average season record, was Boston who ran off 9 consecutive seasons of 100+ wins.

Least successful was Tampa Bay who started off OK but then had 12 consective seasons with fewer than 70 wins ( or 15 straight <71 ).

I don't think this is the most elegant solution but it comes a little closer to modelling how a successful franchise could stumble. It usually means that a team has overspent and has gone into the red. They usually need a couple of seasons of fiscal responsibility to correct this.

I started with the default rosters for 2005 - I think initial success plays a part in future revenue streams when the cities are equalized. I have never been a fan of equalizing ( especially when I ran a Mogul online league ) but I can see it playing a part if someone wants to give "the little guy a chance".
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Old 03-09-2005, 01:35 AM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggs
Sounds about right if things keep moving in their current direction.

I hate the Yankees as much as anyone, but this is hyperbole. The Yankees have been resurgant since 1995. Since then, they've won 4 World Series - that's 4 in the last 10 years. They haven't won it since 2000. The success of the late-'90's Yankees was as much to do with wise management of their resources as it was spending a ton of money. In fact, it's really only been in the last 4-5 years that the Yankees spending has gotten ridiculous, and it's served to prolong the playoff appearences of an aging team, but nothing more.

George is going to flip his lid sooner rather than later and do something dumb like fire Cashman and/or drive Torre away. There's no guarantee that he'll hire better people to replace them. George spent a lot of money willy-nilly in the '80's too but it didn't do him much good. At some point the same thing is going to happen again to the Yanks, and they'll have a down cycle.

The idea that the Yankees will dominate MLB for the next 100 years to the tune of winning 60% of the World Series titles is exaggeration.
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Old 03-09-2005, 01:51 AM   #427
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If someone has a chance and time can you please sim 100 years starting 2005 to 2106 and Use Equalize Cities

and list who won how many world series and compare it to my default setting above. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/f...&postcount=419

Let's see if NY Yankees win 62 World series in 100 years again with Equalize cites Enabled

easiest way in the game is goto news, Finance, and change one header to World Series won.

thanks. i be at work tommorrow, so wont have the beta with me.

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Old 03-09-2005, 05:50 AM   #428
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Meet your 2011 Yankees!!



Talk about a challenge playing in this division or AL for that matter.

Jeter and Renteria in the minors?! Todd Helton in "A" Ball?!

Sigh.
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Old 03-09-2005, 06:04 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by CraigSca
Jeter and Renteria in the minors?! Todd Helton in "A" Ball?!

Sigh.
That's a side effect of too much money to spend. If you had a $220M payroll budget, have "only" $150-$175M invested in your major leaguers, and Helton, for example, is over the hill (which he clearly is, look at his salary request), then why not acquire another multimillion dollar first baseman, and send Helton down to the minors until his contract runs out?

Of course, the hope would be that Helton would just retire rather than play in A ball. As I said, retirements of guys like Helton has been mentioned to Clay. But really, I don't see it as a big deal--unless Helton is blocking a youngster from playing down there. It's not like him being in single-A actually has an impact on anything important. Plus, an apparent bug has been uncovered where undrafted rookies are not going into the FA pool--leaving room on rosters for guys like Helton. I'm optimistic that once that bug gets fixed, leagues will get significantly younger.
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Old 03-09-2005, 06:12 AM   #430
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That's a side effect of too much money to spend. If you had a $220M payroll budget, have "only" $150-$175M invested in your major leaguers, and Helton, for example, is over the hill (which he clearly is, look at his salary request), then why not acquire another multimillion dollar first baseman, and send Helton down to the minors until his contract runs out?

Of course, the hope would be that Helton would just retire rather than play in A ball. As I said, retirements of guys like Helton has been mentioned to Clay. But really, I don't see it as a big deal--unless Helton is blocking a youngster from playing down there. It's not like him being in single-A actually has an impact on anything important. Plus, an apparent bug has been uncovered where undrafted rookies are not going into the FA pool--leaving room on rosters for guys like Helton. I'm optimistic that once that bug gets fixed, leagues will get significantly younger.

I understand your reasoning, but I have yet to see that in ML baseball. Maybe it's coming eventually...

However, I'd really like to see logic built-in for the team to not only keep high-priced players on the major league roster, but also in the day-to-day lineup (unless the guy is batting .100). We know we've seen that hundreds of times in the past - the expensive players get precedence in roster moves as well as setting the lineup.
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Old 03-09-2005, 06:20 AM   #431
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I understand your reasoning, but I have yet to see that in ML baseball. Maybe it's coming eventually...

However, I'd really like to see logic built-in for the team to not only keep high-priced players on the major league roster, but also in the day-to-day lineup (unless the guy is batting .100). We know we've seen that hundreds of times in the past - the expensive players get precedence in roster moves as well as setting the lineup.
I agree with your argument from a realism standpoint, but this is a point where I'd sacrifice realism for challenge, because it's not like I'll be looking carefully at AI rosters, anyway. Other than during beta, the only time I *ever* look at AI rosters is if I'm playing against them in a postseason series. At that point I only care about who they have in the starting lineup--and I'd prefer they do whatever it takes--including signing a $10M guy to replace a fading $10M guy--to put the best 9 on the field every day.

It's the same discussion we had about FOF's AI rosters and the amount of turnover on them. AI teams usually only keep 15-20 players from one year to the next, but it appears that it actually makes the game a little harder--because they keep their stars. I'd rather keep the challenge and sacrifice the realism in this case.
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Old 03-09-2005, 06:50 AM   #432
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Yeah, I think SD is right. Jeter and Renteria are in AAA only because they had the money to sign BJ Upton. Otherwise, they'd be "forced" to play one (or both) of them in the majors. Still, it makes no sense - in real life, they'd trade one or both of them in a deal where they swallow the contracts. It's awfully hard to replicate on the computer what Derek Jeter represents to the franchise, but of course, they wouldn't screw with him at all in real life.

I can't run a test league until tonight, so undoubtedly someone will beat me to it, but if it takes equalizing the cities to get some sort of realism, then I'll deal with it. I'd still like some recognition of small/large markets, but I don't want anything near this drastic of an effect.

Oh, and was anyone else struck by the fact that in 2011, Mark Prior and Josh Beckett will only be 30, and Albert Pujols only 31? Wow.

Finally....looking at 21c's equalized cities test run - what I wouldn't give to see the Yankees lose 121 games in 2007!
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Old 03-09-2005, 06:56 AM   #433
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Still, it makes no sense - in real life, they'd trade one or both of them in a deal where they swallow the contracts.
Yup. I fthe AI could trade them and include cash in the deal, that would be ideal.

Quote:
I can't run a test league until tonight, so undoubtedly someone will beat me to it, but if it takes equalizing the cities to get some sort of realism, then I'll deal with it. I'd still like some recognition of small/large markets, but I don't want anything near this drastic of an effect.
I'll do the equalize cities test when I get to my office (in about 30 minutes or so).
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Old 03-09-2005, 07:03 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by jbmagic
If someone has a chance and time can you please sim 100 years starting 2005 to 2106 and Use Equalize Cities

and list who won how many world series and compare it to my default setting above.
Didn't run 100 but ran about 50 seasons. These were the number of times that teams made the playoffs, won LCS and won WS in those 50 seasons. You get a pretty good spread of princes and paupers.

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Old 03-09-2005, 07:04 AM   #435
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No matter how you play this game, it looks like the difficulty level settings are going to be:

Easy
Medium
Hard
Difficult
Mogul
Devil Rays
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Old 03-09-2005, 09:42 AM   #436
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I like 21c's universe that has the White Sox winning 5 World Series in the next 50 years. (Sigh) If only...
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Old 03-09-2005, 09:44 AM   #437
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Dola--but everyone who is objecting to the Yankees and other big-market teams dominating the game so thoroughly is correct. That's just ridiculous. I mean, look at baseball history...since 1920 or so, the Yankees have been the dominant team. They've won 26 World Series since 1920, so that's 84 years, 26 titles. Over a 100 years, that would be roughly 31 titles. 62 is just freakin' nuts.
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Old 03-09-2005, 09:47 AM   #438
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OK. Here we go. Started in 2005, equalized cities, ran 100 seasons.


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Old 03-09-2005, 10:04 AM   #439
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This game is proof-positive that the Chicago teams should be better than they are.
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:07 AM   #440
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Are those the real payrolls? When you equalize cities, does that tend to deflate contracts?

Also, once you equalize, do the cities slowly gain back their big market, small market characteristics, or do the cities remain "equalized?"
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:29 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by Ksyrup
Are those the real payrolls? When you equalize cities, does that tend to deflate contracts?

Also, once you equalize, do the cities slowly gain back their big market, small market characteristics, or do the cities remain "equalized?"
1 & 2. I noticed that too, ran the 2105 season, and ended up bug-reporting to Clay. Those budgets don't accurately reflect what a team can spend and make a profit yet. Payrolls across the board are a little higher than the payroll budgets, and some are a lot higher. The Chisox, for example, with a $29.1M budget, actually spent $81.0M on payroll, and only lost $9.2M, Now, they won 107 games this year and got to host three home playoff games, so people came to see 'em play. That being said, salaries *are* a littler lower, although the top-tier players still command nearly $20M per year. However, a non-equalized 2100 salary look has 19 players making more than $13M, while in this league only 7 players are making that much.

3. No. Even in 2105, all cities have the following:

Population: 1,000,000
Region Population: 3,000,000
Per Capita Income: $22,500
Stadium Capacity: 50,000

What DOES change over time is fan loyalty--which is based on ticket prices, TV contracts, and how well you do on the field. In the current league, it ranges from A+ (St. Louis) to D- (Toronto).

Looking over this, I have realized that there's something else that you can do (which I did not) to further "equalize" your start: Under Tools-->Advanced Tools, you can choose to "reset team grades"--which sets every team's starting fan loyalty at B-. Without doing this, all teams begin 2005 with differing fan loyalty ratings--even with cities equalized.
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:35 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by SkyDog
Looking over this, I have realized that there's something else that you can do (which I did not) to further "equalize" your start: Under Tools-->Advanced Tools, you can choose to "reset team grades"--which sets every team's starting fan loyalty at B-. Without doing this, all teams begin 2005 with differing fan loyalty ratings--even with cities equalized.

Thanks.

I think I like the idea of leaving differing fan loyalties, at least if I'm going to pick up with the "real" MLB in 2005. I want there to be some difference between NY and KC, just not to the tune of 62 championships in 100 years.
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:43 AM   #443
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Can you edit city data?

If so, someone who really wanted to could go through and balance it somewhere between the equalized status and the default status and probably get results that some folks are looking for.
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:51 AM   #444
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Can you edit city data?

If so, someone who really wanted to could go through and balance it somewhere between the equalized status and the default status and probably get results that some folks are looking for.
Good thought. Yes, you can edit cities either within the game, or do it in a CSV file so that every new gamestart has the cities different.
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:53 AM   #445
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City editor help (interesting tidbit that I did not know highlighted....)


CITY EDITOR

Baseball Mogul comes with over 450 preset major cities included for the United States and Canada. However you may want to change information, or add your own cities.
This page describes using the City Editor to change city data for your current game. If you wish to edit data for all new games, you will need to edit the Baseball Mogul City Data File.

You must be in Commissioner Mode to used the City Editor.

Edit an Existing City

Enter your desired information in each of the edit boxes. When you've completed your changes, hit 'Done' and this will save the city to the database.
City Population Number of people living with the official city limits. This currently has no effect on the financial performance of the city's team.
Region Population Number of people living within the region's SMSA (Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area). This is the number used to determine each team's fan base.
New Population / Year Number of new residents added to the Region Population each off-season.
Per Capita Income Measured in 1997 US dollars, and fluctuates somewhat from year to year to represent changing economic factors. This value does not rise from year to year (in other words, Baseball Mogul does not have inflation built into the financial engine).

Altitude Measured in feet. Any stadium built in this city will also have this altitude (with the corresponding effect on ball flight).
Longitude Degrees East.
Latitude Degrees North. Teams that are located geographically close to other teams will compete for the same fans in proportion to their proximity.
Time Zone 0 = Pacific / 1 = Mountain / 2 = Central / 3 = Eastern
Fan Base A rating reflecting the ardor of this team's baseball fans. A small city (such as St. Louis, Denver of Kansas City) may be able to support a baseball team with the help of devoted fans. Note that, unlike Fan Loyalty, the 'Fan Base' setting is permanent for every city and is not affected by a team's performance.


Adding a New City

Hit 'Add City'. This will cause the name in the upper left hand display box to read 'New City'. Hit Edit City Name to add your city's name. Then, edit the default information and hit 'Done' to save your city

Longitude and Latitude can be approximated by using the longitude and lattitude of a nearby city. If the city created is too close to another city with a team in it, there will be competition for fans.





CITY DATA Baseball Mogul comes with over 450 cities included for the United States and Canada. However you may want to change information, or add your own cities.

Editing City Data

Every time you start a new game, Baseball Mogul loads the City Data contained in [Baseball Mogul Folder]\Input\NewGameCities.csv.

To change city data for all new games, edit this file (using a text editor, or Microsoft Excel):
City City Name
State State/Province Abbreviation (or Country Name, for cities outside the U.S. and Canada)
Population Number of people living with the official city limits. This currently has no effect on the financial performance of the city's team.
Region Number of people living within the region's SMSA (Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area). This is the number used to determine each team's fan base.
Growth Number of new residents added to the Region Population each off-season.
Income Per capita income of the City Region, measured in US dollars. This value fluctuates somewhat from year to year during the simulation to represent changing economic factors. This value does not rise from year to year (in other words, Baseball Mogul does not have inflation built into the financial engine).

Altitude Measured in feet. Any stadium built in this city will also have this altitude (with the corresponding effect on ball flight).
Latitude Degrees North. Recorded as 'Latitude times 100,000'. For example, Latitude of 32.43902 degrees North is expressed as '3243902'. Note that South Latitude values are negative.

(Teams that are located geographically close to other teams will compete for the same fans in proportion to their proximity).

Longitude Degrees East. Negative values indicate West Longitude values. Like Latitude values, Longitude values are expressed as large whole numbers.

For example, 99.75199 degrees West is expresses as '-9975199'.

Time Zone 0 = Greenwich Mean Time / -5 = Eastern Time / -8 = Pacific Time
Commute Average commute time (in minutes). This is not currently used by Baseball Mogul.


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Old 03-09-2005, 11:02 AM   #446
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You are told a team's "fan base" rating when you cycle through it to potentially pick it at the beginning of the game. I had always just assumed that this was a text version of the "Fan Loyalty" rating. Obviously, this isn't the case. Looking around, the following teams are +/- 10% or more...

FANATIC (+20%)
Boston

DEVOTED (+15%)
St. Louis

LOYAL (+10%)
New York Yankees

INDIFFERENT (-10%)
Detroit
Florida
New York Mets
Tampa Bay
Texas
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:44 AM   #447
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Skydog

Thanks for the Equalize Cities test..

Seems like if you have that enabled, it gives more teams a chance to win the world series with any team. with it on , it feels like you have a chance to build a team and win a world series.

IF you dont use Equalize cities, than NY Yankees will dominate too much 63 championship in 100 years. And only very few teams has a chance to win a world series. i think that needs to be tweak. No team in any sport will have a run winnning 60% championship wins in 100 years

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Old 03-09-2005, 11:48 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by SkyDog
It turns out lefty vs. righty DOES matter in this game, but that the resultant splits are irrelevant, and therefore not reported.

I confess, I might have missed soem important detail along the way in this thread.

Do I have this correct?

- BM06 players will perform differently based on the handedness of their opposing pitcher/hitter

- For real players imported into the game from a database, this "split" will be a constant

- For fictional players generated in the game, this "split" will be a variable

- Despite this, the game does not allow a team to set different lineups based on the handedness of the pitcher

- Nor does the game allow any sort of pitcher specializtion (a slot especially to face batters of certain handedness)



To those who are fully into all this -- Is that a fair summary of how handedness is treated in the current version of this game?
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:54 AM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikSand
I confess, I might have missed soem important detail along the way in this thread.

Do I have this correct?

- BM06 players will perform differently based on the handedness of their opposing pitcher/hitter
Yes.


Quote:
- For real players imported into the game from a database, this "split" will be a constant
Yes, due to the fact that the Lahman database does not provide l/r split stats.

Quote:
- For fictional players generated in the game, this "split" will be a variable
At this point, no, both due to some research that may indicate it may not matter, and (in my opinion) a slight developer bias toward historical vs. future/fictional.

Quote:
- Despite this, the game does not allow a team to set different lineups based on the handedness of the pitcher
Correct.

Quote:
- Nor does the game allow any sort of pitcher specializtion (a slot especially to face batters of certain handedness)
Correct. Game logs are not being generated in the beta, so at this point we can't tell whether or not the AI handles this well.
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Old 03-09-2005, 12:28 PM   #450
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I agree with your argument from a realism standpoint, but this is a point where I'd sacrifice realism for challenge, because it's not like I'll be looking carefully at AI rosters, anyway. Other than during beta, the only time I *ever* look at AI rosters is if I'm playing against them in a postseason series. At that point I only care about who they have in the starting lineup--and I'd prefer they do whatever it takes--including signing a $10M guy to replace a fading $10M guy--to put the best 9 on the field every day.

It's the same discussion we had about FOF's AI rosters and the amount of turnover on them. AI teams usually only keep 15-20 players from one year to the next, but it appears that it actually makes the game a little harder--because they keep their stars. I'd rather keep the challenge and sacrifice the realism in this case.

I hate to beat the drum on this one - but are the Yankees, with the astronomical payroll, the only teams doing this? Do other teams have a large contract guy playing in the minors? If that's the case (and therefore there's no logic to prevent this) then yes, there will be additional challenge when playing a team that can afford it, and less of a challenge when it comes to a team like the Royals (who can't afford to stick a $10 million contract in the minors).

Again, there should be some roster/lineup logic that takes into account salary...just a slight modifier - it's really no big deal.
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