The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Lathum]

Ted Cruz has become quite the boot licker. How anyone can be so supportive of Trump after the way Trump treated him is beyond me. My guess is Cruz is hoping Trump leaves office or bails on 2020 and by pandering to his base he gets the nomination.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

For those who think they are racist, the argument would be that they single out the lives of one race over all others. Thus the counter mantra being "All Lives Matter". It's a dumb argument that looks ridiculously silly when you use the same logic on any other type of cause that focuses on a specific issue.

I certainly don't think BLM is racist.

ADL definition is "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics".

I have not see anything that says BLM believes they are superior to others. They are definitely more focused on blacks but doesn't fit the definition IMO.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Ted Cruz has become quite the boot licker. How anyone can be so supportive of Trump after the way Trump treated him is beyond me. My guess is Cruz is hoping Trump leaves office or bails on 2020 and by pandering to his base he gets the nomination.

Just shows you the morals some of these guys have. Power before principals. If I ever meet him or Devin Nunes in person, I'm likely to kick them both in the throat.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Is he a racist? Take a look at the ADL definition of racism and let me know what you think.

How about we have a discussion. List the top 4 or 5 things you think he's done that make him a racist. What part of the ADL's definition do they fall under? How do they compare to comments from actual racists (KKK, BLM, etc,)

I think he falls just short of racist, but definitely has said some dumb things. Here's hoping he can get some help working on his communication skills. Maybe Obama could take the lead on that.

I actually would consider him racist based on the ADL definition. I don't track him so only read the wiki Steve King - Wikipedia

He's a nationalist (denies white nationalist) at the very least. He's anti-immigration. He's made insensitive remarks. He's supportive of racial profiling. Doesn't like affirmative action. Smeared Soros (plenty of people do but not primarily because he is Jewish). None of those IMO makes him a racist.

However, several quotes stick out that ties to the "superior" based on "biological characteristics".

The contributions that were made by Western civilization itself, and by Americans, by Americans of all races, stand far above the rest of the world. The Western civilization and the American civilization are a superior culture.

"We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies," referring to his views on ending birthright citizenship and promoting "an America that's just so homogenous that we look a lot [sic] the same."[9]

If I went deeper into other sources, I'll assume there are other quotes similar to above 2. So there's a preponderance of evidence that says he fits ADL definition of racist.

Just my 2c.

[Lathum]

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Is he a racist? Take a look at the ADL definition of racism and let me know what you think.

How about we have a discussion. List the top 4 or 5 things you think he's done that make him a racist. What part of the ADL's definition do they fall under? How do they compare to comments from actual racists (KKK, BLM, etc,)

I think he falls just short of racist, but definitely has said some dumb things. Here's hoping he can get some help working on his communication skills. Maybe Obama could take the lead on that.

OMG

[Noop]

So for the election this year am I the only thinking Trump wins again?

Wouldn't it be ironic that Florida again has to do a recount again.

Crazy times.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You see, what you're doing is seeing an invisible "only" in front of "Black Lives Matter." The "only" is not there, and is not part of the movement. What is a part of the movement is the silent "too". It is not saying that their lives are more important at all. It is saying there lives should be equally important.

The analogy I heard was that if your family sits down to dinner, and your dad serves everyone's food, and he leaves your plate empty.

And you say, "Hey, I need some food." And he looks at you condescendingly and says, "Actually, we all need food."

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You see, what you're doing is seeing an invisible "only" in front of "Black Lives Matter." The "only" is not there, and is not part of the movement. What is a part of the movement is the silent "too". It is not saying that their lives are more important at all. It is saying there lives should be equally important.

That's not what I'm doing.

[JPhillips]

What's that old saying? Something like, when you're arguing over which chemical irritant you used to disperse the crowd so the President could have a photo op, you're losing.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

For those who think they are racist, the argument would be that they single out the lives of one race over all others. Thus the counter mantra being "All Lives Matter". It's a dumb argument that looks ridiculously silly when you use the same logic on any other type of cause that focuses on a specific issue.

I don't think the BLM moniker is racist. Inflammatory, divisive, prejudiced, etc., but certainly not racist. Ask me if the group itself is racist and my answer is depends on who you are talking about. A lot of the rhetoric is. Regular proclamations like 'White people be like ... ' and 'Watch Whiteness Work' declare the belief that problems stem not from specific actions or policies but from the very nature of being white. They're far more racist than, say, Trump's infamous screed about Mexican immigrants during the '16 campaign. But like any group, BLM isn't homogenous. Some just want justice. Many others carry it a lot further. So there's a lot of racism in BLM, and the acronym is by definition not a unifying one, but it's not inherently a racist organization.

[albionmoonlight]

https://twitter.com/gopchairwoman/st...303618048?s=21

And here I thought that liberals were the ones into participation trophies.

[albionmoonlight]

In hindsight, gassing a bunch of peacefully protesting Americans so that you could take audition photos for the Al Pacino role in Devils Advocate 2 might not have been the best PR move.

[JPhillips]

Trump is doing an interview on Fox radio and he claims that he went to the bunker only, "for an inspection."

lol

[Edward64]

Ah, to be a fly in the Oval Office listening to Trump rant. Looking forward to his reaction.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...sts/index.html

Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said Wednesday that he does not support using active duty troops to quell the large-scale protests across the United States triggered by the death of George Floyd and those forces should only be used in a law enforcement role as a last resort, comments that came after President Donald Trump recently threatened to deploy the military to enforce order.

Esper's attempt to distance himself from Trump's view on using the military to restore order went over poorly at the White House, where he was already viewed to be on shaky ground, multiple people familiar with the matter said.
"The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act," Esper said during a briefing at the Pentagon.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump is doing an interview on Fox radio and he claims that he went to the bunker only, "for an inspection."

lol

It is sad how easy it is to get under his skin. Anything that exposes what a weak man he is just sends him loopy.

[Butter]

Were they also inspecting all the light switches to make sure "off" worked?

[booradley]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

In hindsight, gassing a bunch of peacefully protesting Americans so that you could take audition photos for the Al Pacino role in Devils Advocate 2 might not have been the best PR move.

Or in foresight. The whole thing smacks of "Make way for the king!" Sheer arrogance at a time when Don needs to be the exact opposite of that.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Ah, to be a fly in the Oval Office listening to Trump rant. Looking forward to his reaction.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...sts/index.html

So, who's the next temporary SecDEF when Trump's hissy fit for disagreeing gets Esper fired?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by bronconick

So, who's the next temporary SecDEF when Trump's hissy fit for disagreeing gets Esper fired?

Dunno. I'm just glad someone has the backbone to stand up to him on this.

In the back of my mind, I wonder if Esper order it, would the Joint Chiefs comply. It won't be good for the country but almost want to see what happens.

[JPhillips]

According to RCP, after today's poll Trump has a 2.2% average lead...

in Texas.

I don't expect Biden to even compete in TX, but that's a brutal number for Trump.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

According to RCP, after today's poll Trump has a 2.2% average lead...

in Texas.

I don't expect Biden to even compete in TX, but that's a brutal number for Trump.

I expect some Austin and San Antonio polling locations to close because of this.

[bhlloy]

Can we please remember in all the glee to throw poll numbers out this time around that social desirability is a thing, especially when the country is on fire and admitting you are going to vote for Trump is basically seen as telling a stranger you are a bad person, especially right now?

[Atocep]

Shy Trump voters never has been a thing. I don't know why it would start now.

[bhlloy]

His base maybe, but his base isn’t what’s important. I don’t know how you don’t look at the polls last time around and think there weren’t a number of factors at play.

But hey, I can’t wait for the next 5 months of smug poll articles and social media posts and then waking up one morning and wondering what the fuck just happened. Again.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

His base maybe, but his base isn’t what’s important. I don’t know how you don’t look at the polls last time around and think there weren’t a number of factors at play.

But hey, I can’t wait for the next 5 months of smug poll articles and social media posts and then waking up one morning and wondering what the fuck just happened. Again.

The primary factors in play in 2016 were a motivated GOP base that rallied behind Trump over the last month of the campaign and an unpopular Dem candidate that independents weren't willing to get behind in large enough numbers.

The first item is still going to be in play in November, but Trump is killing his chances with independents and moderates. He could very well still win, but it's likely going to be another electoral college win with a significant popular loss and his chances of losing by McCain levels are probably just as likely right now.

[bhlloy]

We think and hope he’s killing his chances with independents and moderates, but he is the same person he was last time around. And in my opinion those poll numbers from independents and moderates are not reliable, especially this far out and with all the outrage and shit burning down right now. People have an uncanny way of voting with their ultimate interest in the booth.

Hope you are right; but will also believe it when I see it and he’s leaving the White House.

[Brian Swartz]

Historically, we're at the point where polls start mattering roughly (actually about a month ago IIRC). But more important is the fact that every.single.election since '16 hasn't gone Trump's way. That's pre-pandemic, pre-riots. He could win, and we could also get visited by Martians today. Both are about the same likelihood.

[larrymcg421]

Well if we're talking about Texas, the polls actually underestimated Clinton. The final RCP average had Trump up by 11.7 and Trump ended up only winning by 9.0

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Historically, we're at the point where polls start mattering roughly (actually about a month ago IIRC). But more important is the fact that every.single.election since '16 hasn't gone Trump's way. That's pre-pandemic, pre-riots. He could win, and we could also get visited by Martians today. Both are about the same likelihood.

Agree

The only reason people are still giving Trump and chance is he's the incumbent and they expect him to try to steal the election somehow. If you look at mid-terms, special elections, and current polling for both the Presidency and generic congress (which is a good measure of current party support) the GOP and Trump really have nothing going for them at this point.

As I've mentioned in this thread, there's a reason McConnell and Graham are pressuring judges to retire. It's not because they expect Trump to win.

[Kodos]

I am definitely not counting my chickens yet, but I am hopeful these polls are right. I am hoping for a Godzilla-breathes-fire-down-Trump's-throat type of victory.

[PilotMan]

I'll believe it when I see it and I'll make no assumptions until it's over.

[Kodos]

And we may well be looking at a multiple days of waiting while the paper ballots are counted delay in determining a winner. But I sure hope not.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Atocep

As I've mentioned in this thread, there's a reason McConnell and Graham are pressuring judges to retire. It's not because they expect Trump to win.

It's also why the GOP isn't going to agree to another bill to prop up the economy. They want to get ahead of tanking it and blaming Biden. They don't think that Trump has enough of a chance that it is worth keeping things afloat to increase his chances of reelection.

And Trump is too stupid to realize that. And, even if someone came in with a picture book to explain it to him, he lacks the ability to get the GOP members in Congress to do what he wants.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

All that said, I won't believe he is gone until he is gone.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It's also why the GOP isn't going to agree to another bill to prop up the economy. They want to get ahead of tanking it and blaming Biden. They don't think that Trump has enough of a chance that it is worth keeping things afloat to increase his chances of reelection.

And Trump is too stupid to realize that. And, even if someone came in with a picture book to explain it to him, he lacks the ability to get the GOP members in Congress to do what he wants.

I'm fairly certain if you offered McConnell and Graham control of Senate majority in November and Trump voted out of office they'd take it without hesitation. I think the GOP core understands that the best thing for the health of their party is for Trump to be a 1 term President and Biden is the perfect follow up as a moderate that's committed to not even running for a 2nd term.

The problem is they fear losing Senate and being pulled down with him. They need to walk a fine line between letting Trump sink enough to to lose, but not take the rest of the party with him because, given the choice, they'll take 4 more years of Trump over complete loss of power.

[Ben E Lou]

Mattis said he'd speak when the time was right.

It's right, and did he ever.

"In Union There Is Strength

I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Park. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.


James Mattis"
"

[Atocep]

Holy shit

[ISiddiqui]

Holy crap, what a statement!

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Holy shit

I rarely cuss, but with the wife and kids out of town at the beach, those were my exact words, out loud, in the empty house.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I rarely cuss, but with the wife and kids out of town at the beach, those were my exact words, out loud, in the empty house.

I believe things like this do chip away at his base. I'd be surprised if it noticeably moved the needle, but every little bit helps and this is just one more thing that makes it more difficult to defend his actions. A tipping point for Trump would potentially be if George W were to endorse Biden. At the very least it'd be interesting to see how the current GOP establishment would try to reconcile it.

[whomario]

I like how i read his Wikipedia page (hey, ignorant german here ) and find sth that works well against the backdrop of the video of those cops emptying protesters water bottles out of malice:

In a 2003 PBS interview, Mattis recalled how his Marines followed advice from his chaplain on gaining the support of Iraqi citizens: "On the suggestion of my Catholic chaplain the Marines would take chilled drinking water in bottles and walk out amongst the protesters and hand it out. It is just hard to throw a rock at somebody who has given you a cold drink of water and it's 120 degrees outside."

https://twitter.com/Youngdaggerdrip/...93923317288961

[Lathum]

It's scathing to be sure but will never get to any of his followers, and won't matter if it does. I just went to Fox News website, you know, the ones who claim to be fair and balanced. Not on word of it.

Ironically enough Trump will likely tweet about it which may bring some eyeballs to it, but he is too stupid to comprehend it and lacks the attention span to even read it.

[cuervo72]

The more who speak out against him - especially those who have worked with him - the easier it becomes to peel people off.

[PilotMan]

It's about fucking time.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I believe things like this do chip away at his base. I'd be surprised if it noticeably moved the needle, but every little bit helps and this is just one more thing that makes it more difficult to defend his actions. A tipping point for Trump would potentially be if George W were to endorse Biden. At the very least it'd be interesting to see how the current GOP establishment would try to reconcile it.

It’s not so much his base as the conservatives on the margin. I was third-party all the way in 2016, but a significant number of my close long-time friends were Trump nose-holders who still can’t stand Trump, but may vote for him. Hearing a respected conservative general publish some of the thoughts that they already had will no doubt move the needle a bit more. I doubt any of them will vote for Biden, but I could easily see more conservatives refusing to vote for Trump.

[Edward64]

This won't affect his 38-42% base. It may help with some undecided, independents.

I wonder if the ulterior motive is also to remind the Joint Chiefs of their duty to refuse an illegal order or maybe questionable order.

[JPhillips]

Again, the demographics mean he has to expand his voter base to win. This doesn't help.

[PilotMan]

Should trump be defeated in November, I do believe that he may go down as one of the 3 worst presidents of all time.

[Ben E Lou]

Just got this text from a friend. He’s not a serious studied Christian like those mentioned in my last post, but is a conservative former marine officer who has become increasingly hostile to Trumpism.

There is a tenant of maneuver warfare, the doctrine of our Marine Corps and one which Gen Mattis has mastered, that prioritizes the MASSING of combat power at the decisive time and place where it will have the greatest effect on the enemy. In this way smaller forces can quickly divide and route much larger forces. THAT is what he's doing. Love this