The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Ben E Lou]

Pres Trump announces he's designating all Houses of Worship as places that provide "essential services" and calls on all Governors to allow them to open now. "If they don't do it, I will override the Governors," says the president in brief statement. Takes no questions. pic.twitter.com/5R3ODc4B2W

— Mark Knoller (@markknoller) May 22, 2020

[PilotMan]

What a well thought out, and coherent plan. I don't mind saying that it's the sort of decision that will really bring this nation together, for the benefit of all of us really.

You know though. He wouldn't take any responsibility before Covid. He actively used the federal government to take supplies away from states when he wanted to. He has, at the same time, lead a process that has specific guidelines for opening, and railed against states that were following procedure AND railed against those that were throwing caution to the wind. He threatened governors with his 'absolute authority' and then say, no, you go do it. Just for the sake of equanimity, he really needs to come out and talk down to any churches that open up with little to no regard for public health. You know, just to keep everyone up front about his big plan.

[JPhillips]

It's this kind of thing that convinces me Trump and his team aren't geniuses. The whole weekend was set to be about Biden gaffes, but not anymore.

[spleen1015]

Does he even have the authority to override governors for something like that?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Does he even have the authority to override governors for something like that?

Nah

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Does he even have the authority to override governors for something like that?

No, but...I can see churches using this to defy any state that does not allow them to open. If they arrest or fine them, the feds then can stand with them in court. It is a gesture that will be loved in the religious far-right.

[Ryche]

Meh, let the churches open. Enclosed space, people close together singing. Generally older population. That will go well.

[Qwikshot]

He's gonna wipe out his base, then be mad at them for dying.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Does he even have the authority to override governors for something like that?

No, just playing to evangelicals. They love nothing more than when you play to their persecution complex.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

He's gonna wipe out his base, then be mad at them for dying.

Except... so much of the panic language is based on this being Ebola. Like everybody just dies. It's not. 99%, or a lot more, are fine.

[ISiddiqui]

But a lot of his base are 65+. Church goers in particular are an older group (something we church leaders are trying to figure out how to stop and reverse)

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Except... so much of the panic language is based on this being Ebola. Like everybody just dies. It's not. 99%, or a lot more, are fine.

I would say the mortality rate for Trump supporters would be considerably higher.

They tend to be older, slow to embrace science, and at the risk of generalizing come from areas where people are less healthy.

[Galaril]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...8e1_story.html

[Thomkal]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/u...ary-check.html

Press Secretary shows off the check Trump donated to the Depy of Health and Human Services to help in the fight against the coronavirus. Only problem? The check also displayed the president's private bank account and routing numbers. Oops

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's this kind of thing that convinces me Trump and his team aren't geniuses. The whole weekend was set to be about Biden gaffes, but not anymore.

Joe Biden: hold my beer

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Except... so much of the panic language is based on this being Ebola. Like everybody just dies. It's not. 99%, or a lot more, are fine.

True. I was joking but there is a truth of what I said before that Trump is just going to Trump. If his supporters die, not his fault, if they are fine, he'll state he knew all along that it wasn't worth worrying over.

With the possible suppression of data, we don't really know the extent of the virus. It may be ebbing, it may be a second wave.

I do think that there isn't much faith in the administration handling it.

[JPhillips]

We should open the doors and let anyone from Hong Kong immigrate.

We won't. But we should.

[RainMaker]

History buffs will know who made that saying on the effigy famous. Always interesting see how certain demographics get more leeway than others.

Gun-toting anti-shutdown protesters hung Gov. Andy Beshear in effigy and then marched the short distance to his house, chanting for him to come out of his house. Don’t know if he and his wife and young children were home. https://t.co/is9A0xS6Ph

— Joe Sonka �� (@joesonka) May 24, 2020

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We should open the doors and let anyone from Hong Kong immigrate.

We won't. But we should.

Hong Kong is "lost". Sooner or later the "2 systems" will become "1 system".

I'd certainly want immigration to the US be easier for the well educated. The better answer may be to help Taiwan (and GB) take them in.

Don't know. They are in a bad position.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

History buffs will know who made that saying on the effigy famous. Always interesting see how certain demographics get more leeway than others.

Gun-toting anti-shutdown protesters hung Gov. Andy Beshear in effigy and then marched the short distance to his house, chanting for him to come out of his house. Don’t know if he and his wife and young children were home. https://t.co/is9A0xS6Ph

— Joe Sonka �� (@joesonka) May 24, 2020

So the party of Lincoln, quotes his assassin, another stellar example of life at the bottom of the gene pool.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

History buffs will know who made that saying on the effigy famous. Always interesting see how certain demographics get more leeway than others.

Yes, I can't believe they support Brutus assassinating Julius Caesar. Can't we let Caesar be dead in piece. I mean, why would....oh, wait...John Wilkes Booth. Oh, never mind.

[kingfc22]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/612031/

This article explores the subject that I struggle to wrap my head around.

[I. J. Reilly]

Good article, thanks for linking it. This quote pulled from the last paragraph is what it really boils down to:

“I think that working men, the kind raised as I was, know what kind of “man” Trump is. And still, the gratification they get from seeing Trump enrage the rest of the country is enough to earn their indulgence.”

He’s not a loved figure, he’s just seen as their only champion against a hated enemy. Which begs the questions of why the other side is so hated.
I thought it was just Hillary, during the campaign I saw a lot of Facebook post saying essentially “Can you imagine four years of that woman telling you what to do?” My mistake was assuming “that woman” was the important part, when really it’s the “telling you what to do” that can’t be tolerated. And I get it. I’m a card carrying liberal at this point, but even I can’t listen to one of these woke activists for more than 30 seconds without wanting to jam sharp objects in my ears. If I listened to Fox and actually thought that’s what a Democratic administration would look like I might not vote for it either.

[Lathum]

100K dead and the right still won't hold Trump even somewhat accountable. We are so lost as a nation.

[spleen1015]

I fear the only way things improve with the virus is if Biden wins in November and he's able to do something come January when he takes office.

[NobodyHere]

Well the original death estimates were as high as 2,000,000.

So Trump and his decisive actions alone have saved 1,900,000 lives even while dealing with governors who just want to ruin him.

/sarcasm

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...sident/612031/

This article explores the subject that I struggle to wrap my head around.

Great article, I'm still digesting it. But I feel like my immediate reaction is that the men the author describes are an older generation. I don't think the masculine stereotypes of the 40-70 year olds match that of the "Greatest Generation." The answer probably lies somewhere in there.

[Autumn]

I think this states it well, from that article:

"It should not be a surprise then, that Trump is a hero to a culture in which so many men are already trapped in perpetual adolescence. And especially for men who feel like life might have passed them by, whose fondest memories are rooted somewhere in their own personal Wonder Years from elementary school until high-school graduation, Trump is a walking permission slip to shrug off the responsibilities of manhood."

I think that the generation of men following after the WWII generation may say they respect the ideals of that generation, they don't generally follow it. Many are, just as this says, trapped in a perpetual adolescence rather than the sort of stoic manhood they say they adore. Trump does speak to that.

[Atocep]

I think one of the most interesting things I've witnessed through Trump's time in the political spotlight is how much it highlights the way in which people assimilate into whatever they latch onto.

My wife's stepfather grew up in SoCal as a laid back surfer type. Since moving the Texas 15-20 years ago he's become a conservative and Trump's Presidency has pushed him to be far more conservative than he ever was. He's now a big gun nut and has fully embraced religion while also becoming what is essentially an alt-right facebook troll. He's a great guy and someone any one of us could sit and have a beer with while watching football, but his changes just over the past 3 years have really gotten my wife's attention. It's like he feels compelled to become part of that culture.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think that the generation of men following after the WWII generation may say they respect the ideals of that generation, they don't generally follow it. Many are, just as this says, trapped in a perpetual adolescence rather than the sort of stoic manhood they say they adore. Trump does speak to that.

This is a good point. There are lots of folks (and not necessarily all boomers) that will claim they want to emulate the values of the silent generation....but the great majority of those folks are not-at-all silent.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well the original death estimates were as high as 2,000,000.

So Trump and his decisive actions alone have saved 1,900,000 lives even while dealing with governors who just want to ruin him.

/sarcasm

I kindof want to create a poll and see where everyone will think the death toll will end up, kindof a snapshot of what all predict today. To me, we're not even halfway home and I think the final number will be closer to (above?) 500K than 100K. This will especially be true if we look at mortality rates across the board (i.e. the places that were reporting and will report 3-4x normal rates) and not just the ones that were tested and confirmed COVID-positive before death.

As with so much of this pandemic, I'd be very happy to be wrong.

SI

[stevew]

I feel like response under a Hillary presidency would have been worse. Likelihood she has a republican congress in both houses and austerity measures would have been in full effect in both houses.

[tarcone]

And this is not over yet. The 2nd wave is coming.

Party on Garth

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I kindof want to create a poll and see where everyone will think the death toll will end up, kindof a snapshot of what all predict today. To me, we're not even halfway home and I think the final number will be closer to (above?) 500K than 100K. This will especially be true if we look at mortality rates across the board (i.e. the places that were reporting and will report 3-4x normal rates) and not just the ones that were tested and confirmed COVID-positive before death.

As with so much of this pandemic, I'd be very happy to be wrong.

SI

If you don't, I will

We haven't had a Covid poll in like a week!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

If you don't, I will

We haven't had a Covid poll in like a week!

I'm thinking the buckets would be something like
>200K
200K-300K
300K-400K
400K-500K
500K-1M
1M-2M
>2M

Maybe just squeeze the 200-300, 300-400, and 400-500 into 200-350, 350-500 (i.e. closer to 200k or closer to 500k).

And there'd have to be some ground rules. Like are we talking "official" numbers or what we'll be reading about in history books in 50 years (where we try to incorporate death rates for cities, etc).

Seems like it could be public with no issues.

SI

[Flasch186]

This whole Joe Scarbrough thing... in any other presidency the American Public would be in an uproar but of course, since DT has insinuated before that people may or may not have been involved in murders the society collectively yawns. The issue is that the bar has been lowered or dissolved in acid that we'll never be able to recover any semblance of the "high ground" ever again. I truly believe, 100% that DT and his cult of personality will begin to plant seeds (which he's already done) and put water on them and grow them about a rigged election, one in which the Democracy was subverted, and he will not leave office without the Secret service or Military escorting him out of the WH. He'll have taken some Republicans all the way to the precipice of actually helping a dictatorship attempt to take hold and actually have to think whether or not going against DT this time is the hill to die on when it has been excavated at every side until it's just a small node to put one leg of a stool on.

[RainMaker]

Feel bad for the woman's family. Some pretty shitty old wounds being opened by a really unwell person.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

This is a good point. There are lots of folks (and not necessarily all boomers) that will claim they want to emulate the values of the silent generation....but the great majority of those folks are not-at-all silent.

Most of them would also crap their pants if they had to storm the beach at Normandy. They want to play the part, and tell everyone how much they are the part, but they are just paper tigers

[miked]

The problem with the death counts (and infection counts) is that most intelligent people (scientists and alike) are fairly certain that they are underestimated. Look at Florida's pneumonia death spike the month or two before we started tallying Covid deaths. Probably a large percentage of that delta can likely be attributed to Covid, but not with certainty. So about 40% of the country will listen to dear leader when he cries that revised death counts are just inflated to make him look bad.

Same with infection rates, it is likely that the death rate is not much higher than the flu if we tested as rigorously as that. But the death rate is more highly concentrated in the older bracket and the spread is much higher. All these things put together will mean any numbers are totally meaningless for a chunk of the population.

[JPhillips]

DoJ drops investigation into Sen. Loeffler.

The pool of corruption is bottomless.

[tarcone]

Damn, where do I get my inside info?

[Lathum]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...el-fact-check/

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

DoJ drops investigation into Sen. Loeffler.

The pool of corruption is bottomless.

What a coincidence.

Sen. Loeffler’s husband cuts $1 million check to pro-Trump super PAC - POLITICO

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What a coincidence.

Sen. Loeffler’s husband cuts $1 million check to pro-Trump super PAC - POLITICO

Only costs $1M? Damn - that's a bargain

SI

[CrimsonFox]

4 Minneapolis Police Officers Fired Over George Floyd Death | HuffPost

[thesloppy]

Trump going to war with Twitter on Twitter has so much potential (for chaos, entertainment & hopefully distracting him from a last-second nuclear arms race), don't fuck it up big guy!

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...el-fact-check/

Because I follow a bunch of law professors on Twitter, I saw a flood of the same reaction to President Trump's denouncement of Twitter's fact check--"Trump's understanding of the First Amendment is very wrong, and here's specifically why . . ."

And, three and a half years in, I think I am starting to get Trump's appeal. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment leads to a result you like. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment is grounded in principles in which you believe. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment is one piece that fits in the mosaic of American conservative thought. It is that Trump's take on the First Amendment is your take on the First Amendment. He can say whatever he wants, and the people who disagree with him can't say anything. That's what he believes it says. And, critically, that's what most of us believe it says.

We all know vaguely what the First Amendment says. But, boy, it sure seems that when the law professors and judges get a hold of it, they fuck it up. Guys get to burn flags. Those weirdos get to protest at soldier's funerals. There's too much praying at school. Or there isn't enough praying at school. That guy has to bake that gay wedding cake. Or he does not have to bake it.

Whatever.

The First Amendment is easy. I get free speech. You shut the fuck up. And Trump gets the unwavering support of everyone who feels condescended to whenever some judge or law professor tries to correct them.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Because I follow a bunch of law professors on Twitter, I saw a flood of the same reaction to President Trump's denouncement of Twitter's fact check--"Trump's understanding of the First Amendment is very wrong, and here's specifically why . . ."

And, three and a half years in, I think I am starting to get Trump's appeal. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment leads to a result you like. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment is grounded in principles in which you believe. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment is one piece that fits in the mosaic of American conservative thought. It is that Trump's take on the First Amendment is your take on the First Amendment. He can say whatever he wants, and the people who disagree with him can't say anything. That's what he believes it says. And, critically, that's what most of us believe it says.

We all know vaguely what the First Amendment says. But, boy, it sure seems that when the law professors and judges get a hold of it, they fuck it up. Guys get to burn flags. Those weirdos get to protest at soldier's funerals. There's too much praying at school. Or there isn't enough praying at school. That guy has to bake that gay wedding cake. Or he does not have to bake it.

Whatever.

The First Amendment is easy. I get free speech. You shut the fuck up. And Trump gets the unwavering support of everyone who feels condescended to whenever some judge or law professor tries to correct them.

Wedding cakes and masks are all the proof you need.

[JPhillips]

I think it's all about cruelty. Growing up in a rural community, cruelty was how one expressed manhood. Cruelty to other men, by bullying and isolating, cruelty to women, by treating them as disposable objects for gratification and physically dominating them when necessary, cruelty to animals, by needlessly killing and abuse just to show who is boss, and cruelty to self, by not being allowed to express and ultimately feel pain and emotions associated with femininity. That's what I chased as a kid, but I was never able to do everything in the way that would make me respected. Sure it eventually fucks you up and leaves you isolated and full of rage, but that's what it means to be a man.

Trump is the ideal man of cruelty, and to people still living with that as an embodiment of manhood, I can see the appeal. Trump says cruelty is okay and a lack of cruelty makes you less of a man.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I think I am starting to get Trump's appeal. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment leads to a result you like. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment is grounded in principles in which you believe. It isn't that Trump's take on the First Amendment is one piece that fits in the mosaic of American conservative thought. It is that Trump's take on the First Amendment is your take on the First Amendment. He can say whatever he wants, and the people who disagree with him can't say anything. That's what he believes it says. And, critically, that's what most of us believe it says.

Yeah, along those same lines, I am continually amazed at how robust & self-sustaining 'do & say whatever you want' is as a lifestyle/model-of-corruption.

You would think that putting as little effort as possible into the planning and/or concealment of one's grift would be a recipe for disaster. Instead it's somehow a recipe for Teflon, and the endless layering of incompetence on top of incompetence sends the righteous, capable folks running away in frustration, rather than trying to confront or contain the slobbering beast.

...I want to say that anyone putting in even a fraction more effort or thought would probably have failed before placing the first card, let alone building the same kind of house as Donald Trump...but I also don't want to ignore how essential being born into money & power were to whatever makes up his unique formula. Practically from birth he's been able to throw mountains of money and influence at whatever realities he doesn't want to believe until they bend, one way or another.