Baseball sims 2008

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Am I correct in assuming OOTP is still unable to accurately reflect the MLB in terms of the financial/contracts and realistic roster moves aspect of the league?I have no interest in setting up custom fictional leagues, Im looking for the baseball equivalent of FOF or something close to it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

+1

With OOTP there's too many moving parts that can result in things getting messed up it seems to me, and you end up with weird-ass results.

So are the BM stats/AI Roster Management better than OOTP? I'm trying to figure out if this is actually a better game, or if people are just moving to it out of some kind of OOTP spite, which is what it sounds like.

Because (IMO), you can certainly get "reasonably realistic" stats in OOTP, especially if you scale it down into a BM like universe.

So what better, BM, or OOTP scaled down to a BM type-game?

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm not moving to it because of OOTP spite, but rather because I find OOTP lacking in a few critical areas and I want to answer those questions you are asking for myself.

Edit: The 24.95 price point is low enough that I won't feel that bad if it ends up being a bomb since I haven't bought the series for a few years.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'm not moving to it because of OOTP spite, but rather because I find OOTP lacking in a few critical areas and I want to answer those questions you are asking for myself.

Edit: The 24.95 price point is low enough that I won't feel that bad if it ends up being a bomb since I haven't bought the series for a few years.

It only took about an hour and a half to download the file.

Second impression. I really like how easy it is to set up the league. 5 choices on the main menu:

Modern which immediately gives you control of any team with real players and real minor league rosters as of 2008. All data looks realistic such as population, financials, etc. It took seconds to set up.

Classic which lets you pick any starting year from 1901 to 2007. I took control of the Phillies in 1920 and that went very smoothly. It then had appropriate financial, city population, etc from that era in the setup screen. This option uses the Lahman data and has an option to loads players stats from previous years. It took under a minute to set up with that option on.

Fictional which allows you to take over a fictional league any year from 1901 to 2008, but with real players stats loaded into the universe as a backstory if you choose. I didn't try that, yet.

Expansion: Take over either the Angels in 61, Senators in 61, Colts in 62, Mets in 62, Royals in 69, Expos in 69, Padres in 69, Pilots in 69, Mariners in 77, Blue Jays in 77, Rockies in 93, Marlins in 93, Diamondbacks in 98, or Devil Rays in 98. This mode already has the players on the team which I think is a mistake. I'd probably actually use it if I could shape the team from their first step. I hope that might be changed. Still took under a minute to set up.

Custom: For running a fantasy draft, setting up a custom universe, etc. I'll mess around with that later.

Again, there is something to be said for ease of use and ease of setting up.

[MizzouRah]

If you want really accurate rosters, a user named HoustonGM will have his out around the first week of April.

I have a BM 08 dynasty "lite" over in the dynasty forum that should give you an somewhat of an idea of the stats it produces, I also can click on anything in my almanac and give you anything specific you want.

It's not a baseball stat junkies dream game... but what it is - a game that's deep enough for the average baseball gamer, with one of the best interfaces in the text sim business, and I find it to be quite immersive.

I haven't tried the pbp, so I can't comment on that aspect. Plus I'm waiting to get done with my last season in 08 before getting 09.

Get the skin and logos by "Enzoli" as well as the player photos from the mods forum.

BM does not have a FA bidding session, the CPU gets their players, then you negotiate with yours.. a few other differences as well. I just love being able to fire it up and play a few months without it being a click fest.

[Galaril]

Well, a lot of good and useful discussions here on the two main career sims. I have decided to go the route of the replay sim and had narrowed it down to Dave Koch's Action PC Baseball and Strat-o-matic's computer basball version. I decided to go with Action after doing a bunch of research on the two forums that helped my decision. I think if I was going with a board game it would of been Strat but not for computer.Though the replay sims are more expensive, $44.00 for game and three seasons and 19.95 for each additional season; I also spent a ton over the years on career sims. I have over the years bought Puresim 2005, 2007,OOTP 5,6,6.5,2007 and BM 2005, 2006,and2007 . And after all that I still haven't found a statisfying game like the Roos Games outstanding replay pro football game. All I know is I could of bought a lot of seasons with all the money spent on those games I just mentioned.

[FBPro]

DMB is the king of the replay sims, though it is less than perfect. I've had Action down through the years and to me it just seemed a little on the shallow side.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by FBPro

DMB is the king of the replay sims, though it is less than perfect. I've had Action down through the years and to me it just seemed a little on the shallow side.

I tired DMB and might be a great sim engine but god it had a terrible UI.imho. I returned my copy for a refund. DMB now has been bought by a guy who from what I have seen and heard is pretty much an arrogant jerk (Derek Smart-type) who is set on turning away from the games originally fan base of solo replay gamer and trying to make the game another Everquest or something...........But, as for Action Baseball, most people seem to be in agreement, that despite it's occassional issues here and there it's accuracy is comparable to SOM or DMB.YMMV I will give it a shot and see if it is at least better than BM or Puresim.

[PilotMan]

I just picked up my copy of BM '08 a couple of days ago at Half-Price Bookstore for 7.98. It is the first one that I have played since the original. Glad to hear that it is money well spent.

[cougarfreak]

Does BM have an almanac? And if so, is it as deep as OOTP's? Does it import correct leaderboards, say if you start in 1950?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Does BM have an almanac? And if so, is it as deep as OOTP's? Does it import correct leaderboards, say if you start in 1950?

It has a new encyclopedia but I don't know how deep it is as compared to OOTPS.

[Buccaneer]

I thought I would never see DMB and Everquest mentioned in the same sentence. Can you elaborate?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I thought I would never see DMB and Everquest mentioned in the same sentence. Can you elaborate?

What I meant was that they appear to be spending a great deal of time and comapny resources on marketing and developing this new online DMB game where you pay as you go and not much is being said regrading the original "offline" game.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Does BM have an almanac? And if so, is it as deep as OOTP's? Does it import correct leaderboards, say if you start in 1950?

There was a bug for me (not everyone had this issue) that showed the LA Angels as every team for every year except the ones I played, so I don't think it worked right for me.

It has been fixed in 09 and one the new features of 09 is the encyclopedia is expanded.

I use it for 2007 and beyond and it's not close to as deep as CATO's for OOTP, but it's decent and I can't wait to see how Clay has expanded it for 2009.

[sooner333]

What level do you guys usually play Mogul at? I just decided to get it.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by sooner333

What level do you guys usually play Mogul at? I just decided to get it.

Mogul

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm trying it at Manager (3rd of 4 difficulties) and I'll move up to Mogul when I start a serious career as it is too easy to negotiate guys cheaply.

[lynchjm24]

Any feedback on the new game? It's out right?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Any feedback on the new game? It's out right?

Yes it's out. I haven't purchased yet due to finishing up my 08 career and I always like to wait for HoustonGM's roster and any initial patch that fixes bugs that crop up after release.

[MizzouRah]

Bought 09 today.. love the new depth chart screen, once I get some games in, I'll comment more.

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Bought 09 today.. love the new depth chart screen, once I get some games in, I'll comment more.

Anxiously awaiting your thoughts. The last time I checked, the demo is not out yet. But I'm considering buying BM this year for the first time in several versions. I'll probably get burned again, but OOTP just hasn't been fun for solo play in my opinion - too much work. Too bad there won't be a new Puresim this year.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Anxiously awaiting your thoughts. The last time I checked, the demo is not out yet. But I'm considering buying BM this year for the first time in several versions. I'll probably get burned again, but OOTP just hasn't been fun for solo play in my opinion - too much work. Too bad there won't be a new Puresim this year.

I decided to upgrade mid BM 08 season and all looks good. The encyclopedia bug still seems to be there, although I guess it could be in my .mog file from 08.

I'll get some good game time in today and have some more thoughts.

Edit: There is not alot new as of yet besides the depth chart screen, fonts that appear darker and easier to read, some encyclopedia enhancements, and a new quickstart screen I haven't used due to importing my current career file. I know Clay has a "release" patch coming soon to clean up some things though.

I would recommend heading over and reading some impressions from their forums as well.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Anxiously awaiting your thoughts. The last time I checked, the demo is not out yet. But I'm considering buying BM this year for the first time in several versions. I'll probably get burned again, but OOTP just hasn't been fun for solo play in my opinion - too much work. Too bad there won't be a new Puresim this year.

Shaun did release a patch today that adds support for the newest Lahman, and fixes some big gripes from critics as well as 40 man rosters.

[DaddyTorgo]

messing around with the demo for BBM 09. Really not sure what way I will go this year for a baseball sim...

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Shaun did release a patch today that adds support for the newest Lahman, and fixes some big gripes from critics as well as 40 man rosters.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I've played a decent amount of BM09, and, like many past versions, it is great for fun, quick and dirty simulations. I have a great time playing it. However, I would not say it does a great job of accurately representing MLB.

That is too bad about BM. I fired up th new patched Puresim and was mildly disappointed by the way hisitorical player went even with affinity on. I can surely say it isn't close to a replay baseball sim type accuracy but since that isn't it's primary purpose I guess that is alright. Financial not sure what to say they still looked fucked. Three seaosn replays of 07 seaosn and all three times the Brewers were first in salary cap (highest) Redsox were 8th and Yankees 14th . Also the default AI managers are still somewhat off. I saw alot of instances where the AI left the closer forexample Rivera in game for 3innings or never broguht the closer in the ninth. Also, on my team the Red Sox I set the hook for each pitcher and it doesn't appear to be very accurate. Forexmaple Tim Wakfield pitched 10.2 innings despite the fact he was set to the patient (mid settin for hook).His oitch count was 120 pithces and he had given up only 2 runs and 8 hits in the first 9 innings but in the 10th he walked the bases loaded and give up a walkoff grandslam.

[MizzouRah]

I think BM is fine at representing MLB. It's not OOTP type accuracy, but it's fun and addicting.

Once patch 11.05 is out (should be anyday) and HoustonGM has his roster set out, I would say that's the time to try the game for those on the fence.

[Sgran]

Isn't shaun joining wolverine?

[Gary Gorski]

Yes Shaun has joined Wolverine and will produce Draft Day Sports: Baseball for us. DDS:BB will be built off of the PureSim engine - essentially its the next version of PureSim but prior to doing that he updated PureSim one more time for the people who purchased it from Matrix.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I think BM is fine at representing MLB. It's not OOTP type accuracy, but it's fun and addicting.

Once patch 11.05 is out (should be anyday) and HoustonGM has his roster set out, I would say that's the time to try the game for those on the fence.

Trying the demo and I am pleasantly surprised. A nice amount of detail and not too cumbersome to navigate the interface. The in game animations are nice and add a little flavor (reminds me a little of Microleague) and it has a pretty nice almanac. Definitely not as deep as OOTP, but still fun.

A question for anyone who has it. In the custom league option can you import entire teams from different eras to play each in the same league?

[MizzouRah]

An "unofficial" patch 11.06 is out.

I would ask that question over at the BM forums BYU.

Funny thing is, I just found out by clicking on the last 5 columns in the standings screen allows you to select other stat categories, much like you can do on the leaders page.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

A question for anyone who has it. In the custom league option can you import entire teams from different eras to play each in the same league?

I've never done it but I'm 99% sure yes.

[Logan]

Picked this up over the weekend, and am thru about 2 months of a Mets career.

I'm really having a lot of fun with this. I would be much further along if I wasn't completely into the play-by-play mode. Seeing the game play out on screen, even if the animations are pretty simple, really takes the game to another level. I think the trading AI could use some work, the in-game AI could probably be a little better (I rarely see opponents tag up, but there is sort of a slider system so maybe that could be adjusted), and there seem to be too many injuries (I knocked this way down), but like I said, extremely fun and addicting. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

EF27 mentioned how the expansion mode would be much better if we could start from scratch with each team, and I definitely agree. Is there any chance of that being added?

Also, the last version I played was I believe the original...and this version reminded me of how awesome the Newspaper was in that game. Good to see it's still around, and I wish other games incorporated it as well.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Logan

Picked this up over the weekend, and am thru about 2 months of a Mets career.

I'm really having a lot of fun with this. I would be much further along if I wasn't completely into the play-by-play mode. Seeing the game play out on screen, even if the animations are pretty simple, really takes the game to another level. I think the trading AI could use some work, the in-game AI could probably be a little better (I rarely see opponents tag up, but there is sort of a slider system so maybe that could be adjusted), and there seem to be too many injuries (I knocked this way down), but like I said, extremely fun and addicting. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

EF27 mentioned how the expansion mode would be much better if we could start from scratch with each team, and I definitely agree. Is there any chance of that being added?

Also, the last version I played was I believe the original...and this version reminded me of how awesome the Newspaper was in that game. Good to see it's still around, and I wish other games incorporated it as well.

Glad you are liking it! I've been playing the heck out of it.

[Godzilla Blitz]

For Baseball Mogul, I'd be curious if someone could answer these:

How do leagues look after a decade or so of play? In the past, league stats could really get out of whack after 10-15 years.

Does the free agent market clear well each year? In the past, there could be tons of great free agents wasting away in free agency at the start of the season. Sometimes this would take a few years to develop.

The thing is, those two issues really sucked in some versions of the game and totally rocked in other versions. I just got tired of figuring out which way a particular version of BM would go. Problems with those issues would make the game unplayable for me, and they often would either never get fixed or get fixed piecemeal over several months. And sometimes Clay would disappear for several months, and who knew what was going on.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

For Baseball Mogul, I'd be curious if someone could answer these:

How do leagues look after a decade or so of play? In the past, league stats could really get out of whack after 10-15 years.

Does the free agent market clear well each year? In the past, there could be tons of great free agents wasting away in free agency at the start of the season. Sometimes this would take a few years to develop.

The thing is, those two issues really sucked in some versions of the game and totally rocked in other versions. I just got tired of figuring out which way a particular version of BM would go. Problems with those issues would make the game unplayable for me, and they often would either never get fixed or get fixed piecemeal over several months. And sometimes Clay would disappear for several months, and who knew what was going on.

good point. i'd be curious to hear what mizzou has to say about this

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I can't really speak to league stats as I haven't looked at any aggregates, but I feel that individual stats are pretty good, although there seem to be too many elite batters in my opinion. I don't even know where I'd find this info in the game, assuming you mean total runs scored, etc.



There are many good (83 to 87 rated) free agents available for cheap 1 year deals on April 1st.

Yeah, getting good league data was part of the issue with Mogul back then as well. It's been a few years now, but I remember getting at it by looking at Team ERAs in the first year (I put them in an Excel sheet), then revisiting them after a 15- to 20-year sim. In the last version I looked at, there were clear and strong changes over time. I forget which way the game always went (more runs or less), but there was something wrong with the player generation balance in the game. You could then further identity the problem by glancing at league leaders, etc., but it was all hit and miss as to specifics.

Not every version of the game did this, however. Some years things were spot on, and you could run a career for thirty or forty years with great numbers.

If I remember correctly, the free agent problem sometimes corrected itself after a few years as well, so judging it by one year was tricky. In some versions, however, the problem would get worse each year.

Maybe things have gotten better with Baseball Mogul, but I'm still hesitant.

[MizzouRah]

I'm only 3 years in.. everything seems ok so far.

[MizzouRah]

Link to HoustonGM's opening day roster for BM 09: http://www.keepmyfile.com/download/2ab05f2208951

He does one hell of a job.