DDS: College Football 2017

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm interested.

Wolverine Studios Draft Day Sports College Football 2017

Draft Day Sports: College Football 2017 Announced!

We have been teasing a new game announcement as the final portion of our 10th Anniversary Celebration and here it is! Wolverine Studios is very excited to announce that Brooks Piggott has been hard at work developing Draft Day Sports: College Football 2017 – make sure you are following along on our blog and social media outlets for updates about our exciting new college football game and be sure to join in the discussion regarding the game in our forums. We will be bringing more details to you in the coming weeks as we are very excited to share this brand new game with you! For now, enjoy our announcement trailer regarding the game.

[BYU 14]

At last!! I am beyond stoked for this!

[MizzouRah]

How is gfx and ai?

[Balldog]

Intrigued but I have had a real hard time getting into the Wolverine games for some reason.


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[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Intrigued but I have had a real hard time getting into the Wolverine games for some reason.


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This is my feeling as well.

Not sure what it is.

[wustin]

Their games upon release are always filled with bugs. A lot of crashes.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by wustin

Their games upon release are always filled with bugs. A lot of crashes.

That is a patently unfair statement - our 2016 version releases certainly were not filled with bugs and a lot of crashes. Anyone is free to visit our forums and see posts and the update logs to see how things actually were for those games.

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

That is a patently unfair statement - our 2016 version releases certainly were not filled with bugs and a lot of crashes. Anyone is free to visit our forums and see posts and the update logs to see how things actually were for those games.

I know the games gets patched (I regularly download the updates from the forum). I also know you have very few people working on it. But you can't deny the first weeks of CB and PB there were an awful lot of bugs. Even when I'm still playing, I'm continuously paranoid with saving my progress. Mostly because in the back of my mind I might misclick or click around too much, hit the wrong button and make the game crash.

Had either game released on steam, it would get a lot of negative reviews in the first week. First impressions are everything.

Edit: The most annoying bug was while recruiting in CB2016. God that was the worst. Never had I been so paranoid switching between domestic and international recruits.

[Comey]

For the record, I haven't had a single crash with PB.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Comey

For the record, I haven't had a single crash with PB.

Me either (knock on wood)

[SlyBelle1]

Only interested if single player experience is a strong focus...could never immerse myself in the Pro game because it felt like a multi-player game trying to provide some level of single player experience, but not really getting there in my opinion.

[wustin]

Well I didn't play PB as much as I did with CB. That first few weeks of CB was a struggle but i still enjoyed playing, I just had to make sure I saved my progress constantly because game crashes were imminent while recruiting.

Most of my crashes in PB came from the then obnoxious draft board and tinkering with things while in commish mode.

[jbergey22]

I dont have crash issues with Gary's games. They update frequently and listen to the customer base. Certainly worth a look.

[Mota]

I've played about 150 games of both the Pro and College Basketball games since my last crash. I have to admit the past Wolverine games really had a lot of crashes affect me, but after the first or second patch it's been smooooooth.

I didn't pick up the Pro Football game because I feel well served in that sport, but a College Football really fills a need in the market and I'll probably pick that one up.

[korme]

CB crashed so much for me to the point where I gave up playing it. I got tired of wasting my hours.

[korme]

Originally Posted by wustin

Well I didn't play PB as much as I did with CB. That first few weeks of CB was a struggle but i still enjoyed playing, I just had to make sure I saved my progress constantly because game crashes were imminent while recruiting.

Most of my crashes in PB came from the then obnoxious draft board and tinkering with things while in commish mode.

The draft is still sometimes an issue in PB, and certainly every time expansion is run the screens overlap and I just have to click up top and hope I hit the CPU Finish button correctly

[JimboJ]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Only interested if single player experience is a strong focus...could never immerse myself in the Pro game because it felt like a multi-player game trying to provide some level of single player experience, but not really getting there in my opinion.

+1

[Easy Mac]

Whatever happened to that football game Sports Interactive was working on?

[muns]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Whatever happened to that football game Sports Interactive was working on?

If I remember correctly the lead developer had a heart attack, and then stepped down, and it took some time to get a new guy in there. I believe the new guy is currently working on it still.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong though

As a side note, I am interested in this and will be watching the progress. A college game is well past due and am happy to hear someone is coming out with something.

[Balldog]

Mostly I find recruiting to be painful...would be great to see that revamped for College Bball and this...something similar to NCAA 14 would be better IMO




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[General Mike]

I'm desperate for any new college football game, so I'll probably give this a shot.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Congrats Gary and Wolverine Studios, I love the fact it's a college football game. We need more of these types of text games.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Mostly I find recruiting to be painful...would be great to see that revamped for College Bball and this...something similar to NCAA 14 would be better IMO

I appreciate good feedback - one thing I don't get to do much is spend alot of time gaming and usually nothing sports wise outside of Wolverine Studios games. Can you elaborate a little bit more on what specifically you don't like or would like to see done differently?

[Balldog]

Hi Gary

I think overall the current process is very clunky, painful to navigate, and overall too time consuming.

I appreciate the intent to make it in-depth but don't find it really to be so.

I like the idea of setting a recruiting gameplan then making minor tweaks as the time progresses and you see recruits leaning certain ways.

Here is a link to an article on how a team recruits...

http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/201303100131

In simple terms, recruits had similar desires to what your games reflect. Your school has a real time rating on each category.

You devote 'x' amount of 'y' time/points to each recruit. You can adjust this weekly if you see you are losing or gaining ground.

You schedule visits - timing of visit gives extra points or penalizes.

It is a simple yet effective and in-depth enough in my opinion.

Calling a recruit weekly to find out more about what is important to them seems very archaic and again clunky.

Hope this helps some, I can elaborate more later (about to jump on a plane)


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[jbergey22]

Maybe something like if you list your recruit targets 1-10 or 1-25 and the AI puts more weight on getting your #1 targets. Getting your recruits is a feel good experience but the time spent on doing it and the frustration of not really feeling in much control over the situation is frustrating. In the end we spend a lot of time recruiting and ending up with the same level players if the AI had just did it.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Hi Gary



http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/201303100131

Keeps saying "access denied" when I click on the article - can you re-post?

[tarcone]

Id like to see things like proximity to school from home, winning program, likes HC, etc. to be used in recruiting process.
That was one thing I loved about NCAA college football.

[Young Drachma]

So much clicking. It's an abnormal click fest. Way better UI than some of the others and we surely need a new text sim that's college football focused, but the recruiting in that game always turned me off.

[Gary Gorski]

First Look At Draft Day Sports: College Football 2017 - Wolverine Studios

Time to start putting out some news on the upcoming new game - today just a quickie with a look at a screen and a quick discussion of the UI.

I know some here were not a fan of sort of the UI that came about for DDS: Pro Football 2016 so hopefully DDS:CF 2017 getting the "full DDS" interface treatment will be welcomed.

As often times in a partnership the benefits of working together aren't necessarily realized right out of the gate but I'm happy to have been able to totally build the DDS:CF interface from the ground up making it feel just like the basketball games. I'm also excited that we can start taking some of the other best ideas and share them between games. One example of this is talked about in the post in regards to the UI.

Another item discussed in this thread was recruiting being realistic but time consuming in DDS:CB. DDS:CF has a totally different method of recruiting and a different recruiting interface to go with it. If the feedback in those areas is positive it is something that can make its way into the college hoops game.

I'm very happy to have Brooks aboard at Wolverine and I think that DDS:CF is going to be a very positive start for a new franchise there. I hope you guys will follow along and check it out!

[Galaril]

Gary,

Is this likely a 2016 release or something we will more likely see released before football season in 2017.

[dawgfan]

With Jim leaving this market wide-open, there's a big void to be filled. I'll be keeping an eye on this one.

[tarcone]

I liked the Ui in this one. Hoping it is easy to use.

[SlyBelle1]

I know the UI is important, but I can't wait to learn about actual game features and functionality...hoping the single player experience has evolved tremendously versus current version of Pro football.....that will be my main decision as to whether I continue investing in this series. Trust me, I really hope it is good in that aspect, I am always looking for good sports games.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Gary,

Is this likely a 2016 release or something we will more likely see released before football season in 2017.

2016 - the game is pretty much done at this point. We're testing, I've got a couple UI items to finish up then we're going to run it through another level of testing and move to release.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

I know the UI is important, but I can't wait to learn about actual game features and functionality...hoping the single player experience has evolved tremendously versus current version of Pro football.....that will be my main decision as to whether I continue investing in this series. Trust me, I really hope it is good in that aspect, I am always looking for good sports games.

I was very insistent on a particular feature aimed squarely at single player mode so I hope it hits the target

One thing I want to say especially since this space has been neglected for some time now - this is the first run of the game, much like I consider the pro game to have been. We tried some things for the pro game, took the feedback and improved things not well received (like the UI) for the college game. With a first version of both games we can take the things that people like and improve on what they don't and in the end have an awesome experience.

If this community especially will give the game a look and some support it can become what you want it to be much like the basketball games have evolved over time. Brooks has been very responsive to things I felt were important based on feedback and is an excellent developer. The more support and fair critiques we receive the better the games can become over time and as we find out what works well and what the community likes with our new approaches we will put them into the other games.

This particular update was simply a visual one - proof that we heard the complaints that the pro game felt too much like PFS so we scrapped the entire UI of the football format and built from the DDS style and improved upon that even. The same will hold true with the functionality of the games - the more people, especially from a community built around a football sim, that play and give us feedback the stronger the games will get - just like they did with FOF, OOTP and like I said the DDS basketball games.

[SlyBelle1]

Thanks for the update and I do understand its an evolution but just wanted to give you my perspective. To be honest, even though the UI wasn't great in the Pro game, I could have lived with it. I might be just one of those people who prefer the substance, features, AI, more so than the look and feel.

At this point it is not fair for me to judge the substance since we haven't seen any of the features yet so I'll reserve my judgement until more information is released, hoping it advances single player experience. But if it remains similar to the Pro football game where it feels more "multiplayer" driven and such, just not something I am interested in although I completely understand others might be.

So I am hoping for the best but remain cautious until more information is learned...since game is pretty much done per your comments, seems like we might find out soon enough.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Thanks for the update and I do understand its an evolution but just wanted to give you my perspective. To be honest, even though the UI wasn't great in the Pro game, I could have lived with it. I might be just one of those people who prefer the substance, features, AI, more so than the look and feel.

At this point it is not fair for me to judge the substance since we haven't seen any of the features yet so I'll reserve my judgement until more information is released, hoping it advances single player experience. But if it remains similar to the Pro football game where it feels more "multiplayer" driven and such, just not something I am interested in although I completely understand others might be.

So I am hoping for the best but remain cautious until more information is learned...since game is pretty much done per your comments, seems like we might find out soon enough.

Well let me ask you directly then - what would you like to see to advance the single player experience. If its not there perhaps I can ask if strides can be made to add something.

I very much care when a customer says "I would buy your game and support your company if it did X" and then can tell me what X is. At that point its on us and if we can do it now we do, if we can't do it until later we note it and work to add it later and if its something way out in left field like the person who used to ask me to add the WNBA and the ability to "play" the slam dunk contest then I know we're probably not going to get that sale

[SlyBelle1]

Just a few things and of course based on pro game which may not be applicable to college game.

- roster management seemed questionable when cpu made decisions
- no kind of coaching staff
- questionable drafting
- no real trading
- little things like not proper pre season game management or pro bowl personnel use
- questionable play calls at times
- lack of news stories, events, interactions
- ensure realistic stats per how the team is coached
- etc

Just some examples but the major stuff is around having a good cpu make sensible decisions where the human player doesn't have to assume responsibility like in multi player games.

If you want to add me to the test team I can let you know if feeling improved

[bhlloy]

Make the recruiting exactly like TCY. Maybe without the academic emphasis/exploits but seriously that game nailed the feel of recruiting and college football like nothing else.

[tarcone]

Solo play and recruiting are big wants from me. And an eay to use UI.

I play FBCB and the recruiting is such a crap shoot. I never have any idea what Im doing. I would like a little more depth to recruiting.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Solo play and recruiting are big wants from me. And an eay to use UI.

I play FBCB and the recruiting is such a crap shoot. I never have any idea what Im doing. I would like a little more depth to recruiting.

I think the biggest issue with recruiting in FBCB is lack of feedback. There's a lot going on under the hood that isn't directly communicated to the user. If you've played the game a lot and read what Brian has said about how it works, it's easier to figure out, but I think he acknowledges that the next version needs to expose more things directly such has how much the recruits value team prestige, conference prestige, playing time, distance from home, etc.

If this game can nail recruiting to where it feels realistic enough (with enough feedback so you don't feel like you're flying blind) but not a horrible slog, that will go a long way.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Make the recruiting exactly like TCY. Maybe without the academic emphasis/exploits but seriously that game nailed the feel of recruiting and college football like nothing else.

I hated recruiting in TCY, probably why I used TCY Helper so much.

I hate it in all college games though.. I let the AI handle it in NCAA on the consoles.

Guess that means this game isn't for me unless recruiting is fun and not a chore. I know that's the point of college sports, but just seems like rinse and repeat in most games.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I hated recruiting in TCY, probably why I used TCY Helper so much.

I hate it in all college games though.. I let the AI handle it in NCAA on the consoles.

Guess that means this game isn't for me unless recruiting is fun and not a chore. I know that's the point of college sports, but just seems like rinse and repeat in most games.

I think for me what makes recruiting fun and not just a necessary evil is the combination of scouting - feeling like I've found an overlooked gem - and the gamesmanship of competing against other schools.

One of the cool things about FBCB is that if you're at a less prestigious school, you can still succeed by finding a particular style of play and focusing on finding players that have skills in the areas that fit that style and being willing to overlook weaknesses in other areas. I could see something similar working in a college football sim provided it had that kind of depth that allowed certain traits to have value in certain systems.

One of the things I've liked in the EA NCAA series is the interaction with the recruits. When you contact a recruit, you should be able to glean the things that matter to them, and then use that info to determine how well you, your staff, your school and your roster and style of play fit with what that recruit is looking for.

A few years ago I fired up TCY again just for kicks, and there's still a lot about that game that holds up. While the recruiting wasn't super detailed in terms of feedback, there was enough level of info that you could make some educated decisions about whether to pursue a player or not. I would have liked to see more feedback in knowing how your school stacked-up in comparison to others that were pursuing a recruit (this is an area where FBCB has an edge), and the whole "Black", "Blue", "Red", "Green" coloration thing never felt totally dialed-in, but it had enough depth without feeling like too much of a slog IMO.

Different strokes for different folks though. I suppose a big win for the game would be if allowing the AI to handle recruiting doesn't result in disaster so that people that don't really want to deal with recruiting can feel like not doing so won't cripple their experience playing the game.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I think the biggest issue with recruiting in FBCB is lack of feedback. There's a lot going on under the hood that isn't directly communicated to the user. If you've played the game a lot and read what Brian has said about how it works, it's easier to figure out, but I think he acknowledges that the next version needs to expose more things directly such has how much the recruits value team prestige, conference prestige, playing time, distance from home, etc.

If this game can nail recruiting to where it feels realistic enough (with enough feedback so you don't feel like you're flying blind) but not a horrible slog, that will go a long way.

Yes. This is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I think for me what makes recruiting fun and not just a necessary evil is the combination of scouting - feeling like I've found an overlooked gem - and the gamesmanship of competing against other schools.

One of the cool things about FBCB is that if you're at a less prestigious school, you can still succeed by finding a particular style of play and focusing on finding players that have skills in the areas that fit that style and being willing to overlook weaknesses in other areas. I could see something similar working in a college football sim provided it had that kind of depth that allowed certain traits to have value in certain systems.

I think this is a really good point that hits it on the head for me. As noted FBCB does this pretty well and it's also one of the things that FM absolutely nails - you can have two players rated 90 in CA at the same position who are the complete opposite and one of them could be an absolute stud for you depending on the style you want to play and how you use them. Of course it's unfair to compare any sports sim to FM but the point still stands. NBA 2k16 series is another one that does this well. That 75 ranked PG might be better than the 78 ranked PG if you value a guy who can pass rather than shoot.

Too many sports sims IMO fall into the trap of "good player is good at everything, bad player sucks at everything". It always drove me nuts in College Hoops 2k (which was an amazing game overall) as a small school, I could never get a player who was really good at three point shooting - because all those players were also good at everything else.

Bit off the point maybe but I do feel like this is always something that has been a little bit lacking from GDS games. Ultimately whether a sports sim will succeed or fail is largely whether I feel like ratings actually matter on the field and makes a player play a particular way.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Bit off the point maybe but I do feel like this is always something that has been a little bit lacking from GDS games. Ultimately whether a sports sim will succeed or fail is largely whether I feel like ratings actually matter on the field and makes a player play a particular way.

Yep. Something a good college football sim could really use is an engine that understands there are multiple paths to success and that different offensive approaches and defensive approaches work best with certain player traits, and that the player pool is one with enough diversity to support a variety of approaches that can succeed.

TCY came out before shotgun spread offenses had really blossomed, and any good CFB sim now needs to support robust representations of offenses ranging from an old-school Paul Johnson flexbone to a Jim Harbaugh smashmouth pro style to a Chip Kelly spread option to a Mike Leach Air Raid to a mutant spread from Art Briles.

Where things could get potentially a bit too time-consuming is reflecting the variety of defensive looks and approaches teams will use depending on down and distance. While it would be realistic to set up a variety of defensive looks for various situations (say a 4-3 under as a standard base, but with a mix of 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 nickel packages as an example) I'd worry about running into the same slog I feel with baseball sims where every time I rest a player, make a trade, call up a player, put a player on the DL, etc I have to manually update four different lineup screens (vs. L, vs. R, with DH and without). This is an area where I think Jim has hit a sweet spot with FOF.

Anyway, yes - having players that have certain skills that fit better in certain offensive or defensive approaches than others and an engine that supports that kind of variety in offensive and defensive approaches would be awesome.

[dawgfan]

DOLA - another thing that comes to mind is a critique I had with TCY. I wished that the assistant coaches were more directly mapped to development of their position groups and recruiting of those position groups. When you look at how college coaches approach hiring assistants, it's generally those two attributes that are in play - how good are they at coaching up and developing players at a particular position, and how strong are they as recruiters? Most coaches aren't great at both, so you see head coaches make choices about what to emphasize - do I get a great teacher at the RB position, or is that where I put a guy that's not the greatest coach but is a rockstar recruiter?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I think for me what makes recruiting fun and not just a necessary evil is the combination of scouting - feeling like I've found an overlooked gem - and the gamesmanship of competing against other schools.

One of the cool things about FBCB is that if you're at a less prestigious school, you can still succeed by finding a particular style of play and focusing on finding players that have skills in the areas that fit that style and being willing to overlook weaknesses in other areas. I could see something similar working in a college football sim provided it had that kind of depth that allowed certain traits to have value in certain systems.

One of the things I've liked in the EA NCAA series is the interaction with the recruits. When you contact a recruit, you should be able to glean the things that matter to them, and then use that info to determine how well you, your staff, your school and your roster and style of play fit with what that recruit is looking for.

A few years ago I fired up TCY again just for kicks, and there's still a lot about that game that holds up. While the recruiting wasn't super detailed in terms of feedback, there was enough level of info that you could make some educated decisions about whether to pursue a player or not. I would have liked to see more feedback in knowing how your school stacked-up in comparison to others that were pursuing a recruit (this is an area where FBCB has an edge), and the whole "Black", "Blue", "Red", "Green" coloration thing never felt totally dialed-in, but it had enough depth without feeling like too much of a slog IMO.

Different strokes for different folks though. I suppose a big win for the game would be if allowing the AI to handle recruiting doesn't result in disaster so that people that don't really want to deal with recruiting can feel like not doing so won't cripple their experience playing the game.

Actually.. I did the recruiting part of TCY, I just hated the time management stuff.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Actually.. I did the recruiting part of TCY, I just hated the time management stuff.

Yeah, time management was a bit of a drag, mainly because dialing that in for 65 guys just takes a while. Loved TCY Helper for that kind of stuff in generating values for you based on your particular priorities. It's not so bad in FBCB since you only have 15 guys (at most) to worry about.

[FBPro]

Just can't handle the recruiting side of things......