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Old 08-01-2020, 11:41 PM   #19951
JonInMiddleGA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesloppy View Post
That's honestly what always scares me away Even $40 sounds reasonable compared to some of the places I've casually looked at (and $25 pre-covid sounds like an insane deal).

Those deals have been a thing around at least the suburbs here for a bit now apparently (largely unknown to me until recently). There's several under $50 options around even now, and several have been heavy users of Groupon with half-priced offers (though that's a mixed bag based on reviews, lot of hidden costs on some of those deals).

Could I have eaten $40 worth of food tonight on quantity alone? Easily.

Instead I opted to stay within comfortable limits of fullness and let the quality made up for it. The best explanation I've got for the taste tonight was that it was beef that tasted like it did when I was a kid 40+ years ago, most notably on the delicious nature of the fat on the edges.

At $25 pre-covid, this place would have been simply nuts for value.

The other $25 one I knew of (the one I originally intended to try) was kind of lacking in service/attitude (think Chinese-buffet-where-youre-treated-like-a-villain-for-coming-in) but did business on quantity if not quality.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:50 PM   #19952
Coffee Warlord
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Originally Posted by SirFozzie View Post
Fox Sports will be airing RollerGames in August and September. Yes, the show that originally aired 30 years ago is getting a re-air. Why? Because it's 30th anniversary? Some. Fox Sports running out of things to air during the summer? Likely. Because RollerGames was totally awesome and should have lasted longer then that hack show.. what was it called, American Gladiators? Totally.

That show was awesome to pre-teen me. I have a distinct feeling it likely will not hold up, though.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:04 AM   #19953
molson
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Hope they bring back the roller gator.

Rollergames - Alligator Sudden Death Overtime - YouTube

Though the moment I remember most is this one. I remember watching this at a friend's house.

Rollergames - Mr. Mean over the Wall of Death - YouTube

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Old 08-02-2020, 12:33 AM   #19954
stevew
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Rollerball
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:23 AM   #19955
SirFozzie
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Originally Posted by molson View Post
Hope they bring back the roller gator.

Rollergames - Alligator Sudden Death Overtime - YouTube

Though the moment I remember most is this one. I remember watching this at a friend's house.

Rollergames - Mr. Mean over the Wall of Death - YouTube

Yeah, Mr Mean taking flight was one of the coolest moments
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Old 08-02-2020, 08:59 AM   #19956
Coffee Warlord
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Rollergames suffered from the fact you couldn't build a course in your living room. American Gladiators, on the other hand ...
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:47 AM   #19957
NobodyHere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molson View Post
Hope they bring back the roller gator.

Wait, what?



Rollergator | RiffTrax

I thought I was the only one.
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Last edited by NobodyHere : 08-02-2020 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:00 AM   #19958
sterlingice
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Originally Posted by thesloppy View Post
I have always wanted to go to one of those Brazilian style steakhouses, but it has yet to happen.

To me, the best time to go on a budget is during your city's restaurant week/month. They usually take a few of the cuts out of the rotation but it saves you some bucks.

Typically my birthday is in August. Typically, Houston Restaurant Week is in August. Do the math as to where I like to celebrate the "Feast of my Birth!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Those deals have been a thing around at least the suburbs here for a bit now apparently (largely unknown to me until recently). There's several under $50 options around even now, and several have been heavy users of Groupon with half-priced offers (though that's a mixed bag based on reviews, lot of hidden costs on some of those deals).

Quote:
Could I have eaten $40 worth of food tonight on quantity alone? Easily.

Instead I opted to stay within comfortable limits of fullness and let the quality made up for it. The best explanation I've got for the taste tonight was that it was beef that tasted like it did when I was a kid 40+ years ago, most notably on the delicious nature of the fat on the edges.

I don't understand. Why not


The other thing I love to do at a Brazilian BBQ is just eat slow. We will sometimes spend 2 hours there and just savor every bite.

Since it's too expensive to go regularly, I love making the most of it.

SI
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:17 PM   #19959
cuervo72
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Yeah, I've tried to run through the calculations in my head on this one from a Korean BBQ standpoint. We've gone to a couple with work groups, and I'd swear for the one we were there for 3 hours, if not more. Just slow and steady. Essentially cuts I could get at H-Mart; I feel like I ate more than what it would have cost me to buy it myself (it was $20-$25) but I wonder what the profit margin was. Granted, not everyone is going to eat that much.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:00 PM   #19960
ISiddiqui
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Originally Posted by SirFozzie View Post
Well, the USPS was also required to prefund 75 years worth of pensions for everyone they hired, so they've been doing more with less.

And, IIRC, the USPS can’t raise its rates without Congressional approval, which is usually a pain in the ass.

The ‘sweetheart deal’ thing seems ridiculously silly, especially when the President tries to slam USPS doing a sweetheart deal with Amazon. 90% of the time whenever I order something from Amazon, it arrives from an Amazon delivery driver. Hardly ever do they hand it off to USPS - if it was such a sweetheart deal, I’d imagine they’d want to use them all the time.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:06 PM   #19961
JonInMiddleGA
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
And, IIRC, the USPS can’t raise its rates without Congressional approval, which is usually a pain in the ass.

The ‘sweetheart deal’ thing seems ridiculously silly, especially when the President tries to slam USPS doing a sweetheart deal with Amazon. 90% of the time whenever I order something from Amazon, it arrives from an Amazon delivery driver. Hardly ever do they hand it off to USPS - if it was such a sweetheart deal, I’d imagine they’d want to use them all the time.

Questions / criticism of various USPS deals predates the current administration by a LOT. They date back to at least the first major FedEx deal (dropboxes in return air transport) which was struck in 2001.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:07 AM   #19962
molson
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The definition of the term "gaslight" seems to be broadening at an alarming rate.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:12 AM   #19963
CU Tiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
90% of the time whenever I order something from Amazon, it arrives from an Amazon delivery driver. Hardly ever do they hand it off to USPS - if it was such a sweetheart deal, I’d imagine they’d want to use them all the time.


You have to look outside your perspective, for example Ive NEVER seen an amazon delivery truck Ive seen them on the highways, sure but never in my town or the two nearest that take you towards a metro) Yet I get Amazon packages from USPS damn near daily.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:17 AM   #19964
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We get slightly more Amazon packages from USPS than Amazon delivery trucks. It's close to 50/50 but more stuff ends up delivered by mail than not.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:22 AM   #19965
NobodyHere
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I have an Amazon delivery center being built literally 200 yards from my condo. I better start getting my packages delivered within 15 minutes.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:39 AM   #19966
ISiddiqui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CU Tiger View Post
You have to look outside your perspective, for example Ive NEVER seen an amazon delivery truck Ive seen them on the highways, sure but never in my town or the two nearest that take you towards a metro) Yet I get Amazon packages from USPS damn near daily.

You miss my point - if it was such a sweetheart deal, they'd do it everywhere for every package. Why waste time and money building a fleet of Amazon delivery couriers?
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:21 AM   #19967
CU Tiger
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
You miss my point - if it was such a sweetheart deal, they'd do it everywhere for every package. Why waste time and money building a fleet of Amazon delivery couriers?

False dichotomy?

Let me put it this way.

I can install a light bulb in my home for free ninety nine.
If I hire an electrician to do a house call the going rate is $60 trip charge.
If someone does it for $20 they are 1/3rd the going rate yet still more expensive than doing it myself.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:34 AM   #19968
ISiddiqui
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Originally Posted by CU Tiger View Post
False dichotomy?

Let me put it this way.

I can install a light bulb in my home for free ninety nine.
If I hire an electrician to do a house call the going rate is $60 trip charge.
If someone does it for $20 they are 1/3rd the going rate yet still more expensive than doing it myself.

… So why would you ever use the $20 electrician? In order for this analogy to work, you'd have to spend at least $1000 to figure out how to do the work yourself.

It seems to me that Amazon is judging it more cost effective to spend millions upon millions developing their own courier service, including the logistics involved in that (think about it - even Walmart isn't spending the insane amounts of money on this). Meaning that it appears to me that the USPS sweetheart deal isn't all that amazing after all. It appears it may even be a fairly negotiated rate which would lead to profits.

(FWIW, the USPS profits from its deal with Amazon - it's one of the most profitable sectors they have; package delivery in general is its most profitable)
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:09 PM   #19969
CU Tiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
… So why would you ever use the $20 electrician? In order for this analogy to work, you'd have to spend at least $1000 to figure out how to do the work yourself.

It seems to me that Amazon is judging it more cost effective to spend millions upon millions developing their own courier service, including the logistics involved in that (think about it - even Walmart isn't spending the insane amounts of money on this). Meaning that it appears to me that the USPS sweetheart deal isn't all that amazing after all. It appears it may even be a fairly negotiated rate which would lead to profits.

(FWIW, the USPS profits from its deal with Amazon - it's one of the most profitable sectors they have; package delivery in general is its most profitable)

I feeling like Im missing your point. You are too intelligent to not get it, which means Im probably being led to a trap. I guess. But Ill play along...

Because there isnt enough demand to fill up a dedicated delivery truck daily in every locale?

And waiting until there is a full load would cost customers.

In contrast the USPS already has a dedicated fleet going to, literally, every home in America daily.

And just because its profitable doesnt mean its most profitable. Where the USPS has drawn criticism is when their bid was 70% lower than 2nd place and they dont feel the need to raise the bid next year...they are leaving profit on the table to the benefit of Amazon and the detriment of their P&L.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
… So why would you ever use the $20 electrician?

To flesh out the analogy, because Im busy making $350/hour on an industrial job? So I need someone else to do it. Even at $60 Id still hire them. That they choose to do it at $20, when literally no one else in the market would makes them foolish.

Last edited by CU Tiger : 08-03-2020 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:13 PM   #19970
cuervo72
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I imagine Amazon builds their own fleet for much of the low-hanging (urban) fruit, while opting to use USPS for those hard-to-reach (rural) places. Once set up, it has to be cheaper for Amazon do it themselves in some cases. In others establishing the infrastructure is never going to be worth it.

I would also guess there would be some calculation for overflow/holiday/surge volume but no idea what that might entail.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:20 PM   #19971
stevew
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The one near me uses trucks and contractors in cars. The car routes almost always suck when I do one. Get taken out into the middle of nowhere with dirt roads, etc. sometimes you do end up in civilization, it just depends. Pay isn’t horrible. For me it just augments what I’ve already got going on. Most of the delivery packages are envelopes.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:26 PM   #19972
albionmoonlight
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There is a profit to be made in physically moving items and people in dense urban areas, and things like package delivery and train service would exist there through free market forces.

But it just cannot make economic sense to run trains and mail out to East Bumblefuck. Why would you ever invest in the infrastructure?

Which is why you have government subsidies and mandates to require those things. Amtrak has to run more than the Northeast corridor. The USPS has to deliver to more places than downtown NYC.

And that's a good thing, IMO. It is one of the things that the country can do for its citizens. Economically, it of course makes sense to stop subsidizing rural living. We should pretty much all be living in dense cities with just a few people out of them to grow food. And, if we let the free market have its way, that's what would naturally happen.

But not everything has to make $$ sense. There would be something intangible lost if we stopped propping up rural America. So I'm fine with things like the Post Office, etc. to help keep rural America afloat.

Not every single thing has to make sense, you know?
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:42 PM   #19973
ISiddiqui
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Originally Posted by CU Tiger View Post
Because there isnt enough demand to fill up a dedicated delivery truck daily in every locale?

And waiting until there is a full load would cost customers.

In contrast the USPS already has a dedicated fleet going to, literally, every home in America daily.

That is a reason why Amazon would contract with a last mile shipper (and that's generally going to be USPS regardless of who you have - UPS sometimes hands it off to USPS at the end). But why is that a reason Amazon would, after doing this deal, spend a ton of money to develop their own delivery fleet? It's because they see more money in spending million to create their own delivery system (it's not just trucks & cars, but the logistics behind it) than to continue on with USPS. Meaning, USPS is making enough money to convince Amazon they can save in the long run by bypassing them.

Quote:
And just because its profitable doesnt mean its most profitable. Where the USPS has drawn criticism is when their bid was 70% lower than 2nd place and they dont feel the need to raise the bid next year...they are leaving profit on the table to the benefit of Amazon and the detriment of their P&L.

Or rather because they realize that Amazon is building their delivery fleet and don't want to give them more impetus to go faster in that direction, considering it's one of the USPS's biggest money makers.

As if big sellers don't end up with better deals than small sellers because of the guaranteed amount of goods moved - I mean that's literally been Walmart's business model for years.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:54 PM   #19974
NobodyHere
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Masks have made more self-consciousness about what I eat for lunch while at work.
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Old 08-03-2020, 01:37 PM   #19975
thesloppy
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I'm in the middle of a relatively large city and I get Amazon deliveries probably around 50% from USPS and then 40% of Amazon drivers in vans/contractors and 10% from UPS/Fedex/OnCrac.

Amazon drivers/contractors consistently have problems with the buzzer/door, whereas FedEx & UPS are almost entirely worthless and have apparently started just dropping packages at random '(not so) nearby ditribution locations' without even attempting home delivery half the time.
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:02 PM   #19976
Atocep
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FYI if you're going to right turn on red you have to yield for U-Turn traffic.
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:31 PM   #19977
stevew
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FYI if you're going to right turn on red you have to yield for U-Turn traffic.

Driving is so fucking dangerous after the shutdown. Collectively people just forgot what they were doing. It doesn’t help that most of these pickup trucks are the size of m1 Abrams tanks now. Head on a super swivel at all times and don’t dare park near other cars now.
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:57 PM   #19978
RainMaker
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Does Fedex have the worst delivery drivers?
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:59 PM   #19979
spleen1015
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Can't think of the last video game I ever really finished. A game like GTA5 or God of War.

I think GTA:Vice City might be the last one I've actually finished. I'm not a finisher I guess.
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:13 PM   #19980
Ksyrup
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
 
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Heard a funny comment today - why the hell would someone drop an 's' in the word "lisp"?
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:20 PM   #19981
JonInMiddleGA
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Does Fedex have the worst delivery drivers?

Nah, I'd have to give that trophy to anybody that isn't FedEx/UPS/USPS.

The DHLs of the world et al.
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:30 PM   #19982
ISiddiqui
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Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Nah, I'd have to give that trophy to anybody that isn't FedEx/UPS/USPS.

The DHLs of the world et al.

Oh God, I think a horror movie like shudder just went up my spine at the mention of DHL. Lasership as well.
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:45 PM   #19983
stevew
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I watch a lot of Chopped and I don’t think I’ve ever seen the same episode twice. Like if it’s on the same night long enough they’ll repeat it, but just randomly turning it on, no. There must be infinity episodes out there.
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:55 PM   #19984
Atocep
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Our first major home project is "complete" as in the batting cage is usable. We still need to level it out and then clean up the area around it with some digging and landscaping, but we're claiming victory for now. I don't think it's going to be completely done until probably next summer.

This was a long time promise and turned into a much larger project than we anticipated. That area was a steep slop from the retaining wall that terraces our lawn and was largely useless and a pain in the ass to mow. We got it "finished" in 3 weekends.

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Old 08-05-2020, 12:13 AM   #19985
BishopMVP
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Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post
I imagine Amazon builds their own fleet for much of the low-hanging (urban) fruit, while opting to use USPS for those hard-to-reach (rural) places. Once set up, it has to be cheaper for Amazon do it themselves in some cases. In others establishing the infrastructure is never going to be worth it.

I would also guess there would be some calculation for overflow/holiday/surge volume but no idea what that might entail.
I think Bezos is also obsessed with monopolizing markets/paranoid other people will try & do it to him since it's how he views supply chains.

The delivery system is also sketchy - they are trying to set it up all as independent contractors instead of under Amazon. I don't know how much of this is tied to not wanting to pay health care/401k's etc to more people & how much is tied to them wanting to be able to scale up or down depending on time of year, but they're only investing long term in the vans not the whole business arm so far.
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Old 08-05-2020, 06:48 AM   #19986
CU Tiger
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Originally Posted by BishopMVP View Post
I think Bezos is also obsessed with monopolizing markets/paranoid other people will try & do it to him since it's how he views supply chains.

The delivery system is also sketchy - they are trying to set it up all as independent contractors instead of under Amazon. I don't know how much of this is tied to not wanting to pay health care/401k's etc to more people & how much is tied to them wanting to be able to scale up or down depending on time of year, but they're only investing long term in the vans not the whole business arm so far.

My FIL had a (very small) trucking and logistics company before retiring a few years ago. Due to some health concerns the wife and I get his mail and handle his past business affairs. Including several trade pub mags. I am always interested in any business I know nothing about. Anyway a popular article in these mags is how Amazon is avoiding DOT costs and insurance costs by their model. I havent spent the time to better understand their argument, but Ive probably read a dozen columns bemoaning the fact.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:41 AM   #19987
albionmoonlight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CU Tiger View Post
I am always interested in any business I know nothing about.

Then you will like this.

I did some legal work once in the airline industry and learned some history.

Back in the day, airlines developed Computer Reservation Systems on these big mainframes to handle reservations.

They eventually spun those CRSs off.

So, for a while, every reservation you made that was not directly through the airline (i.e. every travel agent, every booking through expedia.com, etc.) went through the CRSs, who took their cut.

The airlines decided that they did not like these third parties taking a cut of their profits. But they were all too tied into the system to leave. You couldn't just have every travel agent in the country unable to access Delta airlines.

So certain things came into being to get around these behind-the-scenes third parties that 99% of people didn't even know existed.

Southwest Airlines started late enough that it never got into that system. That is why you go to Southwest.com to book with them. They don't turn up in any search that goes through a CRS.

Orbitz also started as an airline-owned CRS alternative. From the user perspective, it looks the same as a CRS-driven online search engine. But, behind the scenes, it is running off a different database.

I did this work back in 2001, so my information is two decades old. I am sure that the relationship between airlines and CRSs and travel agents has evolved a lot since then.

But I was fascinated at the time to learn how much was driven by market players that I didn't even know existed.

(Just like the Amazon DOT tax thing you were talking about)
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:53 AM   #19988
JonInMiddleGA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post


Back in the day, airlines developed Computer Reservation Systems on these big mainframes to handle reservations.

They eventually spun those CRSs off.

A similar scenario occurred (kind of) with radio & tv advertising.

Once upon a time there were independent brokerages / buying services (various nomenclature) who served as a sort of clearing house. If I needed to buy 20 different TV markets but was short on time, I could reach out to one of those and they'd use their existing contacts to speed up the process. Everything was funneled through them in both directions, they took their cut as the money passed from me (through them) to the stations.

Fast forward through a couple decades and most of those ended up being bought by various combinations of the TV station ownership groups, often in partnership with their own competition (if everybody had similar skin in the game then they'd be less likely to start screwing each other over was the thinking).
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Old 08-05-2020, 08:09 AM   #19989
albionmoonlight
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Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
A similar scenario occurred (kind of) with radio & tv advertising.

Once upon a time there were independent brokerages / buying services (various nomenclature) who served as a sort of clearing house. If I needed to buy 20 different TV markets but was short on time, I could reach out to one of those and they'd use their existing contacts to speed up the process. Everything was funneled through them in both directions, they took their cut as the money passed from me (through them) to the stations.

Fast forward through a couple decades and most of those ended up being bought by various combinations of the TV station ownership groups, often in partnership with their own competition (if everybody had similar skin in the game then they'd be less likely to start screwing each other over was the thinking).

You go a little crazy trying to game these things out. Because you hear about the story of TV stations taking over for the buying services, it occurs to you that instead of Uber and Lyft taking a cut as middle men, that what you should have is the car owners and drivers in a city band together and make their own ride sharing app that they control and get 100% of the profit from.

Then you realize that you just invented Taxi companies, which is the very thing that Uber came in to replace.

Then you go have a drink because nothing makes sense anymore.
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Old 08-05-2020, 03:12 PM   #19990
ISiddiqui
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So working from home so much (with no end in sight) has led to accept that I'm going to need an office chair for my home. The Purple cushion on a dinner table chair has been ok, but I need something better... and then I go online and look at which are decent office chairs and the price just makes my eyes pop!

Anyone have any good suggestions or will have I have spend $300-$400 to buy a used good office chair?
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Old 08-05-2020, 03:49 PM   #19991
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The way I look at it, you will be spending 8+ hours per day in the chair, so the higher price is worth it for a quality one
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Old 08-05-2020, 03:50 PM   #19992
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I would buy a gaming chair. I've had one for more than 2 years and I never have issues from sitting in it all day long.
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Old 08-05-2020, 03:58 PM   #19993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
So working from home so much (with no end in sight) has led to accept that I'm going to need an office chair for my home. The Purple cushion on a dinner table chair has been ok, but I need something better... and then I go online and look at which are decent office chairs and the price just makes my eyes pop!

Anyone have any good suggestions or will have I have spend $300-$400 to buy a used good office chair?

We stalked Craigslist for a few weeks and found a good deal, but it took pretty much checking a lot and jumping when we found one.

It is a seller's market for used work from home equipment, that's for sure.
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Old 08-05-2020, 04:03 PM   #19994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
So working from home so much (with no end in sight) has led to accept that I'm going to need an office chair for my home. The Purple cushion on a dinner table chair has been ok, but I need something better... and then I go online and look at which are decent office chairs and the price just makes my eyes pop!

Anyone have any good suggestions or will have I have spend $300-$400 to buy a used good office chair?

Ive got this:
Haworth Very Task Chair Fully With Lumbar Support Mesh Back Aeron for sale online | eBay

Its 3 years old and has held up well enough and I work from home 2-3 days a week usually 10 hours a day in the damn thing.

And Im not a small dude...weight has fluctuated from 330-220 during that span and its held up well never had another chair last this long.
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Old 08-05-2020, 04:24 PM   #19995
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I almost forgot about eBay! Duh!

I have focused a little on the Steelcase Series 1, which is $415 new. Still kind of surprisingly high, but it seems on eBay some sellers for $300...

The main issue is with COVID, I don't feel all that comfortable about going to a store and plopping my butt into a chair to test it out.
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Old 08-05-2020, 04:58 PM   #19996
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What was so special about 11:50 ET on 4th October last year? 2852 members online at FOFC apparently according to the website
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Old 08-05-2020, 05:03 PM   #19997
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Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
What was so special about 11:50 ET on 4th October last year? 2852 members online at FOFC apparently according to the website

Seems like it was during the MLB (and NHL playoffs) last year.
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Old 08-05-2020, 05:36 PM   #19998
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FWIW, I have consistently hated how seemingly all office chairs are too short and I discovered that searching for 'drafting chairs' results in an entirely different (and better IMO) world of chairs.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:10 PM   #19999
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I hate that I can't go and test out new office chairs. I have to do it sight and butt unseen and unfelt. Yet I really should get a new one.

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Old 08-05-2020, 08:33 PM   #20000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
I almost forgot about eBay! Duh!

I have focused a little on the Steelcase Series 1, which is $415 new. Still kind of surprisingly high, but it seems on eBay some sellers for $300...

The main issue is with COVID, I don't feel all that comfortable about going to a store and plopping my butt into a chair to test it out.

Reason I mention them, an old neighbor worked for an office outfit company. They did cubicles and desks chairs etc.

That's who I got my chair from. But when doing a fit out, with say 250 Herman Millar or whatever there will be one or two bad ones, or warranty or whatever. Hed bring brand new ones home and make one from 2 or 3 and sell them for half new.
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