WW LXV-- Enter the CUBICLE (GAME OVER! See Post #1625 For Final Game Post)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Guess the same thing I would do if Farrah turned up a villager. Go back through the votes and see if I can pick anything out. I understand why you don't like my idea, since you are square in the middle of the Anti-fink people right now.

If someone shows me a sure wolf, I'll vote it. Right now all I see is speculation from everyone, so I'm much more fond of my speculation. I'm not right about everyone, I've adjusted my thoughts on a few people already, and maybe will as today continues.

All I have to work on today is there are a group of people who clearly were after Fink, a few people clearly who tried to save him (Farrah and Mr.W), and right now the two groups are colliding with two people in group A going after someone in group B. My thoughts today are as I said, and others have echoed.. to try to explore the other wolf side today based on what we know.

I just don't understand why you're more likely to believe that Farrah is a wolf if I'm a wolf. I mean, what does my allegiance have to do with Farrah's?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Alan T

My thought is to keep the wolf teams close so one of them doesn't hold a huge advantage over both the other team and us.

Farrah is on a short list already of people who tried to save Fink last night, but two things are very clear:


1) Farrah likely is not on the opposite team from Fink
2) The same people who killed fink are after Farrah.

So I am feeling pretty strongly that Farrah likely also is a wolf, but right now I think I'm more interested in trying to even up the sides so to speak if we can. That will help us learn more about both sides than continuing to weaken one side right now.

The more I think about it, the more I'm likely to switch over to one of the Farrah voters and if they turn up as a wolf, definitly come after Farrah tommorrow.

I'm on board with this logic. Best case:

1. Vote off path12 today and he's a wolf (Non-Fink)
2. Wolves vote off another wolf tonight (hopefully from the Non-Fink faction)
3. Vote Farrah off tomorrow from fink faction

At this point, we have voted off 2 wolves from Fink and two wolves from non-Fink. Then, we can analyze the data from days 1-4 and hopefully pin down the final wolves.

Now, let's look at the best case for voting off Farrah today:

1. Vote of Farrah (Fink wolf)
2. Non-Fink wolves vote off another Fink wolf
3. Take a stab at the non-Fink faction without another wolf group to help

Again, there is a chance that Path12 and/or Farrah are not wolves, but that's not a huge issue. If we vote path and he's not a wolf but Farrah is, that means I'm pretty close to 100% sure that Pass is a wolf. So, I think we get more info by voting off Path12 (even if he's a worker) than voting off Farrah if she is a wolf. Plus, we keep the wolves close to even for tonight which means yet another unknown wolf may be killed.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo.

Just remember, when one wolf team has all of the people and easily walk through us because we have no seer left that it wasn't my fault we lost.

I think there is evidence pointing to Farrah

And inevetably one wolf team will have more people on their team.

I think we are gonna get off track trying to alternate nailing wolves from the 2 groups.

Not to mention they could easily alternate their strategies to make this even harder on us.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I just don't understand why you're more likely to believe that Farrah is a wolf if I'm a wolf. I mean, what does my allegiance have to do with Farrah's?

When the same people are instrumental in removing wolves that are teammates, it kind of leads you to that conclusion.. Either way it can work both ways.. If Farrah is a wolf, I'll come after you next. If she is good, then I'll re-evaluate and see where I went wrong.

[Lathum]

Not to mantion if the wolves know we are gonna vote off Farrah tomorrow anyway they may just kill her tonight.

Thinking out loud a little here.

We DON'T lynch Farrah with the plan of killing her tomorrow. Instead we lynch someone who turns out to be a villager, they kill Farrah tonight then where do we go?

If We do lynch Farrah today and she is a wolf they may lynch another wolf tonigh which is great for us.

We lynch Farrah today and she is a villager, they lynch a wolf tonight.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Arles

I'm on board with this logic. Best case:

1. Vote off path12 today and he's a wolf (Non-Fink)
2. Wolves vote off another wolf tonight (hopefully from the Non-Fink faction)
3. Vote Farrah off tomorrow from fink faction

At this point, we have voted off 2 wolves from Fink and two wolves from non-Fink. Then, we can analyze the data from days 1-4 and hopefully pin down the final wolves.

Now, let's look at the best case for voting off Farrah today:

1. Vote of Farrah (Fink wolf)
2. Non-Fink wolves vote off another Fink wolf
3. Take a stab at the non-Fink faction without another wolf group to help

I'd revise that bottom part, the best case would be

1. Vote Farrah (Fink wolf)
2. Fink wolves vote off a non-fink wolf
3. We focus on the non-Finks (now with 2 lynch votes of data on them)

We're at the same 2-2 spot.

I guess the point I'm getting at is, we can't control their night actions, but we can learn a ton from the lynch votes. I'd rather have double the ammo pointing to one team (even if it means losing double on the other) than a tough-to-sort-out mix of votes on both factions.

I just worry that a 1 and 1 situation leads to double the confusion and half the clarity where as a 2 and 0 situation should give us a clear route to a majority of the faction that hasnt lost anyone.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not to mantion if the wolves know we are gonna vote off Farrah tomorrow anyway they may just kill her tonight.

Thinking out loud a little here.

We DON'T lynch Farrah with the plan of killing her tomorrow. Instead we lynch someone who turns out to be a villager, they kill Farrah tonight then where do we go?

If We do lynch Farrah today and she is a wolf they may lynch another wolf tonigh which is great for us.

We lynch Farrah today and she is a villager, they lynch a wolf tonight.

Why would an opposing wolf team look to try to help the other team out by killing the person that likely was being voted out anyways. Why wouldn't they try to kill someone who is hiding in the shadows instead?

[jeheinz72]

Unvote RendeR

Not sure I agree with this, I think he's the simplest step to the next action, but it doesn't look like he'll be in play today.

This leaves me deciding on the following routes to take

1. Voting Farrah along the lines of those that have
2. Voting Pass or Mau as some have suggested
3. Voting Lathum as he's got me completely confused as to his allegiences. In one post from him I'll get a wolf read and then the next two I'll get a good read. Of course Lathum always does this to me so I'm hardly surprised.
4. Voting path12 as Arlie has suggested (aka the Anti-Fink route)
5. Voting my earlier thought of the smaller subset of 5 people who tried to save RendeR (of which Farrah is a member and Mr.W is pinging the quiet-wolf-radar)

I'm undecided as of now. I suppose I'm leaning towards #1 or #2.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Why would an opposing wolf team look to try to help the other team out by killing the person that likely was being voted out anyways. Why wouldn't they try to kill someone who is hiding in the shadows instead?

Because we have no idea how the wolves kills work.

I would be shoked if the wolves didn't kill another wolf tonight since it can only happen every 3 nights.

Since they know Farrah is a wolf and we are gonna lynch her tomorrow anyway why not just have her be the wolf they kill?

[Lathum]

I can't stress enough that I think it is a huge mistake to try and balance out the wolf teams.we have zero knowledge of the wolf dynamics and at some point one wolf team will have an advantage over the other.

We need to kill all the wolves to win. Thats the bottom line.

[Arles]

I think that we should vote Farrah off either today or tomorrow - just too much evidence against her with the Cronin vote. My point is that keeping the teams equal tonight for the Wolf-Wolf vote increases the chance someone from the "Non-Fink" Faction gets voted off. That helps us a lot more than having the Fink faction decimated in 24 hours leaving us to start guessing without extra data.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I just don't understand why you're more likely to believe that Farrah is a wolf if I'm a wolf. I mean, what does my allegiance have to do with Farrah's?

I'll be honest, I was thinking more path12, mau and potentially Lathum before your Farrah vote today. But, now we have these pieces of data:

1. At 7:13 PM, you argue with Mau about voting for Fink:

Is there some kind of argument that's tempted you? I don't even think finkster has shown up since you said that's what would cause you to switch.

2. RendeR was up 7-6 and on the way to be voted out at 7:55 PM. Then, you do exactly what you questioned Fink on:

I can't help but agree.

UNVOTE RENDER
VOTE FINKENST

3. Your vote made it 7-7 with 5 minutes left. Mau asked if you wanted to switch back to break the tie - and you said no.

4. Now, we think Farrah's part of Fink's wolf faction (more than 50% chance) and your first post of the day starts another run with Mau on Farrah.

I'm still not sure about Mau as he seems to be worrying about some of your choices, but you look more "wolf-like" than you did yesterday morning.

I still like my vote on path12 as he also has the Barkeep vote which is interesting to me, but you are no. 2-3 on my wolf list with path and farrah.

[Lathum]

Arles- I noticed you have made a few references in your posts that you think people aren't on the same side bacause they argued with each other or voted for each other.

It is a common wolf behavior to argue with members of their own team early on to create a perceived division

I just wanted to give you a heads up about that

[mauchow]

If I was really a wolf, I'd have dug myself a nice hole already. Anyways, Arlie is going to be a mad man in future WW games. This is a full time job for him!

[Passacaglia]

Arlie, to respond to that a little. I was pressing mauboy on that point because earlier, I asked him what would make him switch to someone else. And he said something like "an actual argument" -- I just thought it was weird that despite there having been no argument, he was tempted to switch to fink anyway.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Unvote RendeR

3. Voting Lathum as he's got me completely confused as to his allegiences. In one post from him I'll get a wolf read and then the next two I'll get a good read. Of course Lathum always does this to me so I'm hardly surprised.

He has been acting "fishy" the entire time. Who is to say that he isn't a waffler? You are exactly correct when you say you are confused as to his allegiances because he doesn't want to come across too harsh on either end.

The potential reasons?

He was a wolf from the start and is trying to hide it. Or he is The Fish (as stated in the rules) who started out as a villager but got converted...which would explain him voting for fink. He is apart of non-fink group of wolves.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Arlie, to respond to that a little. I was pressing mauboy on that point because earlier, I asked him what would make him switch to someone else. And he said something like "an actual argument" -- I just thought it was weird that despite there having been no argument, he was tempted to switch to fink anyway.

I used the wrong word at that point. I was hoping for some actual defenses from the two of them, which in the end would create some sort of small argument, I would imagine.

I might just stfu for the rest of the game so I don't ruin it for the good guys.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Alan T

*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo.

Just remember, when one wolf team has all of the people and easily walk through us because we have no seer left that it wasn't my fault we lost.

Unvote Jeheinz
Vote Farrah

so your saying your not a villegar? soudns like a freudian slip

unvote latham
vote alan t

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by bsak16

He has been acting "fishy" the entire time. Who is to say that he isn't a waffler? You are exactly correct when you say you are confused as to his allegiances because he doesn't want to come across too harsh on either end.

The potential reasons?

He was a wolf from the start and is trying to hide it. Or he is The Fish (as stated in the rules) who started out as a villager but got converted...which would explain him voting for fink. He is apart of non-fink group of wolves.

lol, I am truly going to be happy when your crusade against me is proven all for naught.

But please keep it up, it is highley entertaining!!

[Dr. Sak]

No crusade....just stating and pointing out info that myself and others bring up. And on that note...

Vote LATHUM

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

so your saying your not a villegar? soudns like a freudian slip

unvote latham
vote alan t

Take some time to reread and less time jumping on things because of your own lack of comprehension. Or are you on Farrah's side and came to defend her? It is really clear in my post that I referred to myself as a villager, and am amazed at how much more information other villagers seem to get compared to what little I have to work on..

But go ahead, respond to my vote on your fellow wolf with attempts at picking apart my grammar... At least I spell Villager correctly

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Take some time to reread and less time jumping on things because of your own lack of comprehension. Or are you on Farrah's side and came to defend her? It is really clear in my post that I referred to myself as a villager, and am amazed at how much more information other villagers seem to get compared to what little I have to work on..

But go ahead, respond to my vote on your fellow wolf with attempts at picking apart my grammar... At least I spell Villager correctly

claphamsa = Lathum's alt?

[oliegirl]

Hey everyone...finally got caught up on everything. First off, I was a tiny bit intoxicated last night, which explains the "woo hoo" that had some people upset...sorry about that. I was bummed we lost the gossip, but was clearly a little too happy about getting a wolf.

A lot of theories out there right now...I'm here til about 4:30 or 5 and then will be out for a while, haircuts, errands, and dinner, so I can't guarantee I'll be back before deadline, so I'll have my vote in by the time I leave.

Again, sorry about last night...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

claphamsa = Lathum's alt?

I was close to making a comment along those lines out of jest..

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Take some time to reread and less time jumping on things because of your own lack of comprehension. Or are you on Farrah's side and came to defend her? It is really clear in my post that I referred to myself as a villager, and am amazed at how much more information other villagers seem to get compared to what little I have to work on..

But go ahead, respond to my vote on your fellow wolf with attempts at picking apart my grammar... At least I spell Villager correctly

yeah, I just noticed you arent the one with villegar in their sig still funny tho! and I re read it, still looks fishy to me!

[The Jackal]

I just got up and caught up. I'm tempted to vote with heinze at this point, because my line of thinking has been similar to his and we did nail a wolf because of it. Of course, he could end up being a wolf and I'll get burned, but for now I'm leaning towards path.

[The Jackal]

Whoops, I screwed up and forgot it was Arles talking about path. I don't actually know if I want to go after Render (as heinze did). It seems unlikely he is a wolf as well, but if he is, damn did we get on the right track early. No vote from me quite yet.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I'm not voting RendeR right now Jackal.

My contenders are Pass, Mau or Farrah. Probably ranked as Farrah, Pass, Mau.

[jeheinz72]

Well, my quick count has Farrah at 3 and path and lathum at 1 vote (could be missing some stuff). I'm going to push the issue a touch and

Vote Mauboy

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well, my quick count has Farrah at 3 and path and lathum at 1 vote (could be missing some stuff). I'm going to push the issue a touch and

Vote Mauboy

Why pass? I understand about Farrah and Mau.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo.

Just remember, when one wolf team has all of the people and easily walk through us because we have no seer left that it wasn't my fault we lost.

But weren't you the person who said earlier that it was likely that Farrah and Fink were on opposite sides? (can't remember the exact post right now). So voting for her would even the factions out, no?

[path12]

Dola, oops, never mind. I saw from someone quoting you that you said they were likely on the same side.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, I think we get more info by voting off Path12 (even if he's a worker) than voting off Farrah if she is a wolf.

We've already lost the observer and the gossip. Would you want to risk losing another worker who might (or might not) have a role? I'd rather hit a wolf no matter which way we go.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well, my quick count has Farrah at 3 and path and lathum at 1 vote (could be missing some stuff). I'm going to push the issue a touch and

Vote Mauboy

How does it push the issue a touch by adding a 4th candidate to the mix?

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Why pass? I understand about Farrah and Mau.

How do you single Mau out when he just copied everything that pass has done?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

We've already lost the observer and the gossip. Would you want to risk losing another worker who might (or might not) have a role? I'd rather hit a wolf no matter which way we go.

I agree fully. So far I haven't heard any sure evidence from anyone of a sure wolf. All I've heard is people pushing their agendas. So far not one person has come up with any bit of "evidence" that seems that great.

I think either way if we kill another person on Fink's team (as it appears we may if Farrah ends up being a wolf, since I highly doubt she would have been opposing teams), it should tell us alot on who the wolves are by who voted for both her and Fink.

If Farrah ends up a wolf, I'm already on Passacaglia until the game is over or he is voted out.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How does it push the issue a touch by adding a 4th candidate to the mix?



How do you single Mau out when he just copied everything that pass has done?

How do you single me out? Today he voted after me, but yesterday, I voted after him.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

How do you single me out? Today he voted after me, but yesterday, I voted after him.

You've been amazingly ultra defensive anytime you've been questioned so far which is something others do, but you don't when you are good. I've said all along that both you and mau seem to be joined at the hip, and after this morning when he backed down and admitted it looked bad, you seem to throw out spit and vinegar. I found it odd that one of my other targets seemed happy to jump on mauboy but didn't understand what people had against pass.. That seems like a new player mistake to me.

[Lathum]

There is only enough room for one person around here thar spelles villager wrong.

VOTE CLAP

[RendeR]

I honestly don't see a really valid target out there at this point, however, Lathum, as ha been pointed out by numerous people, has been acting rather strange this game, sometimes his normal"make an argument for the sake of arguing" self and sometimes turning on his head and agreeing with someone.

I guess what it really comes down to is when all else Fails to provide strong evidence, some players are always good choices for elimination. Lathum is one of those players because he is both and excellent player no matter his role and he is a constant point of contention which is generally best eliminated before it destroys us all.

VOTE LATHUM

[Lathum]

unvote clap


just kidding around

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You've been amazingly ultra defensive anytime you've been questioned so far which is something others do, but you don't when you are good. I've said all along that both you and mau seem to be joined at the hip, and after this morning when he backed down and admitted it looked bad, you seem to throw out spit and vinegar. I found it odd that one of my other targets seemed happy to jump on mauboy but didn't understand what people had against pass.. That seems like a new player mistake to me.

Amazingly ultra defensive? I really don't see that. In fact, I'm not even sure I've been questioned. People have thrown some suspicion my way, but I'm not sure I've really been asked anything.

[Lathum]

aw shucks Render

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How do you single Mau out when he just copied everything that pass has done?

Sorry, I just meant that I know why heinze is voting for Mau, not that I was going to vote for him.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

aw shucks Render

Anytime man, and hey, when you get shitcanned can I have your stapler?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How does it push the issue a touch by adding a 4th candidate to the mix?



How do you single Mau out when he just copied everything that pass has done?

Well I really only consider Farrah as the candidate now. I don't follow the path reasoning Arlie laid out and the Lathum thing just has my head spinning.

SOmeone, I admiteddly forget who, posed the Pass/Mau link and course I choose Mau. He seems like he's tailing Pass a bit more and is copying him then saying "I won't be back until way later" then posts shortly thereafter. Just odd behavior. And since I can't vote for both, I have to inherently single out one, right? Unless you'll let me have two votes.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Why pass? I understand about Farrah and Mau.

Why was I considering him you mean?

[Passacaglia]

Okay, I did a little digging and found the game I was talking about where cronin was the seer. It's the Willy Wonka game, on Page 2 of this forum. I'd suggest people read it to see how cronin handles playing the seer. He's pretty low-key about it, not wanting to admit he's the seer, or try too hard to argue his point. He scanned saldana Night 1, and didn't reveal until Day 3. He put in his vote first thing in the morning both Day 2 and Day 3, and gave some reasoning, but didn't press too hard. I think he wanted to get some information on who would save saldana.

This is exactly what he did in this game. He put in a vote for Farrah right away, but unfortunately, it was pretty much ignored. We didn't get much information on who made moves to save her -- until today. I'm definitely look at Arles tomorrow, if Farrah turns up as a wolf.

I'd really encourage people to check out that Willy Wonka game to see what I'm talking about.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well I really only consider Farrah as the candidate now. I don't follow the path reasoning Arlie laid out and the Lathum thing just has my head spinning.

SOmeone, I admiteddly forget who, posed the Pass/Mau link and course I choose Mau. He seems like he's tailing Pass a bit more and is copying him then saying "I won't be back until way later" then posts shortly thereafter. Just odd behavior. And since I can't vote for both, I have to inherently single out one, right? Unless you'll let me have two votes.

That still doesn't explain how you are "pushing the issue" with the vote. It just spread it out more.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Okay, I did a little digging and found the game I was talking about where cronin was the seer. It's the Willy Wonka game, on Page 2 of this forum. I'd suggest people read it to see how cronin handles playing the seer. He's pretty low-key about it, not wanting to admit he's the seer, or try too hard to argue his point. He scanned saldana Night 1, and didn't reveal until Day 3. He put in his vote first thing in the morning both Day 2 and Day 3, and gave some reasoning, but didn't press too hard. I think he wanted to get some information on who would save saldana.

This is exactly what he did in this game. He put in a vote for Farrah right away, but unfortunately, it was pretty much ignored. We didn't get much information on who made moves to save her -- until today. I'm definitely look at Arles tomorrow, if Farrah turns up as a wolf.

I'd really encourage people to check out that Willy Wonka game to see what I'm talking about.

Arles revealed as the fool.. without anyone contradicting him... unless you are making the claim that he is not the fool because you are. If Farrah turns up a wolf, you're in my targets tommorrow if she was the same team as fink. If she is the opposite team from Fink, then you'll gain more trust with me.

[claphamsa]

we had a vote count recently?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

we had a vote count recently?

Last I saw it was Farrah with 3 votes, Lathum I think had 2, and several others had 1 votes each.

I could be wrong so doublecheck if you want!