Race and Roleplaying Games

[Antmeister]

Ok...maybe I just don't understand this, but I don't know why a number of roleplaying games don't allow you to choose from a number of real human races. Don't get me wrong, the games that are tied to novels, I can understand, but this is getting ridiculous.

Especially when it concerns MMORPGs. I am always disenchanted when it comes to creating a character and I can't create someone that I can identify with. I just downloaded Knight Online and was disappointed with what I could choose for a freakin fantasy character. And in a number of other MMORPGs and standalones, you are limited to maybe one or two avatars to represent you.

Usually I could just ignore it after the initial frustration, but when the wife and I play a RPG, we always have trouble finding a character to represent us. She is Hispanic and I am Black.

I know games are taking this into account, but this is getting to be a slow climb. I see this in action and sci-fi games as well. It's like the minorities disappeared from the face of the Earth in the future.

[Desnudo]

I can't speak for this generation of MMPORGS, but I remember being able to customize race in Asheron's Call.

[Buccaneer]

And that is why I don't play nearly any RPG/Adventure games, online or not and the reason why I love Gothic so much. I have never been into sci-fi or fantasy so the thought of having all these aliens-type characters, to play or to interact with, is a big turn off. I do, however, love to be in a realistic Medieval-type world, thus my interest in looking at these games. In Gothic, all of the NPC that one interacts with are humans - except for a couple Orcs.

[Dutch]

I wonder if CRPG developers would get in PC trouble if they offered white/black/asian/hispanic races as options.

I agree it seems logical to have all those choices for us, the gameplayer if we do so choose.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I wonder if CRPG developers would get in PC trouble if they offered white/black/asian/hispanic races as options.

I agree it seems logical to have all those choices for us, the gameplayer if we do so choose.

I'm not sure if PC has anything to do with it. If they are offering a variety of graphical faces for you to choose from, I don't see what is so un-PC about that.

If anything, it is less PC not to offer anything more than a generic white guy face...

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

I'm not sure if PC has anything to do with it. If they are offering a variety of graphical faces for you to choose from, I don't see what is so un-PC about that.

If anything, it is less PC not to offer anything more than a generic white guy face...

Good point.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

And that is why I don't play nearly any RPG/Adventure games, online or not and the reason why I love Gothic so much. I have never been into sci-fi or fantasy so the thought of having all these aliens-type characters, to play or to interact with, is a big turn off. I do, however, love to be in a realistic Medieval-type world, thus my interest in looking at these games. In Gothic, all of the NPC that one interacts with are humans - except for a couple Orcs.

I know and that's sad. Just for the simple fact that the game will attract more people should be a heck of a reason to do so. And I never played Gothic, so that is nice. The way I was able to get over my frustration was to just act as if I were playing a character from a novel.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I can't speak for this generation of MMPORGS, but I remember being able to customize race in Asheron's Call.

And I never played Asheron's Call as well, but that is only because of the bad experience I had heard from others.

[Eaglesfan27]

KOTOR offers multiple races for the main character.

[LionsFan10]

I'm hispanic as well and it's just something that I learned to deal with. EverQuest had "black people" but they were their own seperate "race" all together, the "Erudites". That bothered me a little bit because what if I wanted to be a "Human" colored man?

Ah well, whatever apparently in fantasy land there aren't very many colored human's, just white.

[Ragone]

Wow allows skin tints that can accurately represent black/hispanic

[Antmeister]

Star Wars and Star Trek based games are games I never really had a problem with. They seem to be pretty universal. I just get frustrated with a game in which they may have different races, but the classes are divided among them. For example, when I played Dark Age of Camelot, I could remember selecting a race for Albion. However because I selected this race (which resembled a black character), I was penalized for being certain classes that I wanted to play (Wizard or Sorcerer). So I was stuck with playing with a Mercenary since it was the next coolest character.

For someone of European decent, you could pick a character from Albion, Hibernia and Midgard which gave you a wider array of classes to choose from.

My wife on the other hand, just had to choose a character that could barely pass for having any sort of HIspanic traits.

While I understand that some of the worlds are based on mythology, it doesn't mean that other races didn't exist in that mythological time. Geez.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by LionsFan10

I'm hispanic as well and it's just something that I learned to deal with. EverQuest had "black people" but they were their own seperate "race" all together, the "Erudites". That bothered me a little bit because what if I wanted to be a "Human" colored man?

Ah well, whatever apparently in fantasy land there aren't very many colored human's, just white.

Oh yeah, Everquest was the first MMORPG that I played. And I did play an Erudite and I thought the same thing. Why can't I be a freakin human? My wife ended up playing some kind of tree elf (I can't recall what the official name was since we played Everquest when it first came out).

[Celeval]

NWN and Morrowind both allowed customization of look - NWN allowed the same colors for skin tone as hair tone. Which allowed some pretty freaky characters, if you ask me.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Celeval

NWN and Morrowind both allowed customization of look - NWN allowed the same colors for skin tone as hair tone. Which allowed some pretty freaky characters, if you ask me.

I own both and you are correct. I am really fond of NWN, the only negative I have is the selection of avatars (I believe I can only choose 2 that look Black). But yeah the 3d character can really be customized in NWN. Morrowind is one I never had a problem with. In fact, any game made by Bethseda is a joy. I ever remember playing Daggerfall back in the day. The only exception is Pirates of the Caribbean and not because of race, but because it was a poorly designed game.

Hell, they even had a whole game designed around a race called Red Guard.

It seems the only genre that does a good job of allowing a person to completely create a character is the sports genre and understandibly. I was amazed with what you could do with the recent edition of Tiger Woods Golf. I actually made a character that resembles me. With my slight overbite and small ears as well.

[Abe Sargent]

UO allows you to pick your exact skin pigmentation and hair color.

-Anxiety

[Blackadar]

Not sure there's this "big" problem out there. Even U7 allowed you to have a black avatar.

[jamesUMD]

There are tons of NWN avatar's that you can download directly into the game that could accurately depict players of different races for the Avatar. Try a Google search for:
Never Winter Nights+portraits and should be able to get a bunch. I had probably 300 on my last cpu before the "Great Crash of 2004"

[Thomkal]

City of Heroes also allows for any human (and non-human) skin color you could ever want to have. Plus they have different faces, and in the most recent update to the game, you can now "reshape" your face in about five different ways.

[Antmeister]

While most of these responses are pretty good, I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't want to be limited to a few classes due to a character's race. I hadn't played any online game since DAOC since I started school a few years ago. My wife's last game was Final Fantasy and talk about limitations. This was only a 4 months ago. My first frustration would come if I couldn't even pick my race like this game I just downloaded called Knight Online and you also see this in Shot Online. My second frustration comes if the race I choose is limited in classes like the Erudites in Everquest and the only dark skinned characters in the land of Albion (can't remember the name of the race).

I am glad someone mentioned UO, because that was a game that did so and I played that game half a year after it first came out. I am also glad someone mentioned that I could select other avatars. That didn't necesarily bother me all that much as the previous paragraph, I just wanted the ability to have more options. My wife is usually more screwed than I am when it comes to these game.

And in the world of standalones, I still see that problem. Especially to the sci-fi and fantasy themed games.

It seems that the ones that interest me right now are City of Heroes and Gothic. It is just my opionion that there should never be limited options when it comes to MMORPGs, so I must admit I have missed a few games, but that is because my last game was DAOC.

[Blackadar]

I'm not trying to belittle your comments, but I'm not in agreement with you. Where's the asian options? Where are the Eurpoean options on an asian console RPG/ Where are the indian (native american or Indian) options? How about hispanic? Why can't I choose a balding, fat, 3-foot high avatar? Why is it that my avatar doesn't have a name like Harvey Goldblatt?

Why? Because there's only so much money/time to make a game and game avatars need to appeal to the largest group likely to purchase the game. So for the USA and Europe, that's a caucasian;on a console game developed in Japan, that's an asian.

What's interesting is that even when skin color can be selected on a MMORPG, there are so few non-whites it's stunning. When I was on WoW, I saw only one black human player. One. In 150+ levels and weeks of playtime, I saw one. So even when there's an option, it's rarely used.

So all in all, it would be nice for the option. But it should be pretty far down on the priority list for game developers. And I'm not sure what selecting an avatar - based solely on race - in a virtual game says about the person choosing said avatar.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just an a (kinda, maybe) interesting aside.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/technolo...D06-165564.htm
(with highlight of portion relative to this discussion)
Video game market study shows diversity in players

New report suggests the media is no longer dominated by young-male demographic.
By John Gaudiosi / Hollywood Reporter

Stereotypes about the video game audience have been disproved many times, but a new Benchmark report from Nielsen Entertainment's Interactive Group reveals previously unseen trends.

The 80-page report paints a detailed picture of who is playing games today. Overall, the average age of a gamer is 30, but new gamers are entering the space at a younger age, and gamers who have grown up with games continue to play as they get older. In fact, nearly one-quarter of all gamers today are older than age 40.

Breaking that down, NEI found that 39 percent of gamers are female. Nearly one-quarter of female gamers are ages 13-17, with nearly 20 percent of female gamers ages 25-34 and an additional 19 percent ranging from 35-44. The same amount of female gamers -- 13 percent -- were ages 18-24 as were 50 and older. And 9 percent of women gamers were ages 45-49.

NEI also explored the racial breakdown of gaming with the report, which found that about 72 percent of gamers are white, a little more than 10 percent are Hispanic and a little fewer than 10 percent are black.

"It is clear from the results of this study that video game publishers have missed opportunities by not focusing on underserved consumer segments," says Michael Dowling, Nielsen Interactive Entertainment general manager. "African-American and Hispanic gamers show notably high levels of usage and purchase behavior, while female gamers are beginning to make themselves known in what has typically been a male-dominated form of entertainment."

The report is a first for the interactive entertainment space, a medium that has flourished among the young-male demographic and has until today been guided more by instinct and technology than empirical data. NEI plans to field its next study in August, with results available in September.

Among its many findings, the report noted that active gamers typically spend about 5.2 hours per week playing by themselves, with a large proportion also being spent playing socially (3.07 hours per week with friends and family or online). Among females, the split between solo and social gameplay is even more equitable, with younger females ages 13-17 tending to play more with friends or family (54 percent of the time) and women 25-34 playing almost as much socially as alone.

Males and females 45 and older are markedly different, spending almost all of their time (79 percent) playing alone.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I'm not trying to belittle your comments, but I'm not in agreement with you. Where's the asian options? Where are the Eurpoean options on an asian console RPG/ Where are the indian (native american or Indian) options? How about hispanic? Why can't I choose a balding, fat, 3-foot high avatar? Why is it that my avatar doesn't have a name like Harvey Goldblatt?

Why? Because there's only so much money/time to make a game and game avatars need to appeal to the largest group likely to purchase the game. So for the USA and Europe, that's a caucasian;on a console game developed in Japan, that's an asian.

What's interesting is that even when skin color can be selected on a MMORPG, there are so few non-whites it's stunning. When I was on WoW, I saw only one black human player. One. In 150+ levels and weeks of playtime, I saw one. So even when there's an option, it's rarely used.

So all in all, it would be nice for the option. But it should be pretty far down on the priority list for game developers. And I'm not sure what selecting an avatar - based solely on race - in a virtual game says about the person choosing said avatar.

First of all, it is quite simple to implement one's race in a game. It a hell of a lot easier than a lot of useless options that some games implement. And my point about avatars is a matter of choosing one that looks like your 3D counterpart (I am mostly talking about the standalone games since you see it a majority of the time, but there are some MMORPGs that fit into this category).

I don't think it is odd for someone to choose a race that closely resembles themselves. I guess I may be someone who plays these games a little different. I usually like to create characters that have some characteristics of myself. In the world of MMORPGs, avatars aren't usually that important since the 3D character is viewed most of the time, at least in most of the popular ones. In a number of standalones, avatars are usually more predominant.

That is why I believe there should be more time for avatars or at least an ability to customize one, instead of choosing from a list. An avatar creation screen would be a great idea for someone to make for a lot of standalones. And like I said before, my wife is usually more screwed than I am. So what is wrong if she wants to create a Hispanic woman as a representative of herself. So what exactly does that say about me? Since the days of paper, pencil and dice, there are people who create characters injected with their own personality and there are others who just want to play a character that is unlike themselves. I just happen to be in the former.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Just an a (kinda, maybe) interesting aside.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/technolo...D06-165564.htm
(with highlight of portion relative to this discussion)
Video game market study shows diversity in players

New report suggests the media is no longer dominated by young-male demographic.
By John Gaudiosi / Hollywood Reporter

Stereotypes about the video game audience have been disproved many times, but a new Benchmark report from Nielsen Entertainment's Interactive Group reveals previously unseen trends.

The 80-page report paints a detailed picture of who is playing games today. Overall, the average age of a gamer is 30, but new gamers are entering the space at a younger age, and gamers who have grown up with games continue to play as they get older. In fact, nearly one-quarter of all gamers today are older than age 40.

Breaking that down, NEI found that 39 percent of gamers are female. Nearly one-quarter of female gamers are ages 13-17, with nearly 20 percent of female gamers ages 25-34 and an additional 19 percent ranging from 35-44. The same amount of female gamers -- 13 percent -- were ages 18-24 as were 50 and older. And 9 percent of women gamers were ages 45-49.

NEI also explored the racial breakdown of gaming with the report, which found that about 72 percent of gamers are white, a little more than 10 percent are Hispanic and a little fewer than 10 percent are black.

"It is clear from the results of this study that video game publishers have missed opportunities by not focusing on underserved consumer segments," says Michael Dowling, Nielsen Interactive Entertainment general manager. "African-American and Hispanic gamers show notably high levels of usage and purchase behavior, while female gamers are beginning to make themselves known in what has typically been a male-dominated form of entertainment."

The report is a first for the interactive entertainment space, a medium that has flourished among the young-male demographic and has until today been guided more by instinct and technology than empirical data. NEI plans to field its next study in August, with results available in September.

Among its many findings, the report noted that active gamers typically spend about 5.2 hours per week playing by themselves, with a large proportion also being spent playing socially (3.07 hours per week with friends and family or online). Among females, the split between solo and social gameplay is even more equitable, with younger females ages 13-17 tending to play more with friends or family (54 percent of the time) and women 25-34 playing almost as much socially as alone.

Males and females 45 and older are markedly different, spending almost all of their time (79 percent) playing alone.

That was a very interesting article, by the way. I am about to hit 34, so I am pretty much in that average age.