Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Main Forums > Off Topic
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-29-2022, 10:21 PM   #301
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
I don't know how this will turn but I would be a little skeptical of why the Spurs were willing to move on from a 25 year old player like that.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2022, 10:22 PM   #302
JPhillips
General Manager
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
He's the kind of player that's poison for a team in the Spurs' position. He isn't good enough to lead them to much success, but he's good enough to keep them out of the running for drafting a star player.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers
JPhillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 11:57 AM   #303
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
Murray cannot receive a max level contract extension due to current CBA rules. The Spurs were running the risk of him leaving for nothing in 2 years. Or having to pony up 50Million a season to keep him.
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 12:30 PM   #304
Atocep
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
I'm very skepital that Trey Young and Murray are a good pairing.
Atocep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:03 PM   #305
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atocep View Post
I'm very skepital that Trey Young and Murray are a good pairing.

Eh, for as skeptical of Young as I am, I think this actually makes sense IF there are enough basketballs to go around. He certainly makes the defense better in the backcourt

Thing I question more is whether going into luxury tax (which I've seen will be the case) with this Hawks team makes much sense. They're more than 1 player away
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:09 PM   #306
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
Woj bomb KD trade possible?
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:16 PM   #307
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevew View Post
Woj bomb KD trade possible?

Okay, NOW I may not like the Murray trade as much (local media speculation a few days back had been about "half the Hawks roster + picks for Durant")
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:17 PM   #308
jbergey22
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevew View Post
Woj bomb KD trade possible?

Probably trying to go back to the Warriors. He knows he can't lead a championship team.

Last edited by jbergey22 : 06-30-2022 at 02:18 PM.
jbergey22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:22 PM   #309
Atocep
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbergey22 View Post
Probably trying to go back to the Warriors. He knows he can't lead a championship team.

Kd in Phoenix would be really interesting if they can pull it off.
Atocep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:35 PM   #310
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Okay, NOW I may not like the Murray trade as much (local media speculation a few days back had been about "half the Hawks roster + picks for Durant")

Yeah, there are a bunch of teams probably wishing they had held on to some assets.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:41 PM   #311
miami_fan
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
KD does not have a no trade clause so everything is on the table. Miami and Phoenix are reportedly on his wishlist and according to the trade machine, Butler and Booker trades straight up for KD satisfies the CBA.
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946
miami_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:45 PM   #312
albionmoonlight
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
I have no idea what Durant's legacy will be.
albionmoonlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 02:50 PM   #313
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
I wish KD would get buzzed and start telling Kyrie stories.
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 03:46 PM   #314
albionmoonlight
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
As a mild Pels fan, I like this team. I don't want them to give up what they'd have to give up to get 33 yr. old Durant.
albionmoonlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 03:51 PM   #315
BishopMVP
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
Quote:
Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
As a mild Pels fan, I like this team. I don't want them to give up what they'd have to give up to get 33 yr. old Durant.
Zion + a couple picks and pick swaps? Keeps the whole team that just had that late season run together, KD's definitely better than Zion at this point.
BishopMVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 03:54 PM   #316
albionmoonlight
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopMVP View Post
Zion + a couple picks and pick swaps? Keeps the whole team that just had that late season run together, KD's definitely better than Zion at this point.

I could do that. I just think that it will be more than that. Zion + BI + someone else + picks.
albionmoonlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 03:56 PM   #317
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Durant is going to be 34 next season and that move doesn't make them a contender. I'd rather just keep Zion and build around the 21 year old with immense potential.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 05:14 PM   #318
Arles
Grey Dog Software
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL
If it's Phoenix, word is the Nets don't want Ayton. So maybe Phoenix moves Ayton to get a few picks and a player then moves Mikhail Bridges, Cam Johnson, another player and a bunch of firsts from Phoenix/Ayton team.
__________________
Developer of Bowl Bound College Football
http://www.greydogsoftware.com
Arles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 05:18 PM   #319
Arles
Grey Dog Software
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL
What is the best offer the Nets are going to get? It seems like they want multiple firsts.
They can't trade for Booker, Bam, Tatum or other 5-year Max guys because they traded for Simmons. (NBA rule that you can only trade for one max-salary guy from his original team).

I would think Boston, but do they want to move Brown and picks for Durant?
Miami would just be Hero, filler and picks
Memphis is interesting, but I'm not sure their package would beat what the Suns could do (assuming Ja isn't in it). Plus, do teams like New Orleans and Memphis want to trade all their assets for Durant?
__________________
Developer of Bowl Bound College Football
http://www.greydogsoftware.com

Last edited by Arles : 06-30-2022 at 05:25 PM.
Arles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 08:19 AM   #320
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
The thought of paying Karl Anthony Towns about 75million for each of his playoff wins is kinda scary. The Wolves team is only going to be as good as Edwards ends up taking them.
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 09:23 AM   #321
miami_fan
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
With Zion preparing to sign his max extension, who is the next guy we are going to try and convince ourselves that he will turn down the rookie extension contract?
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946
miami_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 10:49 AM   #322
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
Quote:
Originally Posted by miami_fan View Post
With Zion preparing to sign his max extension, who is the next guy we are going to try and convince ourselves that he will turn down the rookie extension contract?

I can't see how Chet Holmgren is going to want to make a long term commitment to Oklahoma City?
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 10:55 AM   #323
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
Zach Lavine and picks and possibly players for Durant seems like a solid return for Brooklyn. I'm not sure if a sign and trade for the Nets would be legal though, and the Bulls would have to waive protection on the 2023 pick they owe the magic and would have to waive protection on the 2025 pick they owe the spurs and then could trade 2027 and 2029 unprotected picks. Maybe that's legal?
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 12:51 PM   #324
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
I don't think they can trade Lavine now. Seems like he wants to stay in Chicago and signed a deal already.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 12:57 PM   #325
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arles View Post
What is the best offer the Nets are going to get? It seems like they want multiple firsts.
They can't trade for Booker, Bam, Tatum or other 5-year Max guys because they traded for Simmons. (NBA rule that you can only trade for one max-salary guy from his original team).

I would think Boston, but do they want to move Brown and picks for Durant?
Miami would just be Hero, filler and picks
Memphis is interesting, but I'm not sure their package would beat what the Suns could do (assuming Ja isn't in it). Plus, do teams like New Orleans and Memphis want to trade all their assets for Durant?

Brown and picks I guess makes sense. Not really sure what Brooklyn plans to do though.

If they blow it all up, I guess Phoenix for 4 1st rounders and some pick swaps works as well.

It's really tough because I don't think we've ever had a star under contract for this many years available for a trade. You almost can't put a value on him with all the restrictions there are on pick trading and salary matching. Makes me wonder if Brooklyn would be better off just calling his bluff and refusing to trade him for now.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 01:56 PM   #326
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
I don't think they can trade Lavine now. Seems like he wants to stay in Chicago and signed a deal already.

He must have just signed
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 01:56 PM   #327
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
Celts getting Brogdon is a good move if he can stay healthy. Guy is crazy underrated
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 02:36 PM   #328
Kodos
Resident Alien
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Damn. Wrong thread.
__________________
Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

Last edited by Kodos : 07-01-2022 at 02:37 PM.
Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 02:42 PM   #329
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
Miles Bridges picked the exact wrong time to mess up
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 02:45 PM   #330
miami_fan
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
Woj Says…

Rudy Gobert to the T-Wolves. Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverly, others and multiple 1st rounders.
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946
miami_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 02:47 PM   #331
Lathum
Favored Bitch #1
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by miami_fan View Post
Woj Says…

Rudy Gobert to the T-Wolves. Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverly, others and multiple 1st rounders.

Guess Mitchell won that one. something had to give there.
Lathum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 02:48 PM   #332
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevew View Post
Miles Bridges picked the exact wrong time to mess up

I don't know if there is a grace period between an agreement and when it's official, but he was days away from like $160 million. What a complete fucking idiot.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 02:49 PM   #333
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by miami_fan View Post
Woj Says…

Rudy Gobert to the T-Wolves. Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverly, others and multiple 1st rounders.

So are they going to play KAT at PF?
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 02:55 PM   #334
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Wow, 4 1sts (3 unprotected, 1 top-5 protected) a pick swap in another year AND Minnesota's 1st round pick from this recent draft.

Really like Rudy Gobert but that's a pretty insane haul for a 30 year old center on a giant deal.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 03:04 PM   #335
miami_fan
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
Towns for KD?
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946
miami_fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 05:02 PM   #336
stevew
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
They can’t trade Towns cause they gave him 56 million a season.
stevew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 05:27 PM   #337
jbergey22
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
Wow, 4 1sts (3 unprotected, 1 top-5 protected) a pick swap in another year AND Minnesota's 1st round pick from this recent draft.

Really like Rudy Gobert but that's a pretty insane haul for a 30 year old center on a giant deal.

It is insane giving up them picks where the Timberwolves typically draft. 4 players in the low to mid 20s is most of the time pretty meh(which is most likely where these picks will fall based on the wolves suddenly very young and talented team).


Not sure if they have the cap to keep everyone but they have a very strong starting lineup and just improved their biggest weakness by getting the best rim protector in the NBA. I am not complaining. It is about time they brought in ownership that wants to win now.

Last edited by jbergey22 : 07-01-2022 at 05:28 PM.
jbergey22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 07:57 PM   #338
jbergey22
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by miami_fan View Post
Towns for KD?

F No
jbergey22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 07:41 AM   #339
GrantDawg
World Champion Mis-speller
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
Red Velvet has left the building and y'all are talking about someone as unimportant as KD. (jk.)
GrantDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 04:53 PM   #340
Danny
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
So was the nets "super team" the biggest dissappintent and failure in nba history?
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 05:02 PM   #341
SirFozzie
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
Not sure it's even the biggest disappointment/failure in NETS history (super trade one with the Celtics)
__________________
Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com
SirFozzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 05:08 PM   #342
Danny
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
I disagree that was an old over the hill team that no one actually thought would win it all
Danny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 05:36 PM   #343
BishopMVP
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
I disagree that was an old over the hill team that no one actually thought would win it all
Disagree - it wasn't obvious until after the trade just how old Pierce and KG were. KG immediately went from a 15/8 guy to 6/6. Jason Kidd probably also wasn't the best coach then either... Brooklyns New Look Nets Who Wants A Piece Of Them 2013-14 Sports Illustrated Cover Art Print by Sports Illustrated | Sports Illustrated Covers

That team won 44 games and was never even in the realm of title contention when on the court together despite the hype, this one for all it's glorious faults was an inch away from beating the Bucks and possibly winning a title (I think they beat the Hawks, but Suns is an open question given Harden and Kyrie's health at the time.)
BishopMVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 05:37 PM   #344
Lathum
Favored Bitch #1
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
That deal also set the Nets back a decade between cap hell and lack of picks.
Lathum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 06:10 PM   #345
BishopMVP
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
The best part is that they got KD and Kyrie basically for free, then still decided to trade Caris Levert, Jarrett Allen, 3 unprotected 1sts & 4 swaps for Harden. It was insane then, just like I think Minnesota trading that much for Gobert is when they already had KAT and Ant.
BishopMVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 08:38 PM   #346
jbergey22
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopMVP View Post
The best part is that they got KD and Kyrie basically for free, then still decided to trade Caris Levert, Jarrett Allen, 3 unprotected 1sts & 4 swaps for Harden. It was insane then, just like I think Minnesota trading that much for Gobert is when they already had KAT and Ant.

My follow up question is. How else does Minnesota get another player they needed to have a legitimate championship caliber team? They needed a rim protector that was obvious in the Memphis series. Contending teams don't care much about 1st round picks so that is why they can give so many of them. Lottery picks are a different story. Will it work out? Who knows, but its better than having this team lose out in the 1st round the next 3 years and lose Ant. They are going after it in their window of opportunity. Good for them.

Last edited by jbergey22 : 07-02-2022 at 08:39 PM.
jbergey22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 08:53 PM   #347
BishopMVP
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbergey22 View Post
My follow up question is. How else does Minnesota get another player they needed to have a legitimate championship caliber team? They needed a rim protector that was obvious in the Memphis series. Contending teams don't care much about 1st round picks so that is why they can give so many of them. Lottery picks are a different story. Will it work out? Who knows, but its better than having this team lose out in the 1st round the next 3 years and lose Ant. They are going after it in their window of opportunity. Good for them.
You can get rim protector's cheaper than 4 almost entirely unprotected 1st's out to 2029 + a swap + 2.5 of your 3.5 good defenders. And Ant is 20 (and wouldn't leave in FA when his rookie deal is up - no one who is offered the rookie max extension does), KAT 26, and this trade barely moved the T'Wolves title odds for this coming season.

In today's NBA you can't count on being a contender 5-7 years down the line, so IMO doing a deal like that for anyone that doesn't immediately vault you into the top tier is crazy. I'd rather get a John Collins or Clint Capela for much cheaper and see if Ant can make another on court jump before pot committing the franchise future.
BishopMVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 09:01 PM   #348
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopMVP View Post
I'd rather get a John Collins or Clint Capela for much cheaper and see if Ant can make another on court jump before pot committing the franchise future.

But you probably weren't getting Collins without sending KAT in the deal. Hawks are buying, not selling (whether that makes sense or not is beside the point)
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 09:05 PM   #349
BishopMVP
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
But you probably weren't getting Collins without sending KAT in the deal. Hawks are buying, not selling (whether that makes sense or not is beside the point)

Hahaha what? Hawks have been listening on Collins for years now and needed to cut payroll after the Murray deal. Even after the Huerter deal they like Okungwu a ton (rightfully IMO) and don't think they need to pay >$40m to Collins & Capela (again probably correct.) Even the Lakers brain trust wouldn't be insane enough to ask for KAT for John Collins!
BishopMVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2022, 09:17 PM   #350
jbergey22
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopMVP View Post
You can get rim protector's cheaper than 4 almost entirely unprotected 1st's out to 2029 + a swap + 2.5 of your 3.5 good defenders. And Ant is 20 (and wouldn't leave in FA when his rookie deal is up - no one who is offered the rookie max extension does), KAT 26, and this trade barely moved the T'Wolves title odds for this coming season.

In today's NBA you can't count on being a contender 5-7 years down the line, so IMO doing a deal like that for anyone that doesn't immediately vault you into the top tier is crazy. I'd rather get a John Collins or Clint Capela for much cheaper and see if Ant can make another on court jump before pot committing the franchise future.

I think it does vault them into the top tier. Ant is is going to be elite and the addition of Gobert helps cover up KATs weakness. Wolves have been accumulating 1st's for years and hasnt landed them a playoff series win in almost 20 years.

Last edited by jbergey22 : 07-02-2022 at 09:21 PM.
jbergey22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:24 AM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.