Werewolf XII: Mafia Returneth

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Didn't get me.

There are quite a few LVPs in this game though. They shall remain nameless.

I'll come out on that one. I panicked, lost my cool and took the focus completely away from where it should have been(Blade, Shorty, etc.) Sorry for that guys, Ya live and learn I guess. See ya next time, and I hope this game isn't held against me, that was just some flat out good lieing and good mafia play, although I still can't believe there were 5 mafia and that bearcat wasn't one of them. That REALLY blows my mind.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Upon further reconsideration, I'm suspecting Blade and Shorty are Mafia.

Why? Blade, we already know, has claimed to be a seer. He has further claimed that it was unnecessary to view Bek because he "knew" Bek was a Mafioso, and said that such a viewing would have been wasted in light of that knowledge.

Bek, of course, turned out to be a villager, and despite Blade's "revelation," he wasn't the prime target of the Mafia last night. There's really no way they could have known Bug was the Newspaper Reporter unless one of their players has a similar role and just managed to hit the jackpot, so I don't see any other logical reason for them to choose to leave Blade alive while they take out random villagers.

Also, he apparently did not view anybody last night (although this is probably the flimsiest straw in my case against him).

So why do I think Shorty is also a Mafioso?

Well, Blade claimed to have viewed both Shorty and myself in the first two nights, and declared both of us "clean." If most of the villagers already trusted me before that point - and I'd like to think that's the case - what better way to slip another Mafioso inside the "circle of trust" than to label him "clean" along with another player already known or suspected to be safe?

And yet...we really have nothing to go on to this point but Blade's word that he isn't a Mafioso. We have claims that he's viewed Shorty and myself, but we also have an assertion that viewing Bek was unnecessary, when we now know that if he's on the level, and had he acted on his suspicions and viewed Bek, an innocent villager could have been saved. We have either a failure to scan anybody last night, or else the following proposition:

The Mafia are incredibly lucky, hitting on two important villagers in successive attacks, while our own seer is either incompetent, or simply so mistrustful of his fellow villagers that he's selecting safe people each night to view, on the hypothesis that it's "always the ones you wouldn't otherwise suspect.

That I suspect Shorty isn't because of anything Shorty has or hasn't done, but simply because I believe Blade to be a Mafioso at this point, and that being so, it would make perfect sense to me for him to try and slip Shorty inside the village's "circle of trust."

So I vote Shorty.

My reasoning here is that if my hypothesis is true and correct, uncovering Shorty will expose Blade in a major way. After all, if Bek was innocent and Shorty guilty - both the opposite of Blade's assertions - then we know Blade is lying, and we have our target for tomorrow night.

If I'm wrong, then we've made another horrible mistake, but we've made quite a few of those this game, and it isn't as though I have anything better than this to go on right now thanks to the witness and newspaper reporter croaking.

Post-mortem consolation: I hit the jackpot.

[MrBug708]

It hurt when the first two people I looked at where both villagers

[Mr. Wednesday]

At this point in the game, with no seers at all and the mafia nailing their conversion, the villagers were completely behind the 8-ball. And really, only MrBug would have been much help... my role was the most powerful after a couple of mafia had been bagged to go for the close-out. In any other situation, I would be committing suicide to use it.

Gotta say, I don't think killing me made sense from a game development standpoint... I nearly blew the X-Com game (which was saved by everyone else), I was completely useless in IX, my track record as a villager is piss poor. I nailed the roles in mafia v1.0 after two or three nights, but that's not a huge accomplishment given the way that game developed, and I was never able to leverage that into an endgame strategy.

I'm shocked Blade was able to pull off the play he pulled off. When Neon told me what was going on there, I was astonished that he drew so much attention to himself (from both the villagers and the mafia) intentionally, but obviously it worked out.

Also, I wonder how things might have progressed without the foolish feud between RealDeal and the others.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Post-mortem consolation: I hit the jackpot.

The right conclusion, but for the wrong reasons.

I admit I wasn't following the game all that closely after getting killed, but I didn't have a clue what was going on until Neon clued me in a bit.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

The right conclusion, but for the wrong reasons.

True, but the way the early going went, I would have had to either be an incredibly audacious Mafiso, with the balls to hang out two of my partners and hope you guys would turn another way, or be the greatest clairvoyant of all time to know the right reasons by the time I started to build any kind of a case.

[Blade6119]

Bek and i were shocked i wasnt killed by the villagers after getting both bek and real deal killed...then on gthe day i should have gone i shut up and let jeff and dubb play out a duel, and then bsed a role that almost everyone bought...every step i was shocked people let occur...i shouldnt have even lived past the day bek got killed, as no mafia would be stupid enough to send that...i knew it was a joke, and that he was a villager...but my role sucked so i took steps to make it more fun...and to help me win, as i need villagers dead...im still shocked i got away with all i did, but im sure any trust i had built with anyone is now gone and next game will be hell for me

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

True, but the way the early going went, I would have had to either be an incredibly audacious Mafiso, with the balls to hang out two of my partners and hope you guys would turn another way, or be the greatest clairvoyant of all time to know the right reasons by the time I started to build any kind of a case.

LOL, if i had known shorty was bad i would have left him out...hell, i thought you were mafia the ENTIRE game, and made sure not to attack you too much...i thought shorty was the villager and i was sneaking you in lol...i was convinced after your role reveal you went on night two and you were the dons son...not until the end of the game did i have even the slightest hint it was shorty...i kept trying to clear you on the final day and get shorty killed lol...god i had no idea who i was supposed to protect...but congrats on getting one mafia and one "semi-sorcerer"...more then most can say

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

LOL, if i had known shorty was bad i would have left him out...hell, i thought you were mafia the ENTIRE game, and made sure not to attack you too much...i thought shorty was the villager and i was sneaking you in lol...i was convinced after your role reveal you went on night two and you were the dons son...not until the end of the game did i have even the slightest hint it was shorty...i kept trying to clear you on the final day and get shorty killed lol...god i had no idea who i was supposed to protect...but congrats on getting one mafia and one "semi-sorcerer"...more then most can say

So let me get this straight: I *nailed* your strategy of trying to slip in a Mafioso with a clean villager to try and get them both trusted...and not only did the two you picked happen to actually BE Mafia+villager...but you got them backwards?

You owe me a new keyboard. That's just hilariously awesome.

[korme]

Well I missed tonight's vote, sorry guys.

Doesn't matter! Nice work AE, SnDvls, illini, Fouts, and now I guess even Blade!

First time as a bad guy (albeit started off as a good guy), first win in a Werewolf game. Usually I am used to defending my ass when I'm really an innocent villager, so continuing to pretend like an innocent villager wasn't too hard.

Lots of trickery went on this game.

[korme]

Mucho ups to Sack for not getting off my case all game.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Mucho ups to Sack for not getting off my case all game.

To be fair, most of my suspicion of you was really reflected from Blade. I didn't thnk Blade was on the level, and I thought "Hey, if *I* were Mafia, this would be a brilliant move...I wonder if that's what he's trying?"

Without that, I never would have suspected you.

[Vince]

Man, this was straight pwnage.

Fun to follow along though

[Vince]

Dola --

Props to Blade -- I'm reading along, thinking that you are a complete and utter lack-wit...and come to find out you're holding the strings. Well done

[Neon_Chaos]

Glad you guys had fun. That was some intense gameplay.

Gameball goes to Blade6119, for making the best out of an awkward role.

Watch out for my next game...

[SnDvls]

There are a few things I can take from this game since I was a bad guy to future games if I'm a good guy again.

1) The bad guys will twist anything and everything they can
2) The bad guys will jump on anyone and anything in subtle fashion to sway the vote
and suspision between two villagers
3) People who freely "reveal" their role are probally bad...lynch them ASAP (not always the case, but a good read)

Blade- good play. You dropped off our radar once you cleared Fouts. We thought why kill off someone who is clearing, and getting people to belive it, one of our own. There were times we even had to get them to consider you with the whole 3 seers thing.

Sack & Bearcat - The moment you two questioned eachother we knew we could play a little of it off and sway votes away from us. we decided that we would pile on Bearcat on the last day at the last min. knowing we'd get the win. The villagers almost stopped us except for Illni's quick thinking.

Jeff - you were on our chopping block many times, to get pulled off at the last min. everytime.

Neon - great game had a blast playing.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Vince

Props to Blade -- I'm reading along, thinking that you are a complete and utter lack-wit...and come to find out you're holding the strings. Well done

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Gameball goes to Blade6119, for making the best out of an awkward role.

Thanks alot guys, i appreciate it...fun game, just aggravating since i was thinking like a villager so i wanted ardent and fouts to die, but had to keep telling myself no, their on your side...but it was fun, cant wait to die in the next one.

[jeff061]

Jeff - you were on our chopping block many times, to get pulled off at the last min. everytime.

I'm flattered... . Let me ask, if I hadn't of voted for Fouts twice would I of been done for? I took that into consideration as I lived through a couple nights.

I agree with the rest of your post and took away many of the same things when I was Evil (even though I was only a convert). Subtelty is the key, you can whatever you want as long as it's not obvious enough to convince more than one or two people. Now you get to join the world of the frustrated as you have trouble communicating these ideas to your allies as they bandwagon on someone you know is innocent .

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm flattered... . Let me ask, if I hadn't of voted for Fouts twice would I of been done for? I took that into consideration as I lived through a couple nights.

Really all that happened was that someone else jumpped up and started stiring up trouble. Mr. W was 1st because he was too good of a player. Shorty was 2nd to frame Sack, we got lucky and got a convert. Bug was next, to hopefully set you up as the fall guy. We just lucked out that he was the reporter. I deleated my PM's but they would have been fun to share what we mafia were thinking/doing. It opens up a lot to everyone to see the side conversations we were having and how we were thinking. By sharing this info I think it does two things; 1) makes stronger players 2) makes everyone trust no one, thus making it harder for the good guys.

[illinifan999]

We thought we had it in the bag the night that sack got protected. Plan was to take out sack have the 6-5 numbers and then all 5 of us vote at the last minute for whoever had 1 vote. Then he got protected, people started voting me so I had to make up some sort of role to hopefully save me. Thought there was an outside chance it would work, and lucky for us it did. But when blade said fouts was clean we all kinda pm'ed each other and were like so he's lying about his role. And when dubb did the these 4 guys are the mafia and only had 1 of us on it, our eyes lit up again.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

We thought we had it in the bag the night that sack got protected. Plan was to take out sack have the 6-5 numbers and then all 5 of us vote at the last minute for whoever had 1 vote. Then he got protected, people started voting me so I had to make up some sort of role to hopefully save me. Thought there was an outside chance it would work, and lucky for us it did. But when blade said fouts was clean we all kinda pm'ed each other and were like so he's lying about his role. And when dubb did the these 4 guys are the mafia and only had 1 of us on it, our eyes lit up again.

Too true.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Really all that happened was that someone else jumpped up and started stiring up trouble. Mr. W was 1st because he was too good of a player. Shorty was 2nd to frame Sack, we got lucky and got a convert. Bug was next, to hopefully set you up as the fall guy. We just lucked out that he was the reporter. I deleated my PM's but they would have been fun to share what we mafia were thinking/doing. It opens up a lot to everyone to see the side conversations we were having and how we were thinking. By sharing this info I think it does two things; 1) makes stronger players 2) makes everyone trust no one, thus making it harder for the good guys.

Between the three attempts on my life and the attempt to frame me, I'm almost flattered.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I'm flattered that you guys still think I'm a good player, in spite of my atrocious record.

[Poli]

It was my idea.

[RealDeal]

Been gone a few days and just read the conclusion to this and wanted to give Blade his deserved props. Obviously killing bek wasn't a bad play at all considering his role.

*tips hat*

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Been gone a few days and just read the conclusion to this and wanted to give Blade his deserved props. Obviously killing bek wasn't a bad play at all considering his role.

*tips hat*

[Poli]

I'm not sure why Blade would point my way if he thought I was mafia, though.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I'm not sure why Blade would point my way if he thought I was mafia, though.

Trying to cover my tracks...since i wasnt sure about any of you(only strong suspicions of you and fouts, i had to make sure if one of you died or were killed i didnt look bad...i had done nothing but get villagers killed, and i had stepped out and "cleared" three people...i figured i had at least one in that group, and i also figured you were in the clear. That way, if you died, fouts and those would be clear becuase i wouldnt kill one mafia member and protect another...

It was seperation...no one would connect you and fouts together if i was protecting fouts and attacking you..that way we wouldnt lose by domino effect. Sorry it was you ardent, but i after you two i had no idea, and i had already supported fouts...make sense?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Been gone a few days and just read the conclusion to this and wanted to give Blade his deserved props. Obviously killing bek wasn't a bad play at all considering his role.

*tips hat*

Thank you realdeal, thats means a lot coming from you...hopefully we will get to match wits next game and come out on top together. I appreciate the kind words.