Breaking Bad

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by panerd

Thanks. I knew the lady but wasn't sure if I should be familiar with the people involved in the fire fight.

Spoiler

In the end, I have a hunch that Walt's demise is going to come from Todd, his Uncle's posse, and Lydia. I harken back to Mike's regret about giving Lydia more than one "second chance", when his instinct told him that she couldn't be trusted and should be eliminated.

[Johnny93g]

Just incase..

Spoiler

Breaking Bad focuses on a former Chemistry teacher, Walter White, who decides to start cooking meth after he is diagnosed with cancer. He partners with a former student of his, Jesse Pinkman, the classic underachiever, who introduces Walt into the world of illegal narcotics

[Tasan]

I found myself yelling "you can't stop there" as the credits hit. Amazing, can't wait for the next one.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I tend to read a few reviews of each episode. Mainly, I read them in case there was some subtlety I missed or reference I didn't quite pick up. Something I have been avoiding is all the rampant speculation about how the show will end.

I really don't want to know. I've even been avoiding "scenes from next week's Breaking Bad." I really enjoy going in blind each and every week.

[jeff061]

Ha, I avoid the scenes from next week for all TV shows. I also avoid commercials when possible. Why does everyone want things spoiled?

Except for Dexter, I did end up breaking my no preview rule after 3 episodes with nothing going on and no interesting storyline in sight.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by panerd

Last night's show? Any comments? Was there a lot of whispering or was my sound screwed up? Not sure I understood the segment with the lady. Can't wait for Hank/Jessie next week! Pretty much a ho hum episode, needed to happen but nothing earth shattering.

Yes, they did seem to indulge in a little DeNiro/Hoffman acting through sniffles and pained expression rather than speech (thought Hoffman really had jumped his shark in Luck, which was mercifully canceled early).

Already 25% through the season. It's a shame that it's only eight episodes, but both so far have been riveting, end-to-end. If that's how Gilligan handles the challenge of a short season, it's great stuff.

There are definitely no heroes in this story. Gilligan has said he wants us to hate Walt, but he's still somewhat holding on to a moral code. He hasn't cheated, like Skyler. He seems to genuinely want to protect his family. He doesn't haul off and punch people when he's angry, like Hank (over and over - this is not a guy who would be leading an FBI office, let alone avoiding some jail time, in the real world). He's ruthless, but not stupidly violent, like every other drug kingpin we've seen - even Gus. He's still playing in a world he really doesn't fit. He's got a lot of blood on his hands, though. And Lydia is probably his toughest nemesis yet.

I know it's not what people necessarily are "supposed" to think, but I'm anti-Hank. I know I'll enjoy how it's done, but I cringed a little when they showed Hank all ready for another round with Jesse, who is obviously struggling. Why didn't they just cast Mike Tyson in the Hank role?

And Marie trying to kidnap her sister's baby? That's definitely a couple who doesn't consider its actions.

[jeff061]

Listening to Hank try to talk Skyler into not getting a lawyer by using the "fact" that he cares about her was fantastic. Hank is as selfishly driven as Walt(if not a murderer), just on the other side of the law.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I kinda like the "Skysenberg" hashtag that was floating around Monday

That diner scene might be the first time I've ever actually liked her.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Brilliant.

[tarcone]

That was a great episode. The dinner meet. The video. Jesse figuring it out. Why the house looked like it did.

Awesome.

[CleBrownsfan]

That was the quickest hour of TV ever!! Amazing episode!

[Radii]

A question I'm curious about after reading through the reddit discussion thread on the episode:

Spoiler

1) Did you figure out what Jesse was coming to realize when he was looking for his weed/pulling out the cigarette pack?

2) Do you buy it as a reasonable way for Jesse to learn that Walt poisoned Brock back in season 4 and manipulated Jesse w/ the ricin cigarette?

I knew what was up right away, and I buy Jesse piecing things together enough to confront Saul and learn the truth for sure. But I know I'm all in as a fanboy here and it would take a lot for me to not completely buy into what the writers are giving us. There were a lot of people asking in the live discussion thread on reddit "wait what just happened?" etc.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Radii

A question I'm curious about after reading through the reddit discussion thread on the episode:

Yes to the first question. No for the 2nd question.

I got it, but it felt like a bit of a reach tbh. I suspect Gilligan will at some point tell us exactly what was in his head that let him make the connection; i.e. the logic trail that was used.

[Radii]

This was my off the cuff reply to one of the folks expressing confusion on reddit:

Spoiler

Jesse now knows that Walt has been manipulating him every step of the way and I believe assuming the worst in Walt at every turn. So when he realizes that Huell lifted the pot off him, it triggers the memory of bumping into Huell right before his pack of cigs with the Ricin disappeared. Until the very end of Brock's hospital stay, Jesse was convinced that Brock was poisoned by Ricin. When Jesse was convinced it was Ricin back in season 4, Walt manipulated the fuck out of Jesse to get Jesse away from Gus/Mike and back on Walt's side to get Jesse's help killing Gus.

Looking back on all these events with the newfound understanding that Walt has been manipulating Jesse for his own gain every step of the way, Jesse figures out what happened, or at least pieces it together strongly enough to confront Saul about it.

Whether or not the viewer buys all of this as a reasonable thing for Jesse to figure out in this manner is up to us, but I'm pretty sure that's the thought process.

I think I'm basically giving a lot of credit to a strong feeling of deja vu in that moment for Jesse in buying into the way it was shown, but as I said I'm open to the idea that I drank the Vince Gilligan kool-aid long ago and will buy anything now. And I'm sure you're right that Gilligan will talk through it when asked.


Anyway, freaking spectacular episode, after the amazing moment with the video, I assumed things were just winding down and moving pieces around for the last bit, boy was I wrong.

[Bad-example]

Why the spoiler tags?

I thought it was a little far-fetched, Jessie making that connection. I guess I'm ok with it.

How is it that both Jessie and Saul are so sure that Walt killed Mike?

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Why the spoiler tags?

Because it hasnt aired on the west coast yet unless your provider randomly gives you the east coast feed like mine does.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Because it hasnt aired on the west coast yet unless your provider randomly gives you the east coast feed like mine does.

People not bright enough to avoid this thread during those three hours deserve to be spoiled.

[Brownkeg8]

the only problem is that Walt used Lily of the Valley and the official diagnosis was Brock wasn't poisoned by ricin. Not a big issue in the show for me, but seemed to be randomly thrown in there to keep Jesse in the picture and upset.

Originally Posted by Radii

This was my off the cuff reply to one of the folks expressing confusion on reddit:

Spoiler

Jesse now knows that Walt has been manipulating him every step of the way and I believe assuming the worst in Walt at every turn. So when he realizes that Huell lifted the pot off him, it triggers the memory of bumping into Huell right before his pack of cigs with the Ricin disappeared. Until the very end of Brock's hospital stay, Jesse was convinced that Brock was poisoned by Ricin. When Jesse was convinced it was Ricin back in season 4, Walt manipulated the fuck out of Jesse to get Jesse away from Gus/Mike and back on Walt's side to get Jesse's help killing Gus.

Looking back on all these events with the newfound understanding that Walt has been manipulating Jesse for his own gain every step of the way, Jesse figures out what happened, or at least pieces it together strongly enough to confront Saul about it.

Whether or not the viewer buys all of this as a reasonable thing for Jesse to figure out in this manner is up to us, but I'm pretty sure that's the thought process.

I think I'm basically giving a lot of credit to a strong feeling of deja vu in that moment for Jesse in buying into the way it was shown, but as I said I'm open to the idea that I drank the Vince Gilligan kool-aid long ago and will buy anything now. And I'm sure you're right that Gilligan will talk through it when asked.


Anyway, freaking spectacular episode, after the amazing moment with the video, I assumed things were just winding down and moving pieces around for the last bit, boy was I wrong.

[JonInMiddleGA]

What kinda bothered me was that we knew - from the flash forward - that the house wasn't going to burn. Knowing that, I thought the cold ending was a bad play, there's no suspense there.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Radii

1) Did you figure out what Jesse was coming to realize when he was looking for his weed/pulling out the cigarette pack?

I thought the desert conversation was more of a tell. Jesse saying something like, "can you not just this once not play me?"

[nol]

I think it was a pretty neat progression of how Jesse figured things out.

Spoiler

For how poorly Hank handled things with Skyler last week, he really made up for it by initially planting the seed of doubt in Jesse's mind. "My own brother-in-law lying to me for over a year, using me. Maybe you understand that feeling." Between that interrogation and the meeting in the desert, you can tell that Jesse has spent a lot of time thinking things over as he finally accuses Walt of killing Mike. I think that was an appropriate amount of lead-up for Jesse's big realization.

As for the house fire, the main source of concern isn't any loss of life or property, but how the conflict between Walt and Jesse escalates. If the authorities get involved in any way, it'll be the first time anyone besides Hank will be aware of Walt's link to the drug trade.

[Logan]

I guess I could see it as a leap, but I personally didn't take it as such.

BTW, I didn't realize it until the opening scene, probably because it was the first time there was a close up of him when he wasn't learning to cook meth...but holy shit does Todd look and sound like Matt Damon. It freaked me out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

does Todd look and sound like Matt Damon.

I'd noticed it before, but it was very pronounced last night, so +1

[Butter]

Great episode, yet again. They sure know how to keep viewers on the edge of their seats.

I think what happens now is that Jesse accuses Walt of poisoning Brock with the ricin, but Walt can show him where the ricin is and that he didn't actually do it. He'll be able to explain it away and keep Jesse at bay for a little while longer. Sounds actually weak now that I've written it, so it'll probably be better than that.

But I agree with JIMGa, that the suspense about Jesse burning the house down has been taken away by the flash-forward from episode 1... now the question is, why does he stop himself from burning it down?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Great episode, yet again. They sure know how to keep viewers on the edge of their seats.

I think what happens now is that Jesse accuses Walt of poisoning Brock with the ricin, but Walt can show him where the ricin is and that he didn't actually do it. He'll be able to explain it away and keep Jesse at bay for a little while longer. Sounds actually weak now that I've written it, so it'll probably be better than that.

Hmmm...

Didn't the doctors rule out ricin as the cause? Jessie told them to check for ricin, they did, and found that wasn't why Brock was sick, but rather it was because he ate Lily of the Valley.

Up until now, I believe Jessie thought that he'd lost the ricin cigarette. In fact, didn't he and Walt spend significant amount of time together searching every inch of Jessie's apartment for it when he was freaking out?

If Walt were to come in and show Jessie that he had the cigarette all along, I don't think that would keep Jessie at bay at all.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I think what happens now is that Jesse accuses Walt of poisoning Brock with the ricin, but Walt can show him where the ricin is and that he didn't actually do it. He'll be able to explain it away and keep Jesse at bay for a little while longer. Sounds actually weak now that I've written it, so it'll probably be better than that.

Jesse already knows that it was the lily of the valley, not ricin, that poisoned Brock. He found that out after he warned the doctors of the likely ricin poisoning in an attempt to save Brock's life.

edit: HB beat me. But to add on to his post, I found this posted somewhere else (also taken from somewhere else) that lays out the timing of events. I think it's also important to remember that in the context of the show, not much time has passed, at least compared to how we've watched it. There was a three month (or so) jump during the Season 5a finale but besides that, we've been moving fairly slowly.

4-12 - "End Times"

Jesse, upon receiving a bunch of calls from Saul, goes to his office
to discover shit has hit the fan with Walt and Gus and Saul is leaving
town. When he arrives, Huell pats him down ostensibly for weapons.
During this pat down, he removes the back of cigarettes with the ricin
inside and switches it out for another pack.


Later that episode, he steps out to smoke at the hospital and notices
the ricin cigarette is gone. He panics, goes to Walt, accuses him of
poisoning Brock. Walt vehemently denies and even holds Jesse's gun to
his own head. Walt convinces Jesse to help him kill Gus.


4-13 - "Face Off"

Jesse suggests ricin to Andrea, who tells the doctors. Doctors call
the cops, Jesse gets hauled in for questioning. Turns out to not be
ricin after all, but Lily of the Valley. Episode ends with a close up of
the plant in Walt's backyard, obviously identifying Walt as the
poisoner


5-1 - "Live Free Or Die"

Saul returns the ricin cigarette to Walt while confirming Huell
lifted it; he says it's a wonder he didn't break it open with his "hot
dog fingers." Walt removes the ricin capsule and hides it behind an
outlet cover in his bedroom (where it will stay until the teaser for
5-9).


5-2 - "Madrigal"

Jesse is stressing about losing the cigarette, so Walt makes a
duplicate using salt in place of the poison and plants it in Jesse's
Roomba under the guise of helping him look for it around his house.
Jesse finds it and breaks down crying and apologizing for suspecting
Walt, and Walt flushes the duplicate.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Thanks for that recap, Logan. I didn't remember some of that. I actually totally forgot about the fake cigarette in the Roomba.

Given that, it seems like Jesse's revelation is even more of a reach. He not only would have to believe that Huell lifted the cigarette to make it look like Gus took it, then Walt some how managed to poision Brock with Lily of the Valley, and then Walt made a fake cigarette to replace the old one and hide it in the Roomba.

That last one is quite the leap.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Thanks for that recap, Logan. I didn't remember some of that. I actually totally forgot about the fake cigarette in the Roomba.

Given that, it seems like Jesse's revelation is even more of a reach. He not only would have to believe that Huell lifted the cigarette to make it look like Gus took it, then Walt some how managed to poision Brock with Lily of the Valley, and then Walt made a fake cigarette to replace the old one and hide it in the Roomba.

That last one is quite the leap.

I think that's where you have to remember earlier in this same episode, Jesse confronting Walt about how he is always manipulating him and everyone around him, and how he lies about everything. So in that context, with that fresh in his mind, he makes the connection.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

I think that's where you have to remember earlier in this same episode, Jesse confronting Walt about how he is always manipulating him and everyone around him, and how he lies about everything. So in that context, with that fresh in his mind, he makes the connection.

I think they did a good job setting it up. Also, Walt's last few lies to Jesse have been incredibly weak. I think Walt has gotten so used to lying to Jesse that, at this point, he things he can pretty much say anything and have Jesse believe it. This goes back to Walt's hubris, which has always been one of, if not the, character's tragic flaws.

[Butter]

But if this is all the case, then it doesn't make sense why Jesse is flipping out at Saul about Walt poisoning Brock with the ricin cigarette that Huell lifted off Jesse.

That was quite the sentence.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

But if this is all the case, then it doesn't make sense why Jesse is flipping out at Saul about Walt poisoning Brock with the ricin cigarette that Huell lifted off Jesse.

That was quite the sentence.

He's flipping out about Saul working with Walt as part of the scam to make him think it was Gus who poisoned Brock, which is what turned Jesse away from wanting to kill Walt and got him to work with him again to go after Gus.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Logan

He's flipping out about Saul working with Walt as part of the scam to make him think it was Gus who poisoned Brock, which is what turned Jesse away from wanting to kill Walt and got him to work with him again to go after Gus.

This.

In the end we (and Jesse) understand that Brock was poisoned by the Lily of the Valley plant, but for most of that time we believe that Brock was poisoned by Ricin. Jesse first believes it to be his fault (there's a scene where he tells his girlfriend... Andrea I think? to tell the doctors to check for ricin poisoning when he realizes his cigarettes are missing). Then he starts to think its a ploy by Walt... remember that Walt was legitimately weak at the time. Jesse was cooking for Gus and was really close to Mike, Walt was out and feared for his life. Walt convinces Jesse that Gus was behind everything and that Gus is the true mastermind, and that's what brings Jesse back to Walt's side.

Back to the present, Jesse now realizes that everything Walt says to him is basically done out of selfish manipulation, that understanding allows him to put the pieces together and go to Saul for confirmation.


The last thing left for Jesse to find out is that Walt was there when Jane died and could have saved her,but chose not to. Only Walt knows about this so he'd have to tell Jesse at some point if that's going to come out.

[Butter]

This explains all that, from the writer's perspective. Thanks. I got a little confused there that Jesse thought that Brock still got poisoned by ricin, but obviously that's not what happened.

[PackerFanatic]

As they said on Talking Bad, even though Walt "found" the cigarette in Jesse's house, you have to think that Jesse was still stewing over that for a while - how would he have lost it, etc. He is a smart kid and the whole Huell/weed thing at the end brought it all back up and made everything click. Maybe a little bit of a leap, but not that much if you give Jesse some credit.

[Radii]

Well this is pretty much perfect.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If the copyright owners don't invoke their rights, that has viral smash written all over it.

[panerd]

So I haven't seen any discussion here about the opening but the diner that the crazy kid and the two Europeans eating at is the same one Walt walked into last season with the trunk full of weapons right? If so was this opening also a flash forward?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by panerd

So I haven't seen any discussion here about the opening but the diner that the crazy kid and the two Europeans eating at is the same one Walt walked into last season with the trunk full of weapons right? If so was this opening also a flash forward?

I don't believe it was the same. The 5a opening diner seemed much bigger/lively than this one, and the bathroom where Walt took his pills looked bigger too than where Todd's uncle (not a European, just a neo-Nazi) cleaned off his shoe.

And it takes place after last week's shootout in the desert scene, as you can see them hauling the methlymine (sp?) that they took from Declan's operation behind their truck back into New Mexico.

People smarter than me think it was meant to show a) how Todd is still trying to get Walt to cook for them and b) how the new guys running this operation are much sloppier than Walt, first with Todd calling Walt and talking about his retirement and then telling his uncle and his buddy about the train heist and other implicating things out in the open.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't believe it was the same. The 5a opening diner seemed much bigger/lively than this one, and the bathroom where Walt took his pills looked bigger too than where Todd's uncle (not a European, just a neo-Nazi) cleaned off his shoe.

And it takes place after last week's shootout in the desert scene, as you can see them hauling the methlymine (sp?) that they took from Declan's operation behind their truck back into New Mexico.

People smarter than me think it was meant to show a) how Todd is still trying to get Walt to cook for them and b) how the new guys running this operation are much sloppier than Walt, first with Todd calling Walt and talking about his retirement and then telling his uncle and his buddy about the train heist and other implicating things out in the open.

Thanks that clears that up. The great part about this side story and you know its going to tie into the main Jessie/Walt/Hank story and most likely will come out of nowhere.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by panerd

Thanks that clears that up. The great part about this side story and you know its going to tie into the main Jessie/Walt/Hank story and most likely will come out of nowhere.

Well Now we see how these guys tie back in. Now just four more episodes for the whole thing to blow up on Walt.

[hoopsguy]

All caught up, just in time for the final four episodes. Went through the end of Season 2 to current in the last 2.5 weeks. Too much late night TV, but Seasons 3 and 4 were not something that I could easily walk away from ... so much "just one more episode" goodness, and very, very little in the way of "meh" episodes.

[ISiddiqui]

I AM THE ONE WHO.... calls Todd's uncle.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I AM THE ONE WHO.... calls Todd's uncle.

haha, very nice.

[tarcone]

Holy smokes. I dont want to wait until next Sunday.

[Radii]

I mentioned to a friend that Vince Gilligan got to craft 7 cliffhangers this season on the way to the final episode of the series. So yeah, that's still happening. Jesus.

[Jas_lov]

Gomey is dead for sure, probably Hank too since he called Marie right before he he'll die. Jessie and Walt will be kidnapped and forced to cook.

[JonInMiddleGA]

For a TV firefight that was a lot of rounds with nobody hitting anything smaller than a car. Last time I saw that many bullets with nobody dying might have been G.I. Joe vs Cobra.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Gomey is dead for sure, probably Hank too since he called Marie right before he he'll die. Jessie and Walt will be kidnapped and forced to cook.

This was my thought as well. I'm 50/50 on whether Jesse survives though.

[jeff061]

Great episode, didn't love this cliffhanger though. They could have shown who lives/dies without killing momentum.

[tarcone]

I think Jessie gets away. He takes off in the car. That will be the only usable vehicle.