2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[Edward64]

If I recall, pre-covid I was saying it's the economy and it would be good if we went into a recession in 2020 as we were overdue anyway. There was a discussion that asked if we would be willing to undergo a recession if it guaranteed Trump was kicked out, don't remember the nos. but I said yes.

It's pretty evident that Trump has support beyond the 38-42% core even in this worse case scenario for him. I do think Trump would have won a 2nd term if he would have acted like any other President, accepted it as real and showed he took it seriously.

Very interested in the demographics and post-mortem analysis to better understand those that voted for Trump.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

If I recall, pre-covid I was saying it's the economy and it would be good if we went into a recession in 2020 as we were overdue anyway. There was a discussion that asked if we would be willing to undergo a recession if it guaranteed Trump was kicked out, don't remember the nos. but I said yes.

It's pretty evident that Trump has support beyond the 38-42% core even in this worse case scenario for him. I do think Trump would have won a 2nd term if he would have acted like any other President, accepted it as real and showed he took it seriously.

Very interested in the demographics and post-mortem analysis to better understand those that voted for Trump.

I hope this is just Trump looking for attention otherwise this could quick start to be sedition and/or insurrection.

Election results – latest: Trump reportedly plans voter fraud rally tour across US as Biden begins transition

[JPhillips]

With the exception of Romney, Murkowski, a handful of Reps, and the NE governors, the entire GOP is going all-in on overthrowing the will of the voters. They'll probably fail, but it doesn't make the attempt any less despicable.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

With the exception of Romney, Murkowski, a handful of Reps, and the NE governors, the entire GOP is going all-in on overthrowing the will of the voters. They'll probably fail, but it doesn't make the attempt any less despicable.

where do you see that at?

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

With the exception of Romney, Murkowski, a handful of Reps, and the NE governors, the entire GOP is going all-in on overthrowing the will of the voters. They'll probably fail, but it doesn't make the attempt any less despicable.

Bush congratulates Biden, says election was 'fundamentally fair' and 'its outcome is clear'

"Though we have political differences, I know Joe Biden to be a good man, who has won his opportunity to lead and unify our country," Bush said. "The President-elect reiterated that while he ran as a Democrat, he will govern for all Americans. I offered him the same thing I offered Presidents Trump and Obama: my prayers for his success, and my pledge to help in any way I can."

"The challenges that face our country will demand the best of President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris -- and the best of us all," Bush said. "We must come together for the sake of our families and neighbors, and for our nation and its future. There is no problem that will not yield to the gathered will of a free people. Laura and I pray for our leaders and their families. We ask for God's continued blessings on our country. And we urge all Americans to join us in wishing our next President and Vice President well as they prepare to take up their important duties."

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I hope this is just Trump looking for attention otherwise this could quick start to be sedition and/or insurrection.

Election results – latest: Trump reportedly plans voter fraud rally tour across US as Biden begins transition

If he does this it becomes a clear dereliction of duty and I hope they invoke the 25th amendment and he is afforded no secret service protection.

Not one dime of taxpayer dollar should be spent on that.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Bush congratulates Biden, says election was 'fundamentally fair' and 'its outcome is clear'

Much to his credit. I was talking about currently elected or party leaders.

[Thomkal]

Just wanted to apologize for the Kluge family drama going on Facebook right now if you are friends with me there. I had hoped to reach out to the "other side" after the election went to Biden, but sadly its just revealing how entrenched we all are in our beliefs

[Brian Swartz]

It's been interesting to observe how the Trumpers on my social media are behaving. One has left to go to Parler. The consensus among the others has been on the 'we'll accept the results of the election, but we think it was fraudulent so wait until the Electoral College finalizes' front. I think this is what a lot the notably silent public Republicans are doing. They're just waiting it out; they know Trump has lost but they aren't going to tick off the peole that voted for him, since most of those people voted for them also, so they're just waiting for the inertia of the process to do it .

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Just wanted to apologize for the Kluge family drama going on Facebook right now if you are friends with me there. I had hoped to reach out to the "other side" after the election went to Biden, but sadly its just revealing how entrenched we all are in our beliefs

Your post was absolutely wonderful. Sorry it devolved like that.
My "blessed are the peacemakers" post from last night had you (among others) in mind.

[Thomkal]

Thanks Ben

[thesloppy]

Echoing Brian a bit, I was not surprised that Trump kept his base engaged, but I was/am truly flabbergasted that he managed to pick up any voters in the process of this 4-year shitshow.

[CrimsonFox]

it is no secret that piece of shit wants things to end up in front of the supreme court so they can give itto him

[Edward64]

TIL

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/08/polit...rnd/index.html

Kamala Harris on Saturday made history as America's first woman, first Black and first South Asian vice president-elect. But she will not be the first person of color to serve as vice president of the United States.

In 1928, Charles Curtis -- a Native American lawmaker and member of the Kaw Nation -- was elected as President Herbert Hoover's vice president.
Curtis grew up in North Topeka, Kansas, where he was born to a White father and a one-quarter Kaw Indian mother. He was the great-great grandson of White Plume, a Kaw chief known for offering to help the Lewis and Clark expedition in 1804, according to the US Senate.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

it is no secret that piece of shit wants things to end up in front of the supreme court so they can give itto him

This is what my trump supporting friends are absolutely certain will happen.

[Lathum]

100% of Trumpers think it will either go to him through recount or the courts.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

100% of Trumpers think it will either go to him through recount or the courts.

So what happens if they actually do?

[Butter]

As far as I'm aware, the only legitimate challenge on the table is the PA mail ballots, that may remove about 10k ballots from the count. Even that is very unlikely because it involves a rule that counties say they were already following even before Alito's ruling.

Biden leads by 43k votes there. He also doesn't have to have PA as long as AZ and GA hold up.

I have also heard that the PA decision by Alito was "setting up groundwork" to have the court give the election to Trump. But on what basis? They would literally have to overrule 4 state's results to do so on no basis right now, because there hasn't been any decisions that would rise to the dire level of needing emergency relief by the Court.

It's literally the last throes of a cult leader dragging his followers over the cliff of reality.

[larrymcg421]

Trump is still at .12 on Predict It.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

So what happens if they actually do?

Civil War.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Lathum

If he does this it becomes a clear dereliction of duty and I hope they invoke the 25th amendment and he is afforded no secret service protection.

Not one dime of taxpayer dollar should be spent on that.

Sounds like his first rally will be tomorrow night. They are all going to be in deep Trump red territory. Just insane: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-reporte...022114589.html

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

So what happens if they actually do?

I refuse to believe it would happen.

If it did would be the death of our democracy as we know it.

[larrymcg421]

One thing to think about with Trump increasing his base from 4 years ago is that many of the things he did to motivate his base also motivated his opposition. I think Biden ran a great campaign, but he was aided by an opponent so disliked by many that the Dems for once were able to stay on message and work together to defeat him.

[CrimsonFox]

Mr. Piece-of-shit,
TEAR...DOWN...THIS...WALL!

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

One thing to think about with Trump increasing his base from 4 years ago is that many of the things he did to motivate his base also motivated his opposition. I think Biden ran a great campaign, but he was aided by an opponent so disliked by many that the Dems for once were able to stay on message and work together to defeat him.

And that lasted until about 2 pm on Wednesday. It's so ridiculously hard to keep Dems from going at each other's throats.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Butter

As far as I'm aware, the only legitimate challenge on the table is the PA mail ballots, that may remove about 10k ballots from the count. Even that is very unlikely because it involves a rule that counties say they were already following even before Alito's ruling.

Biden leads by 43k votes there. He also doesn't have to have PA as long as AZ and GA hold up.

I have also heard that the PA decision by Alito was "setting up groundwork" to have the court give the election to Trump. But on what basis? They would literally have to overrule 4 state's results to do so on no basis right now, because there hasn't been any decisions that would rise to the dire level of needing emergency relief by the Court.

It's literally the last throes of a cult leader dragging his followers over the cliff of reality.

you are saying that republicans need a reason to shit on the country?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Butter

As far as I'm aware, the only legitimate challenge on the table is the PA mail ballots, that may remove about 10k ballots from the count. Even that is very unlikely because it involves a rule that counties say they were already following even before Alito's ruling.

Biden leads by 43k votes there. He also doesn't have to have PA as long as AZ and GA hold up.

I have also heard that the PA decision by Alito was "setting up groundwork" to have the court give the election to Trump. But on what basis? They would literally have to overrule 4 state's results to do so on no basis right now, because there hasn't been any decisions that would rise to the dire level of needing emergency relief by the Court.

It's literally the last throes of a cult leader dragging his followers over the cliff of reality.

My understanding is those ballots, ones postmarked on or before Election Day but received after Election Day, are already segregated and not in the count. Which means Trump is still way behind and those ballots are not going to swing the state in his direction even if they are counted which he doesn’t want even though he is losing.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I hope this is just Trump looking for attention otherwise this could quick start to be sedition and/or insurrection.

Election results – latest: Trump reportedly plans voter fraud rally tour across US as Biden begins transition

I hope he at least tunes his guitar

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Civil War.

how when democrats roll over faster than a puppy

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think Trump coasts to victory without the virus.

i would have said you are crazy if we were actually there...but seeing the results....omfg....it pains me

[Butter]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

My understanding is those ballots, ones postmarked on or before Election Day but received after Election Day, are already segregated and not in the count. Which means Trump is still way behind and those ballots are not going to swing the state in his direction even if they are counted which he doesn’t want even though he is losing.

MOST are segregated, but not all. It's not clear which ones aren't. Which is a problem, but minor

[RainMaker]

Nothing will come of the legal stuff. The problem for Trump is that he lost by a lot and would need to overturn the results in several states. It's just not happening. There is nothing they have filed that would come close to changing the results in even a single state.

The goal isn't to win, it's to appease Trump. The guy built his brand on being a "winner". This provides him an off-ramp of sorts to claim the election was stolen when he leaves. He wasn't a "loser" you see, it was the "deep state" and "democrats" and whatever else gets tossed into the fire.

Remember that this is nothing new for him. He claimed he really won the popular vote in 2016. He accused Cruz of rigging the Iowa caucus after losing. His brand is that he can't lose an election, it can only be stolen from him.

[bhlloy]

Which is great, but we’ve never had a losing candidate tell 48% of the voters that the election was stolen from them. Nobody expected Trump to gracefully concede and maybe this would have been the end result, but damn if it’s not utterly depressing and disheartening. And it just deepens the wounds... not sure how anybody could ever bring the country back together now.

[SirFozzie]

The legal maneuverings isn't going to change anything. It's performative theater for the true believers. I mean when a a judge asks a lawyer for the Trump Campaign (slight paraphrasing here, don't have the exact quote at hand)

Judge: Ok, I want you to answer this as a member of the bar of this state before this court. (*) Were there observers for the campaign of Donald Trump in the room as the votes were being counted?

(*=meaning, I expect the right answer here, no equivocations, or I will nail your hide to my wall as a warning to other lawyers not to bullshit me)

Lawyer: Yes.

Judge: “I’m sorry, then what’s your problem?”

reference: Judge dismisses Trump’s attempt to stop vote counting in Philly - WHYY

edit: https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/st...926977/photo/1 exact quote from person in the room.

folks thinking the supreme court are going to ride in and overturn MULTIPLE states results are deep in the bargaining/denial phase of the stages of guilt, or suffering from 2016 PTSD.

Would various members of the Supreme Court like to find a way to do so? I don't doubt it. But they are also smart enough to realize that doing so would not just end the judicial branch's neutrality, it would probably be the end of America

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

The legal maneuverings isn't going to change anything. It's performative theater for the true believers. I mean when a a judge asks a lawyer for the Trump Campaign (slight paraphrasing here, don't have the exact quote at hand)

Judge: Ok, I want you to answer this as a member of the bar of this state before this court. (*) Were there observers for the campaign of Donald Trump in the room as the votes were being counted?

(*=meaning, I expect the right answer here, no equivocations, or I will nail your hide to my wall as a warning to other lawyers not to bullshit me)

Lawyer: Yes.

Judge: “I’m sorry, then what’s your problem?”

reference: Judge dismisses Trump’s attempt to stop vote counting in Philly - WHYY

edit: https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/st...926977/photo/1 exact quote from person in the room.

folks thinking the supreme court are going to ride in and overturn MULTIPLE states results are deep in the bargaining/denial phase of the stages of guilt, or suffering from 2016 PTSD.

Would various members of the Supreme Court like to find a way to do so? I don't doubt it. But they are also smart enough to realize that doing so would not just end the judicial branch's neutrality, it would probably be the end of America

It’s not just performative theater for the true believers, but for Trump himself. They are largely filing these lawsuits for him. They need to placate his desire to be seen as a “fighter” and doing everything he can not to be a loser. It’s a lot of money, time and continued damage to the faith in our democratic institutions just to help cater to this pathetic man’s delicate, fragile little ego. It’s a part of the process to finally get him to a peaceful transfer of power.

[Flasch186]

...and start a Media empire catering to the deepest darkest extreme end beyond the normal GOP (GOP is dead - long live TGOP). Parler, OAN, etc are all a place of solace and respite from a world that has done them all wrong and won't listen to their crazed Q conspiracies. The most shocking thing to me is how many Christian Conservatives have dived into this. One day will they awake and find themselves surrounded by hatred and discrimination that they will realize how far away they've moved from the scripture?

[Ksyrup]

I'm assuming they will be filing lawsuits and/or complaints with state election boards today. Let's see what they file. I've seen a lot of allegations, and I've seen explanations for most of it.

I don't expect any of it to stick, but I'll admit I'm still curious about the dead people voting thing. The registered dead people thing isn't a concern because that's explained away and there's no evidence those people voted. I've seen snippets of evidence of dead people whose votes allegedly are verified as having been cast. I'll believe it when I see a lawyer stand behind it in court, and I don't believe there will be anywhere near enough to affect the election if there's some proof, but even if they find just a half-dozen verified votes, that's just going to fuel the fire for the cult. That's the bigger picture I'm more concerned about.

[Lathum]

My wifes cousin is screaming all over fqcebook to sign a petition to recount and revote.

I really want to ask her why she is surprised that a sitting president who virtually never got an approval over 50% would lose the election.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm assuming they will be filing lawsuits and/or complaints with state election boards today. Let's see what they file. I've seen a lot of allegations, and I've seen explanations for most of it.

I don't expect any of it to stick, but I'll admit I'm still curious about the dead people voting thing. The registered dead people thing isn't a concern because that's explained away and there's no evidence those people voted. I've seen snippets of evidence of dead people whose votes allegedly are verified as having been cast. I'll believe it when I see a lawyer stand behind it in court, and I don't believe there will be anywhere near enough to affect the election if there's some proof, but even if they find just a half-dozen verified votes, that's just going to fuel the fire for the cult. That's the bigger picture I'm more concerned about.

I'm sort of curious about the dead-voter thing, too. Indiana has a long and storied history of sucking at purging our voter lists. I get that it's one of those things that's hard to do because you don't want to disenfranchise anybody accidentally by being too vigorous with your cuts, and it's the sort of thing that makes for headlines with bad optics.

It's not really an issue here because up until 2020, we've never had a particularly robust mail-in voting system, so I'd sort of assumed that states like Washington(?) who have done it for a decade just built a bunch of best-practices into their design to handle keeping the voter registration system updated with the most current data to ease the vote counting process.

So most of my curiosity revolves around how other states made it work and where this election might expose gaps in that system.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm assuming they will be filing lawsuits and/or complaints with state election boards today. Let's see what they file. I've seen a lot of allegations, and I've seen explanations for most of it.

I don't expect any of it to stick, but I'll admit I'm still curious about the dead people voting thing. The registered dead people thing isn't a concern because that's explained away and there's no evidence those people voted. I've seen snippets of evidence of dead people whose votes allegedly are verified as having been cast. I'll believe it when I see a lawyer stand behind it in court, and I don't believe there will be anywhere near enough to affect the election if there's some proof, but even if they find just a half-dozen verified votes, that's just going to fuel the fire for the cult. That's the bigger picture I'm more concerned about.

I mean, if it's people who cast their ballot and then died before election day, it's not clear that those votes shouldn't count. Some states say they shouldn't - Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, South Dakota and Wisconsin. Others say they should count and some are unclear. However, it's not very clear that states even have a way of removing a ballot once they've found out someone has died.

If it's just general Democrats use thousands and thousands of dead people to vote for their candidate, well that's just crazy conspiracy nonsense. The Democrats aren't organized enough to pull that off.

[JPhillips]

Ok in a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional
mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote. This is where it gets good. The house/congress votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans.and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution and the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar even will take place. This is The law. This is why the Democrats are so mad at Nancy Pelosi. This will all happen in January. The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election and that will never happen So stop watching the fake news and don’t let your heart be troubled and live your life knowing this will all work out. President Trump will remain President I have researched all of this and it is Fact!
Another fun fact, they call Gore the President Elect for 30 days in 2000 until the courts ruled against him and declared Bush the winner. And two people that were part of that decision was none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed.

Man are they going to be disappointed when none of this happens.

[Drake]

Heh. I just realized reading my own post that I think about the process like a programmer.

1. Build a system, trying to account for as many variables as you can.
2. Do a bunch of regression testing to make sure your logic accounts for all of the knowns.
3. Expect that the "unknowns" are going to crop up when real users start interacting, and either fix them on the fly or in v2.0 depending on the severity.

Seems perfectly reasonable until you realize that getting elections right the first time is REALLY important.

[JPhillips]

OMG

The guy featured at the 4 Seasons Landscaping presser is a registered sex offender and the Four Seasons Hotel is close to a charter school.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Man are they going to be disappointed when none of this happens.

What delusional talking head is spewing that garbage you quoted? The straw grasping is unbelievable.

[spleen1015]

SCOTUS just gonna be like "Trump wins".

I was listening to Fox News yesterday and they had a Repub lawyer on who pretty much said there was a slim chance anything got over turned in PA and there was no chance of any of the other states get changed. So, get used to the idea of Biden being POTUS.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Man are they going to be disappointed when none of this happens.

The funniest part of that is they actually have one thing right - about Congress breaking a tie with each state getting one vote - but then make up some weird rule where it has to be down party lines.

[Lathum]

Not sure if this can be done, but if so the Biden campaign needs to file a lawsuit to get the Trump admin to immediately start cooperating with the Biden transition team so if the lawsuits go in Bidens favor he isn't staring behind the 8 ball.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I mean, if it's people who cast their ballot and then died before election day, it's not clear that those votes shouldn't count. Some states say they shouldn't - Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, South Dakota and Wisconsin. Others say they should count and some are unclear. However, it's not very clear that states even have a way of removing a ballot once they've found out someone has died.

If it's just general Democrats use thousands and thousands of dead people to vote for their candidate, well that's just crazy conspiracy nonsense. The Democrats aren't organized enough to pull that off.

No, these are people who died 20-30 years ago. If you believe the snippets of "evidence" I've seen being passed around the internet. I posted one of them way earlier in this thread, that *appeared* to verify a guy in MI who died in 1984 requested and sent back an absentee ballot. I assume this is the kind of evidence they claim to have.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not sure if this can be done, but if so the Biden campaign needs to file a lawsuit to get the Trump admin to immediately start cooperating with the Biden transition team so if the lawsuits go in Bidens favor he isn't staring behind the 8 ball.

I am not sure that they want to start the bothsides narrative of "competing lawsuits" yet.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Man are they going to be disappointed when none of this happens.

Isn't that the same strategy that multiple people called out several months ago? I know I read a couple of articles saying "Here's what they are going to do once they've lost." None of this is exactly unknown.