Injury setting (Realism vs. Fun)

Northwood_DK · 11-25-2006, 04:23 AM

Another thing we need to address sooner or later is the injury setting. I guess most people now accept that 200 is the correct injury setting if you want to mirror the NFL. But I also think that most would agree that is not the best solution for a MP league.

I’m not sure if anyone have had the time to do enough testing to get a clear picture of injuries in FOF07 so I guess we will be making our pick mostly based on the experiences we had with FOF04.

To get things started I suggest we start the league with an injury setting of 125.

Ben E Lou · 11-25-2006, 04:31 AM

I figured we'd save this discussion for when we have 32.

While I prefer a higher setting, my suggestion is that we don't start above 100 unless we do extensive testing, and have complete sign-off from everyone that they will not complain excessively about the injury setting. Maybe a long discussion, followed by a multiple choice poll that allows you to select all of the injury settings you'd be comfortable with, and we settle on the one that has the most votes.

Northwood_DK · 11-25-2006, 04:42 AM

I absolutely agree that we don’t make any decision until we have all 32 owners and a Commish in place. On the other hand is this one of the things that can create endless grief if we don’t get it right. I just wanted to kick-start the long discussion now so we get time to think about it and don’t rush to a conclusion when we get all man aboard and want get the league started.

Narcizo · 11-25-2006, 06:11 AM

SkyDog has suggested that injuries may have been tweaked in the latest patch so I'd have to look at that. However, given the level playing field (arf!) in turf quality I have nothing against the injury level being set high. My opposition to it in other leagues has been centred on how a high injury setting targets whichever poor schmuck gets Minnesota's concrete astroturf in 2004. Anything over 125 works for me.

Ben E Lou · 11-25-2006, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo

SkyDog has suggested that injuries may have been tweaked in the latest patch so I'd have to look at that.

I retract that statement, but I stand by the statement that with a level playing field, injuries are lower than in past versions. Everyone gets VG turf to start out, and the option (should they choose) to build a new one or renovate from the start. It's definitely a whole new ball game.

gstelmack · 11-25-2006, 10:59 AM

I think I've mentioned it another thread before, but the primary issue to me with injury setting is not the number of injuries, but the severity. I have a 2k4 league going with the setting at 50 and had 3 guys get hit with career-ending (30+ drops in future) in one season. That's the killer and can really destroy your drafting and FA efforts to build a team. What we need is an injury analysis on 2k7 to check how many injuries, what the lengths are, and how guys are affected.

I don't mind lots of multi-week injuries, but if going above 100 means even MORE players retiring early in 2k7, I'd rather keep it low.

Ben E Lou · 11-25-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I think I've mentioned it another thread before, but the primary issue to me with injury setting is not the number of injuries, but the severity. I have a 2k4 league going with the setting at 50 and had 3 guys get hit with career-ending (30+ drops in future) in one season. That's the killer and can really destroy your drafting and FA efforts to build a team. What we need is an injury analysis on 2k7 to check how many injuries, what the lengths are, and how guys are affected.

I don't mind lots of multi-week injuries, but if going above 100 means even MORE players retiring early in 2k7, I'd rather keep it low.

I don't have a good feel yet for CEI's in 2K7, but I can say that I've only seen four or five on my team in my 10-year career (at 200). Granted, I do a lot to manage injuries. I do know this: starting off with all VG stadiums (with the option for immediate upgrades) makes a pretty big difference.

Dutch · 11-25-2006, 01:05 PM

I'm seeing pretty big injuries @ 150 in FOF2k7 that *appear* to be more severe even than in FOF2k4. But no data worth showing here...

Eaglesfan27 · 11-25-2006, 02:03 PM

I've had two Career Ending Injuries in the first year of my career with Injuries at 150, but in both cases I took a chance and brought a guy back early who had a concussion. Throughout the entire league (discounting the two guys I took a chance on), I've seen 2 or 3 career ending injuries/year that weren't related to concussions with injuries at 150, but I have a small data sample.

SackAttack · 11-25-2006, 07:42 PM

My preference would be for 100. I'd grudgingly accept 125, but anything over that and I will reserve the right to complain!

Dutch · 11-26-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

My preference would be for 100. I'd grudgingly accept 125, but anything over that and I will reserve the right to complain!

Narcizo · 11-26-2006, 06:30 AM

The thing with 2007 is that careers are over more quickly anyway (don't play a vet for a season or two and he might as well retire) so I don't actually think CEIs are quite as disastrous as they were in 2004. And as SkyDog pointed out Very Good turf and the possibility for upgrade ought to really help, compared to SP games were turf quality is, presumably, varied.

I can't think of anything more mind-numbing than trying to track injuries throughout a season but if someone wants to undertake that then good luck to them.

Ben E Lou · 11-26-2006, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

My preference would be for 100. I'd grudgingly accept 125, but anything over that and I will reserve the right to complain!

One of the things I hoped for in putting this group together was a whine-free league. I would hope that if the rest of the league decides we want a higher injury setting, that you'd be willing to take it like a man.

Flasch186 · 11-26-2006, 07:52 AM

Id say 200 but thats just me.

Narcizo · 11-26-2006, 01:55 PM

Well, and SkyDog.

SackAttack · 11-26-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

One of the things I hoped for in putting this group together was a whine-free league. I would hope that if the rest of the league decides we want a higher injury setting, that you'd be willing to take it like a man.

Lighten up, Francis.

I would hope the exclamation point was enough to get the lighthearted tone of the post across.

Icy · 11-26-2006, 03:22 PM

150 could be a good spot between realism and fun.

CraigSca · 11-26-2006, 05:34 PM

I'm cool with 100 or so, but I'd be willing to go with whatever the group decides as it's really not important to me.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-26-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy

150 could be a good spot between realism and fun.

This would be my preference.

TredWel · 11-26-2006, 06:37 PM

I have to admit, I'm kinda curious to see how a MP league with an injury setting of 200 would work out. If anything, I would imagine it would act as a way to increase randomness and add more parity to the league over the long haul. Midseason Free Agency grabs would probably be more contested as well.

I'm not that I'm necessarily for or against a setting of 200 (most of my FOF experience comes with injuries at 100), but I think it would make for some interesting times.

Emiliano · 11-27-2006, 10:01 AM

150 is a good choice for me as well, but an higher/lower setting is fine too.

VPI97 · 11-27-2006, 12:22 PM

100 is probably the best setting for a good balance of fun v realism.

11-25-2006, 04:31 AM	#2
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I figured we'd save this discussion for when we have 32. While I prefer a higher setting, my suggestion is that we don't start above 100 unless we do extensive testing, and have complete sign-off from everyone that they will not complain excessively about the injury setting. Maybe a long discussion, followed by a multiple choice poll that allows you to select all of the injury settings you'd be comfortable with, and we settle on the one that has the most votes. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-25-2006, 04:42 AM	#3
Northwood_DK College Benchwarmer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Back in Norway	I absolutely agree that we don’t make any decision until we have all 32 owners and a Commish in place. On the other hand is this one of the things that can create endless grief if we don’t get it right. I just wanted to kick-start the long discussion now so we get time to think about it and don’t rush to a conclusion when we get all man aboard and want get the league started. Last edited by Northwood_DK : 11-25-2006 at 04:42 AM.

11-25-2006, 10:59 AM	#6
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	I think I've mentioned it another thread before, but the primary issue to me with injury setting is not the number of injuries, but the severity. I have a 2k4 league going with the setting at 50 and had 3 guys get hit with career-ending (30+ drops in future) in one season. That's the killer and can really destroy your drafting and FA efforts to build a team. What we need is an injury analysis on 2k7 to check how many injuries, what the lengths are, and how guys are affected. I don't mind lots of multi-week injuries, but if going above 100 means even MORE players retiring early in 2k7, I'd rather keep it low. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

11-25-2006, 02:03 PM	#9
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I've had two Career Ending Injuries in the first year of my career with Injuries at 150, but in both cases I took a chance and brought a guy back early who had a concussion. Throughout the entire league (discounting the two guys I took a chance on), I've seen 2 or 3 career ending injuries/year that weren't related to concussions with injuries at 150, but I have a small data sample. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

11-26-2006, 07:52 AM	#14
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	Id say 200 but thats just me. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

11-25-2006, 06:11 AM	#4
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	SkyDog has suggested that injuries may have been tweaked in the latest patch so I'd have to look at that. However, given the level playing field (arf!) in turf quality I have nothing against the injury level being set high. My opposition to it in other leagues has been centred on how a high injury setting targets whichever poor schmuck gets Minnesota's concrete astroturf in 2004. Anything over 125 works for me.

11-25-2006, 01:05 PM	#8
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I'm seeing pretty big injuries @ 150 in FOF2k7 that appear to be more severe even than in FOF2k4. But no data worth showing here...

11-25-2006, 07:42 PM	#10
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	My preference would be for 100. I'd grudgingly accept 125, but anything over that and I will reserve the right to complain!

11-26-2006, 06:30 AM	#12
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	The thing with 2007 is that careers are over more quickly anyway (don't play a vet for a season or two and he might as well retire) so I don't actually think CEIs are quite as disastrous as they were in 2004. And as SkyDog pointed out Very Good turf and the possibility for upgrade ought to really help, compared to SP games were turf quality is, presumably, varied. I can't think of anything more mind-numbing than trying to track injuries throughout a season but if someone wants to undertake that then good luck to them.

11-26-2006, 01:55 PM	#15
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Well, and SkyDog.

11-26-2006, 03:22 PM	#17
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	150 could be a good spot between realism and fun. __________________

11-26-2006, 05:34 PM	#18
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	I'm cool with 100 or so, but I'd be willing to go with whatever the group decides as it's really not important to me. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

11-26-2006, 06:37 PM	#20
TredWel High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Old Forge, PA	I have to admit, I'm kinda curious to see how a MP league with an injury setting of 200 would work out. If anything, I would imagine it would act as a way to increase randomness and add more parity to the league over the long haul. Midseason Free Agency grabs would probably be more contested as well. I'm not that I'm necessarily for or against a setting of 200 (most of my FOF experience comes with injuries at 100), but I think it would make for some interesting times. __________________ There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people...religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin. - Linus Van Pelt

11-27-2006, 10:01 AM	#21
Emiliano College Prospect Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nuremberg, Germany	150 is a good choice for me as well, but an higher/lower setting is fine too. __________________ Xbox Live&PSN: Emiliano81 GM of the Rome Gladiators in the WOOF

11-27-2006, 12:22 PM	#22
VPI97 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kennesaw, GA	100 is probably the best setting for a good balance of fun v realism. __________________ CT & Jivin - "Surprisingly Entertaining"

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