Werewolf XXI - Werewolf goes to Hollywood - Game Over!! Death Eaters win!!

[Neon_Chaos]

Sorry bout the dola dola dola dola posting. Brain's working on overdrive as I'm going back on each and every post... I'm missing some things, but I'm posting the obviously dubious things that I have seen. I want the Good Wizards to win so bad... and I feel that I have a solid read on the servants of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, specially since they tried so hard to push for the tie and save SnDvls.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

As it is, I am pretty downright sure that Alan T and Path 12 are Death Eaters

My suspected as Death Eater list:
Alan T
Path12
Mr. Wednesday
Grammaticus
KWhit

Needs to be checked:
dubb93

This time around.. I'll wait for the crowd to see where things are going and not listen to my own instincts .. problem is, any late theories will be difficult to follow since I'm asleep for the final 4-5 hours of every vote-turn.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Sorry bout the dola dola dola dola posting. Brain's working on overdrive as I'm going back on each and every post... I'm missing some things, but I'm posting the obviously dubious things that I have seen. I want the Good Wizards to win so bad... and I feel that I have a solid read on the servants of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, specially since they tried so hard to push for the tie and save SnDvls.

No offense, but I think you are probably accusing strongly alot of people who are not DEs.

The facts of it are, when 10 people vote for a guy, I have a pretty good guess that a high percentage of the remaining DEs did vote for Wvufan. I wouldn't be shocked if at least one didnt toss a vote somewhere else meaningless to hide, but from the sounds of things, svufan was a good guy for them to try to save, he seemed fairly powerful from the description.

My voting list probably would have to be to analyze those that voted for svufan during the day too. As for saving my own name, well.. I know how this works.. no matter what folks say its still just if you believe them or not. I stand by the fact that I gave my strategy from the get go based on what Blade had said the day before, before any reveals, before we even saw who's head was on the block.

I felt this early in the game if you can nab a DE on a lynch vote at the cost of 1 villager (even if its me), its worth it. I don't have any huge role or anything thats going to save the village probably so if you want to come after me, it won't kill us.

That said, I still feel the same as the day before, if you can rig a tie up or something else that helps clear additional wizards in a lynch vote, its worth it. (even at the cost of my death today). Of course I would love for someone to be able to clear me somehow, but either way I hope we keep trying to make the circle of trust as large as possible through confirming known wizards as well as we can. Right now we still only have 2 confirmed good guys, it would have been nice to make it 3 or 4.

[dacman]

**Does happy dance**

[Coder]

Originally Posted by dacman

**Does happy dance**

Normally that would become an instant lynch-list addition right there, but I'm waiting a while.

[st.cronin]

I am not getting NEARLY enough credit for this. It was me that picked SnDvls as a suspect and drew out his silly story!

Go team!

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I am not getting NEARLY enough credit for this. It was me that picked SnDvls as a suspect and drew out his silly story!

Go team!

Well, *I've* got you on my 100% trusted list. I was initially a bit suspicious even after Neon cleared you, but with SunnyD going down as the seer-blocking wolf, you are absolutely a-ok with me.

Alan and Gram are in my sights once things start up today.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Well, *I've* got you on my 100% trusted list. I was initially a bit suspicious even after Neon cleared you, but with SunnyD going down as the seer-blocking wolf, you are absolutely a-ok with me.

Alan and Gram are in my sights once things start up today.

No, I realize most everybody knows I'm a wizard now. But as cogent and coherent as Neon's prosecution was, I think I should at least get an assist for the initial vote and drawing out the lame defense.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

No, I realize most everybody knows I'm a wizard now. But as cogent and coherent as Neon's prosecution was, I think I should at least get an assist for the initial vote and drawing out the lame defense.

Here. Have a ham.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Here. Have a ham.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I am not getting NEARLY enough credit for this. It was me that picked SnDvls as a suspect and drew out his silly story!

Go team!

You are 100% cleared in my book, so what more credit do you need? As far as IDing Sun, you have not given any real reason why other than random guess, so good guess!

I give it to Neon for identifying the mistake in Sun’s post. I credit the tie push as keeping Sun on the hot seat with hope of survival that kept him talking in order to make the mistake.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No offense, but I think you are probably accusing strongly alot of people who are not DEs.

The facts of it are, when 10 people vote for a guy, I have a pretty good guess that a high percentage of the remaining DEs did vote for Wvufan. I wouldn't be shocked if at least one didnt toss a vote somewhere else meaningless to hide, but from the sounds of things, svufan was a good guy for them to try to save, he seemed fairly powerful from the description.

My voting list probably would have to be to analyze those that voted for svufan during the day too. As for saving my own name, well.. I know how this works.. no matter what folks say its still just if you believe them or not. I stand by the fact that I gave my strategy from the get go based on what Blade had said the day before, before any reveals, before we even saw who's head was on the block.

I felt this early in the game if you can nab a DE on a lynch vote at the cost of 1 villager (even if its me), its worth it. I don't have any huge role or anything thats going to save the village probably so if you want to come after me, it won't kill us.

That said, I still feel the same as the day before, if you can rig a tie up or something else that helps clear additional wizards in a lynch vote, its worth it. (even at the cost of my death today). Of course I would love for someone to be able to clear me somehow, but either way I hope we keep trying to make the circle of trust as large as possible through confirming known wizards as well as we can. Right now we still only have 2 confirmed good guys, it would have been nice to make it 3 or 4.

Death Eater.

[st.cronin]

After night actions are posted, I'm going to go back and tab the votes in order, like I did for day 1.

[st.cronin]

By the way, I also guessed that Sun was an occulemen or however you spell that!

[Grammaticus]

Was the deadline for night actions 9:30am?

[Neon_Chaos]

The push for a tie was crap. I would not push for a tie when I catch someone in an obvious lie. I've run a lot of WW games, and settling for a tie instead of nailing a liar is a NO-NO.

Kudos to st.cronin for pushing SnDvls to come up with that story.

[Neon_Chaos]

st. cronin, most of the early votes were moot. I'd suggest you check my list of suspects... seems like they're highly careful not to implicate each other... even aboiding talking about my list (or calling it a massive accusation of innocents).

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

The push for a tie was crap. I would not push for a tie when I catch someone in an obvious lie. I've run a lot of WW games, and settling for a tie instead of nailing a liar is a NO-NO.

Especially when we don't know of any tiebreaking procedures that would clear anybody.

[Neon_Chaos]

Oh, and check how they reacted when I was already saying that SnDvls was lying, most of them were playing dumb.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

The push for a tie was crap. I would not push for a tie when I catch someone in an obvious lie. I've run a lot of WW games, and settling for a tie instead of nailing a liar is a NO-NO.

Kudos to st.cronin for pushing SnDvls to come up with that story.

Well, I have not played in a lot of WW games and it looked like a strong option to me. It also took time for people to digest the lie. I mean who the heck ever heard of these words prior to this game? We still cannot even agree on whether you can do the appear / disappear within the village or “into” the village.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Especially when we don't know of any tiebreaking procedures that would clear anybody.

I do

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

By the way, I also guessed that Sun was an occulemen or however you spell that!

We do have a ham. Actually you suggested the possibility (very good suggestion) and I am the only one that brought it up a second and third time in order to keep the thought on the table.

[dacman]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well, I have not played in a lot of WW games and it looked like a strong option to me. It also took time for people to digest the lie. I mean who the heck ever heard of these words prior to this game? We still cannot even agree on whether you can do the appear / disappear within the village or “into” the village.

I have not read one word of a HP book. I have not seen one minute of a HP movie. I understood perfectly well that SnDvls was lying. Are you seriously saying you didn't?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

We do have a ham.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Well, I have not played in a lot of WW games and it looked like a strong option to me. It also took time for people to digest the lie. I mean who the heck ever heard of these words prior to this game? We still cannot even agree on whether you can do the appear / disappear within the village or “into” the village.

Come on. That's why I even posted a Wikipedia reference on Apparition that explained my argument. I was explaining why SnDvls' lie was bullshit and most everyone just said "Let's not listen to the guy who we know is innocent (and is outright, in bold-capitalized letters, saying that the other guy was lying), let's see if this guy is lying or not... let's go for a tie!"

[dacman]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Oh, and check how they reacted when I was already saying that SnDvls was lying, most of them were playing dumb.

But what's more suspicious? Playing dumb or trying to force a tie at the last possible minute? Did anyone do both?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Death Eater.

You are like my ex-wife. Being prideful is great and all, but you'll make a mistake too just like I did yesterday. I asked questions about why you said he was in a lie, and you said I was playing dumb, insulted me and called me names. I won't resort to that in just a game, but once you finally explained what I was asking, you already had your mind made up about me.

I've said what i had to, and go off what you want. I've had the exact same voting strategy for two days now, and have not changed from that despite who was involved. If you want to hold my lack of knowledge of Harry potter against me for asking questions, thats fine. Just don't insult me anymore, or I will take you off my christmas card list

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Even with me practically going insane poitning out the obvious flaw in his story that my suspect-list can't seem to "figure out"? Right.

I was weighing the inconsistencies you pointed out in his claim against my failure to understand why a DE would be doing a fake reveal at this point. It doesn't help that I've seen real early reveals that are thought to be fake hurt the villagers before, so I was perhaps more credulous than I should have been.

I was at least a lot less certain I had made the right decision after I read your arguments.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Come on. That's why I even posted a Wikipedia reference on Apparition that explained my argument. I was explaining why SnDvls' lie was bullshit and most everyone just said "Let's not listen to the guy who we know is innocent (and is outright, in bold-capitalized letters, saying that the other guy was lying), let's see if this guy is lying or not... let's go for a tie!"

Sure, you posted it along with insults and calling me names. You had your mind made up about me before you even explained what you were talking about to me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by dacman

I have not read one word of a HP book. I have not seen one minute of a HP movie. I understood perfectly well that SnDvls was lying. Are you seriously saying you didn't?

Thats what I was saying, until Neon explained it out to me in the middle of his insults , thats when I finally understood what he was trying to say, but supposedly I was playing dumb, so whatever

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by dacman

But what's more suspicious? Playing dumb or trying to force a tie at the last possible minute? Did anyone do both?

Players who did both:

Alan T
Path12
Mr. Wednesday
Grammaticus
KWhit

Explanations are in previous posts.

Alan T: I'm not calling you names. I'm just calling you for what I believe you are. I might be wrong, but your voting pattern and strategy point to you being a Death Eater. That's all. Death Eater.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by dacman

I have not read one word of a HP book. I have not seen one minute of a HP movie. I understood perfectly well that SnDvls was lying. Are you seriously saying you didn't?

I believed Neon, that is why Superman’s vote outcome stood.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Players who did both:

Alan T
Path12
Mr. Wednesday
Grammaticus
KWhit

Explanations are in previous posts.

Alan T: I'm not calling you names. I'm just calling you for what I believe you are. I might be wrong, but your voting pattern and strategy point to you being a Death Eater. That's all. Death Eater.

I disagree, reread my posts. I was not playing dumb. I wanted a tie to validate a player and still deal with Sun tomorrow.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Sure, you posted it along with insults and calling me names. You had your mind made up about me before you even explained what you were talking about to me.

No I didn't. I already posted my explanations about 2 hours before deadline. You then voted for WVU, despite the evidence I posted. I then added you to my suspect list. And that's about it.

Not going for the right vote just because you got your feelings hurt is a feeble reason.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Players who did both:

Alan T
Path12
Mr. Wednesday
Grammaticus
KWhit

Explanations are in previous posts.

Alan T: I'm not calling you names. I'm just calling you for what I believe you are. I might be wrong, but your voting pattern and strategy point to you being a Death Eater. That's all. Death Eater.

Well, after you get everyone to lynch me today, I expect an apology

I don't think my behavior changed any though from day 1 to day 2. All we wanted to do was to go along with what Blade had suggested us try to tie it up. He seemed very confident there were good tiebreakers who we could clear.

Worst case scenerio was if there was no tie-breaker, the rules clearly said Sundvls would have lost in a tie. Either way, like I said before I don't have any huge great role to save the village or keep anyone alive or anything, and am not about to start creating some fabrication to stay alive. I stand by my reasoning, very clearly I was wrong and if I have to pay for it, so be it.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by dacman

But what's more suspicious? Playing dumb or trying to force a tie at the last possible minute? Did anyone do both?

You will thank me for even making this an issue that got us the vote logic to review.

[Neon_Chaos]

Alright Gramm.

HOW EXACTLY CAN WE VALIDATE A PLAYER DURING A TIE?

[st.cronin]

We're still in Night, so I don't want to get too in depth, but I think we may be on the wrong track with Alan T. I have a couple of other suspects I would like to examine after the night is finished.

[Poli]

Woohoo!!!!

10 hours, 100 posts later!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

No I didn't. I already posted my explanations about 2 hours before deadline. You then voted for WVU, despite the evidence I posted. I then added you to my suspect list. And that's about it.

Not going for the right vote just because you got your feelings hurt is a feeble reason.

Bleh, I didnt get my feelings hurt. I already said many times that I thought we should do as Blade suggested and force a tie. Worst case, there were no tie breakers, Blade was wrong, and Sundvls would have still died via the rules that said since he got his lynch vote first he dies. You have your mind made up about me, so be it. Im talking to a brick wall here.

[Neon_Chaos]

I see saldana.

don't forget... if I die, please validate dubb93! he could be your worst enemy or your strongest ally... he's that... damn... good!

[dacman]

By last minute I meant last minute.

path12 and Mr. W voted for WVUFan at like 11:59pm. Those 2 need to explain themselves or I'm going after them.

I was 100% sold after reading Neon's stuff (hell I was 90% sold by Coffee's initial point). Mr. W you were less certain? LESS???? LOL.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Alright Gramm.

HOW EXACTLY CAN WE VALIDATE A PLAYER DURING A TIE?

If we have a good wizard with the ability to break a tie, when they stand up to do so in public, it could publically clear them as a good wizard for everyone. Thats one additional person to add in our circle of trust. You can still get the vote you want to achieve by killing the person you want, plus validate another villager, it would be a win-win.

[Neon_Chaos]

st. cro, go with your gut man. keep the fight alive.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Alright Gramm.

HOW EXACTLY CAN WE VALIDATE A PLAYER DURING A TIE?

See who has a role that can break it.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by dacman

By last minute I meant last minute.

path12 and Mr. W voted for WVUFan at like 11:59pm. Those 2 need to explain themselves or I'm going after them.

I just reread that. BOTH of them post at like identical times right before the bell saying identical things, and power out lightning votes for WVUfan to attempt to force a tie.

That very well may be stretching coincidence there.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Alan T

If we have a good wizard with the ability to break a tie, when they stand up to do so in public, it could publically clear them as a good wizard for everyone. Thats one additional person to add in our circle of trust. You can still get the vote you want to achieve by killing the person you want, plus validate another villager, it would be a win-win.

Wrong. That's one less secret role that the wolves have to worry about and an additional person for the wolves to kill easily. After wolves kill him, you're back at square one... one wasted day vote, when you could have lynched the liar.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Wrong. That's one less secret role that the wolves have to worry about and an additional person for the wolves to kill easily. After wolves kill him, you're back at square one... one wasted day vote, when you could have lynched the liar.

I wouldn't think that someone who used their tiebreaker up already would be a huge target for the wolves though and it would give us one less person to be suspicious of.

[Neon_Chaos]

what kind of werewolf are we playing!?!? reveal the secret roles for the wolves to kill them so we can run out of them!?

secret roles are there to be used at opportune moments, and not to be weeded out by the very villagers they're supposed to protect!

And CW: path12 and Mr. W are highly dubious indeed. I posted in an earlier post of why I think they're death eaters.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

still cannot even agree on whether you can do the appear / disappear within the village or “into” the village.

We cannot....

and that was my real mistake when latching on to Sun's story. I re-read the rules AFTER I had made my initial point that the jinx could keep deatheaters from apparating into Neon's house if Sun was there with the jinx, and was confused (post #655).. then I read up on the spell again at Wikipedia and found out that it can also be used to bind an enemy and was used in conjunction with shielding-spells.. it was 2 a.m then, and I couldn't think straight.. I went to sleep thinking that I was right and that Sun was ok..

Then this morning when I woke up I immediately checked to see how things had gone and was very stumped to find out he was a liar.. Not to mention the complete embarrasment of finding Neon's posts from BEFORE I started jumping up and down qouting books etc, stating exactly what the said spell was all about.