Response to PM's

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I think I've made that fairly clear already: WW players got singled out, and it's bullshit.

Pay more attention.

WW players got singled out, just like Hattrickers, Dynasty writers, IHOF players, FOF multiplayer matchmakers, PC/Console gamers, etc. Forgive me if I don't shed a tear that got moved to your own forum - you can still play and you can still adverstise new games on the General Discussion board. Are people so pampered now in the internet age that they bitch because they have to click a link or two to get to something they like, or have to add a new bookmark to go directly there?

The only point I can see as being valid is the complaint that posts in the Hattrick forum and the posts here are not handled the same in terms of post counts - either both should count or neither should count.

Do you not follow the logic Bucc and I have provided on why SkyDog might consider WW posts and other posts as different?

[st.cronin]

I'm actually pretty excited about the new forum. Expect to see less of me in GD, though.

[hoopsguy]

Actually, the forum that will likely get none of my time at this point is the Dynasty forum. I wasn't a huge participant there but I had started a couple of dynasties, participate in others, and read along with a number of them. But it is a bit of a nuisance to switch between multiple forums. I expect I'll still visit GD quite a bit, participate from time to time, but instead of checking it ten times a day I'll be checking it a couple of times a day.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

WW players got singled out, just like Hattrickers, Dynasty writers, IHOF players, FOF multiplayer matchmakers, PC/Console gamers, etc. Forgive me if I don't shed a tear that got moved to your own forum - you can still play and you can still adverstise new games on the General Discussion board. Are people so pampered now in the internet age that they bitch because they have to click a link or two to get to something they like, or have to add a new bookmark to go directly there?

How many of those forums were created because they were taking up too much realestate on the main forum and how many were created because the content was considered worth less than other content?

The only point I can see as being valid is the complaint that posts in the Hattrick forum and the posts here are not handled the same in terms of post counts - either both should count or neither should count.

I agree that is one aspect, but I think there is more to it than that. Werewolf is a changing and evolving game much like the various IWS, HorN, and Enigma games. They do much better when they are visible and can draw new players who see the interest the games often show. Moving WW to its own forum is a good way to ensure that only current players follow the games and there is a good chance that they will become boring and stale without new people

Do you not follow the logic Bucc and I have provided on why SkyDog might consider WW posts and other posts as different?

I follow it, I just don't agree with it.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

How many of those forums were created because they were taking up too much realestate on the main forum and how many were created because the content was considered worth less than other content?

I guess I missed the part where SkyDog said WW threads were moving to their own forum because they are "considered worth less than other content".

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I think I've made that fairly clear already: WW players got singled out, and it's bullshit.

Pay more attention.

Also, I guess I didn't make myself clear enough - I know that you're upset because you feel like WW players got singled out and you think it's bullshit - I just don't get why this is something you allow yourself to feel upset over.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Add me to the list who think it sucks to single out Jeeber, just because he has the most posts. I think there are several people who frequently post that I don't care one way or the other about their thoughts - Jeeber is not in that category.

I have a few jumbled thoughts on this whole process but I think I would rather take a few days to process them before spewing them in this thread.

I think I'm with hoops on this. I'm still not sure what to think of it all. I want to make sure I have all the facts as well.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Norfolk, yech. Stationed there, not fun.

Sorry to threadjack further, but I'll probably be there in mid-December as well for a few days for another conference.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Sorry to threadjack further, but I'll probably be there in mid-December as well for a few days for another conference.

Well, I can give you ideas of stuff to do potentially, depending on where you are, what you have for transportation, etc..

Probably can't make it out there as December is a bad time for me though...

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I guess I missed the part where SkyDog said WW threads were moving to their own forum because they are "considered worth less than other content".

He moved the threads specifically to decrease post counts. This means that he puts a value on them and these threads aren't worth counting toward that. He didn't move the threads because they were taking up too much space or because they were blocking out other posts, he moved them because they were creating inflated counts and he didn't think that was right.

My bigger complaint is the added hassle of moving between boards, being made to feel like we need to be moved away somewhere and not be part of the main community and the likely damage to the game as a whole with new people not being drawn to the game.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Sorry to threadjack further, but I'll probably be there in mid-December as well for a few days for another conference.

Well, I should clarify. I was stationed there, thankfully no longer. I will be flying into that area December 17th or so, though. Then a nice bus ride to South Carolina to turn in all my Army of One gear that I haven't touched since the 2nd to last day in South Carolina.

[Poli]

I will say that, based on my experience, Hattrick/FOFC has never been the same since the sub-forum. We, hattrick users on FOFC, just don't see new people from FOFC joining our ranks like we once did.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I will say that, based on my experience, Hattrick/FOFC has never been the same since the sub-forum. We, hattrick users on FOFC, just don't see new people from FOFC joining our ranks like we once did.

i actually went to the hattrick forum for the first time last night...i havent got the slightest idea what it even is, or how to play....i just wanted to see who was active there and try and find a primer to see what it was about...something i most likely would have already known if it was in GD

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Well, I can give you ideas of stuff to do potentially, depending on where you are, what you have for transportation, etc..

Probably can't make it out there as December is a bad time for me though...

Right now I'm not sure what free time we'll have. I haven't received an agenda yet nor have we decided who is going; well, I'm going for sure but depending on who else is going with me will depend on how many breakout discussions and whatnot I'll have to attend. I'll keep this in mind...although I have a tendency to bring my 360 along and play that in my free time since I'm away from the family.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

He moved the threads specifically to decrease post counts. This means that he puts a value on them and these threads aren't worth counting toward that. He didn't move the threads because they were taking up too much space or because they were blocking out other posts, he moved them because they were creating inflated counts and he didn't think that was right.

Hmmm, OK - I guess I didn't read it the same way, that moving the threads to a new forum was just about being able to turn off the post counts.

My bigger complaint is the added hassle of moving between boards, being made to feel like we need to be moved away somewhere and not be part of the main community and the likely damage to the game as a whole with new people not being drawn to the game.

OK, so you have to click a link to get here from the main forum or you keep another browser tab open specifically to this forum - I don't see where this is a hassle for someone.

Regarding the game not drawing as many participants as before, we'll have to see - as others have pointed out, you now have freedom to have as many WW games going at once as you like and I believe I saw another post saying modding decisions for the games will now be easier as well. You can still advertise your games on the GD forum. Maybe the games will wither, and maybe it will be solely because of the move. Time will tell on that one.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Right now I'm not sure what free time we'll have. I haven't received an agenda yet nor have we decided who is going; well, I'm going for sure but depending on who else is going with me will depend on how many breakout discussions and whatnot I'll have to attend. I'll keep this in mind...although I have a tendency to bring my 360 along and play that in my free time since I'm away from the family.

The one time I travelled with my PS2 I got burned because the hotel TV had A/V ports disabled, so I don't do that anymore...

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Hmmm, OK - I guess I didn't read it the same way, that moving the threads to a new forum was just about being able to turn off the post counts.

In re-reading the first post of this thread, I think SkyDog was very clear to not give a reason for the move other than it being the #1 complaint. But look at the results. Since new signups and player-needed threads still go in GD, exactly one thread at a time was moved. There is no savings there. It is true that this might spawn more games and could even improve the WW experience, but there was nothing actually changed by the move other than the fact that post counts were changed. He also made other comments about WW posts artifically inflating post counts. You really can't claim any other purpose since nobody involved asked for the move. He wasn't doing it to give the WW players anything extra.

OK, so you have to click a link to get here from the main forum or you keep another browser tab open specifically to this forum - I don't see where this is a hassle for someone.

It is a minor hassle regarding clicks. The bigger issue (and it is only slightly bigger) is that I now have to actively look for new threads/posts. I can't just hit F5 and see everything that is new. I was part of the WW community and the general community at the same time. It is kind of like being in a sports bar with 2 TVs showing 2 different games vs being in one with different rooms for each game. The hassle of moving is minor, but it has a feeling of two distinct communities.

Regarding the game not drawing as many participants as before, we'll have to see - as others have pointed out, you now have freedom to have as many WW games going at once as you like and I believe I saw another post saying modding decisions for the games will now be easier as well. You can still advertise your games on the GD forum. Maybe the games will wither, and maybe it will be solely because of the move. Time will tell on that one.

It is very possible that some good may come out of this. It is also possible that this will be the best thing to happen to WW games. For someone like me who isn't a die-hard WW player but who does like to mix in a few games along with the rest of the general discussion, it is a bit of a pain. I would be less unhappy if someone asked for this, but to have it forced on us makes me unhappy.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I just don't get why this is something you allow yourself to feel upset over.

I am honestly not that upset about it, but I feel like the WW community is getting crapped on. This group of people contain individuals that I consider friends, and I always stick up for my friends, even at the expense of looking like a tool.

[Poli]

Tool or not, you can watch my back.