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Old 04-02-2024, 08:06 AM   #501
stevew
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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox View Post
I've never heard of Vontae Davis. Anyone? anyone?

He retired in the middle of a game.
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Old 04-02-2024, 08:15 AM   #502
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He retired in the middle of a game.

Colts traded a second round pick for him and he turned out to be a very good player for a couple years.
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Old 04-02-2024, 08:19 AM   #503
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I saw a Twitter post claiming that under some proprietary metric, he had the greatest season of any CB in history in 2013 or 14.

EDIT - here it is.

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Old 04-02-2024, 09:07 AM   #504
sovereignstar v2
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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox View Post
I've never heard of Vontae Davis. Anyone? anyone?

Why would you have heard of Vontae Davis when you had no idea who Teddy Bridgewater is?
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Old 04-02-2024, 09:21 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by CrimsonFox View Post
I've never heard of Vontae Davis. Anyone? anyone?

He had a stretch where he was really, really good. Wasn't a ten year HOF run, but for several seasons he was a top tier cover guy. In the same breath with, let's say, Nnamdi Asomugha, as a contemporary perhaps?
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Old 04-02-2024, 10:14 AM   #506
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Hearing more buzz around Pennix. There's buzz that a lot of the teams that people see trading into the top 5 to grab one of the top-4 QBs might actually be hoping that Pennix falls to them instead so they can surprise people and grab him later in the first round.

Of course, if every team hoping that Pennix falls to them knows that other teams are interested in him, then he suddenly stops being a value pick and starts being a guy you have to trade up to get . . .

I LOVE the game theory this time of year.
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Old 04-02-2024, 10:18 AM   #507
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I keep reading that the Broncos are not going to trade up but sit back and take Bo Nix later in the 1st round because he's a small guy like Drew Brees. Or something.
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Old 04-02-2024, 10:49 AM   #508
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More QBs before 18 means better options for the Bengals.
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Old 04-02-2024, 11:47 AM   #509
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If there is any team that should be trading back it is the Broncos. Could really use some draft capital after all the picks they have shipped out. Quite sure they can get Nix down around 20 if they want him.

I have zero faith in Sean Payton's QB evaluation skills. Lucked into Brees and otherwise has never found a decent quarterback.
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Old 04-02-2024, 11:47 AM   #510
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More QBs before 29 means better options for the Lions.
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Old 04-02-2024, 12:05 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
Hearing more buzz around Pennix. There's buzz that a lot of the teams that people see trading into the top 5 to grab one of the top-4 QBs might actually be hoping that Pennix falls to them instead so they can surprise people and grab him later in the first round.

Of course, if every team hoping that Pennix falls to them knows that other teams are interested in him, then he suddenly stops being a value pick and starts being a guy you have to trade up to get . . .

I LOVE the game theory this time of year.

this is how you end up with Christian Ponder

(and I too love this time of year)
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Old 04-02-2024, 12:45 PM   #512
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2/3rds of the time trading down works every time
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Old 04-02-2024, 12:54 PM   #513
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this is how you end up with Christian Ponder

(and I too love this time of year)

I always thought that guy could have had a decent career if he had gone in the 4th round. But top 15 (as I recall)? No way. Too much pressure on him to perform and on the team to play him quickly.

Now, EJ Manuel... I don't know why anyone thought he'd be good. Terrible pocket presence, even in college.
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Old 04-02-2024, 03:22 PM   #514
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this is how you end up with Christian Ponder

The Samantha Steele approach
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Old 04-02-2024, 05:20 PM   #515
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Going back to the first page, you have to get to Tier 6, 11 QBs deep (and that didn't include Rodgers), before you get to a QB not on the team that drafted him, which sort of supports the idea of gambling wildly in the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flere-imsaho View Post
Tier 1: Brady-esque ability to win regardless of how much his team handicaps him, excels at finding the best plays against the defense and winning consistently without needing to blow other teams away: Mahomes

Tier 2: Peyton Manning-esque ability to take over games and bully opposing teams into submission, while also, like Manning, curiously coming undone against specific defenses or running out of steam when the rest of his team can't hold up their end of the bargain: Allen, Jackson

Tier 3: Could be Tier 1 or 2 but two seasons with ill-timed injuries contribute to a small sample size: Burrow

Tier 4: Probably going to be Tier 1 or Tier 2 but we don't know yet because either a) they've had less than a season or b) they've been playing for the Chargers or c) whatever they hell we think has gone on with Jacksonville: Herbert, Love, Stroud, Richardson, Lawrence

Tier 5: Really good with key offensive weapons: Hurts, Prescott

Tier 6: Really good with key offensive weapons and an offensive guru at HC or OC: Purdy, Stafford, Tagovailoa, Goff

Tier 7: Good with key offensive weapons and no longer actively detrimental to your team's chance to win: Cousins

Tier 8: Adequate. You're not going to make the playoffs due to them, but you're also not going to effectively tank with them: Minshew, G. Smith, Carr, Mayfield

Tier 9: Who the fuck knows: Watson, Murray

Tier 10: You're kidding yourself, start tanking: Dobbs, Wilson, Fields, Howell, O'Connell, Ridder, Pickett, Jones, Young, Wilson

Or, put another way, the chances of the stars aligning as such:

1. QB who can make a significant enough impact to get you to the playoffs if you generally suck, or the SB if you're playoff-worthy in all other aspects is available via trade or FA

2. You can successfully beat off competition for him

...is 2 of 15 or maybe 3 of 16, but probably not in any given year (over multiple years, maybe).

Is that better odds than gambling in the draft? Probably. Is that better odds in any given year? Also probably. Is gambling in the draft vs. waiting for someone to appear via FA or trade more likely to appeal to a standard GM's sense of impending doom? Almost certainly.
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Old 04-03-2024, 10:29 AM   #516
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Stefan Diggs (a 2024 6th and 2025 5th) to the Texans for a 2025 2nd.

I just read this morning that the Bills needed to draft a #1 WR because of Diggs' age and no heir apparent on the roster. Now they don't even have an apparent.
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Old 04-03-2024, 01:35 PM   #517
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And the Commisioner will do nothing to the Cards owner/team i'm guessing.

Technically, they did, it was a NFL-appointed arbitrator, (they are now posting it to the court system to enforce judgement)
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Old 04-03-2024, 02:17 PM   #518
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The Texans are just pulling every string. I really like their whole approach.

As soon as you are confident you have the young QB... you push in your chips.
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Old 04-03-2024, 02:39 PM   #519
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Is Diggs considered a headcase or demanding a new deal? Seems like a really light return for team that should be in "win now" mode for a guy that seems like he's in his prime and has a pretty reasonable cap number (looks to be between $18-19M per year for the next four years). I'd like it for the Bills a lot more if it was a 2024 2nd rounder (but still think it would be a good deal for Houston).

Spotrac has an opt out listed, but it seems like it is just a roster bonus type thing if he is on the roster (rather than him having the option to opt out).

I would have loved this deal for the Steelers.
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Old 04-03-2024, 02:59 PM   #520
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Basically, they were tired of him (and his brother) claiming that he needed to get out of Buffalo (that the problem in Buffalo wasn't him), and not taking responsibility for screwing up. THey phased him well, not out, but down severely in the 2nd half of last season
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Old 04-03-2024, 03:53 PM   #521
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He retired in the middle of a game.

Did they stop and serve cake?

Last edited by CrimsonFox : 04-04-2024 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 04-04-2024, 10:31 AM   #522
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The Bills just standing pat and drafting Jefferson is a great what-if. Maybe he wouldn’t have been available to them, but they clearly flubbed this
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Old 04-04-2024, 10:35 AM   #523
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There's a way the Bills could be looking at this that makes some sense.

They had their first Super-Bowl-worthy core around Allen. And it didn't get over the hump. And trying to keep running it back with those guys wasn't going to work.

So basically take all of the medicine this season and maybe next. Clear out the cap. Get rid of the old players. Collect picks and young players. And then try to create a 2026-30 core to make another run in the second half of Allen's career.
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Old 04-04-2024, 02:06 PM   #524
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There's a way the Bills could be looking at this that makes some sense.

They had their first Super-Bowl-worthy core around Allen. And it didn't get over the hump. And trying to keep running it back with those guys wasn't going to work.

So basically take all of the medicine this season and maybe next. Clear out the cap. Get rid of the old players. Collect picks and young players. And then try to create a 2026-30 core to make another run in the second half of Allen's career.
This does make sense. They have to reset sometime. Probably better sooner rather than later.
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Old 04-04-2024, 03:03 PM   #525
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The Texans are just pulling every string. I really like their whole approach.

As soon as you are confident you have the young QB... you push in your chips.

I heard today that in the last six Super Bowls at least one team has had a QB on a rookie deal.
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Old 04-04-2024, 04:48 PM   #526
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Oops.

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Old 04-04-2024, 07:26 PM   #527
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That's messed up. The league wouldn't let Kirk Cousins swap jersey numbers with Kyle Pitts unless they bought out the inventory of Pitts jerseys already printed. Several hundred thousand dollars worth.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk
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Old 04-04-2024, 07:28 PM   #528
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Like death and taxes, one thing we can always count on is NFL owners being cheap as fuck.
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Old 04-04-2024, 11:47 PM   #529
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That's messed up. The league wouldn't let Kirk Cousins swap jersey numbers with Kyle Pitts unless they bought out the inventory of Pitts jerseys already printed. Several hundred thousand dollars worth.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

how do jerseys fricking cost 100grand! I think we've uncovered a problem with our priorities
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Old 04-05-2024, 07:05 AM   #530
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The Texans are just pulling every string. I really like their whole approach.

As soon as you are confident you have the young QB... you push in your chips.

Agreed. And I wonder if the Bears' movement away from Fields represents the corollary: if it's not abundantly clear you have drafted a game-changer QB by the time he gets towards the end of his rookie contract, jettison & try again.
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Old 04-05-2024, 07:11 AM   #531
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how do jerseys fricking cost 100grand! I think we've uncovered a problem with our priorities

These are the jerseys made for people to buy not the ones for the games. Given the retail price, I would expect the cost could be 75-100 dollars, so it isn't that many they would need to buy back for that price. This helps make sure the retailers don't lose money since people are a lot less likely to buy a jersey of a player with a different number.
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Old 04-05-2024, 07:31 AM   #532
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These are the jerseys made for people to buy not the ones for the games. Given the retail price, I would expect the cost could be 75-100 dollars, so it isn't that many they would need to buy back for that price. This helps make sure the retailers don't lose money since people are a lot less likely to buy a jersey of a player with a different number.
I had never heard of this problem before, but then it dawned on me that usually the big star player is taking the number from a lesser known player. There probably aren't thousands of jerseys out with the third-string quarterbacks name on them.
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Old 04-05-2024, 05:00 PM   #533
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I don't think the bills matter or will ever matter.

same with texans
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Old 04-06-2024, 02:25 AM   #534
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I find it hard to believe that many Pitts jerseys are sitting around. If they are, it’s on him for playing like garbage.
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Old 04-06-2024, 06:48 PM   #535
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Carson Wentz signed 1 yr 3.25 mill deal with the Chiefs

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Old 04-10-2024, 07:24 AM   #536
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I go back to my general idea that it is almost impossible to tell the difference between incompetence and corruption.
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Old 04-10-2024, 07:48 AM   #537
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Today I learned that Ickey Woods had only one 1,000 yard season and finished his career with under 1,600 yards.

I had no idea. He was such a big deal his rookie season.
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Old 04-10-2024, 07:53 AM   #538
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But he still sits atop the Shuffle list.
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Old 04-10-2024, 08:50 AM   #539
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ACL injury before medicine made that an injury you can overcome. That running game for the Bengals with Woods and Brooks was special.
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Old 04-10-2024, 01:25 PM   #540
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ACL injury before medicine made that an injury you can overcome. That running game for the Bengals with Woods and Brooks was special.
So many guys had careers cut short from knee injuries that are fixable today. I can't help but think of what William Andrews career could have been....

Last edited by GrantDawg : 04-10-2024 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 04-10-2024, 01:36 PM   #541
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I go back to my general idea that it is almost impossible to tell the difference between incompetence and corruption.



Man,it's hilarious.

Chargers up double digits, refuse to stop throwing: "They threw the game!"

Falcons up 28-3 in the super bowl, become super conservative "They threw the game!"

They didn't execute, end of story.. The only team that really got it right offensively against the Pats in the Pats notable playoff losses was Philly. You keep playing, and executing
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Old 04-10-2024, 01:46 PM   #542
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So many guys had careers cut short from knee injuries that are fixable today. I can't help but think of what William Andrews career could have been....

Gale Sayers comes to mind.
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Old 04-10-2024, 01:55 PM   #543
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So many guys had careers cut short from knee injuries that are fixable today. I can't help but think of what William Andrews career could have been....

Wait? When did those start getting fixed?
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Old 04-10-2024, 02:10 PM   #544
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So many guys had careers cut short from knee injuries that are fixable today. I can't help but think of what William Andrews career could have been....

I loved those Falcons - Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, Gerald Riggs, Billy "White Shoes" Johnson. That was my original favorite team.
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Old 04-10-2024, 02:25 PM   #545
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Dr. Z would often talk about Greg Cook--a QB that Bill Walsh had in Cincinnati who blew out his shoulder. Lots of "He could have been the greatest ever" type of comments.
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Old 04-10-2024, 02:32 PM   #546
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Wait? When did those start getting fixed?

I believe late 70's is when they started doing the arthroscopic knee surgeries. Wasn't really until the 80's when people were able to recover and play again if I remember correctly. And even then it wasn't until the 90's when players could recover and play at a high level. Terry Allen was the first big name I remember who was really damn good after multiple ACLs.
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Old 04-10-2024, 05:36 PM   #547
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Chargers up double digits, refuse to stop throwing: "They threw the game!"

Falcons up 28-3 in the super bowl, become super conservative "They threw the game!"

I remember the Falcons kept throwing, which kept stopping the clock. They also got conservative with playcalling, which probably didn't help either.

But I distinctly remember thinking in the late 3rd Q and all throughout the 4th Q that if they just started running out the clock it was all over.
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Old 04-10-2024, 08:16 PM   #548
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I loved those Falcons - Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, Gerald Riggs, Billy "White Shoes" Johnson. That was my original favorite team.
That team and the Hershel Walker Georgia Bulldogs gave me my love for the game.
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Old 04-10-2024, 08:23 PM   #549
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Fuck Michael VIck
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Old 04-10-2024, 08:24 PM   #550
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Oh Boy....is there exciting news about the drafvt and new teams and free agents? nope. News about the NFL allowing a third helmet option. I miss the 70s.
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