SCOTUS Gay Marriage Thread

[Thomkal]

Looks like we'll get the gay marriage ruling tomorrow or Monday.

[corbes]

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...4-556_3204.pdf

[corbes]

“The right to marry is a fundamental right inherent in the liberty of the person, and under the Due Process and Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment couples of the same-sex may not be deprived of that right and that liberty. The Court now holds that same-sex couples may exercise the fundamental right to marry. No longer may this liberty be denied to them.”

[cartman]

The majority opinion also said that religious institutions have a 1st amendment right to be against SSM, so that addresses the fear that some had that churches would be forced to perform SSM. Makes it clear this is a civil issue, not a religious one.

[Kodos]

Awesome. You did good this week, Supremes. Happy 4th of July!

[Logan]

Good day.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Awesome. You did good this week, Supremes. Happy 4th of July!

+1

[Thomkal]

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

Congratulations on the victory.

Hate isn't having a good week.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

This day has been a long time coming. Happy for you and others who are now free to marry whoever (whomever?) they like. Anyone who would block you would not be a loss anyhow. Chalk up a win for love over hate.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

So do you have an eye for a guy like me?

[JPhillips]

Cheers to you, Thomkal. If you ever come around I'd be happy to buy you a drink in celebration!

[Neuqua]

Cheers to Thomkal and SCOTUS. What a week!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

Glad you feel comfortable coming out now and congratulations on the victory. Sorry to hear about the strife with your brother, in some ways this might help since it will hopefully be less of a political matter now.

[albionmoonlight]

I am glad that the decision got you to come out of the FOFC shadows, Thomkal. Glad to know a little bit more of the real you.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

Very happy for you Dan. Both for the decision and for you feeling comfortable to share this with us. I hope your brother someday opens his mind and softens his stance.

[MrBug708]

So does this affect churches in the same way way it did that bakery that was sued? Half my Facebook thinks the end times is near and the other half is ready to party, so I can't quite tell

[cartman]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So does this affect churches in the same way way it did that bakery that was sued? Half my Facebook thinks the end times is near and the other half is ready to party, so I can't quite tell

Nope.

Originally Posted by cartman

The majority opinion also said that religious institutions have a 1st amendment right to be against SSM, so that addresses the fear that some had that churches would be forced to perform SSM. Makes it clear this is a civil issue, not a religious one.

[Brian Swartz]

Though many of my Christian friends will not see it this way, this is what is on my Facebook and how I will endeavor to respond. I hope most of them will join me.

This is a day to mourn, but let us make it more prominently a day to love. A day to pray for, not prey on, those in authority. A day to emphasize and demonstrate ever more the glorious love and grace of Jesus Christ, which is and always has been our only hope and foundation.

Originally Posted by Thomkal

It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first.

I appreciate you sharing this. As a former conservative(still am on social issues such as this) and a believer I have a similar conflict with one of my younger brothers who is aggressively agnostic. I can identify with your statement here as we have had a similar struggle to what you describe and there is little we can talk about without him becoming upset so we just basically don't talk about things that we can't find common interest/ground in(which is most of them). It saddens me a lot but I do the best I can with it.

You get nothing but kudos so far as making this statement here is concerned. It is always best to be honest and straightforward, and I am glad you felt free to do so.

[CraigSca]

Congrats, Thomkal. Conservative believer here - give it time (with your brother and others) as they will eventually come around.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

Congrats, Thomkal! I do hope your brother can find some peace with this at some point.

Now you can focus all of your attention back onto your beloved Cards!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

Wow! That's awesome, Thomkal! Congrats on coming out here, and on the big win yesterday for the GBLT community.

As a fiscal conservative, I find myself more and more identifying with a more progressively social stance, and I see yesterday as a big win for my stance on that as well.

I have to admit, your situation with your twin brother is interesting to me, on the science side of things. Are you and your brother identical twins?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Very happy for you Dan. Both for the decision and for you feeling comfortable to share this with us. I hope your brother someday opens his mind and softens his stance.

+1

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

Whoo! Good for you. Very happy you felt like you could share this with us.

My biggest laugh about the entire thing is how the religious feel it is infringing on their personal beliefs. Nobody is forcing these churches to marry LGBTQ couples. They can go to city hall and get a certificate like anybody else could.

This is a fantastic day for equality and love. Hopefully we can continue to push forward as a nation and globally.

[SirFozzie]

Great couple of days.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Grover

Nobody is forcing these churches to marry LGBTQ couples. They can go to city hall and get a certificate like anybody else could.

Not yet, but I don't think all of those concerns are completely unreasonable. There are already the much-discussed instances of Christian businesses not being able to run their operations according to their beliefs, and the issue of tax-exempt status for those communities that don't marry LGBTQ couples is already rumbling out there in certain quarters. I don't view it as an imminent issue, but it does seem likely that society will continue to move further and further in that direction.

Edit: As the Chief Justice wrote:

Originally Posted by John Roberts

The majority graciously suggests that religious believers may continue to “advocate” and “teach” their views of marriage. The First Amendment guarantees, however, the freedom to “exercise” religion. Ominously, that is not a word the majority uses. Hard questions arise when people of faith exercise religion in ways that may be seen to conflict with the new right to same-sex marriage—when, for example, a religious college provides married student housing only to opposite-sex married couples, or a religious adoption agency declines to place children with same-sex married couples… Unfortunately, people of faith can take no comfort in the treatment they receive from the majority today.

As mentioned, I do believe these types of issues will continue to be litigated, and the pattern/trend is not one in favor of protecting religious liberty. I fully understand and respect the view that those liberties are worth sacrificing for the greater good and a view of equality that I do not share, but I profoundly differ with it.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

God bless you. I am so happy for you.

[Subby]

This video captures how proud I am of my country right now. It brought tears to my eyes.

Gay Men's Chorus of Washington Sings National Anthem After Supreme Court Ruling - YouTube

[Dr. Sak]

I don't like to talk politics or religion (except with my Father-in-law ) but if you are a true Christian you will remember the greatest commandment of them all:

Love your neighbor as yourself.

I'm happy that everyone has the right to marriage, I hope that those who are of Christian belief remember that commandment and the fact that God is Love. Be happy for those who now have the right to marry the one they Love, do not judge, and in return we just ask for those who don't agree with our beliefs to have the same tolerance that they expect from us. With all the hate going on in the world, having more love can't hurt.

I will get off my soap box now, I'm starting to sound like a 1960s hippy.

[Kodos]

Get a haircut!

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Not yet, but I don't think all of those concerns are completely unreasonable.

I just can't see this. Catholic churches, for example - I don't believe they will marry someone who is not either a Catholic in good standing or someone who has made gestures to convert. I'm not sure if you're even allowed in Mormon temples if you're not Mormon. For many churches there are just qualifications that you have to meed in order for the church to agree to marry you. I don't think it will be any different in this case.

[Brian Swartz]

I was referring to the broader religious liberty issue, which I tried(and apparently failed) to make clear by including the Roberts quote and the issues raised there.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I just can't see this. Catholic churches, for example - I don't believe they will marry someone who is not either a Catholic in good standing or someone who has made gestures to convert. I'm not sure if you're even allowed in Mormon temples if you're not Mormon. For many churches there are just qualifications that you have to meed in order for the church to agree to marry you. I don't think it will be any different in this case.

And I wouldn't go to a mosque just because they support marriage. Nor would I expect them to make room for me. Gay people will have to do what every other person through time as done when they feel shafted...find or build a church that will welcome you.

[path12]

Man, the Pride parade on Sunday is gonna be just nuts. I think we'll have to get downtown for it.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Dutch

And I wouldn't go to a mosque just because they support marriage. Nor would I expect them to make room for me. Gay people will have to do what every other person through time as done when they feel shafted...find or build a church that will welcome you.

And churches that don't support gay marriage will have to be willing to accept that some members will move to a different church that does support gay marriage.

[bob]

A buddy of mine's wife is going to see the Indigo Girls tonight. Should be some good stories from that.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Kodos

And churches that don't support gay marriage will have to be willing to accept that some members will move to a different church that does support gay marriage.

Nobody is locked in to a church, it's a free country...and when it comes to religion, a free world....mostly.

I fully support gay people modifying religion to meet their needs. We've all done it.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I'm not sure if you're even allowed in Mormon temples if you're not Mormon. For many churches there are just qualifications that you have to meet in order for the church to agree to marry you. I don't think it will be any different in this case.

Just as a pont of information, being Mormon on its own is not enough to enter the temple. You have to be considered worthy.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by heybrad

Just as a pont of information, being Mormon on its own is not enough to enter the temple. You have to be considered worthy.

Its a great example of why choices exist.

[Kodos]

Great. I just know that I will never be temple-worthy.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

Congratulations. Today, you're one giant step closer to sharing everything that's positive about America.

We've all seen too many of the negatives lately. It's nice to have a day that's about inclusion and freedom.

[corbes]

Originally Posted by Subby

This video captures how proud I am of my country right now. It brought tears to my eyes.

Gay Men's Chorus of Washington Sings National Anthem After Supreme Court Ruling - YouTube

+1

Originally Posted by thomkal

Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American

#lovewins

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

I can only imagine your sense of relief and how happy you feel. Congratulations.

[Edward64]

Congratulations Obama .... hopefully with Obamacare no longer a distraction, you can refocus on foreign policy. I think your domestic policy is in the history books but your 2nd term foreign policy needs more work and could tarnish your overall rating.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/politi...nge/index.html

The times, they are a changing, suddenly at whiplash speed.

After a momentous week, same-sex couples can now marry in all 50 states, the Confederate flag's historic hold on the political institutions of the Deep South is fraying by the hour and Obamacare, after defying another attempt to dismantle it, is now reaffirmed as the law of the land.

And as a capstone to these seismic events, the first black president of the United States spent Friday afternoon singing "Amazing Grace" on live television in front of an African American congregation.

Political and social conventions on civil rights and race relations that for decades have seemed immovable are being swept away in a cascade of grass-roots change. Politicians have been left struggling to keep up

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

We talk a lot here at FOFC about how our back and forth bickering never changes minds. But I've changed my mind over the years on what homosexuality is, and a lot of that was from discussions a long time ago here on this message board. And basically, I just don't understand it, but its not something to be hateful about, its not something to be scared of. I dont make gay jokes anymore...I stopped saying, "That's gay" about anything I disapprove of. While I still struggle to equate it to our racial problems...I get that it was second class citizenship we were enforcing and I was part of the problem.

In a nutshell, I'm glad that you, a decent human being by all accounts, are happy and that America has taken a step to be more comfortable with you.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Finally, Finally I can proudly call myself a gay American. Yes I was one of the two people (i think) marked that box we had in that poll here a while back. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled in our favor, I feel it was time to come out of the shadows. This issue has caused some strife in my own family, with the person I should be closest to-my twin brother. He is very much a conservative Christian Republican...while I'm not any of those. It's been hard for both of us to put our political/social beliefs behind us at times and remember we are our brothers first. I don't expect this decision to do much to change things between us, but it has and will help many of my gay brethren who have fought for this for so long, and for that I am happy for them.

NOTE: If today's results and my "coming out here" disgusts and angers you, then please block me-I don't want to hear your words anymore than you want to hear mine anymore I'm guessing.

A day that has been long overdue... sort of. The only thing that I am not a fan of is the supreme court taking away power from the state. I applaud the message, just not the messenger.

Oh well enough of the parade pissing. Great message, one that I fully support. As I have said. While I may not like seeing two men kissing that is my own problem, not theirs. Anyone that is against the idea of same sex marriage there is very good news for you; this doesn't affect you one bit. If you don't like the idea of same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Dutch

We talk a lot here at FOFC about how our back and forth bickering never changes minds. But I've changed my mind over the years on what homosexuality is, and a lot of that was from discussions a long time ago here on this message board. And basically, I just don't understand it, but its not something to be hateful about, its not something to be scared of. I dont make gay jokes anymore...I stopped saying, "That's gay" about anything I disapprove of. While I still struggle to equate it to our racial problems...I get that it was second class citizenship we were enforcing and I was part of the problem.

In a nutshell, I'm glad that you, a decent human being by all accounts, are happy and that America has taken a step to be more comfortable with you.

This, this, a million times this!!!

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

We talk a lot here at FOFC about how our back and forth bickering never changes minds. But I've changed my mind over the years on what homosexuality is, and a lot of that was from discussions a long time ago here on this message board. And basically, I just don't understand it, but its not something to be hateful about, its not something to be scared of. I dont make gay jokes anymore...I stopped saying, "That's gay" about anything I disapprove of. While I still struggle to equate it to our racial problems...I get that it was second class citizenship we were enforcing and I was part of the problem.

In a nutshell, I'm glad that you, a decent human being by all accounts, are happy and that America has taken a step to be more comfortable with you.

Pretty cool how you said this.

[Kodos]

Nice, Dutch.

[corbes]