SCOTUS Gay Marriage Thread

[Thomkal]

yay Episcopalians!

[ColtCrazy]

I basically use twitter as a way to keep up with sports, politics, etc. I follow people from both parties. A conservative podcast host from Indy I follow posted a pic of some rather frisky looking guys from a gay pride parade with the caption along the lines of the fact that they don't look like marriage material with the tag traditionalmarriage. I responded with a pic of partiers from spring break and asked how this was different, that his post implied that the GLBT community was nothing but lewd. I got called a jackass and the tone was very defensive. Some random group responded and immediately blocked me. Never even heard of them.

Ahhh, the internet.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by tarcone

If you don’t accept it and you’re a court clerk, you must perform the ceremony or resign your position.

holy jeebus. it actually happened.

Entire Tenn. county clerk’s office resigns over same-sex marriage licenses | WKRN News 2

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

holy jeebus. it actually happened.

Entire Tenn. county clerk’s office resigns over same-sex marriage licenses | WKRN News 2

Change doesn't come easy. A full 10 years after the Brown v Board of Education decision, only about 8% of schools in the South had actually been integrated. People in the South hate having to change their ways. Thankfully, overall most people aren't having a problem with this. In Georgia, even in rural communities, licenses were being issued and marriages conducted on the day of the decision with positive articles written about that in local papers.

I don't agree with Nathan Deal (Georgia Governor) very often, but right from the start he said that Georgia would uphold the Constitution and be ready to follow the decision from SCOTUS. For once, Georgia doesn't join some of the other wing nuts:

Quoted from: http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/04...-gay-marriage/

O’Hayer: “Attorney General Sam Olens recently told the Atlanta Press Club that however the U.S. Supreme Court rules on gay marriage, the state should follow that ruling – whatever it is, even if it means Georgia’s constitutional ban on gay marriage might be affected. Do you agree with him?”

Deal: “Yes, I do. The attorney general – just as I [have] – has taken an oath of office. And that oath includes that we will uphold the constitution of the state of Georgia, and that we will support and uphold the constitution of the United States.

“I think we understand that in our republican form of government, that federal, constitutional issues trump state constitutional issues. So we will abide by whatever the Supreme Court rules as an interpretation of the United States Constitution.”

One thing interesting about some of the words being used by folks like Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, and others in the GOP is that they sound very similar to statements in, and related to, The Southern Manifesto. A document written by some "Southern Democrats" after the 1954 SCOTUS Brown v Board of Education decision.

[Dutch]

How is Brown vs the Board of Education working out in those northern inner cities. Fully integrated?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

holy jeebus. it actually happened.

Entire Tenn. county clerk’s office resigns over same-sex marriage licenses | WKRN News 2

Stupid is as stupid does.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

holy jeebus. it actually happened.

Entire Tenn. county clerk’s office resigns over same-sex marriage licenses | WKRN News 2

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Stupid is as stupid does.

While I disagree with them, at least they had the balls to do it. My hats off to them. They could've made it ugly by trying to go to court. But they simply followed their conscious.

It sure beats all the jackasses that are moving to Canada if 'X' happens. Then never actually do it.

[Subby]

Kentucky Clerk Still Denying Gay Marriage Licenses, Says God Overrules Supreme Court

[jeff061]

Throw the twat in prison.

Against your religion? Fine then quit your job. Oh, don't want to do that because your beliefs are less important than your paychek, but more important than equal rights? Fuck her.

[NobodyHere]

She should just use the Obama defense in that she doesn't have enough resources to issue gay marriage certificates.

[Dutch]

I can agree its against her religion, but you gotta follow the rules if government...or leave. It's like those knuckleheads that join the military and then wont perform their duties because they are pacifists. Show her the door.

[Subby]

Who wore it better?

[Ryche]

She's being awfully selective about which religious tenets she's choosing to support and which she ignores considering her personal life.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

She should just use the Obama defense in that she doesn't have enough resources to issue gay marriage certificates.

They're just called marriage licenses, brother.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

While I disagree with them, at least they had the balls to do it. My hats off to them. They could've made it ugly by trying to go to court. But they simply followed their conscious.

I don't agree with their stance. But I give all the credit to them for following their faith into personal sacrifice.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I don't agree with their stance. But I give all the credit to them for following their faith into personal sacrifice.

What does that faith say about sex outside of marriage and divorce again?

[Thomkal]

I find it very convenient she would have supported the Supreme Court decision had it ruled in her favor, but its God's law when they didn't. You can't have it both ways. She did not run on a platform of no gay marriage when she got the job-so she has to do the job she was elected to do or find another job.

And don't get me started on the hypocrisy of divorcing three times, have a kid out of wedlock, etc. She's no saint as far as her own background goes, and if she can't follow "God's laws" in her own life, she shouldn't be dictating in an official position at least how others (who probably aren't of her faith anyway)

[stevew]

Hey, she loves traditional marriage so much she did it 4 times.

[Solecismic]

Someone should bring his German Shepherd to the courthouse and ask her for a marriage license, just to mess with her.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I don't agree with their stance. But I give all the credit to them for following their faith into personal sacrifice.

It's not really sacrifice when this is just a long con for her to collect massive GoFundMe dollars and her legal team to solicit a ton of donations.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by stevew

It's not really sacrifice when this is just a long con for her to collect massive GoFundMe dollars and her legal team to solicit a ton of donations.

Two events got mixed up. The Tennessee all quit their jobs because of their beliefs. I do not agree with their views, but they are willing to do what they feel is right. Good for them.

This idiot is doing nothing worthy of a news story. She needs to resign or be thrown in jail.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Someone should bring his German Shepherd to the courthouse and ask her for a marriage license, just to mess with her.

Her office apparently already issued a license to a woman and transgender man because they didn't realize what they were doing.

This is in my wife's home town. The clerk position is apparently a family job as her mother held it for years before passing it to her daughter.

[RainMaker]

I wonder what the reaction to this would be if she was a Muslim and refused to give out marriage certificates to non-Muslims because Allah overrules the Supreme Court.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I wonder what the reaction to this would be if she was a Muslim and refused to give out marriage certificates to non-Muslims because Allah overrules the Supreme Court.

I think we all know what it would be. . . but honestly, the reaction to this has been what I would expect. A majority of people are pissed. They should be pissed.


The problem is that she's an elected official and so it has to go through stages. She will lose her job over this and she should lose her job over it.

[Subby]

Kentucky clerk who refuses to issue gay marriage licenses ordered to jail for contempt of court http://t.co/HDssHNUZ5x

— Washington Post (@washingtonpost) September 3, 2015

[RainMaker]

She got what she wanted in the end. This will be big money for her.

[jeff061]

How?

[JPhillips]

I think she's almost certainly caught up in being famous for the first time in her life, but I'm not sure she's going to make a lot of money. She's not being lauded by the big boys in conservative media. She'll be able to go to all sorts of churches and speak, but they won't pay much.

Her attorneys have really screwed her. They and their organization will make money off of this the longer she's in jail, but urging your client to ignore judicial rulings isn't good advice.

[miami_fan]

Has a gofundme account been started for her defense fund?

[RainMaker]

A pizza place in Indiana that didn't even turn down a gay couple (who orders pizzas for a wedding anyway?) got over half a million dollars. This lady is actually going to go to jail. I'd be shocked if she doesn't double that.

She's looking at speaking gigs and probably a book in the near future.

[stevew]

Will be interesting to see if the rest of the office joins her in jail.

[Subby]

She wasn't fined because the judge knew she would just get crowdfunded or Koched or whatever.

[ISiddiqui]

Also, I think there may be a possibility of issuing the marriage licenses she is refusing to grant by the court itself since the magistrate is incarcerated.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Subby

She wasn't fined because the judge knew she would just get crowdfunded or Koched or whatever.

To be fair to the Koch brothers, I think they're pretty supportive of gay marriage.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by stevew

Will be interesting to see if the rest of the office joins her in jail.

I heard that the judge had the clerks meet with the Federal Public Defenders's office before he heard their cases. To the extent that Ms. Davis may have been being mislead by attorneys who cared more about fundraising on her name than on her best interest, the deputy clerks will hopefully not have that conflict of interest by their counsel.

[Subby]

They might support it in their heads, but most of their funding goes to candidates who are opposed to marriage equality.

[AENeuman]

"I promised to love Him with all my heart, mind and soul because I wanted to make heaven my home."

IMO, people saying they believe just so they can get the eternal reward is like someone joining AA for the free coffee.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

"I promised to love Him with all my heart, mind and soul because I wanted to make heaven my home."

IMO, people saying they believe just so they can get the eternal reward is like someone joining AA for the free coffee.

She would read the part that clearly states she ain't Him.

[stevew]

Isn't there a compromise solution where she simply delegates all of the marriage paperwork to another member of her staff?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by stevew

Isn't there a compromise solution where she simply delegates all of the marriage paperwork to another member of her staff?

I think she refused them and/or the courts could not agree on one/ruled against such compromises.

[cartman]

Evidently 5 of the 6 other members of the staff have agreed to issue licenses. The lone holdout is her son.

[SirFozzie]

2 for 1 special when he refuses?

[molson]

Originally Posted by stevew

Isn't there a compromise solution where she simply delegates all of the marriage paperwork to another member of her staff?

One of her arguments in her response to the court's contempt order was that other people in the office, and even other departments, could issue the licenses. That wasn't a good legal argument because it didn't speak at all to the contempt thing.

So I haven't figured out how much this is just her not wanting to personally do this, or to what extent she's actually stopping this necessary government function from happening. Of course, one argument that its the latter is that people WERE turned away. If they had setup some kind of arrangement beforehand where she just calls in someone else in, nobody would have been denied and this never would have become news, even if the order directed "the clerk" to issue the licenses.

I keep hearing so much about "this is your job and you have to do it" which does have a potential to create a witch-hunt if there ARE other options to get the licenses processed. I worked in a corrections agency that did executions. Before I started doing work that supported that process, a supervisor pulled me aside and asked me if I was comfortable doing that work. If I wasn't, I wasn't going to get fired, they'd just have someone else do it. If NO ONE else was willing to do it, it'd be a problem because the executive branch is supposed to carry out policy, not make up their own, but must organizations have flexibility to accommodate different individual beliefs. But it seems like this lady wasn't really interested in being flexible and finding solutions - at least until the contempt order came.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

I keep hearing so much about "this is your job and you have to do it" which does have a potential to create a witch-hunt if there ARE other options to get the licenses processed. I worked in a corrections agency that did executions. Before I started doing work that supported that process, a supervisor pulled me aside and asked me if I was comfortable doing that work. If I wasn't, I wasn't going to get fired, they'd just have someone else do it. If NO ONE else was willing to do it, it'd be a problem because the executive branch is supposed to carry out policy, not make up their own, but must organizations have flexibility to accommodate different individual beliefs. But it seems like this lady wasn't really interested in being flexible and finding solutions - at least until the contempt order came.

I think it's a bit different because she's an elected official and no one can come in and fire her for refusing to do her job. The prison would have had every right to fire you for not wanting to be part of the execution process (even if that would be a bad move on their part).

I'm sure she could have worked out a system where the other people in the office handled those duties. Instead she restricted the constitutional rights of other citizens.

[cartman]

SheWired - 17 Genius Tweets from the Person who Allegedly 'Sits Next to Kim Davis'

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by molson

I worked in a corrections agency that did executions. Before I started doing work that supported that process, a supervisor pulled me aside and asked me if I was comfortable doing that work. If I wasn't, I wasn't going to get fired, they'd just have someone else do it. If NO ONE else was willing to do it, it'd be a problem because the executive branch is supposed to carry out policy, not make up their own, but must organizations have flexibility to accommodate different individual beliefs. But it seems like this lady wasn't really interested in being flexible and finding solutions - at least until the contempt order came.

I want to give serious props to your supervisor here for letting you know that and giving you the option. As someone who is vehemently against the death penalty, I would have opted out and been very grateful to the supervisor for letting me know opt out was a possibility.

[Subby]

pic.twitter.com/KnvHviZ2jz

— Who is Jose Rivera? (@whoisjoserivera) September 9, 2015

[Thomkal]

very funny. Also very funny (and sad) is that Fox's Shep Smith spoke out against Kim Davis and christians when they were showing her being released. He's been crucified by Fox lovers and conservatives. He may have the last laugh-I don't think he's come out yet, but the rumor is that's he's gay and has had a boyfriend for a long time.

Boy if he hasn't come out, I can just imagine how he will be vilified, and probably won't be able to keep his job.

Shep Smith Rails Against Anti-Gay ‘Haters’ During Kim Davis Presser - YouTube

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

very funny. Also very funny (and sad) is that Fox's Shep Smith spoke out against Kim Davis and christians when they were showing her being released. He's been crucified by Fox lovers and conservatives. He may have the last laugh-I don't think he's come out yet, but the rumor is that's he's gay and has had a boyfriend for a long time.

Boy if he hasn't come out, I can just imagine how he will be vilified, and probably won't be able to keep his job.

Shep Smith Rails Against Anti-Gay ‘Haters’ During Kim Davis Presser - YouTube

I thought he was already "out".

[cuervo72]

I thought it was more of an open secret that for Fox purposes was just never addressed.