NFL Week 13 Thread

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Also, assuming the Rams do not score in the next few minutes, the 49ers will not have allowed a touchdown over the last ten quarters.

Bad jinx, damn it.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

A lot of those guys magically looked good last year. Wonder what the difference was.

Probably a combination of a lot of things. The old guys being a year older, a new scheme, an offense that can actually score points which forces teams to play more aggressive, sample size, unmotivated. Id probably say old is the biggest reason though.

[gstelmack]

Man, Denver scoring 35 points at THIS stadium with THIS home crowd, that must be an AWESOME offense. Imagine how much they could score when playing away from THIS stadium and THIS crowd with Manning not rattled.

Like last week at New England, they scored ... 31

Hmmm, how about the week before, when they played at friendly home, against this same defense, they must have really racked it up, they scored ... 27

I guess maybe Manning LIKES it loud and LIKES being rattled.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Probably a combination of a lot of things. The old guys being a year older, a new scheme, an offense that can actually score points which forces teams to play more aggressive, sample size, unmotivated. Id probably say old is the biggest reason though.

Old guys are playing well. And the scheme is the same.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Old guys are playing well. And the scheme is the same.

Rather than argue with me about this why dont you just subscribe to Football Outsiders or Pro Football Focus so you can see for yourself. I know people like to believe everything they see but they are bias in their opinions and dont see everything so what people see doesnt tell the entire story.

[EagleFan]

Please tell me that wasn't the same defensive back as the Baltimore playoff game last year. That was a poor decision to stop and jump at that point, take another step.

[RainMaker]

I do subscribe. Football Outsiders have said the Bears are a top 5 team most of the year which should show why their predictions have been so bad this year.

Briggs, Tillman, and Peppers are not why the defense is bad. The team played much better with them on the field than off.

[Galaril]

God Del Rio is not a head coach for sure. Thank god Fox i back on Monday. Never thought I would say that.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Bad jinx, damn it.

I appreciate it. That last drive cost my opponent 7 points from the 49ers d

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Atocep

And I can also contend that without trestman the bears offense is where it's been for the past decade plus (bottom 5) and this team would be 8-8 with a game either way depending on Luck. Without Trestman and with Cutler, Briggs, Melton, and Tilman missing the time they have this team would be lucky to be 6-10.

Really? Wow. I didn't know that Trestman was sooooooooo great that no other OC or offensive-minded coach would have them at 6-6. Gosh. Bears fans should be so grateful that they erect a statue. Right now. I mean it. Chicago Football Hall of Fame. First ballot.

Btw, they scored 20 points against a team rated 30th in defense. You Trestman fans have zero clue about football. Go play Madden.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I do subscribe. Football Outsiders have said the Bears are a top 5 team most of the year which should show why their predictions have been so bad this year.

Briggs, Tillman, and Peppers are not why the defense is bad. The team played much better with them on the field than off.

Bears might have been a top 5 team before Cutler got hurt. He is kind of an important player you know. It is hard for them to adjust for injuries since they use actual data mixed in with projections early in the season.

Briggs has a 2.5 rating
Tillman -6.5
Peppers -2.4

So no they really havent been good but probably better than what else they have. Kind of like if the Vikings keep Adrian Peterson around until he is 40 with Gerhart as his backup. AP would probably still be the best option but maybe someone should have thought about drafting some youth prior to that?

[Desnudo]

Hard to see Denver giving up the one seed now. They should win out.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Btw, they scored 20 points against a team rated 30th in defense. You Trestman fans have zero clue about football. Go play Madden.

Leaving out the part they did it without their starting QB.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Leaving out the part they did it without their starting QB.

Their backup QB has outplayed their starting QB all year.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Btw, they scored 20 points against a team rated 30th in defense. You Trestman fans have zero clue about football. Go play Madden.

We're going there?

The bears put up 480 years with McCown as the QB. Have you forgotten just how bad McCown has been prior to this year?

You obviously sought out this forum to grace us Madden players with your expertise in football. If you would be so kind as to explain to us "Trestman fans" the way the game is supposed to be played I'd like to test it out in Madden and see how much success I have.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Leaving out the part they did it without their starting QB.

And leaving in the part where they still lost to a Ponder/Cassel team. I can play this game all night. Not really. I give up. You can't fix...well...you know.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Bears might have been a top 5 team before Cutler got hurt. He is kind of an important player you know. It is hard for them to adjust for injuries since they use actual data mixed in with projections early in the season.

Briggs has a 2.5 rating
Tillman -6.5
Peppers -2.4

So no they really havent been good but probably better than what else they have. Kind of like if the Vikings keep Adrian Peterson around until he is 40 with Gerhart as his backup. AP would probably still be the best option but maybe someone should have thought about drafting some youth prior to that?

So PFF works for defense but not offense? Howa re they top 5 when McCown is statistically better than Cutler?

And none of those guys you mention are at the bottom of the Bears defenders. They aren't even close to being the worst rated. Like I said, the old guys aren't the problem. It's the young guys dragging them down.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So PFF works for defense but not offense? Howa re they top 5 when McCown is statistically better than Cutler?

And none of those guys you mention are at the bottom of the Bears defenders. They aren't even close to being the worst rated. Like I said, the old guys aren't the problem. It's the young guys dragging them down.

This is getting stupid. Really? Now we are comparing McCown to Cutler? I wonder if the QB guru coach may have some influence of the way McCown is playing. Im done.

[jbergey22]

Good game from the Broncos. As was mentioned above impressive performance putting up 35 with a banged up Manning and Thomas in Arrowhead. That defense though still needs to step up. Cant risk Manning not being superhuman one game in the playoffs and blowing it for that reason.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This is getting stupid. Really? Now we are comparing McCown to Cutler? I wonder if the QB guru coach may have some influence of the way McCown is playing. Im done.

I'm sure he has helped. He would make a nice OC. Just a bad head coach.

Why couldn't the QB guru make Cutler better than McCown though?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm sure he has helped. He would make a nice OC. Just a bad head coach.

Why couldn't the QB guru make Cutler better than McCown though?

Why couldnt the sky have been purple instead of blue? We can go on and on about this ridiculous stuff but I hope we have better things to do.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Good game from the Broncos. As was mentioned above impressive performance putting up 35 with a banged up Manning and Thomas in Arrowhead. That defense though still needs to step up. Cant risk Manning not being superhuman one game in the playoffs and blowing it for that reason.

If the weather is cold, Manning becomes mortal with his old man body. Otherwise it's hard to see Denver losing until the SB.

[B & B]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

If the weather is cold, Manning becomes mortal with his old man body. Otherwise it's hard to see Denver losing until the SB.

Guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.



Oh wait, that's SuperBowl week, when its gonna be freezing.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm sure he has helped. He would make a nice OC. Just a bad head coach.

Why couldn't the QB guru make Cutler better than McCown though?

Well, Cutler was 28th last year and was 17th so far this year. In fact, Cutler hasn't been this high on FO since he ranked 4th as a Bronco in 2008.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Why couldnt the sky have been purple instead of blue? We can go on and on about this ridiculous stuff but I hope we have better things to do.

I don't want a purple sky. I just want a coach who doesn't kick 47 yard field goals on 2nd down.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Jamaal Charles says hi.

And? Sorry, I would have reservations about giving anything up for either of them to be honest. They have both already had torn knees and while they have come back strong, it is no lock they come back from a second.

Running backs are just not that hard to replace. Charles is a special one, but he's under 200 pounds and in this league that can go south quickly.

Good effort from the Chiefs today. Broncos are a walking mash unit at this point. To go into KC without 4 starters and win is a good thing. Without a total implosion the Broncos now win the afc west. Should win the number one seed again. I sure hope the playoff run lasts for more than one game. Teams that consistently get outgained the way theChiefs do rarely stay in games. They have a way of doing it, credit to them.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

If the weather is cold, Manning becomes mortal with his old man body. Otherwise it's hard to see Denver losing until the SB.

Well, he'll be playing his playoff games in Denver, where it may not just be cold, it may be windy and snowing...

[claphamsa]

sick of any talk about Chicago. a mediocre team with, apparently, mediocre fans. do you really want to get into redskins fans territory?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, he'll be playing his playoff games in Denver, where it may not just be cold, it may be windy and snowing...

It depends if they get day games or night games. Definitely a crapshoot though.

[cuervo72]

Hmm. Garcon seems annoyed tonight.

(first at the turf, now with the boot)

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, he'll be playing his playoff games in Denver, where it may not just be cold, it may be windy and snowing...

I relocated from Boston to Denver 6 years past and actually winter here is more like northern cali or Oregon. Sure there can be a blizzard roll thru or a few days of below freezing temps but to be honest temps or more likely to be in the 40s. If other teams want to pin their hopes of beating the Broncos "its gonna be cold in Denver in January so that offense will be grounded" Okay good luck!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Pro Football Focus

Just want to bring this site up. They do some cool stats and I'm sure are valuable. But their player grading is incredibly subjective and graders don't have to have any kind of actual experience. It's helpful but it's still writers from Bleacher Report grading players.

[Lathum]

Wow. Redskins got screwed there.

[hoopsguy]

So glad that Michaels is killing the refs for the clown show going on right now.

Garcon had a truly miserable game with drops and now handing football to the other team.

[hoopsguy]

And if you asked me which ref would botch a game in this manner, it would be that idiot Triplett. I have no idea how he continues to draw a paycheck.

To the best of my knowledge, he has never screwed my team specifically. But I've just seen him and his crews murder games with their slew of inconsistently called penalties that I cringe when I see he is involved with a game.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And if you asked me which ref would botch a game in this manner, it would be that idiot Triplett. I have no idea how he continues to draw a paycheck.

To the best of my knowledge, he has never screwed my team specifically. But I've just seen him and his crews murder games with their slew of inconsistently called penalties that I cringe when I see he is involved with a game.

Yup, The worst ref to ever ref a NFL game IMO.

Certain crews you just know as soon as you see them your game will end up a clusterf-ck and his crew can do it better than any other.

[Lathum]

That was replacement official bad. Worse then the end of the packers Seahawks game last year.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Just want to bring this site up. They do some cool stats and I'm sure are valuable. But their player grading is incredibly subjective and graders don't have to have any kind of actual experience. It's helpful but it's still writers from Bleacher Report grading players.

NBA assists are also subjective. I like them and their grades seem to make sense. Not the perfect system but as far as I know its the best we have currently that discovers unknown variables.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Amazing hold on the texans TD. Of course dierdorf doesn't even mention it.

Those refs were calling less than MLB umpires on get-away day. It's simply not possible to play an NFL game with only 2 penalties (both called on the Texans).

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Big letdown spot for the Pats and appears to be showing.

I was completely unworried heading into halftime down 10 because I knew Belichick+staff vs. Kubiak/Phillips+staff was a bigger mismatch than any talent could overcome. Sure enough, we're literally being accused of spying on Texans' practices because we actually made halftime adjustments

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Down 10...fake punt from inside your own 30. Whoops.

Thanks for handing the game over to the Niners Fisher.

Not just a fake-punt but also a horrible attempt at a (fake?-)reverse. The whole point of a fake punt is that the opposition isn't expecting it and you don't need the misdirection.

Originally Posted by Desnudo

it's hard to see Denver losing until the SB.

Yes, jinx them. Jinx them well...

Originally Posted by TroyF

And? Sorry, I would have reservations about giving anything up for either of them to be honest. They have both already had torn knees and while they have come back strong, it is no lock they come back from a second.

Running backs are just not that hard to replace. Charles is a special one, but he's under 200 pounds and in this league that can go south quickly.

Good effort from the Chiefs today. Broncos are a walking mash unit at this point. To go into KC without 4 starters and win is a good thing. Without a total implosion the Broncos now win the afc west. Should win the number one seed again. I sure hope the playoff run lasts for more than one game. Teams that consistently get outgained the way theChiefs do rarely stay in games. They have a way of doing it, credit to them.

I can get behind the sentiment that no RB is worth a 1st round pick, but putting it on Charles' weight is wildly misguided as there is no statistical link between size and injury propensity. The guy is a well above-average pass catcher who literally has the highest YPC in NFL history. Dismissing him at all due to his size is the only reason he fell so low in the draft or wasn't given the feature carries he should have been in his first couple seasons.

PS - I'll try not to shed any tears for the Broncos and their injuries

[DaddyTorgo]

Broncos only missing 4 starters??

Geez that must be nice.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I can get behind the sentiment that no RB is worth a 1st round pick, but putting it on Charles' weight is wildly misguided as there is no statistical link between size and injury propensity. The guy is a well above-average pass catcher who literally has the highest YPC in NFL history. Dismissing him at all due to his size is the only reason he fell so low in the draft or wasn't given the feature carries he should have been in his first couple seasons.

This is probably the thing I dislike most about the current NFL. The backs are being devalued more every single year. You are right though if all of the players got thrown back into a pool for redraft I doubt AD or Charles would go prior to the 3rd round.

Running back position has turned into more of a luxury position rather than a need position.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yup, The worst ref to ever ref a NFL game IMO.
...
.

Only because they forced Phil Luckett into off of the field and into the booth and effective retirement.

But you're right that Triplette and his crew are the worst of the current lot. I had hopes that the scoring system agreed to last year would start to pay, but maybe Triplette has too much seniority to be overcome so quickly.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This is probably the thing I dislike most about the current NFL. The backs are being devalued more every single year. You are right though if all of the players got thrown back into a pool for redraft I doubt AD or Charles would go prior to the 3rd round.

Running back position has turned into more of a luxury position rather than a need position.

Unless you're one of these backs (highly unlikely, no offense ), related to them, an agent, or a bitter fantasy football owner I don't see what's to dislike about the trend. I'd much rather watch a tactical battle where all 22 players have a role on each play than a glorified pop warner game where the coaches hand it off to their best athlete 30-40 times and hope he's better than the opponent.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Unless you're one of these backs (highly unlikely, no offense ), related to them, an agent, or a bitter fantasy football owner I don't see what's to dislike about the trend. I'd much rather watch a tactical battle where all 22 players have a role on each play than a glorified pop warner game where the coaches hand it off to their best athlete 30-40 times and hope he's better than the opponent.

Haha, you would be right

I guess I feel the same way about passing the football as you do about running the ball in pop warner. I see all of these large, fast, and athletic wide recievers and I cant figure out how the NFL expects these corners to have any chance against them with the current rules. I dont see passing as being a tactic as much as I see "my guy is bigger, faster, and stronger than your guy so Im gonna chuck it his way". I guess I like to watch games where I feel the offense can actually be stopped by the defense and not only by penalties and turnovers. A lot of these games arent that way anymore. If Denver went full throttle without penalties and turnovers bogging them down they would put up 50 per game. I dont like when refs have this much control because they arent consistent.

And yes, fantasy football is also more fun when you can actually count on some consistent production from a back every once in awhile

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Broncos only missing 4 starters??

Geez that must be nice.

If I included all the guys from day one on, it's a lot worse, but I know the Pats have been hit hard too. The Broncos finished the rough stretch 3-1 and played the Pats to a draw in NE. (freaking Welker on the payroll)


As for Charles, the guy has played 16 games most of the time (despite the one year he was hurt.) I guess for me it's about team building. I don't want to pay a RB a good chunk of my cap. Any RB.

[TroyF]

Next week looks to have a good slate of games:

Colts @ Bengals
Lions @ Eagles
Hawks @ Niners
Panthers @ Saints

Not a bad grouping.

[SirFozzie]

If you told me preseason we would be missing all the Pats that are injured and somehow we'd be in position to clinch the division in Week 14 (with four games left to play).. I would'be said you're nuts.

I don't expect them to go far in the playoffs, there's just too many holes in the D, but, this actually might have been Bill Belichick's best coaching job.

Oh, and speaking of BB... there's a reason the Texans are 2-10.

Antonio Smith of Houston Texans 'very suspicious' of New England Patriots - ESPN

You have players saying "The other team must have cheated", because they made halftime adjustments that worked. If so, then it's a grand conspiracy against the Texans, because EVERYONE seems to be playing better in the second half against them. When the Colts came back against them, was THAT cheating? (although at least part of that the coach collapsed at halftime)

Unless there's more then this, it's rationalizing by a mentally weak team desperate to rationalize why when things start to go bad against them, they don't find a way to win.

[RendeR]

OK so here I go posting my overly optimistic opinion of what COULD happen for my Bengals. Will it? Probably not, but this is my BEST case scenario:


Bengals win out: Not unfounded, toughest game is the colts at home next week. Pittsburgh is playing better but they are just not a complete team and that defense is showing its age badly. They have to avoid letdown games the following two weeks against inferior opponents leading to a week 17 match-up against, what I think, will be an already out of the hunt Ravens squad.

Ravens: At this point they MUST win out to have any real shot at the division or the wildcard. Their schedule compared to others is not favorable to them. Division Belongs to the Bengals.

The Kansas City Chiefs have been exposed on defense. I think they drop 2 of their last 4 and end up 11-5 at best. I think they still get in at the 5 seed.

New England drops 1 of 4 minimum and possibly both road games. The Ravens/NE rivalry isn't dead but both teams are a lot weaker than they've ever been recently.


If these things happen (big IF yes I know) The playoffs in the AFC look like this:

1: Denver
2: Cincinnati
3: New England
4: Indianapolis
5: Kansas City
6: Miami


Wild Card:
Miami goes to New England and Loses, its a snow game and they keep the plows off the field, it doesn't help as the Pats won't blow this one at home anyway.

Kansas City Goes to Indy, Colts win and win impressively. The home field and the prospect of going back to Denver simply breaks the chiefs spirit.

Division Round:
Indianapolis goes into Denver and Luck picks apart a seemingly flawed Denver D while Manning makes it a stunning finish only to be heartbroken again. Colts advance.

New England comes back to Cincinnati for a rematch. The Bengals defense gives the ball to Dalton more times than Dalton can give it away. Bengals win a nail-biter.

AFC Championship:
TheColts return to Cincinnati who hold home field and the Bengals run game takes over. Bengals win and roll into NYC as the AFC Champs.


Yes its very optimistic, but based on the defensive play and the schedule everyone has, its a definitely plausible scenario.


Let the heckling commence.

[Desnudo]

I think the unfortunate flaw in your argument is that Luck has no one to pick them apart with.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think the unfortunate flaw in your argument is that Luck has no one to pick them apart with.

With no running game, protection issues and a thin receiving corps, I think Kansas City would steamroll Indy wherever they play.