06-30-2019, 10:51 PM | #151 | |
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Agree! Iggy is a perfect fit for GS with his unselfishness and great defense. I think they lose out on this. |
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06-30-2019, 10:53 PM | #152 |
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Oof, that loss hurts. Iguodala is so freaking good. The team really needed to get younger though, so I guess that's a silver lining.
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06-30-2019, 10:58 PM | #153 |
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He needs to be on a championship contender. Not a guy I would have traded if your goal is championships. He sacrificed his scoring and starting spot to be part of winning. The league needs more players like Iggy.
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06-30-2019, 11:17 PM | #154 |
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Receiving Russell in a sign and trade hard caps them this year. They had to trade Iggy
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06-30-2019, 11:22 PM | #155 | |
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Agree, this is a really weird move for the Ws, all around. Do they see something in D'Lo the rest of us are missing? He's a volume shooter with a decent shot. Having to carry the Nets last year, he put up strong numbers, but he seems a poor fit on the Ws with his play style and their culture
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06-30-2019, 11:32 PM | #156 | |
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I think the other option (probably the one I would have taken) is not make the trade and let KD walk. Feels like the Warriors really don't want to waste a year of Curry which I totally get, but it also feels like a bit of a desperation move that sort of signals the end of the Warriors dynasty. Maybe I'm overreacting, though.
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06-30-2019, 11:48 PM | #157 |
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Knicks make up for losing out on everyone by locking up 3 guys who play the same position in Randle, Taj, and Portis. That should make the fan base happy...
(...although I think the Randle signing is decent for the $$$ involved given some of the other contracts that were signed today)
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07-01-2019, 12:17 AM | #158 |
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I think obviously you piece out Russell next summer or sooner. He's a merc and probably knows it. They will be able to figure it out.
Mirotic leaving a fuckload of cash on the table is about as dumb as Collison spending his time ringing doorbell. |
07-01-2019, 12:36 AM | #159 | |
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I think it's really a three-fold thing:
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07-01-2019, 01:39 AM | #160 | |
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The NBA should take the Knicks away from Dolan. What a sad joke they have become. |
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07-01-2019, 02:03 AM | #161 |
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I’m calling Kawhi to the Lakers cause 2019 doesn’t suck enough already.
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07-01-2019, 02:18 AM | #162 |
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Jimmy Butler s&t apparently borked
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07-01-2019, 11:08 AM | #163 | |
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Not going to play for room and board for Barcelona Allegedly going to get about 15 mio $ for 3 years net salary and a player option for another 5.5+. Dunno how exactly that translates to gross numbers in the US, but i would guess it is the equivalent to a 4 year, 45 mio contract from what little i looked up.
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07-01-2019, 11:35 AM | #164 |
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Who is working harder to find a third team in this trade? Sixes, Heat, Butler’s agent, or Dragic’s agent?
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07-01-2019, 11:38 AM | #165 |
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Annnnndddd, Wojnis saying Whiteside to Portland for Harkless and Leonard.
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07-01-2019, 11:57 AM | #166 |
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Interesting to see what people think of Whiteside, never made it to being the superstar based on defense that it looked like he might be at one point, and his counting stats are down the last couple of years (because of Adebayo?), but advanced stats show he's still a useful player and wonder if he just needs a change of scenery?
Heat fans or anyone who has watched him more regularly? Seems like a bit of a gamble for Portland but you can see why they did it. |
07-01-2019, 01:59 PM | #167 | |||
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That Tobias Harris contract also seems wayyy too high, but we all said that last time and it turns out that was a very tradeable contract! Just like when the Celtics signed Horford and people would say he was overpaid because he was making $29 million when he should be making $26 million or something - once you're locking in a core that'll be over the salary cap you can't be haggling for $3-4m less than max when other bad teams will offer a full max. Quote:
He also gave a interview kind of throwing the Warriors training staff under the bus regarding KD, said he also had a fractured leg 2 playoffs ago the Warriors kept calling a bone bruise, so idk if there were some behind the scenes tension between him & the front office/ownership. Quote:
But if Mirotic wants to go be one of the top Euroleague players and have a team build around him instead of being a glorified role player and potentially being traded most years I completely get it, good for him. |
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07-01-2019, 02:04 PM | #168 |
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Whiteside is a useful player. The problem is he is also a max player. To him that meant the offense needed to run through him and everyone else had to fit in with him. When it did not run though him, he would sulk and distance himself from the team.
I think the Blazers are going to get the best version of Whiteside. First, he is in a contract year. Second , Portland has established stars like Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum to make him a clear #3 on the offense end. I don't think we'll see too many incidents where he is trying to out maneuver someone in the post when the play is to hit a guard curling off a pick for a three. If he is the guy that has a defense first attitude and is a rim runner, he will excel. If he starts to bring up the Blazers' tradition of great big men and compares himself to Bill Walton, they should be very worried.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
07-01-2019, 02:07 PM | #169 |
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Celtics also sign Enes Kanter! Ok, it's not that exciting, but when I saw the headline I was terrified we semi-panicked and gave him a big deal. For 2/$10 with a player option (I think the 2nd year is the player option, not a potential 3rd year, but kind of unclear from phrasing) that's about as good of a pivot we could make once Horford didn't want to stay. He can at least anchor some bench units, and even if both Grant and Robert Williams show they're ready for real minutes you can just bury Kanter or trade him to someone near the deadline who needs another proven playoff big.
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07-01-2019, 02:21 PM | #170 | |
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Purely wanted to point out the difference of 'advertising'/perception, quite a few (not all) European clubs and media tend to publicise the net salary after Income Tax, while all NBA contracts are raw numbers the franchise pays. Merely wanted to point that out that when you read about him getting 4-5.5 mio (4, 4.5, 5, then a 5.5 player option) it's really net salary and would be very close to the NBA numbers estimated for him if they used the gross salary like is common in the US. Basically Barcelona pays about 40 mio for 4 years if you used pre-tax numbers. (Tax at 45% in spain is actually fairly similar once you consider local taxes in Addition to federal in the US)
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07-01-2019, 02:30 PM | #171 | |
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According to this (which is a year out of date) Alexey Shved was the only player making over $3m/y net, so this likely does make Mirotic the highest paid player in Europe The Top 10 EuroLeague salaries | Eurohoops (And again, unlike Darren Collison leaving money on the table to ring doorbells I very much understand Nikola Mirotic deciding he'll take half the money to be the man in a great city instead of a guy getting yo-yo'd around. |
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07-01-2019, 02:31 PM | #172 |
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After all these moves, my crazy thoughts:
1. Nets are a middling playoff team next year, and I don't believe they will win a title with this group. 2. The Sixers have a weird mix right now which will be very attackable in the playoffs, as they are too long to handle fast-paced smaller teams with a ton of shooters. I also think they will regret the Horford deal. 3. The Bucks are still the best team in the East, and the Raptors will be right along side of them ahead of all these others if Kawhi returns. 4. Boston is actually better now than they were last year, proof that sometimes it's not about being the most talented but about heing able to work well in a team framework. 5. If Kawhi doesn't sign with the Lakers, Utah will be the #1 seed in the west. 6. I'm biased, but I think the Clippers made a terrific move in bringing back Beverly, and I think doing so helps their case with Kawhi. 7. I am reading rumors that the W's intend to deal D'Lo in the long run for assets that actually works in their system, and that makes a lot more sense to me than doing a S&T for D'Lo and then keeping him.
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07-01-2019, 03:31 PM | #173 |
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To jump off on a couple of those, assuming KD is sitting out all of 2019-20 I think Kyrie is at best a 50% chance to play 50 games and I'd be shorting the Nets & Lakers if anyone is giving real odds yet.
I don't think the Celtics record will be much different next year, and his contract could be bad by year 3, but yeah we're worse without Horford. Hayward will be better from the start, and I love Grant Williams, but is either of them, Enes Kanter, Robert Williams III, or whatever bargain big we add going to defend Joel Embiid or Giannis in the pick and roll? Dealing D'Lo in the long run for assets does make sense, but I'm also excited to see Russell play for Golden State & think people are selling him short. His shot selection and low FTA rate isn't ideal, but he's always been a really good passer and he's enough of a threat off the dribble you have to respect it. A D'Angelo Russell/Draymond pick & roll with Steph & Klay spotting up & Kevon Looney or whomever cutting to the dunker spot? Good luck defending that. For all of KD's individual brilliance it did seem like he existed outside of their normal offense and always preferred more iso-heavy play. |
07-01-2019, 03:52 PM | #174 |
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How funny for me to be positioned to talk you up on the Celtics, Bishop.
I think Kyrie and Rozier were not good teammates and bad fits for what Stephens likes to do. I think this is addition by subtraction. Kemba seems more like a team guy, and did the scoring in Charlotte really because he had to. He'll still score a lot in Boston, but I think he will be a better fit within the offense. I think Tatum and Brown will both make decent leaps next year as players, and I think Hayward will be a lot closer to what he was when they signdd him away from Utah. Horford unlike Kyrie was a great teammate and fit well in Boston. The Celtics will miss his presence and his defense. That said, his D vs Giannis didn't stop a 4-1 series loss to the Bucks. Paying a near max deal to a 33 year old is bad business. The Celtics were smart to not fight to keep him at that price. Kanter is a worse defensive player but a better offensive player. His PER was also better than Horford's, both with NY and POR-- and Horford's PER last year was the best he has had in years. Kanter's was more in line with his usual. Your D will suffer, yes, but Kanter will help in other ways. I think the Celtics will have a better reg season record but go about the same round in the playoffs. I could see them being #3 and losing to the Sixers or Raptors in the 2nd round.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 07-01-2019 at 03:54 PM. |
07-01-2019, 04:32 PM | #175 | |
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Glad my blue and gold tinted glasses aren't the only one excited to see what Russell can do in this system with this team. |
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07-01-2019, 04:32 PM | #176 | |
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Glad my blue and gold tinted glasses aren't the only one excited to see what Russell can do in this system with this team. |
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07-01-2019, 05:31 PM | #177 | |
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Kanter is a better scorer. Horford is a much better player overall offensively because of his ability to stretch the floor and pass. Horford was 5th among centers in ORPM while Kanter was 16. Kanter is also one of the worst defenders in the entire NBA. He was 2nd to last among centers in DRPM last year (59th out of 65 the year before). He's a decent player to have around in the regular season as a bench big, but when rotations tighten in the playoffs he's nearly unplayable. |
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07-01-2019, 05:40 PM | #178 | |
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I think Brown (& Tatum to an extent) were back pretty close to their 2018 playoff form from like December on after a terrible start, and I agree Gordon Hayward should be more back than he was even by the end of the year. Your guess is as good as mine if Tatum will improve his shot selection & FTA rate or keep hanging out with Kobe. But as much as yes a 4 year max to a 33y/o big could be bad business, Al Horford is a much, much, much better player than Enes Kanter or any other big we will have. Not just defensively but also offensively - Horford was a great fit because he can do a little bit of everything well, Kanter doesn't shoot 3's or pass the ball. Grant Williams is closer to a Horford replacement than Kanter - Kanter is a better Greg Monroe. He'll be a good fulcrum vs bench units when Kemba is out, he is much better at offensive rebounding/2nd chance points than Horford (at the cost of transition defense, but w/e), and Stevens has expanded the skillsets of limited role players before, but no we will not be running the offense through Enes Kanter picka and pop's or handoffs at the elbows & asking him to quickly make reads or transfer balls side to side. I hate the 76ers but I'll keep fighting on the "Al Horford is underrated" wall - he's rarely flashy, he has no ego, and he does literally everything at a B level which is invaluable in today's NBA. No point in even prognosticating the East until the other chips fall, but yeah I don't know who is #3 behind Milwaukee/Philly (unless of course Kawhi/Danny Green re-up in Toronto.) There's definitely 6-8 teams that think they'll have a chance, and pretty much everyone except the Knicks, Hornets, and Magic if they don't re-sign Vucevic should have a chance at the playoffs. |
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07-01-2019, 05:43 PM | #179 |
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I will say his playoff run in Portland post-Nurkic injury showed that in the right matchup he doesn't need to be completely benched in the playoffs, but yeah, there's a reason the 26 year old is signing a 2/$10 deal while the 33 year old is signing for 4/$140 or whatever.
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07-01-2019, 07:11 PM | #180 |
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Final trade results
Heat: Butler, Meyers Leonard (Don’t want any confusion with the other Leonard) Sixers: Richardson Blazers: Whiteside Clippers: Harkless, MIA 2023 1st round pick
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07-01-2019, 07:11 PM | #181 |
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Sounds like Kawhi to the Lakers is happening.
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07-01-2019, 07:50 PM | #182 |
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07-01-2019, 07:57 PM | #183 | |
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I'm not entirely sure that LAC didn't win this trade ... damned near by accident
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07-01-2019, 08:31 PM | #184 | |
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The biggest difference is that the NFL, MLB and NHL are run by the teams and their general managers. The NBA is run by the players. Which in theory is a good idea, but when you get a bunch of players organizing superteams together, it devalues the entire system. |
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07-01-2019, 08:37 PM | #185 |
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Are the Lakers a super team?
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07-01-2019, 08:40 PM | #186 |
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Well if you put Kawhi there with James & Davis then, on paper, that ought to qualify.
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07-01-2019, 08:52 PM | #187 | |
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I guess. But wasn't it a week ago we were saying that teams should have learned the lesson of the Raptors and build a deep roster?
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07-01-2019, 09:12 PM | #188 |
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07-01-2019, 09:20 PM | #189 | |
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You didn't ask how well I thought it would work. You just asked if the Lakers were a "superteam". Even if they get their third superstar, I'm not call them favorites to win the West, much less the title.
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07-01-2019, 09:31 PM | #190 | |
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Ok, there is the disconnect.
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07-01-2019, 09:34 PM | #191 |
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IMO it's not the best fit, especially when the only other guy they have (Kuzma) is a PF. Do they go massive with Kawhi playing the 2 spot with a warm body at PG? I mean, yeah, they are arguably all top 5 players, but I don't think this fits as nicely as Wade-LeBron-Bosh did. If the big 3 stay healthy they might win 60 games, but wear and tear will be massive, and they are going to need to do a Golden State Warrior-esque job at uncovering a couple of unsigned/undrafted young guys to fill roles immediately.
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07-01-2019, 09:48 PM | #192 | |
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Oh well, here I was ready to say either Toronto or the Clippers were the favorites if Kawhi signed there, now we definitely have the most wide open season in awhile. I guess Milwaukee without Brogdon is still the actual favorite? Btw did I see the Lakers will set an NBA record with a full 10 minimum salary guys on their roster? I guess we were bound to see the stars & scrubs idea pushed to its absolute limit eventually, I just hope teams take it personally and don't let them get decent buyout guys. |
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07-01-2019, 09:56 PM | #193 | |
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Well Lebron, Kawhi, and Davis are probably interchangeable at the 2-5 positions and even at the PG position they can get a defensive guy like Beverly that doesnt need to do much except play perimeter defense. I suppose they would prefer to have Kawhi/Lebron at the 2 & 3 with Davis playing the 4 and have a guy like Bogut playing the 5. Them 3 wouldnt be overly hard to put together a cheap team around and get value from the cheap players. A couple defensive point guards, a couple decent shooters at the 2/3 for depth, an athletic PF that just has to rebound and a couple aging centers would probably make for a nice team as long as the big 3 can stay on the court. Anthony Davis is super injury prone however and cant imagine him playing more than 65 games which leaves them real weak at the 4/5 areas when he is out. Last edited by jbergey22 : 07-01-2019 at 10:01 PM. |
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07-01-2019, 10:30 PM | #194 |
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07-01-2019, 11:31 PM | #195 |
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Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to watch, I can't believe 3 of the top 6-8 players in the league won't be completely dominant. I think you have to see if you can flip Kuzma for another player on a rookie deal, almost impossible but it's not ideal having the only other decent player on your team whose natural position you go 2-3 deep at. In hindsight you wonder if they wouldn't have rather hung onto Hart and one (or two) of the picks, even though Kuzma is by far the better player.
You'd think they will get another shooter like Ellington or Korver to sign up and take some minutes, PG is going to be a huge hole and there just don't seem to be many options out there. Injuries are going to be the biggest thing to watch for, chances all 3 stay on the court for 80+ games including the playoffs? |
07-02-2019, 12:37 AM | #196 |
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I'm biased but I haven't given up on the Clippers landing Kawhi.
I think the narrative is being controlled by the one guy talking-- Magic Johnson. Kawhi and his people are notorious for not speaking to anyone, Ujiri in Toronto and Jerry West and crew with the ippers are too smart to get involved in a leaked source media war, and the actual Lakers front office swore off speaking to the media about 3-4 months ago because they were getting criticized so much. Meanwhile, all Magic wants to do is talk and be relevant again. So he's talking. That doesn't mean Kawhi's automatically going to the Lakers.
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07-02-2019, 07:30 AM | #197 | |
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I'm curious to see what the prop bet over/under on that figure is. My guess is somewhere in the low/mid 60s at best (for games where all three start)
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07-02-2019, 08:42 AM | #198 | |
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Part of it is due to the cap, but NBA players show a remarkable propensity for getting together on one team, taking less money to do so, all to get a ring. |
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07-02-2019, 10:13 AM | #199 |
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I don't blame the players but it sucks if you aren't a fan of a chosen team. I can't see the Pistons being competitive for a long time.
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07-02-2019, 10:20 AM | #200 |
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I've wondered if the NBA would do better without a max salary. I can see pros and cons to it.
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