NFL 2018 Season Thread

[bhlloy]

I dunno. If you throw in the Brown trade which was completely unconnected, sure. I still think the Mack deal (in which they specifically targeted the Bears because they thought the pick would be high) was a terrible one. Getting Brown for Cooper is a good exchange obviously, even if I'd have concerns about the circus around him and the Raiders could be the worst possible destination outside of New York.

[stevew]

Roger's man hugs are out of control

[Izulde]

Seeing a lot of places where Rosen is close to going to Miami. Dolphins want another asset if they're giving up #48 and prefer to only trade #73. Cardinals want #48 and nothing in addition to Rosen.

Even if it ends up 48 for Rosen alone, what a complete clusterfuck of handling Rosen this has been for Arizona from start to finish.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that the Rosen thing's a good move for Miami.

Here's my very lukewarm take that will allow me to quantify my pro-Rosen-ness:

I predict that Rosen will finish in the top 15 in Football Outsider's QBR for at least one season before his rookie deal expires.

[Izulde]

Yeah I'm fine with it for a mid-2nd round pick. Worth the flier and frees them up to look at other needs if he pans out.

[molson]

Dolphins should hold out for Rosen for #73. Arizona waited until after the other teams with QB needs drafted QBs in the first round.

[tarcone]

Interesting insider take on Drew Lock.
A friend from work is good friends with a DC in the NFL. Seems Lock is a prima donna. Entitled and not much of a leader.

I see him sliding pretty far.

[Thomkal]

Cards GM Steve Keim-"Bottom line is, Josh is a really good football player," Keim said. "We're not going to get in the business of just letting good football players walk out of here."-yeah letting your franchise QB go for a 2nd rounder one year after drafting him is not just walking

[tarcone]

Think the Broncos would use one or both of their 2nd round picks to get Rosen?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by molson

Dolphins should hold out for Rosen for #73. Arizona waited until after the other teams with QB needs drafted QBs in the first round.

This, especially when you look at what the Steelers got for Antonio Brown in a similar situation where everyone knew they had to trade him. For all the talk of waiting for somebody to get injured in preseason, a future pick isn't going to help keep Kingsbury and Keim employed past the next couple of season.

[Thomkal]

2019 NFL Draft rumors: Cardinals didn't shop Josh Rosen until right before draft, and the price was steep - CBSSports.com


I'm done with Keim

[bhlloy]

You never know what the true story is behind the scenes, but I think we know enough to know that Keim is astonishingly incompetent.

[bhlloy]

If the Rosen deal happens, it will now be for a late second rounder

[Izulde]

Love it. Move down, still stay in the 2nd, and grab an extra 2nd for next year (plus a 6th but that's whatever)

[Izulde]

48 turns into Rosen, 2020 2nd round pick, 2020 5th round pick, 6th round pick this year.

Fucking BEAUTIFUL.

[NobodyHere]

Rock Ya-Sin is the best name for a NFL player ever.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Rock Ya-Sin is the best name for a NFL player ever.

Agreed.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Izulde

48 turns into Rosen, 2020 2nd round pick, 2020 5th round pick, 6th round pick this year.

Fucking BEAUTIFUL.

Sigh, how is that a good trade for the Cards? You had all winter to trade Rosen and that's the best you can do?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Sigh, how is that a good trade for the Cards? You had all winter to trade Rosen and that's the best you can do?

That's a fair possibility IMO.

In a stronger QB draft the Cards would have been overpaying.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On the whole, considering the draft is pretty much the last time I'll ever have any interest in these players, I've been fairly entertained by skimming the draft's first two rounds. Amusement counts as entertainment after all.

There's more comedy this year than I can recall in quite a while. Reaches & overdrafts abound, nary a QB I believe will ever win a playoff game (no predictions about reaching the playoffs from me though, 8-8 can be enough & that doesn't require top flight QB play)

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Sigh, how is that a good trade for the Cards? You had all winter to trade Rosen and that's the best you can do?

The worst part is the Cards already paid his signing bonus - they basically just gave a #10 pick the previous year away for free to another team. If it was for some legendary coach who wanted to bring his own guy in, maybe I can see it. For a guy like Kingsbury who was basically a very good college offensive coordinator and a bad head coach, with zero NFL experience? Yeah, I'd have told him he's going with Rosen or he can stuff it.

That is unless they saw something last year with Rosen that tells them he's just not going to be an NFL QB, but I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest that's the case.

[tarcone]

And the Cardinals drafted him without a No-baseball clause. He could be gone and then the organization will be screwed.

[Chief Rum]

I could see the argument that they decided they didn't want Rosen to be their guy, from dealing with him every day. After all, on top of his noted outspoken ways, Rosen is often described as arrogant and thinking he's the smartest guy in the room. He sometimes says the right things but also then says or does petty things.

His UCLA teammates all seemed to be fine with him, but maybe that wasn't the case with the vets on the Cards. From that perspective, it makes me wonder if Rosen will learn more tact in handling vets and the press before he is bombed out of the league.

If he gets out of his own way and focuses on becoming a great QB, he has all the physical and mental tools to become a top 10, even top 5 QB. But he could remain a precocious brat, too, and never get his teammates on his side.

Regardless, rhe Cards shipped off their best actual and potential QB and drafted a guy for an offense that is questionable to work in the NFL, and whose size suggests he might be crushed and killed in his first real game.

[Atocep]

If you're going to hire a guy like Kingsbury you have to give him every opportunity to succeed and that means let him pick his QB. The Cardinals may have botched how they handled Rosen this offseason, but trading him was the right call. Keeping him with Kingbury is setting both up for failure.

I'm not a big Kyler Murray believer and I'm not really a Rosen believer either, but both are now in solid situations with a chance to succeed.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If you're going to hire a guy like Kingsbury you have to give him every opportunity to succeed and that means let him pick his QB. The Cardinals may have botched how they handled Rosen this offseason, but trading him was the right call. Keeping him with Kingbury is setting both up for failure.

I'm not a big Kyler Murray believer and I'm not really a Rosen believer either, but both are now in solid situations with a chance to succeed.

Two first round QB's in two consecutive seasons tells me either the owner or the GM is not competent.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Two first round QB's in two consecutive seasons tells me either the owner or the GM is not competent.

Or Both?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Two first round QB's in two consecutive seasons tells me either the owner or the GM is not competent.

Not going to defend either, but that's looking at things without context. With context dumping Rosen to draft a guy Kingsbury wants makes sense. Does anyone really think Rosen would run that offense with any success?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Not going to defend either, but that's looking at things without context. With context dumping Rosen to draft a guy Kingsbury wants makes sense. Does anyone really think Rosen would run that offense with any success?

You need to be incompetent to get to that point - some combination of drafting Rosen, hiring Wilks, firing Wilks after one year.

If all of those things are forgiven, then maybe hiring Kingsbury, letting him call the shots at QB, and dumping Murray makes sense in a vacuum, we'll see.

There are those NBA and NFL teams you wonder how they can stay so bad when they pick at the top of the draft every year, this looks like the early stages of that. Would it be any surprise if Kingsbury and Rosen flame out in two or three years and we do this all again? Maybe at that point cutting them loose will be a good idea, again in a vacuum, but when these bad decisions start to stack like this it can really screw up a franchise.

[PilotMan]

Happy to see NDSU QB Easton Stick go to the Chargers in the 5th. That's another big feather in the cap for the school.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Or Both?

For sure. Hopefully I'm wrong and this sudden change in direction will actually get this team progressing.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Happy to see NDSU QB Easton Stick go to the Chargers in the 5th. That's another big feather in the cap for the school.

The only thing I wanted for Christmas 1991 (or was it 1990?) was an Easton stick. The old gold aluminum hockey stick that is.

Bravo to Easton Stick's parents on an outstanding name. Probably should have been a hockey player though.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by molson

You need to be incompetent to get to that point - some combination of drafting Rosen, hiring Wilks, firing Wilks after one year.

If all of those things are forgiven, then maybe hiring Kingsbury, letting him call the shots at QB, and dumping Murray makes sense in a vacuum, we'll see.

There are those NBA and NFL teams you wonder how they can stay so bad when they pick at the top of the draft every year, this looks like the early stages of that. Would it be any surprise if Kingsbury and Rosen flame out in two or three years and we do this all again? Maybe at that point cutting them loose will be a good idea, again in a vacuum, but when these bad decisions start to stack like this it can really screw up a franchise.

For the record, I think Keim is a terrible GM and Kingsbury was a bad hire.

I'm not sure what I would have done in their shoes. You definitely have to trade Rosen prior to the draft. No one thought we were going to see Rosen running RPOs in the Kingsbury offense so by holding onto him they just painted themselves into a corner on draft day.

The smart play would have probably been trade Rosen prior to the draft, take Bosa at 1 or force the 49ers to trade up for him, and then look at one of the spread/air raid QBs later in the draft (Stidham or Grier). The Cardinals are unlikely to win many games this year no matter what, so building up the roster and positioning yourself for a much better QB class would have been better in the long run. Keim may feel that hiring a guy like Kingsbury and drafting Murray buys him time to fix the mess he created though.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm not sure what I would have done in their shoes.

I'm just going back a little further in the evaluation than you. What they could have done is not draft Rosen or hire Steve Wilks if they were going to turn on both so quickly. It was a total waste of a year and of a top 10 draft pick.

The Kingsbury/Murray combo doesn't inspire a ton of confidence for me. It just doesn't scream, "oh my god we have to blow up everything - Kingsbury is available!!" And maybe in 2 years it will make sense, at that time, to cut both loose and draft another QB in the top 10. Even if that's the right decision then, they still got to that point through their own incompetence (if that's how things go).

[stevew]

Gettlemen press conferences are the best.

[QuikSand]

Honestly, what I want at this point out of NFL teams that I don't even semi root for is:

-palace intrigue, usually of the "WTF are they doing?" variety
-something interesting to watch on-field from time to time
-players relevant for fantasy leagues, especially based on "inside" info

Right now, the Cardinals are GREAT for all this, so hats off fellas, keep on keepin' on.

[albionmoonlight]

Saints had a boring but productive draft with a minimum of picks.

Unger retired, so they drafted the best C to replace him.

They were weak at safety depth, so they jumped on one who fell.

And . . . that's it. Just fill some holes and try not to fall behind.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Honestly, what I want at this point out of NFL teams that I don't even semi root for is:

-palace intrigue, usually of the "WTF are they doing?" variety
-something interesting to watch on-field from time to time
-players relevant for fantasy leagues, especially based on "inside" info

Right now, the Cardinals are GREAT for all this, so hats off fellas, keep on keepin' on.

Yeah, clearly moving on from coaches and top 10 drafted QB's after one season isn't a good long term strategy, but as a neutral fan I'm actually interested to watch the Kliff/Kyler(/Andy Isabella!) Air Raid show. The Dave Gettleman era in New York is also amazing!

Patriots draft was highlighted by the 1st 1st round WR of the Belichick era in N'Keal Harry, who I love. Belichick and the brain trust are clearly all-in on the big WR/CB era (also picking 6'4 211 CB Joejuan Williams early 2nd despite DB's being our deepest position group), but Harry seems to have better speed with the ball in his hands, is a precise route runner, and goes up and gets the ball too. Also added a QB in the 4th I've always like in Jarrett Stidham, which is a great spot to see if he develops in 2-3 years instead of picking a QB high & anointing them a Brady successor. I didn't love Chase Winovich's production at Michigan, but man he has a chance to quickly become the most hated Patriot if he pans out. Got some nice OL depth too. And just like last draft where people were predicting a QB to the Patriots every pick, they actually managed to go all 7 rounds without picking any TE. I'll choose to assume this is because they think Gronk will be back in November, not that they actually think Austin Sefarian-Jenkins is the answer

[albionmoonlight]

Chuck Klosterman had an article or an interview once where he noted that football is both the most progressive and the most conservative sport we have. And, with that framing in mind, I present the Arizona Cardinals.

On the one hand, super progressive: Hiring a coach who failed in college and drafting a QB #1 overall whose measurables would have had him undraftable as a QB 10 years ago. And everyone is totally on board with this idea--try to be five years ahead of the curve. Care more about the plays your coach can draw up than whether he could recruit to Texas Tech. Care more about your QBs arms and legs and brain than his height. Progressive. Cutting edge.

Then you also have this:

The Espn Arizona guy was just on Wqam and said Rosen had outside interests that some people were concerned about. When asked like what he answered “environmentalism. He’s really into the environment. He asked adidas to make his shoe out of recycled plastics”.

What a monster

— Lane (@Lane_) April 29, 2019

Cardinals staffers agreeing that Josh Rosen needed to go because he believed in things like recycling, and they didn't want that radicalism spreading to the rest of the team.

It is the most conservative and the most progressive sport we have.

[JPhillips]

I can't remember the player that had a scouting report leak calling into question his abilities because he was raised by women.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I can't remember the player that had a scouting report leak calling into question his abilities because he was raised by women.

Makes sense. If I'm an NFL team looking for a QB, my list of desirable candidate backgrounds is probably something like this.

Raised by:
1. Nuclear family
2. Single father
3. Grandparents
4. Uncle
5. Single mother aka community outreach programs while mom worked
6. Wolves
7. 'Women'
8. Environmentalists
9. Homosexuals

[cartman]

On my list I'd move wolves to #3

[stevew]

Telvin Smith quitting is kind of odd. He’ll have to pay back 2.4 million or so. Just seems financially reckless

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

Telvin Smith quitting is kind of odd. He’ll have to pay back 2.4 million or so. Just seems financially reckless

It's 2019 and the player empowerment era. When he indicates a desire to play some new team will trade for him and give him a market value contract like he didn't just take a year off.

(Obviously I also hope it's not a serious family illness etc)

[RainMaker]

I was wondering if we'll ever hit a point where players take a year off to have their bodies fully recover. My guess is no with how age is perceived by GMs. But would it make sense for a guy who is 28 to take a year off and get all his injuries healed and his body right? Can't fathom these guys get fully healthy in the offseason.

Will be interesting to see how Bell looks next season.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I was wondering if we'll ever hit a point where players take a year off to have their bodies fully recover. My guess is no with how age is perceived by GMs. But would it make sense for a guy who is 28 to take a year off and get all his injuries healed and his body right? Can't fathom these guys get fully healthy in the offseason.

Will be interesting to see how Bell looks next season.

Or if Gronk comes back in November...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

On my list I'd move wolves to #3

Depends on the grandparents

[JPhillips]

I was behind a truck yesterday with a Jets brand license plate reading: LVBELL

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I was behind a truck yesterday with a Jets brand license plate reading: LVBELL

Did it crash and burn?

[JPhillips]

Adam Gase = Mangini 2.0

[bhlloy]

Everyone knows the best time to fire a GM is after you let him spend $125 million in free agency and the draft, duh...