Soccer: USA vs. Germany

[Crapshoot]

Should be a good one. Jurgen Klinsmann needs this win - badly.

[kingfc22]

Game is on ESPN2 at 11:20 AM PST today. Just a heads up for all the soccer fans on the board.

Unfortunately I'll be at work and will have to Tivo the game.

[ice4277]

Damn, I forgot it was on and forgot to set the DVR. Oh well.

[TazFTW]

Horrible.

[GoldenEagle]

Three goals in 19 minutes? What the hell happened? I know this is a depleted squad, but what the hell?

[GoldenEagle]

Dola,

Make that 4-0. How fucking embarrasing.

Fire Bruce now.

[TazFTW]

WTF?

[GoldenEagle]

By the way, the Big Soccer meltdown should be very fun to watch.

[gstelmack]

4-0 who? Is USA going down bigtime? Is that #5 ranking in danger?

[vyshka]

3 goals in the span of 6 minutes (73rd through 79th minute). It would be interesting to hear what happened from someone who saw the game. Did the Germans find something to exploit in Arena's tactics, or did the back 4 and Keller just really screw up?

[bbor]

Deutchland uber alles!

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by bbor

Deutchland uber alles!

Ja, du hast rechts, mein freund!

[Crapshoot]

I gotta believe there were some mixups there- that's a performance worthy of Birmingham City.

[marshall881]

Berhalter and Conrad played there way out of the Cup.

[MrBug708]

Too bad about Conrad. He's an alum of my HS

[fantastic flying froggies]

Once again proof that these FIFA rankings are a joke...

Also, keep in mind this German squad is supposed to be a relatively weak side, by their standard anyway.

[Crapshoot]

Well yeah - no one takes FIFA seriously, but this wasn't the strongest American team either - the Germans still had Ballack and co - its not a fair reflection on them.
That being said, I still believe that the Americans getting out of the 1st group of the World Cup will constitute a significant achievement.

[marshall881]

The first half was even. The tide turned in the second when Germany brought on Neuville and Schweinsteiger.
Plus we were without Donovan, Beasley, or Reyna.

Convey played really well today however, and may have cemented his spot on the roster.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by marshall881

...Convey played really well today however, and may have cemented his spot on the roster.

He's been on fire for Reading this year...

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by marshall881

The first half was even.

Technically true since the score was 0-0, but Germany was the better side in the first half (despite what the ESPN announcers were saying).

The Germans had more possession but couldn't get a decent cross in. If they get just a couple decent crosses in, they would have been up by a couple of goals at the half. They also seemed to be really nervous. Too many times they had the ball in the US zone but no one was making any kind of run to get open. Just standing around waiting for someone else to do something.

That all changed in the second half, though, and the score reflects that. Once the Germans got a couple goals in, they were more relaxed and they picked the US apart.

I think the only US player who played well was Gibbs. Convey was decent, but too many times his first touch resulted in a turnover.

[Havok]

considering we are missing like 6 or 7 starters(and our 5 best players), im ok with this.

Germany had just about its entire team there. Minus a couple who play in the England.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

Once again proof that these FIFA rankings are a joke...

Also, keep in mind this German squad is supposed to be a relatively weak side, by their standard anyway.

This was a relatively weak American side, by our standards anyway.

[MIJB#19]

But Germany has no real starters, aside from Kahn, Ballack and a player or two, so this should still counts as a humiliating loss. Losing ain't bad, especially not in the phase of testing the #15-30 players for the team, but 4-0 against modern era Germany?

And in a way, when a loss is humiliating, it says something about the expected result before the game. Given circumstances, I think a 1-1 draw would have been normal.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

But Germany has no real starters, aside from Kahn, Ballack and a player or two, so this should still counts as a humiliating loss. Losing ain't bad, especially not in the phase of testing the #15-30 players for the team, but 4-0 against modern era Germany?

And in a way, when a loss is humiliating, it says something about the expected result before the game. Given circumstances, I think a 1-1 draw would have been normal.

Eurosnob alert.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Eurosnob alert.

yes, god forbid it means that the team performed like shit - it must be the "Eurosnob."

[Havok]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

so this should still counts as a humiliating loss.

huh... its a friendly for god sake. Humiliating?? lol whatever.

Im no soccer guru, but whats wrong with 'Modern Era Germany'. They're the top seed in their group in the World Cup........ Only 7 other teams can make that claim. Can't be that bad.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Havok

huh... its a friendly for god sake. Humiliating?? lol whatever.

Im no soccer guru, but whats wrong with 'Modern Era Germany'. They're the top seed in their group in the World Cup........ Only 7 other teams can make that claim. Can't be that bad.

yeah, but its based on a FIFA system that is... shite. Germany's really not a top tier team these days.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Havok

huh... its a friendly for god sake. Humiliating?? lol whatever.

Im no soccer guru, but whats wrong with 'Modern Era Germany'. They're the top seed in their group in the World Cup........ Only 7 other teams can make that claim. Can't be that bad.

They're seeds because they are the host nation, just like Japan and South Korea being seeded last time for being hosts.

Germany has been having a tough time recently, other than Ballack and an aging Kahn they dont have the class they used to have. The young hopes Schweinsteiger and Podolski both havent had great seasons, so they're at a bit of a low.

The German press is down on their team too, particularly the coach Klinsmann who could have been fired if they'd lost today. They got humped 4-1 in their last friendly v Italy, they've lost to Slovakia and Turkey and up til today they'd only won two of their seven World Cup warmup games (home to South Africa and China, nothing to shout about).

At the risk of being called a Euro-snob, I'd say today wasn't a great result for the US so late in the buildup.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Eurosnob alert.

Yeah, I'd say that Matthijs is about as far from a Eurosnob as you can get.

[GoldenEagle]

MIJB is always poking fun at the US squad. You may not be able to pick up on it, but he is. Others have noticed too. Just because he is in the IHOF or whatever does not mean he is immune to being ignorant about US soccer.

The squad that was on the field during the second half will be a fraction of what we see in the World Cup. The team had no cohesion at all. We were missing our two best central midfielders which is a disaster for any team.

I am not saying I am happy with the performance. We have a lot of work to do before getting ready for the World Cup. But Germany had all of their domestic players available. You basically had some MLS players against Bundesliga players in middle season form.

[RPI-Fan]

Yes, it was a bad performance.

But MIJB is so far out of line it is ridiculous.

Germany ran out an A- team. USA ran out a C or C+ team. A 1-1 draw in Germany would have been a great result for the USA and awful for Germany. MIJB is totally clueless as to US soccer. You really should stop posting about it because your ignorance just becomes clearer each time you do.

For 70 minutes the US ran with the Germans and could very well have been in a tie game were it not for super-goalie Kahn. Keller misplayed that first goal (although it was a difficult play to be sure) -- not that he SHOULD have had it, but the Keller we had in qualifying makes that play.

Ching was "marking" on that first goal and looked absolutely lost. Conrad and Berhalter were nearby also. Those two absolutely collapsed as the second half progressed. Thankfully, they're well, well down on our depth chart. I think Bruce would play Pablo at centerback before either of those two (after today's performance where they just showed no ability to play in a game of pressure).


So, in short, MIJB is totally wrong, as usual. USA didn't play as well as they could have with an supremely undermanned team, Germany did exactly what they needed and were expected to do with their A-team, and to quote Kasey Keller "a good ass-kicking might be exactly what we needed".


~rpi-fan

[Havok]

I think thats the 'Western Euro-Syndrom'... bash everything American, reguardless of what it is

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

MIJB is always poking fun at the US squad. You may not be able to pick up on it, but he is. Others have noticed too. Just because he is in the IHOF or whatever does not mean he is immune to being ignorant about US soccer.

The squad that was on the field during the second half will be a fraction of what we see in the World Cup. The team had no cohesion at all. We were missing our two best central midfielders which is a disaster for any team.

I am not saying I am happy with the performance. We have a lot of work to do before getting ready for the World Cup. But Germany had all of their domestic players available. You basically had some MLS players against Bundesliga players in middle season form.

I've picked up on it. It's fine to the extent that I think it's a general European sentiment rather than a personal vendetta against the US soccer team. Anyway, it's a friendly, it mattered to Germany a lot more, it was in Germany, end of story.

[kingfc22]

Just finished watching the game and although the result looks bad, what more could you expect after seeing the lineup we trotted out there.

We probably had maybe 2-3 guys that will play significant minutes in the WC out on the field and we still were only down 1-0 after 70 minutes.

The last 3 goals were allowed by horrible defensive plays and those guys will NOT be on the final roster.

[Havok]

Thats what i was saying earlier.... literally like 6 out of our top 8 players didn't even play. Hell maybe more......

Beasley
Lando
Onyewu
McBride
Reyna
Bocanegra
Lewis (who i think will be our LB)

the list is endless

Im not saying we're some kind of World soccer power.... but give us a break already. Todays game ment Z E R O to us.

[daedalus]

I didn't see the game but, based on my talks with Matthijs, I would say he is far from a Eurosnob. He is equally critical of any team, include the Dutch national team (if not more so on the Dutch team), that does not play well.

I don't know about this specific game but, in the past, I have not been particularly impressed with the US backline and their ability to clear the ball.

[Vince]

Well, then, carry on. Mayhap he doesn't know anything about soccer, but 'Eurosnob' seems to be a pretty harsh term that applies to more than just soccer.

[condors]

I think the us team needs Beasley and Donovan with their pace and ability on the ball it puts defenses under pressure, McBride as a target man also causes problems for defenses which we were sorely lacking (i think Johnson could cause problems but our midfield was sorely lacking and got worse when pablo came out for olsen)

[MIJB#19]

Eurosnob? I have no idea what that means, but for someone who's been trying to support in stead of bash on US soccer, I'm not so happy with the sound of it.

When I point out that a 1-1 draw would be a normal result for a C team from the USA against Germany's A team, tell me: where does that bash US soccer?

[AlexB]

FWIW I think both the pro-US soccer team posts and MIJB & FFF have points here.

From what you guys say (and the newspaper reports), this was a half strength US team at best, but the Germans were also missing starters including Deisler, Frings & Huth - key players for them. So relative strength were pretty even, with maybe the German side a touch closer to their starting XI.

But both sides will have learned something - by all accounts some of the fringe US players didn't exactly enhance their chances of making the squad, and Germany learned that they can win a non-competitive game (they are traditionally a tournament team - poor in friendlies, but often over-perform in the WC/EC - see Japan 2002).

I watched the first half hour, and this period was terrible from both sides tbh - a horrible game: after this I switched to the start of Chelsea vs. Newcastle.

The defeat was not necessarily humiliating, but definitely a blow, as Germany are far from the strongest European team, let alone close to Brazil or Argentina. Both Italy and the Czech Republic are stronger teams than Germany, and this result should at least warn the US team that they need to play a lot better in the WC if they are to get to the knockout stages.

I did read a further worrying stat about the US team against European opposition:

The Americans were missing about half their projected World Cup starting lineup because of injuries and club commitments, and they dropped to 0-9 in Europe against the major soccer powers of Germany, England, Italy, France and Spain. They've been outscored 26-4 in those games.

Granted, a lot of these games I assume would have seen the US not at full-strength, but I would imagine much like the England game last year, the reverse is also true in a lot of cases.

And just for balance, has anyone read the article in 442 about the USA 1 England 0 game in the 1950 WC? Fascinating read, and a tragic end for the goalscorer...

[RPI-Fan]

You guys are missing the point. The US wasn't missing "a few" starters.

We were missing ALMOST every starter.

Cherundolo, Keller, and EJ were the only likely starters for the WC (and I don't think EJ will be playing, either). At central defense we had our 4th/5th options. At D-mid it was our 3rd/4th options. Ching is 5th on the striker depth chart.

Not only did we not have our starters, we didn't even have our backups in there.

And to the person who said the first half hour was awful, I totally disagree. It was a good, fast-paced game with quick counterattacking.

[MIJB#19]

Then you are ignorant yourself, RPI-Fan.

If you actually followed world soccer, you'd know that Germany has been playing aweful the past 4 years and that Jurgen Klinsmann's job was on the line yesterday. When a coach's job is on the line in a friendly, it says a lot.

Fact is that Klinsmann has very few players to select from, there's Michael Ballack and the 2002 repuation of Oliver Kahn. The German league is overcrowded with foreign players, the entire country is on Klinsi's back (only 2% of the population sees Germany as potential World Champion) and even the national politics has been on a mission to score over his team's lack of results.

It's nice to blame Klinsi, but that won't change the lack of German players. Based on reputation, the 'rest of Europe' fears Germany for their last minute goal ability, but it was very reasonable to expect them to have gone out in the first round at the World Cup, had they not been drawn in the 'group of life' (as the opposite of 'group of death').

And as Jari Rantanen's Shorts said, it's not a good sign if your backups lose 4-1 to what should be an equally strong team. Especially not 2 months before the tournament starts.

[Critch]

I don't see what's eurosnobbery about what MIJB said, he said that it was a bad result for the US against a poor German team and that the US should have been looking for a draw.

Not like he called it a f-ing embaressment and called for the manager to be fired or anything.

[Butter]

I thought Convey was about the only player worth a damn on the field for the US. God help us if any of those players are pressed into duty in the actual World Cup.

[Crapshoot]

The irony of course is that MIJB is Dutch. The biggest Dutch rivals are probably the Germans - I'm not sure he's likely to overstate their cause. If anything, I get the impression that some of the Americans here get overly sensitive when someone suggests that the team isn't top notch. Yes, they were clearly missing Donovan, McBride and Beasley, but this team has one geniune top class player- and that's Keller. I'm neither European or American (the Indian soccer team is somewhere in the nethers of the rankings, a rare accuracy on the part of FIFA ), but this is bashing the messanger, not the message.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I thought Convey was about the only player worth a damn on the field for the US. God help us if any of those players are pressed into duty in the actual World Cup.

Convey will get his chance to impress in the EPL next year - by all accounts, he's one of the primary reasons for Reading's walkthrough the premiership.

[marshall881]

The result was disappointing but I think Arena got what he wanted out of the match. He was able to find out who can not cut it at that level. Figuring out his final roster got a whole lot easier after yesterday.

The germans as a team had so much more to play for yesterday than we did.

[Klinglerware]

So what are the chances of Gibbs, Ching, or Twellman making the squad?

[Butter]

I think Twellman has a good shot, but I don't think he should make it. He had one good scoring game against a fairly bad team, and otherwise has done zero despite being given repeated chances to show something. I don't know about the other 2.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Critch

I don't see what's eurosnobbery about what MIJB said, he said that it was a bad result for the US against a poor German team and that the US should have been looking for a draw.

Not like he called it a f-ing embaressment and called for the manager to be fired or anything.

Yeah, those are the... Amerisnobs? Who call to fire Arena after every bad result.

Crapshoot is right too. There are a number of US fans who get highly defensive at ANY criticism of the US National Team and respond with "Eurosnob" and crap like that.