2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[JediKooter]

Watched Biden's presser a little bit ago and man, it's such a breath of fresh air to actually hear someone articulate and speak professionally in that setting. No weird ramblings or auto fellating, just clear and direct answers to the press, it's like I woke up from a bad dream.

[Gary Gorski]

First, thank you Bryan for your post - like you said it won't go over well but I appreciate you doing it.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I don't know if you are religious or not, but telling people they aren't a true believer in the faith if you believe X is one of the more offensive things I think you can tell a religious person.

I did not tell anyone they were not a true believer/real Catholic. Those were words others said.

I said that I do not feel Joe Biden practices the faith he claims because what he stands for on something like abortion is contrarian to what his faith stands for. That's a major contradiction to a very important teaching in the faith.

Others pointed out that other Catholics do not follow other things the church teaches and I agreed they don't. I didn't make excuses for some people (or for myself) but decided to stick it to Joe Biden for some reason. Is it not true that some people have chosen they don't like the church's teaching about (insert your issue here)? Isn't that why people say they leave the Catholic Church because they don't like the church's teachings on certain things?

When I fail to live up to the teachings I do what my faith tells me I am supposed to do - I confess my sins, do my penance and try to do better in the future. It's not easy to live up to everything the Catholic Church says is right. I guess that's why there is that passage in the Bible about the gate being narrow...If you don't agree with the Catholic Church on any of this that's certainly your right and I believe you have every right to believe that way.

Again, my point is that if you don't practice what the church is telling you (for any religion) how are you practicing its faith especially when you are talking about the most significant pieces of it? It would seem that you're practicing part of the faith and how do you practice part of faith?

People here have spun this into whatever they want. Bryan pointed it out. All of my statements are there - you can see I have never said the words some have claimed.

Anyhow, I don't wish to derail the thread further into a religious discussion. I've explained multiple times what I said, I never take to insulting people personally and if people want to insult me, not buy my products or whatever then that's up to them.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Does he know that? I've been here 20 years and I have no clue what denomination almost anyone here is. I think you're ELCA-ish, maybe, and I know that GrantDawg and JIMGA are Protestant, but no idea what specific denomination. Radii is either atheist or agnostic (forget which.) I would think that revrew is some form of Protestant, but not sure which. Those are literally the only ones I even have the first inkling about...

I know we have at least one Jedi

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Does he know that? I've been here 20 years and I have no clue what denomination almost anyone here is. I think you're ELCA-ish, maybe, and I know that GrantDawg and JIMGA are Protestant, but no idea what specific denomination. Radii is either atheist or agnostic (forget which.) I would think that revrew is some form of Protestant, but not sure which. Those are literally the only ones I even have the first inkling about...

For your records, non-practicing Catholic (but still believe in Purgatory).

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I know we have at least one Jedi

You rang?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

While I do agree in part, I feel guilty for playing a role in steering the conversation down a road I knew would be bad for all parties. This board veers hard to the left (and I'm part of that) and I know people that disagree feel piled on simply because they tend to be outnumbered.

As for Gary specifically, I don't agree with his views on religion but he has gone above and beyond with support for his games and helping me directly. We all need to be prepared for the repercussions of our words and actions, but as soon as Gary's business starts being pulled into the debate it becomes uncomfortable for me. Some may feel I'm wrong for that or maybe not. I'm not sure, but I'd personally rather people feel free to post here without their personal lives being affected. That's a fine line that I'm not sure we want to cross into on a message board.

Well said.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

You rang?

the force is strong with this one...

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This isn't going to go over well, but frankly I don't care.

I know Gary Gorski and had the pleasure of working for him at WS for several years. I consider him one of the finest and noblest human beings I've ever had the privilege of being associated with professionally. I think it's rather revealing the degree to which, once again as a contrarian voice, what others have said about him here is far ruder and more disrespectful than anything he said, and completely out of proportion to what he said. It's just one more example of how FOFC is all for diversity ... so long as it's the kind of diversity we approve of.

This. I've known Gary a long time and he's every bit as passionate about his beliefs as I am about mine. He's a solid guy and he lives his truth and even though he and I don't see eye to eye on the whole religion thing, there's no reason to castigate him over something that he holds true to. He's every bit as entitled to it as anyone else. I don't really care what the Catholic church, or Catholics believe as what is right and what isn't right, so long as we're not creating policy around it. We can disagree about that, but again, it's got nothing to do with whether or not he's entitled to that belief as much as I am mine.

Shit like this is exactly why Jim doesn't come around here either. It should be a safe space where these guys can get away and be themselves, fans, dads, husbands. Let it go, who the fuck cares what religions definition the Catholic church uses to define who is who.?Just do you.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I did not tell anyone they were not a true believer/real Catholic. Those were words others said.

When you say that someone who believes that the government should not ban abortion is not a practicing Catholic, what exactly do you think Catholics on this board who believe the government should not ban abortion hear?

Seems like a complete lack of thinking of how people would legitimately interpret your words.

If I said that a conservative Catholic who believes in the death penalty is not a practicing Catholic, I'd be really silly in thinking that other Catholics who believe in the death penalty wouldn't feel like I was castigating doubts on their faith.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Well said.

exactly.

to be fair I didn't read any of the word salad on religion thats consumed the last two pages, but I think one of the unique things about FOFC is we are better than the average internet community at going to our respective corners.

Threating someones real world livelihood isn't who we are.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Lathum

the force is strong with this one...

May the force be with you, always.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Does he know that? I've been here 20 years and I have no clue what denomination almost anyone here is. I think you're ELCA-ish, maybe, and I know that GrantDawg and JIMGA are Protestant, but no idea what specific denomination. Radii is either atheist or agnostic (forget which.) I would think that revrew is some form of Protestant, but not sure which. Those are literally the only ones I even have the first inkling about...

This is not the first time we've had this exact discussion on these boards. So I'd imagine the participants would realize that there are both pro-choice and pro-life Catholics on here.

[ISiddiqui]

I'll put it this way. This isn't reddit; we know each other pretty well. It's like a cul-de-sac. And I see it as would saying something getting you chewed out. And in any neighborhood conversation I've known, saying someone isn't a practicing member of the faith (Christian/Catholic, etc) because they are pro-choice would get you chewed out and then some. I've even witnessed some of that at the local bar.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

He made an argument about the nature of belief itself, including Catholicism. At no point in that argument did he make a personal attack. People deciding not to buy his products is besides the point and not what I was referring to. What did follow is him being called a 'dumb ass' (by Qwikshot), a sanctimonious ass (Qwikshot again), AlexB posts in support of that statement. Then Gary makes his final post, which again contains no personal attack but a further elaboration and defense of his position. This is followed by CarterNMA, whose helpful comments included 'know-it-all dribble' and 'cram it up your ass', Galaril in support of that (same here), and then you as well Kodos.

By my count, that's five posters, all of whom crossed the line. molson then won the whole discussion with this: "say we spin this off into another thread and you can make a list of all FOFcers who are going to hell, and all who will serve you in your Kingdom of Heaven." Which is so far out of proportion the phrase res ipsa loquitur comes to mind.

I think you missed the point of my post - it’s what I thought was a famous line from the Alanis Morissette song ‘Ironic’...

Quikshot posted about how religion teaches people to love one another and in the same sentence called Gary a sanctimonious ass who could shove something up his derriere, or words to those effect... without any hint of irony.

I don’t necessarily agree with Gary’s POV, don’t necessarily disagree with it either being an atheist, but I definitely felt that Quikshot’s post in particular was the perfect example of why religion doesn’t appeal to me - the whole discussion is the exact epitome of the Emo Phillips joke I posted last week

[molson]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

You rang?

You have a sad devotion to that ancient religion.

[PilotMan]

Imran had me right up until the part where saying something gets you chewed out. You live in the same area, no matter what, you've got to live near everyone for a long, long time. There's no need to make a scene. You don't like it, go home. If someone goes overboard, acts like a douche, tries to dominate the corner, tries to be the big swinging dick on the block, then call them out, they are a narcissistic bully, and that's a high hill to climb. But everyone gets a chance to be who they want to be, live how they want to live, play how they want to play, and dance how they want to dance.

[Edward64]

I'm feeling a kumbaya moment soon.

Is this the end of the cancel culture-like at FOFC? Nah, hoping for too much.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

You rang?

So you liking baby yoda?

[ISiddiqui]

Imran had me right up until the part where saying something gets you chewed out. You live in the same area, no matter what, you've got to live near everyone for a long, long time. There's no need to make a scene. You don't like it, go home. If someone goes overboard, acts like a douche, tries to dominate the corner, tries to be the big swinging dick on the block, then call them out, they are a narcissistic bully, and that's a high hill to climb. But everyone gets a chance to be who they want to be, live how they want to live, play how they want to play, and dance how they want to dance.

I dunno about your neck of the woods, but I've seen plenty of examples of a yelling chew out fight and then both folks are drinking together the next week.

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[molson]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I don't really care what the Catholic church, or Catholics believe as what is right and what isn't right, so long as we're not creating policy around it.

But isn't this all about whether policy should be created around it? The discussion started over Biden's belief that there shouldn't be policy created around it (a government ban), and that is apparently contrary to the Catholic faith as a whole. Not just being opposed morally to abortions, but precluding others from having them in the name of God. THAT's what the faith requires, apparently. I don't care if someone's personal belief precludes abortions for themselves either. But we're talking politics and law, I thought.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I think you missed the point of my post - it’s what I thought was a famous line from the Alanis Morissette song ‘Ironic’...

You are correct, I did miss the point - although I did catch the Morissette bit, I misunderstood how you were applying it. I apologize for including you in the examples, and I stand corrected.

You may now flog me with your noodly appendage if you wish.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So you liking baby yoda?

Like would be an understatement. I'm usually not a fan of the whole 'cute' thing in general, but, this one, man oh man something about baby yoda hits me right in the whatever it is in the brain, that's the cutest thing I've ever seen. And they are not using him/her as just a prop or McGuffin, which is great too.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

You are correct, I did miss the point - although I did catch the Morissette bit, I misunderstood how you were applying it. I apologize for including you in the examples, and I stand corrected.

You may now flog me with your noodly appendage if you wish.

How do you know about that...

[CarterNMA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm feeling a kumbaya moment soon.

Is this the end of the cancel culture-like at FOFC? Nah, hoping for too much.

You know what? I'm going to give you that Kumbaya moment. I want to be a better example in the post-Trump America.

I retract my "cram it" and "ain't gonna buy your product" statements earlier. And to Imran, I apologize for my "f off" statement some months back that I can't remember the specifics about. I send you a virtual hug. I'm not a hugger and maybe you aren't but dammit I want to be in a better America.

I also hope to remember not to post when I'm operating off of fumes from pulling weird shifts and getting crap sleep. <-- I hope the redface emoji conveys embarrassment...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

This is not the first time we've had this exact discussion on these boards. So I'd imagine the participants would realize that there are both pro-choice and pro-life Catholics on here.

Was Gary a part of that discussion? No idea here, just saying that I know I have no recollection of it, which means it's highly likely that I simply didn't read it. I go through periods where I read this board multiple times a day, and others where I'm not around at all for a week or more, and I don't have time to "catch up" from when I was last around. Gary doesn't strike me as someone who is a consistent everyday reader either. If he was in that discussion, then that's another thing entirely. But if not, I'm not sure it's fair to assume he knows that he is speaking to a part-Catholic audience, let along part-pro-life Catholic audience. I know I wouldn't have known that myself.

[ISiddiqui]

I actually believe he started off the previous brew-ha-ha as well with a similar comment.

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[kingfc22]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...b8e_story.html

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...b8e_story.html

Wow, but hopefully this is the first domino in a rapidly increasing collapse to all this bullshit.

As an aside, I can't imagine the machinations Trumps handlers are going through right now to placate him. There are going to be some potentially amazing books that come out of this election.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by CarterNMA

You know what? I'm going to give you that Kumbaya moment. I want to be a better example in the post-Trump America.

I retract my "cram it" and "ain't gonna buy your product" statements earlier. And to Imran, I apologize for my "f off" statement some months back that I can't remember the specifics about. I send you a virtual hug. I'm not a hugger and maybe you aren't but dammit I want to be in a better America.

I also hope to remember not to post when I'm operating off of fumes from pulling weird shifts and getting crap sleep. <-- I hope the redface emoji conveys embarrassment...

You beat me too it. I am sorry for that shitty comment too. People need to be able to say what they want and if I want to boycott products or services that is my decision but I should keep it to myself. Sorry Gary.

[Brian Swartz]

I applaud this moment of togetherness. Well done gentlemen.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I applaud this moment of togetherness. Well done gentlemen.

Agreed. Only one left.

[GrantDawg]

GROUP HUG!!!!

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[GrantDawg]

Meanwhile as both GOP Senator's in Georgia are pushing the SOS to resign, a letter was sent to the SOS signed by all of the GOP congressional reps asking him to not certify to he has investigated election fraud. Here's the thing. They as well as the Senator's were in the election. If the SOS doesn't certify, then none of them are elected.

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[GrantDawg]

Btw, the addressed the letter to "George Secretary of State."

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[Ksyrup]

Wow: "I was asked to lie about Hunter Biden, admits Ukrainian businessman. Hares Youssef claims he was promised a US visa and legal immunity in return for information that would damage Joe Biden’s presidential campaign https://t.co/ZhntN0LjLo

— Josie Ensor (@Josiensor) November 9, 2020

[Ksyrup]

On second thought... maybe we SHOULD keep investigating the election.

Postal worker featured by Republicans as evidence of vote tampering admits he made it up; GOP donors gave him $130,000 https://t.co/UlOqChJN5j

— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) November 10, 2020

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

On second thought... maybe we SHOULD keep investigating the election.

Postal worker featured by Republicans as evidence of vote tampering admits he made it up; GOP donors gave him $130,000 https://t.co/UlOqChJN5j

— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) November 10, 2020

If it's not obvious by now, literally everything this admin says liberals are trying to do, this admin has already done.

But, both sides or something.

[sterlingice]

I'm sure they were just flipped by the Deep State or something

SI

[Drake]

Wait. Wait. Waitwaitwait. Wait. Waitwaitwait.

*squeezing my temples*

With early indications that the Supreme Court may sever the mandate bit from the ACA while otherwise leaving it intact and affirming the preserving the pre-existing conditions portion...

...isn't the end result here that the ACA -- from the perspective of the American citizen who needs health coverage -- is actually going to be improved in the process?

Is there a legitimate possibility here that when we look back on the Trump presidency, one of his greatest lasting accomplishments is going to be building upon Obama's signature piece of legislation to make health care more attainable for the average American?

Or am I reading this wrong?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by CarterNMA

You know what? I'm going to give you that Kumbaya moment. I want to be a better example in the post-Trump America.

I retract my "cram it" and "ain't gonna buy your product" statements earlier. And to Imran, I apologize for my "f off" statement some months back that I can't remember the specifics about. I send you a virtual hug. I'm not a hugger and maybe you aren't but dammit I want to be in a better America.

I also hope to remember not to post when I'm operating off of fumes from pulling weird shifts and getting crap sleep. <-- I hope the redface emoji conveys embarrassment...

Sign me up for a little apologizing too. I was in a bad mood from work, and anything that looks like someone forcing their religious views on someone else is a great way to get me riled up. Sorry for my part in this.

For the record, I was raised Presbyterian, became an atheist in my teens, moved on to agnosticism in my late thirties, and after a spiritual awakening of sorts in my late forties, I now firmly believe there is a God, even though I doubt I'll ever join a formalized religion. I'm more of a hippie in the "we're here to learn to love each other and work on ourselves" mode. I also believe in reincarnation. So there's that.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Drake

Wait. Wait. Waitwaitwait. Wait. Waitwaitwait.

*squeezing my temples*

With early indications that the Supreme Court may sever the mandate bit from the ACA while otherwise leaving it intact and affirming the preserving the pre-existing conditions portion...

...isn't the end result here that the ACA -- from the perspective of the American citizen who needs health coverage -- is actually going to be improved in the process?

Is there a legitimate possibility here that when we look back on the Trump presidency, one of his greatest lasting accomplishments is going to be building upon Obama's signature piece of legislation to make health care more attainable for the average American?

Or am I reading this wrong?

That's already the case. The Supreme Court is listening to arguments that cancelling the individual mandate makes the rest of the ACA invalid. That's the argument the Trump Administration is backing.

Removing the mandate is just going to increase premiums in the long run (as that is what the mandate was expected to help address)

[molson]

538 is still gamely following the remaining states who are seemingly knocking out 1-2 ballots day. Biden still on track to win (in the traditional sense of getting more votes than the opponent, not in terms of however the Republicans are trying to re-define elections), in Georgia and Arizona. He'll end up with 306. I feel like that should frustrate the legal hail marys, but, I guess it would still only take a couple of states to go rogue.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by molson

You have a sad devotion to that ancient religion.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[Ksyrup]

Even better. This is a "win" just like the PA order saying GOP observers could stand closer as long as Covid protocols are observed was a win.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Georgia was in the recount area anyways (it's separated by less than 0.25% IIRC). It's not exactly a win for Trump if it was going to happen anyways.

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Apparently it’s a win in that it was going to be a more systematic recount instead of humans reviewing every ballot as it is now going to be.

[larrymcg421]

OMG. Trump wins popular vote is up to .09 on PredictIt. That's the craziest one I've seen yet. How delusional do you have to be to buy that?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

OMG. Trump wins popular vote is up to .09 on PredictIt. That's the craziest one I've seen yet. How delusional do you have to be to buy that?

Lindsey Graham looking to augment his coffers after his latest plea for cash was shut down by Ingrahm?

[jbergey22]

Well people are also pumping the GOP by 10.5 or more margin in the popular vote up to 3 cents.

Apparently thinking 20 million Biden votes are going to get thrown away.

[Ksyrup]

Wisconsin counties are 2/3s through their audit and Biden's lead has increased by 157 votes.

[GrantDawg]

pic.twitter.com/qt8RboSbbB

— Mama_C2 (@mama_c2) November 13, 2020