Jason Giambi Wins AL Comeback Player of the Year

WSUCougar · 10-07-2005, 06:22 AM

Quote:

The Yankees' Jason Giambi won the AL's award for his comeback from problems including an inflamed knee, a respiratory infection, an intestinal parasite and a benign pituitary tumor.

...oh, and, um, ****ing STEROIDS!!! What a crock.

(Ken Griffey deservedly won the NL Award)

jeff061 · 10-07-2005, 06:24 AM

Palmeiro will undoubtedly win next year.

Breeze · 10-07-2005, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

Palmeiro will undoubtedly win next year.

He'll be able to put it on his mantle next to the Gold Glove he won for 14 games worth of spectacular play.

gottimd · 10-07-2005, 06:42 AM

I was hoping I would've received this award this year. I woke up pissed to know that Giambi got it and not me.

Easy Mac · 10-07-2005, 06:43 AM

what's up with all the knee problems with the steroid guys? Giambi had an inflamed knee, Bonds had like 87 surgeries, Palmiero was originally sent home to rehab his knee.... I think knee is baseball code for steroids.

colt45 · 10-07-2005, 06:48 AM

This will be known as "The day we quit watching MLB" around my house. Wow. What kind of lesson does this give? If you're a no-name and we catch you with steriods, Sorry amigo, but we'll make sure to drag your name in the mud. But you are a big name, someone we've given previous accolades to while you were CLEARLY on the juice? - Aw, heck, we all make mistakes! Take this league-wide award showing that we sure are glad you're only a third as good as you were on the stuff. Seriously, I just can't see where anyone in the league could have signed off of that. It's not a message that does anything to support the fact that MLB is serious at all about cleaning up the game.

Sorry - I will now dismount my soapbox.

panerd · 10-07-2005, 07:10 AM

It's amazing that something like this would happen under Bud Selig's watch.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 07:29 AM

Good for Giambi. He deserves it fully. He had an awful year last year and did extremely well this year. Definition of a comeback. Play your moral judgments elsewhere.

jeff061 · 10-07-2005, 07:32 AM

Nope, you're wrong. He shouldn't even be allowed within 10 miles of a field, let alone win awards.

colt45 · 10-07-2005, 07:34 AM

Agreed. MLB waiting on suspending Rafie, they made no inquiry into the Bonds, Giambi, BALCO thing - the ONLY reason at all they addressed the issue was pressure from Congress. As fans, or former fans, we have a right and a place to say that we won't support it. Baseball is a passionate sport for many. And many of us don't like to see it tainted/marred by these cheaters that aren't disciplined, and sometimes rewarded.

miked · 10-07-2005, 07:45 AM

So wait, a guy admitted he did something wrong when it wasn't even against the rules of the sport and everyone's acting like he's a convicted kiddy rapist out on a technicality? It's a sport people and he had a great season in comparison to the last. I would think this message is a positive one. He made a big mistake, took a lot of crap for it and was still able to come back ,work hard, and do good things. Sounds like a decent message to send.

Jon · 10-07-2005, 07:48 AM

We tend to forget the difference between Giambi and Palmeiro -- Palmeiro failed a steriod test, Giambi did not. He tells the truth before the Grand Jury, quits taking steroids, apologizes (which could have been for forthcoming, but understandably considering he was allowed to talk about his testimony before the Grand Jury), and comes back from an awful year. It's a comeback story, plain and simple.

Jon · 10-07-2005, 07:48 AM

Oops-- didn't see miked's post.

TazFTW · 10-07-2005, 07:50 AM

I voted for him (and Junior).

stevew · 10-07-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

So wait, a guy admitted he did something wrong when it wasn't even against the rules of the sport and everyone's acting like he's a convicted kiddy rapist out on a technicality? It's a sport people and he had a great season in comparison to the last. I would think this message is a positive one. He made a big mistake, took a lot of crap for it and was still able to come back ,work hard, and do good things. Sounds like a decent message to send.

This wouldnt be an issue if he wasnt on the Yankees.

jeff061 · 10-07-2005, 07:52 AM

Would be with me. If Ortiz was busted tomorrow I wouldn't be treating it any differently and I think the same is true for most Sox fans.

wade moore · 10-07-2005, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

So wait, a guy admitted he did something wrong when it wasn't even against the rules of the sport and everyone's acting like he's a convicted kiddy rapist out on a technicality? It's a sport people and he had a great season in comparison to the last. I would think this message is a positive one. He made a big mistake, took a lot of crap for it and was still able to come back ,work hard, and do good things. Sounds like a decent message to send.

Why do so many people seem to ignore the fact that steroids are ILLEGAL?

oykib · 10-07-2005, 08:04 AM

A lot of shit's illegal. Guy gets busted with a gun and has a lousy season due to the legal troubles and comes back gangbusters the season after that and wins Comeback Player of the Year,-- no one would complain.

Baseball is not the justice department.

He didn't violate any baseball rules.

And if anyone would employ Rafy next year, he'd be just as eligible for the award provided he put up amazing numbers.

jeff061 · 10-07-2005, 08:06 AM

They did something that tainted the game and should be vilified for it. If he hadn't of cheated in the first place he never would of been in a position to be rewarded I could care less whether it's in the rule book. I'm sure there are plenty examples of crimes that are not covered in baseball rules, doesn't mean you give them a free pass.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

Why do so many people seem to ignore the fact that steroids are ILLEGAL?

So if Giambi was busted for cocaine would you still argue against a Comeback Player of the Year award for him?

mh2365 · 10-07-2005, 08:07 AM

Giambi also played like crap during the first half of the season when the so-called heavy testing was going on. Then when the testing slows down in the second half of the season he bulks up and goes on a tear. Under what kind of half-assed testing program does this not set off all sorts of alarms.

Pretty sure if I was on probation for speed and during the first 1/2 of my probation I weighed in at 250 and always looked tired from working, then in the second 1/2 I dropped 50 lbs and was always happy and bouncing in and out of probation I'd be tested immediately.

God I hope McCain does something about this crap, it's ruining baseball. Also the press will be all over it so it over shadows the fact that Griffey finally had a long and productive year.

jeff061 · 10-07-2005, 08:08 AM

If cocaine was the reason for his downfall, yes. I've never been a Strawberry fan and all his apologists drove me up the friggin wall.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

They did something that tainted the game and should be vilified for it. If he hadn't of cheated in the first place he never would of been in a position to be rewarded I could care less whether it's in the rule book. I'm sure there are plenty examples of crimes that are not covered in baseball rules, doesn't mean you give them a free pass.

Funny, because it seems we have given them just that for other crimes. Oykib is right, MLB isn't the justice department. They are a sport and comeback means they were good, had a bad season for whatever reason, and then cameback from it.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

If cocaine was the reason for his downfall, yes. I've never been a Strawberry fan and all his apologists drove me up the friggin wall.

For what fucking reason would cocaine use disqualify you from a COMEBACK player of the year award? This shit is just getting ridiculous now. It's like chicken little, but now 'drugs' take the place of 'the sky is falling'.

wade moore · 10-07-2005, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So if Giambi was busted for cocaine would you still argue against a Comeback Player of the Year award for him?

Yup, if it effected his performance.

agreed with jeff here... if they did something illegal that impacted the criteria for the award, heck yeah.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

Giambi also played like crap during the first half of the season when the so-called heavy testing was going on. Then when the testing slows down in the second half of the season he bulks up and goes on a tear. Under what kind of half-assed testing program does this not set off all sorts of alarms.

Under that logic, anyone that has a better second half is suspicious. And I didn't notice more bulk Giambi had after the All Star Break than he did beforehand. Remember he had one amazing month, then one crappy month, and played pretty good the rest of the year. What, did the steroids skip a month in the middle to you?

colt45 · 10-07-2005, 08:35 AM

Giambi admitted to it, the Yankees even researched getting out of his contract - the point is fans (and I believe most players) thing that steriod use is a form of cheating. The governing body of an organization should do everything in it's power to curtail that cheating AND punish those who have been found to have cheated through their testing OR admitted to it.
As for 'Comeback' - doesn't the term reference the fact that a certain level of excellence had been achieved, followed by a period not up to the same level, to be reached again? In my opinion, if that original excellence was met through illegal means, how is it any reward to show that without some sort of performance enhancer you got kind of close again? It's like saying, "Well, see, even without the cream and the clear, he's pretty okay-ish. Have a reward. Don't worry about all those other guys that have done just as amazing things as you have, worked harder, and didn't even bother to skirt the system. YOU deserve it more..."
I just can't get behind that.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colt45

the point is fans (and I believe most players) thing that steriod use is a form of cheating.

IIRC, the Comeback Player of the Year award was voted online at MLB's website (or it was a component in the vote), so plenty of fans seemingly don't think its as big a deal.

st.cronin · 10-07-2005, 08:40 AM

It's the combination of factors that makes this repulsive to some of us - that steroids are against the law, and are performance-enhancing. Even if not proscribed by MLB, taking steroids is CHEATING. Cheaters should not be rewarded for not cheating. That's why it's a bull**** award, and another mark against baseball's integrity. The Orioles did the right thing (for the wrong reasons, most likely) by sending Palmeiro home; the Yanks should have done the same thing with Giambi, just sat him down and told him he's not welcome anymore, and he should maybe look into another career.

Anthony · 10-07-2005, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So if Giambi was busted for cocaine would you still argue against a Comeback Player of the Year award for him?

cocaine doesn't enhance your performance.

ask Darryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden.

colt45 · 10-07-2005, 08:42 AM

I guess I'm in the crowd on this one. And that's fine. I'll just sit at the 'un-cool' kids side of the cafeteria...

So, I'm done. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on an issue.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Even if not proscribed by MLB, taking steroids is CHEATING. Cheaters should not be rewarded for not cheating. That's why it's a bull**** award

While I disagree with you on the 'steroids = cheating' thing for prior to the 2004 season, what about this guy:

jeff061 · 10-07-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

For what fucking reason would cocaine use disqualify you from a COMEBACK player of the year award? This shit is just getting ridiculous now. It's like chicken little, but now 'drugs' take the place of 'the sky is falling'.

The jackass should of not been doing the cocaine to begin with. As much as a I hate to reference a Denis Leary bit, that's the big thing with all celebs. Do cocaine and drink yourself to a stupor or add some heroin in there. Clean yourself up and collect the accolades and money that people who stayed clean all along don't get. Sorry if I don't buy into it.

colt45 · 10-07-2005, 08:54 AM

Good 'ole Rollie. You're not saying he was on the juice, too, are you?

rkmsuf · 10-07-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colt45

Good 'ole Rollie. You're not saying he was on the juice, too, are you?

I think he molested collies.

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colt45

Good 'ole Rollie. You're not saying he was on the juice, too, are you?

If you want to keep cheaters out, I don't think you'll find a bigger one... he even admitted it too. Hell, they knew he was doing it while he was playing. If you consider steroids before 2004 (or 2003 or whenever it was written in) to be cheating (I don't), then why is one form of cheating ok and the other isn't?

Subby · 10-07-2005, 09:01 AM

I think it is fairly compelling that a guy whose career had been pretty much been written off by everyone - his team, sportswriters, fans - was able to turn things around and have the type of season he did. Particualry when you consider that conventional wisdom chalked up his previous successes to steroids in the first place and then he goes out and produces against the backdrop of the most vigorous testing program in league history. Not to mention the fact that he is probably one of the five most scrutinized players in the game.

I am not denying he cheated then. I also think that he has been duly punished for his transgressions.

The award seems deserved.

rkmsuf · 10-07-2005, 09:02 AM

Said Giambi, "I'd like to thank all the fans. Getting back on the juice was the best thing I ever did."

John Galt · 10-07-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

I think it is fairly compelling that a guy whose career had been pretty much been written off by everyone - his team, sportswriters, fans - was able to turn things around and have the type of season he did. Particualry when you consider that conventional wisdom chalked up his previous successes to steroids in the first place and then he goes out and produces against the backdrop of the most vigorous testing program in league history. Not to mention the fact that he is probably one of the five most scrutinized players in the game.

I am not denying he cheated then. I also think that he has been duly punished for his transgressions.

The award seems deserved.

I agree with Subby, although I am sympathetic to the critics. I find something inspiring about someone whose life fell apart (even by their own doing) coming back. Not to bring politics into it, but Giambi's story seems not unlike that of our president. Of course, maybe people are upset because Giambi's comeback was so quick. That way, there wasn't enough time for the shame/redemption cycle to play out. I'm just thinking out loud here, but for now, I don't have a problem with the award to Giambi.

moriarty · 10-07-2005, 09:09 AM

I have no problem with Giambi winning. The fact is he admitted to steroids (at least to a grand jury if we are to believe the testimony). I hold this in much higher esteem than someone like Bonds who claims innocence. Baseball didn't kick him out of the game, that was their choice. So you can't really say he doesn't deserve to win b/c he should be banned as a cheater. MLB obviously doesn't see it that way, and it's their award.

But bigger picture (if you believe Giambi's off the juice ... and I do, surely he's not that stupid) ... this is a nice story for MLB. Basically the guy admits he's wrong, gets off the juice and struggles. Then he works his tail off, is contrite with the fans and guess what ... he succeeds without the juice. So in MLB's eyes, him winning the award is a message to all players, kids, etc... that you don't need the juice to be a star, you just need hard work. Had he failed miserably and left baseball, the message would have been - either do the juice or forget having a career in MLB. I like this story better.

John Galt · 10-07-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty

But bigger picture (if you believe Giambi's off the juice ... and I do, surely he's not that stupid) ... this is a nice story for MLB. Basically the guy admits he's wrong, gets off the juice and struggles. Then he works his tail off, is contrite with the fans and guess what ... he succeeds without the juice. So in MLB's eyes, him winning the award is a message to all players, kids, etc... that you don't need the juice to be a star, you just need hard work. Had he failed miserably and left baseball, the message would have been - either do the juice or forget having a career in MLB. I like this story better.

Great post. And I like this story better too.

Subby · 10-07-2005, 09:25 AM

Wow. Great post moriarty.

st.cronin · 10-07-2005, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty

I have no problem with Giambi winning. The fact is he admitted to steroids (at least to a grand jury if we are to believe the testimony). I hold this in much higher esteem than someone like Bonds who claims innocence. Baseball didn't kick him out of the game, that was their choice. So you can't really say he doesn't deserve to win b/c he should be banned as a cheater. MLB obviously doesn't see it that way, and it's their award.

But bigger picture (if you believe Giambi's off the juice ... and I do, surely he's not that stupid) ... this is a nice story for MLB. Basically the guy admits he's wrong, gets off the juice and struggles. Then he works his tail off, is contrite with the fans and guess what ... he succeeds without the juice. So in MLB's eyes, him winning the award is a message to all players, kids, etc... that you don't need the juice to be a star, you just need hard work. Had he failed miserably and left baseball, the message would have been - either do the juice or forget having a career in MLB. I like this story better.

I can see this point of view, but I can't embrace it.

G-Man · 10-07-2005, 09:31 AM

This would be a moot argument were he not on the Yankees. Richie Sexson has better stats and should have won the award, plain and simple. But because he plays on the Seattle Mariners, he did not get the award.

Sexson - 558 99 147 36 1 39 121 1 1 89 .263 .369 .541 .910
Giambi - 417 74 113 14 0 32 87 0 0 108 .271 .440 .535 .975

Look at the AB's, runs, hits, doubles RBI's!! How can you pick Giambi based on stats, which is what this award used to be purely about, unlike the MVP award! Has this changed as well? Is this award now about the team too??

Once again the East Coast Bias (see Washington Huskies, 1991) comes into play!!

Oh and here are Giambi's and Sexson's stats from 2004:
Sexson - 23 90 20 21 4 0 9 52 23 14 21 0 0 .233 .337 .578 .914
Giambi - 80 264 33 55 9 0 12 100 40 47 62 0 1 .208 .342 .379 .720

The first number is games, Sexson only played in 23 vs Giambi's 80!!!! So who really cameback from a poorer season, as well!!??

ISiddiqui · 10-07-2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

This would be a moot argument were he not on the Yankees. Richie Sexson has better stats and should have won the award, plain and simple. But because he plays on the Seattle Mariners, he did not get the award.

Sexson - 558 99 147 36 1 39 121 1 1 89 .263 .369 .541 .910
Giambi - 417 74 113 14 0 32 87 0 0 108 .271 .440 .535 .975

Look at the AB's, runs, hits, doubles RBI's!! How can you pick Giambi based on stats, which is what this award used to be purely about, unlike the MVP award! Has this changed as well? Is this award now about the team too??

Once again the East Coast Bias (see Washington Huskies, 1991) comes into play!!

Um... did you happen to miss that OPS stat at the end?

Sure Sexson has a little bit better SLG, but Giambi has a far better OBP and that leads him to a 65 point lead over Sexson in OPS. How you can claim East Coast Bias and say Sexson had a better lead with that much of a difference in OPS is something I can't fathom.

Crapshoot · 10-07-2005, 09:36 AM

The moral police never fail to astound me.

G-Man · 10-07-2005, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Um... did you happen to miss that OPS stat at the end?

Sure Sexson has a little bit better SLG, but Giambi has a far better OBP and that leads him to a 65 point lead over Sexson in OPS. How you can claim East Coast Bias and say Sexson had a better lead with that much of a difference in OPS is something I can't fathom.

Perhaps had Giambi played in as many games as Sexson and had as many plate appearances than you could compare these numbers. As it is you cannot as I am pretty sure that Giambi's numbers would have come down had he batted 141 more times! What you can compare is how much each player contributed to his team. Sexson played in over 30 more games than Giambi and delivered 34 more RBI's which is the real SIGNIFICANT stat that should be looked at here as both players are paid for the runs they drive in!! They are not leadoff hitters!!

Subby · 10-07-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Look at the AB's, runs, hits, doubles RBI's!!

Yeah, this is where I stopped reading.

MOST IMPROVED AT BATS!!! W000T!!! RIBBIES!!!!

jeff061 · 10-07-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

The moral police never fail to astound me.

I guess it depends how you define it. With steroids I'll act in a way where I could get accused of this. Cocaine or anything that only affects you? I don't really care, but once you start getting awarded and cheered for it...

I'll chalk it up as a difference of opinion. Personally I'd like to see Giambi in stocks on Lansdowne street.

colt45 · 10-07-2005, 09:55 AM

Just a thought - HOW was Giamni punished? They way I look at it is that he still got to play, he still made the MAD money - more than I (who has never used performance enhancing drupgs) will ever make, and now he gets a reward? Maybe I just don't know what he had to do - besides being tested more vigorously than others (and in my opinion, he should have been and still should be) and testifying for the grand jury, which doesn't seem like a punishment.
I work daily with people that face life situations like his - got into something, got caught, pulled themselves back up - and those actions should be applauded. But I do believe it is a double-standard. People in the everyday world actually suffer and lose homes, family, jobs, careers and have to start from the bottom. Maybe I would feel more gung-ho for JG if he even talked about - he has an opportunity to MAKE this a great story by advocating against it, for being someone who is making strides to keep youth away from his path. It could be a great story if he participated in it.

Oops. I was supposed to be done. This time I am. 4 reals.

10-07-2005, 06:24 AM	#2
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Palmeiro will undoubtedly win next year. __________________

10-07-2005, 06:42 AM	#4
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	I was hoping I would've received this award this year. I woke up pissed to know that Giambi got it and not me. __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

10-07-2005, 07:29 AM	#8
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Good for Giambi. He deserves it fully. He had an awful year last year and did extremely well this year. Definition of a comeback. Play your moral judgments elsewhere. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

10-07-2005, 07:32 AM	#9
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Nope, you're wrong. He shouldn't even be allowed within 10 miles of a field, let alone win awards. __________________ Last edited by jeff061 : 10-07-2005 at 07:32 AM.

10-07-2005, 07:52 AM	#16
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Would be with me. If Ortiz was busted tomorrow I wouldn't be treating it any differently and I think the same is true for most Sox fans. __________________

10-07-2005, 06:43 AM	#5
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	what's up with all the knee problems with the steroid guys? Giambi had an inflamed knee, Bonds had like 87 surgeries, Palmiero was originally sent home to rehab his knee.... I think knee is baseball code for steroids.

10-07-2005, 06:48 AM	#6
colt45 n00b Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dallas	This will be known as "The day we quit watching MLB" around my house. Wow. What kind of lesson does this give? If you're a no-name and we catch you with steriods, Sorry amigo, but we'll make sure to drag your name in the mud. But you are a big name, someone we've given previous accolades to while you were CLEARLY on the juice? - Aw, heck, we all make mistakes! Take this league-wide award showing that we sure are glad you're only a third as good as you were on the stuff. Seriously, I just can't see where anyone in the league could have signed off of that. It's not a message that does anything to support the fact that MLB is serious at all about cleaning up the game. Sorry - I will now dismount my soapbox.

10-07-2005, 07:10 AM	#7
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	It's amazing that something like this would happen under Bud Selig's watch.

10-07-2005, 07:34 AM	#10
colt45 n00b Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dallas	Agreed. MLB waiting on suspending Rafie, they made no inquiry into the Bonds, Giambi, BALCO thing - the ONLY reason at all they addressed the issue was pressure from Congress. As fans, or former fans, we have a right and a place to say that we won't support it. Baseball is a passionate sport for many. And many of us don't like to see it tainted/marred by these cheaters that aren't disciplined, and sometimes rewarded.

10-07-2005, 07:45 AM	#11
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	So wait, a guy admitted he did something wrong when it wasn't even against the rules of the sport and everyone's acting like he's a convicted kiddy rapist out on a technicality? It's a sport people and he had a great season in comparison to the last. I would think this message is a positive one. He made a big mistake, took a lot of crap for it and was still able to come back ,work hard, and do good things. Sounds like a decent message to send.

10-07-2005, 07:48 AM	#12
Jon High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000	We tend to forget the difference between Giambi and Palmeiro -- Palmeiro failed a steriod test, Giambi did not. He tells the truth before the Grand Jury, quits taking steroids, apologizes (which could have been for forthcoming, but understandably considering he was allowed to talk about his testimony before the Grand Jury), and comes back from an awful year. It's a comeback story, plain and simple.

10-07-2005, 07:50 AM	#14
TazFTW Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI	I voted for him (and Junior).

10-07-2005, 08:04 AM	#18
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	A lot of shit's illegal. Guy gets busted with a gun and has a lousy season due to the legal troubles and comes back gangbusters the season after that and wins Comeback Player of the Year,-- no one would complain. Baseball is not the justice department. He didn't violate any baseball rules. And if anyone would employ Rafy next year, he'd be just as eligible for the award provided he put up amazing numbers.

10-07-2005, 08:06 AM	#19
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	They did something that tainted the game and should be vilified for it. If he hadn't of cheated in the first place he never would of been in a position to be rewarded I could care less whether it's in the rule book. I'm sure there are plenty examples of crimes that are not covered in baseball rules, doesn't mean you give them a free pass. __________________

10-07-2005, 08:07 AM	#21
mh2365 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: louisville	Giambi also played like crap during the first half of the season when the so-called heavy testing was going on. Then when the testing slows down in the second half of the season he bulks up and goes on a tear. Under what kind of half-assed testing program does this not set off all sorts of alarms. Pretty sure if I was on probation for speed and during the first 1/2 of my probation I weighed in at 250 and always looked tired from working, then in the second 1/2 I dropped 50 lbs and was always happy and bouncing in and out of probation I'd be tested immediately. God I hope McCain does something about this crap, it's ruining baseball. Also the press will be all over it so it over shadows the fact that Griffey finally had a long and productive year. __________________ "I'm the root of all that's evil, yeah but you can call me cookie"

10-07-2005, 08:08 AM	#22
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	If cocaine was the reason for his downfall, yes. I've never been a Strawberry fan and all his apologists drove me up the friggin wall. __________________

10-07-2005, 08:35 AM	#27
colt45 n00b Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dallas	Giambi admitted to it, the Yankees even researched getting out of his contract - the point is fans (and I believe most players) thing that steriod use is a form of cheating. The governing body of an organization should do everything in it's power to curtail that cheating AND punish those who have been found to have cheated through their testing OR admitted to it. As for 'Comeback' - doesn't the term reference the fact that a certain level of excellence had been achieved, followed by a period not up to the same level, to be reached again? In my opinion, if that original excellence was met through illegal means, how is it any reward to show that without some sort of performance enhancer you got kind of close again? It's like saying, "Well, see, even without the cream and the clear, he's pretty okay-ish. Have a reward. Don't worry about all those other guys that have done just as amazing things as you have, worked harder, and didn't even bother to skirt the system. YOU deserve it more..." I just can't get behind that.

10-07-2005, 08:40 AM	#29
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	It's the combination of factors that makes this repulsive to some of us - that steroids are against the law, and are performance-enhancing. Even if not proscribed by MLB, taking steroids is CHEATING. Cheaters should not be rewarded for not cheating. That's why it's a bull**** award, and another mark against baseball's integrity. The Orioles did the right thing (for the wrong reasons, most likely) by sending Palmeiro home; the Yanks should have done the same thing with Giambi, just sat him down and told him he's not welcome anymore, and he should maybe look into another career.

10-07-2005, 08:42 AM	#31
colt45 n00b Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dallas	I guess I'm in the crowd on this one. And that's fine. I'll just sit at the 'un-cool' kids side of the cafeteria... So, I'm done. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on an issue.

10-07-2005, 08:54 AM	#34
colt45 n00b Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dallas	Good 'ole Rollie. You're not saying he was on the juice, too, are you?

10-07-2005, 09:01 AM	#37
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	I think it is fairly compelling that a guy whose career had been pretty much been written off by everyone - his team, sportswriters, fans - was able to turn things around and have the type of season he did. Particualry when you consider that conventional wisdom chalked up his previous successes to steroids in the first place and then he goes out and produces against the backdrop of the most vigorous testing program in league history. Not to mention the fact that he is probably one of the five most scrutinized players in the game. I am not denying he cheated then. I also think that he has been duly punished for his transgressions. The award seems deserved. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

10-07-2005, 09:02 AM	#38
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Said Giambi, "I'd like to thank all the fans. Getting back on the juice was the best thing I ever did." __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

10-07-2005, 09:09 AM	#40
moriarty College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: A negative place	I have no problem with Giambi winning. The fact is he admitted to steroids (at least to a grand jury if we are to believe the testimony). I hold this in much higher esteem than someone like Bonds who claims innocence. Baseball didn't kick him out of the game, that was their choice. So you can't really say he doesn't deserve to win b/c he should be banned as a cheater. MLB obviously doesn't see it that way, and it's their award. But bigger picture (if you believe Giambi's off the juice ... and I do, surely he's not that stupid) ... this is a nice story for MLB. Basically the guy admits he's wrong, gets off the juice and struggles. Then he works his tail off, is contrite with the fans and guess what ... he succeeds without the juice. So in MLB's eyes, him winning the award is a message to all players, kids, etc... that you don't need the juice to be a star, you just need hard work. Had he failed miserably and left baseball, the message would have been - either do the juice or forget having a career in MLB. I like this story better.

10-07-2005, 09:25 AM	#42
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Wow. Great post moriarty. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

10-07-2005, 09:31 AM	#44
G-Man High School JV Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Seattle, Washington	Forget the reason why Giambi "sucked" last year.... This would be a moot argument were he not on the Yankees. Richie Sexson has better stats and should have won the award, plain and simple. But because he plays on the Seattle Mariners, he did not get the award. Sexson - 558 99 147 36 1 39 121 1 1 89 .263 .369 .541 .910 Giambi - 417 74 113 14 0 32 87 0 0 108 .271 .440 .535 .975 Look at the AB's, runs, hits, doubles RBI's!! How can you pick Giambi based on stats, which is what this award used to be purely about, unlike the MVP award! Has this changed as well? Is this award now about the team too?? Once again the East Coast Bias (see Washington Huskies, 1991) comes into play!! Oh and here are Giambi's and Sexson's stats from 2004: Sexson - 23 90 20 21 4 0 9 52 23 14 21 0 0 .233 .337 .578 .914 Giambi - 80 264 33 55 9 0 12 100 40 47 62 0 1 .208 .342 .379 .720 The first number is games, Sexson only played in 23 vs Giambi's 80!!!! So who really cameback from a poorer season, as well!!?? __________________ Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Last edited by G-Man : 10-07-2005 at 09:35 AM.

10-07-2005, 09:36 AM	#46
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	The moral police never fail to astound me.

10-07-2005, 09:55 AM	#50
colt45 n00b Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dallas	Just a thought - HOW was Giamni punished? They way I look at it is that he still got to play, he still made the MAD money - more than I (who has never used performance enhancing drupgs) will ever make, and now he gets a reward? Maybe I just don't know what he had to do - besides being tested more vigorously than others (and in my opinion, he should have been and still should be) and testifying for the grand jury, which doesn't seem like a punishment. I work daily with people that face life situations like his - got into something, got caught, pulled themselves back up - and those actions should be applauded. But I do believe it is a double-standard. People in the everyday world actually suffer and lose homes, family, jobs, careers and have to start from the bottom. Maybe I would feel more gung-ho for JG if he even talked about - he has an opportunity to MAKE this a great story by advocating against it, for being someone who is making strides to keep youth away from his path. It could be a great story if he participated in it. Oops. I was supposed to be done. This time I am. 4 reals.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)