COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

The easiest way to tell without a vaccine passport is to confront the following people without masks:

People with the American flag on their shirt or hat; or

Women in yoga pants with a child over 5 in the middle of the day.

100% none of them are vaccinated.

FWIW, one of my favorite t-shirts has the American flag front and center. Yeah, I'm vaccinated

[Edward64]

Another ethical conundrum. WHO is asking wealthier nations to give vaccines to less fortunate countries instead of vaccinating their own youth.

I absolutely empathize with this. But no, US has to look after the US first. With that said, the US should contribute more $ to Covax fund and donate the vaccines it never plans on using (e.g. Astra Zeneca).

Wealthier nations should postpone plans to give children and teenagers Covid vaccines and instead donate supplies to low-income countries, the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) says.

Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus on Friday urged countries to supply more vaccines to the global fair-access scheme Covax.

The international distribution of Covid vaccines remains vastly uneven.

Since the first vaccines were approved in December, wealthier countries have bought up most of the supply.

[Brian Swartz]

I think the WHO is correct. We should be vaccinating all high-risk people regardless of nation first. That's complicated by the lack of reliable data in some places, but I mean simply to the degree that it's practical to do so. A small benefit to someone here is not as important as a large benefit to someone elsewhere.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think the WHO is correct. We should be vaccinating all high-risk people regardless of nation first. That's complicated by the lack of reliable data in some places, but I mean simply to the degree that it's practical to do so. A small benefit to someone here is not as important as a large benefit to someone elsewhere.

Its more like a very large benefit to a smaller group of people here (is or is not) as important as a very large benefit to a much larger group elsewhere.

Kids still do get sick, kids still do die, kids still have to deal with complications etc.

The question I think you are drawing is US kids worth that much more than adults and kids from less fortunate countries? It is from your relative point of view but as a US President, yeah it should be.

Children Now Account For 22% Of New U.S. COVID Cases. Why Is That? : Coronavirus Updates : NPR

Now, the part where that conversation about severity gets a little bit more complicated is yes, it is absolutely true that it's less severe in kids than it is in adults, and particularly older adults. But it's also not true to say that it's completely benign in kids. Fortunately, pediatric death is a fairly rare event. But when you look at the top 10 causes of death, on an annual basis, this year, we've had, depending on whose numbers you use, somewhere between 300 and 600 pediatric deaths from COVID-19 so far. That's probably an undercount. And that would fit it somewhere in the top 10, somewhere between like No. 6 and No. 9 in terms of causes of death for children.

So the point I'm making, there is that yes, it's less severe, but it's still potentially a very severe disease. We've seen tens of thousands of hospitalizations already. So we do need a vaccine for children, not just to protect, not just to achieve herd immunity, but also to protect the children themselves.

In kids, we have seen it, but it doesn't seem to be as common as adults. We're taking care of a few kids now who are still having symptoms well over a month past their infections. I think, as little as we know about long COVID in adults, we know even less in kids. We really have even less of an understanding of the overall epidemiology of how common it is in kids.

The other question mark in my mind around this phenomenon is, many viruses can trigger sort of longer-term symptoms. A classic example would be mononucleosis: Some kids will have fatigue and symptoms for six to 12 months, occasionally even longer.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think the WHO is correct. We should be vaccinating all high-risk people regardless of nation first. That's complicated by the lack of reliable data in some places, but I mean simply to the degree that it's practical to do so. A small benefit to someone here is not as important as a large benefit to someone elsewhere.

Spoken like someone without kids.

[Brian Swartz]

Huh. I think I'm speaking like someone who doesn't think an American kid's life is more important than the life of someone born in another country who has already been worse off by far due to the misfortune of being born somewhere without world-class healthcare.

Originally Posted by Edward64

question I think you are drawing is US kids worth that much more than adults and kids from less fortunate countries? It is from your relative point of view but as a US President, yeah it should be.

I don't agree. We have to get away from prioritizing our own first. That's the first step to global equality; recognizing that people are not subhuman because they live somewhere else. It's more important for someone with the power of an office such as POTUS to make such a stand; that power isn't a justification not to do so.

Originally Posted by Edward64

Kids still do get sick, kids still do die, kids still have to deal with complications etc.

Absolutely,. and that is a tragedy. But they don't do so at nearly the rate as other demographics do. The benefit to kids here is not nearly as great as the benefit to those other groups of people.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Huh. I think I'm speaking like someone who doesn't think an American kid's life is more important than the life of someone born in another country who has already been worse off by far due to the misfortune of being born somewhere without world-class healthcare.

.

I suspect you wouldn't be so altruistic if it was your kids.

[Brian Swartz]

You're right, I probably wouldn't. I would also consider that to be a character flaw in myself.

The question though wasn't about it whether it was my kids, but about what we should do on a nationwide/global scale. I stand on the side of equality.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I suspect you wouldn't be so altruistic if it was your kids.

Maybe he's had some salacious rendezvous in other countries.

[miami_fan]

As a person with kids, I am going to agree with Brian. I believe that the goal should be to protect the most vulnerable nationally and globally. I definitely want to make sure that my kid is protected but I have to acknowledge that my son is much more protected and less vulnerable n his current situation than say an elderly person or someone with underlying conditions is a worse situation somewhere else.

[miami_fan]

Dola,

I say all that but once my wife. my son and I all feel comfortable with him getting the vaccine, he will get it. It feels similar to the debate early on about whether teachers should get the vaccine before say lawyers.

[Thomkal]

So we went to Publix today to pick up a few things, and we noticed that employees did not have masks on for the first time in a long time. Interestingly most customers still did wear them. And for those who still need a vaccine shot, their pharmacy is offering walk-in and get your shot, no appointment needed.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think the WHO is correct. We should be vaccinating all high-risk people regardless of nation first. That's complicated by the lack of reliable data in some places, but I mean simply to the degree that it's practical to do so. A small benefit to someone here is not as important as a large benefit to someone elsewhere.

Agree. Not to mention that it helps limit the variants that could spur in these countries and be immune to our vaccine.

This shit requires a global solution.

[Brian Swartz]

I'm glad to see this kind of crossover. Normally Rainmaker, miamifan and myself couldn't agree that water is wet. Always good to have a moment of common ground.

[miami_fan]

To go back to a conversation we had a while about pandemic changes that will stick, I wonder if everything has gone back to pre-pandemic in the way you go about your day or have changes that you made during the pandemic stuck. Not necessarily about remote working as I think we have updated that conversation recently. I am talking more about online shopping /curbside pickup, working out at home vs going to the gym, or just conducting personal business online as opposed to going to a bank etc. In the last week or so, I have had several conversations with different people about how they have not set foot in a brick and mortar store since like May 2020 and they now do all of their shopping online and have it delivered or they do curbside pickup. From what they say, they are not scared of crowds, the virus, or anything like that. They just don't see any reason to go into the store when they don't have to and they have perfected their own personal shopping experience. I have seen an increase in people in the neighborhood having some sort of strength training set up in their garages though the parking lot of the closest gym is packed most of the day and a friend who owns a gym has seen a strong return after he fully re-opened.

I don't think I have changed too much tbh. Mostly because so many of the changes that were required were not that drastic to the way we normally lived. One change that I have made is I have signed up for a couple of subscription services to get some of my favorite toiletries delivered to the house. These are brands that are not widely distributed and if they are they are more expensive when I see them in most stores. It is as much of a financial decision as one of convenience. I can see myself signing up for more of these in the future Plus, I don't necessarily go to the stores during the peak shopping hours. I have started going back to the gym but I wear a mask while I work out and I have always been a bit obsessive about wiping down the equipment. Also again, I tend to go at off peak hours when I do. Yes, I am one of the four people in the gym if you drive past it at 9:30pm on a Tuesday night. While I don't like necessarily working out with people, I do enjoy working out around people. We have not really ventured out to restaurants or anything like that just yet. I know that is not intentional. We just have not felt the urge to go.

Anyone else feel like they have made permanent or semi permanent changes to their everyday life?

[albionmoonlight]

This is sort of about work, but my job involves a lot of visits to local jails to see clients. And a lot of them got videoconferencing equipment installed for the pandemic. And they aren't going to rip that out. So that's a good change. A lot of times, the conversation you need to have is just 15 minutes of "We got in the plea offer, and it is like we discussed. Are you still ok with a plea next week?" But if the jail was 90 minutes away, it took half a day to do it. Now, that 15 minute conversation takes 15 minutes.

Personally, we had already started online shopping mostly. We increased it during the pandemic, and I see that remaining as our default.

We got more used to takeout than dining out. I see that remaining, too. Bring the food home, watch a movie with the kids. Cheaper (no drinks) and more pleasant. My wife and I will still have date nights. But I expect most of our family eating out will remain family takeout.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am talking more about online shopping /curbside pickup, working out at home vs going to the gym, or just conducting personal business online as opposed to going to a bank etc. In the last week or so, I have had several conversations with different people about how they have not set foot in a brick and mortar store since like May 2020 and they now do all of their shopping online and have it delivered or they do curbside pickup. From what they say, they are not scared of crowds, the virus, or anything like that. They just don't see any reason to go into the store when they don't have to and they have perfected their own personal shopping experience.

Heh, my wife figured this out some fifteen years ago. Now, some of this was out of necessity - our credit union is an hour away, she works nights, etc. But in general she doesn't like crowds, prefers staying at home. Oh, and doesn't typically do the grocery shopping. Almost everything else is ordered online, has been for ages.

What she HAS missed is eating out. Though even then we try to avoid crowds, eating at odd times or at less-frequented places.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Heh, my wife figured this out some fifteen years ago. Now, some of this was out of necessity - our credit union is an hour away, she works nights, etc. But in general she doesn't like crowds, prefers staying at home. Oh, and doesn't typically do the grocery shopping. Almost everything else is ordered online, has been for ages.

What she HAS missed is eating out. Though even then we try to avoid crowds, eating at odd times or at less-frequented places.

Well I know we have a thread here somewhere that documents my baby steps into online food shopping in particular. I am still not there yet but maybe lol.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

We got more used to takeout than dining out. I see that remaining, too. Bring the food home, watch a movie with the kids. Cheaper (no drinks) and more pleasant. My wife and I will still have date nights. But I expect most of our family eating out will remain family takeout.

This is the case with us as well. If we just want to get something to eat, it is take out. If we want an experience, we are going to the restaurant. I guess we have not had a need for those experiences.

[albionmoonlight]

https://twitter.com/i/events/1397281219797164035

Looks like Russia is offering to pay Europeans to be public anti-vaxers.

Americans are so selfless and giving that we're willing to work for Russian propaganda for free.

[molson]

So what's your price to be a public anti-vaxxer? Every day you have to post anti-vaxx information with scripted commentary under your own established social media accounts.

You can tell people offline that you've been bought, but I'm not sure "It's OK, the Russians are paying me to do this" would salvage your reputation much.

I don't know if I could do it at any cost. It would definitely have to be well into the 7 figures.

Also, it's pretty awesome that there was no posts in this thread for 8 days. And to see the numbers continue to decline. And to look at a news website where there's sometimes little or even nothing on the front page about COVID. I got my Red Sox tickets for late June this morning, it seems everything else is opening up for that trip where I'll see my parents and siblings for the first time in a year and half. Things are on the upswing.

[NobodyHere]

I think I'd do it for $100,000

[NobodyHere]

Fingers crossed that I win the Ohio Vaccination Lottery tonight!

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Fingers crossed that I win the Ohio Vaccination Lottery tonight!

I haven't followed that much, has it made a noticeable impact in numbers? Definitely an interesting concept.

[NobodyHere]

Governor Mike Dewine has been claiming the lottery has improved vaccine rates.

[albionmoonlight]

It has. Since the announcement, Ohio rates have done better than the national average.

As someone said, it is an incentive targeted to people with a poor understanding of probability and risk assessment--the exact sort of people who are remaining unvaxed.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

It's actually not a bad idea. Make a $500,000 lottery for everyone who gets a flu shot every year. Does not cost the state much, but it probably increases rates in a notable way. More than ads on bus stops, etc.

[NobodyHere]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-v...lottery-shots/

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Fingers crossed that I win the Ohio Vaccination Lottery tonight!

Nope

[Lathum]

NJ lifted indoor mask mandate and capacity requirements today. Went to the liquor store first, walked in and immediately the cashier, not masked, sneezed into his open hand. Rethinking my choice to not wear a mask already.

Went to Shoprite next. I would say about 35% of people were unmasked. What I was wondering is of the 65% masked, are they worried about illness or is it societal pressure to wear a mask.

[molson]

Our governor went out of state for business for a couple of days, and the Lt. Governor immediately passed an executive order banning mask mandates. The governor came back and repealed it a day later.

It's all theater, there's not many mask mandates left in the state, it's just funny to me (and scary) how the regular Republicans and the wacky Republicans fight each other in red states. This is why I briefly register Republican to vote in the closed primaries.

This is our Lt. Governor. She is running for Governor next year

[GrantDawg]

I have never ever ever ever understood the hardcore tie between gun culture and Evangelicals. It has always made zero sense to me.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I have never ever ever ever understood the hardcore tie between gun culture and Evangelicals. It has always made zero sense to me.

Religious extremists and violence have gone hand in hand for a long time.

They're just ISIS but white.

[PilotMan]

The rise of Christian Nationalism is exactly that. It's extremist religious zealots that feel like the separation of church and state should not happen, and that freedom of religion shouldn't be a thing and they are willing to fight for that truth. I think they believe that's the way the founding fathers intended it, in spite of how things are written. When you're that far removed from the center of the country the truths about it don't matter any longer and they pose the same potential risk as ISIS.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Religious extremists and violence have gone hand in hand for a long time.

They're just ISIS but white.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The rise of Christian Nationalism is exactly that. It's extremist religious zealots that feel like the separation of church and state should not happen, and that freedom of religion shouldn't be a thing and they are willing to fight for that truth. I think they believe that's the way the founding fathers intended it, in spite of how things are written. When you're that far removed from the center of the country the truths about it don't matter any longer and they pose the same potential risk as ISIS.

These responses, one short and concise, the other more eloquent and detailed, are both spot on.

Thump your bible and pass the ammo

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The rise of Christian Nationalism is exactly that. It's extremist religious zealots that feel like the separation of church and state should not happen, and that freedom of religion shouldn't be a thing and they are willing to fight for that truth. I think they believe that's the way the founding fathers intended it, in spite of how things are written. When you're that far removed from the center of the country the truths about it don't matter any longer and they pose the same potential risk as ISIS.

I'd add that I think the religion part is secondary to these folks. Most don't adhere to any Christian values, just like ISIS doesn't adhere to most Muslim values. It's just a way to justify doing things they want.

I mean the evangelical movement fell head over heels for a thrice divorced grifter who admits to sexually assaulting women. Pretty sure those "Christian values" are just made up.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Religious extremists and violence have gone hand in hand for a long time.

They're just ISIS but white.

WHISIS?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

https://twitter.com/i/events/1397281219797164035

Looks like Russia is offering to pay Europeans to be public anti-vaxers.

Americans are so selfless and giving that we're willing to work for Russian propaganda for free.

I mean, the official SputnikV Twitter Account posted basically the same sort of thing a month ago, too (aside from anything else it's just the absolute height of bad form) with some halfbaked cherrypicked data about "Deaths after Vaccine" showing how much worse Pfizer supposedly was.
(The easy reason for mRNA was used most frequently by far in elderly people in quite a few countries on the list + mostly in countries tracking this more thoroughly)

[whomario]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I have never ever ever ever understood the hardcore tie between gun culture and Evangelicals. It has always made zero sense to me.

You have to admit, they are more practical than Swords.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'd add that I think the religion part is secondary to these folks....

That just has to be it. I grew up in Evangelical churches, but what I see of today's evangelicals have nothing in common with what I was taught growing up.

[PilotMan]

When you boil it way way down, religion is basically a means to an end anyway. So these extremists are a natural evolution of the way religion has been used for eons.

[Lathum]

Went to the grocery store this morning and I would say about 50% of people were maskless, including employees.

One thing I noticed is some people give you a wide berth when they see you maskless.

[Edward64]

Had breakfast with a couple friends. We sat outside but there was a fair number inside. Tables were pretty well spaced apart. Good to see things going (slowly) back to normal.

[CrimsonFox]

Get ever tired of people declaring "Hey! The pandemic's over!"

[whomario]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Get ever tired of people declaring "Hey! The pandemic's over!"

Nothing compared to people still hellbent on 'proving' there never was one happening in the first place. I still come upon people doing insane mental gymnastics to say it was basically like a flue season. And not to forget the (often the same) people blasting the panic about the plandemic, then turn around and claiming the vaccines are genocide.

[Edward64]

Went into REI today. Honor system, if you are fully vaccinated, you can go in without a mask. The vast majority were still wearing masks (including the staff).

Went to Kroger and they still are requiring masks (for now).

[Ksyrup]

Kroger here is not, most stores are not. I haven't felt the need to wear a mask the past couple of weeks as restrictions have been lifted. Next goal for me is live shows in the fall.

[PilotMan]

I just spent 3 days in Denver. I didn't wear a mask in the hotel, in the restaurants, in the shuttles or training center. It was really nice. I know that KY law hasn't changed officially yet, and our Kroger still has the mask signage on the door, but I'd say that fully 80% of people stopped wearing them.

[Brian Swartz]

Still wearing a mask all the time myself. It's part of the service for my job, and we're at about half-n-half around here.

[Ghost Econ]

Im on my 5th sickness since the pandemic started. All upper respiratory. So far all have been COVID negative. But I always mask, wash my had, and really don't go out amongst people, but I still manage to catch colds.