The Official 2019 NBA Off-season Thread

[miami_fan]

Sources: Lakers reach deal for Pelicans' Davis

And the off-season has begun.

Weren't the rumors that Mrs. Benson said a trade to the Lakers would happen "over her dead body"?

Good start for the Rob Pelinka Lakers.

[stevew]

Didn't have to make a trade. Could have kicked the can down the road til Feb and gotten a good trade. If Davis wouldn't report, fine him. IMO hold out for Kuzma who makes nothing for 2 years and is better than those 2 guys

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Didn't have to make a trade. Could have kicked the can down the road til Feb and gotten a good trade. If Davis wouldn't report, fine him. IMO hold out for Kuzma who makes nothing for 2 years and is better than those 2 guys

I gotta think the motivation for this deal now was the #4 overall pick ... which I figure they'll flip for at least two other 1st round picks. (Atlanta seems like a fair possibility for that)

[miami_fan]

At some point, the Pelicans had to move forward for what is best for the organization and not be concerned about keeping Davis away from the Lakers.

[Groundhog]

To be honest I think it's a great trade for New Orleans. I don't think Ball is anything particularly special but he is a solid defender, and a Ball/Holiday backcourt could be pretty special defensively. Ingram I haven't been sold on since day 1, but he's still 21 years old and if his shooting stroke improves he's solid depth at the 2/3 spots.

Plus the #4 pick (if they keep it) gives them a lot of options. There's a drop off after the top 3 guys in this draft, but there's a bunch of interesting guys in this draft. Pelicans can afford to be a bit unconventional with the pick and even select for need. Zion's teammate Reddish would be maybe the textbook selection, or take a flyer on someone like Doumbouya.

Ironically they now finally have the depth they never could get to surround AD, it just cost them AD to do it... And I think it will translate to more wins in a season or two, especially if Zion lives up to the hype.

As for the Lakers, well... again, what else can they assemble around LeBron and AD. I don't rate Kuzma that highly but he at least fills out their frontcourt, but they'll need to do better than veteran cast-offs like Rondo and Beasley et al... will the drama of the Lakers organisation impact their ability to land vets to compete now in a wide-open league? Is Kemba a chance in LA? I don't think just landing AD makes them an instant title favourite, it's going to take a few more pieces.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

There's a drop off after the top 3 guys in this draft

Given that drop off, I'd be downright shocked if they kept the pick & used it this season.

[Galaril]

I am glad Celtics stuck with their young guys.

[miami_fan]

The Pelicans will get the following picks from the Lakers, league sources tell ESPN:

No. 4 pick in 2019
Top-8 protected in 2021, becomes unprotected in ‘22
Unprotected swap in ‘23
Unprotected first in ‘24
Unprotected swap in ‘25

Tremendous haul for David Griffin & the Pelicans.

— Tim Bontemps (@TimBontemps) June 16, 2019

[bhlloy]

Yeah I think that, plus the shallow roster that the Lakers have plus the potential for AD to get hurt again and LeBron to just get old makes it potentially a slam dunk. The counterpoint is that the 4th this year isn’t as valuable as it would be most years and that’s a long time to wait for those assets but a competent GM can use all those pieces to build a very good team.

Are the Pelicans competent enough to make it work I guess is the question.

[stevew]

Ok some of those swaps could be good post LeBron

[bhlloy]

Important piece seems to be that by trading for AD now (or immediately after the moratorium ends) they won't have space for a max FA no matter what happens. It's going to be a fascinating to see if LeBron can stay healthy and dominant long enough to contend in two seasons, because I'm not sure if the team they can put around him and AD is good enough to win a title next year, no matter how happy Laker fans are right now.

I think it's the type of deal that could well turn out like the time the Nets tried to do the same thing, the one thing that LA will always be is a huge free agent destination so it's entirely possible that they can just spend their way out of it though.

[Lathum]

ugh

SHOOTING:
Nathan Phillip's Square
-Reports of woman shot
-People running from area
-Police/EMS are on scene
-Unknown what the injuries are#GO112676
^dh

— Toronto Police OPS (@TPSOperations) June 17, 2019

[Mota]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Important piece seems to be that by trading for AD now (or immediately after the moratorium ends) they won't have space for a max FA no matter what happens. It's going to be a fascinating to see if LeBron can stay healthy and dominant long enough to contend in two seasons, because I'm not sure if the team they can put around him and AD is good enough to win a title next year, no matter how happy Laker fans are right now.

I think it's the type of deal that could well turn out like the time the Nets tried to do the same thing, the one thing that LA will always be is a huge free agent destination so it's entirely possible that they can just spend their way out of it though.

If you can have 3 MAX slots on one team, doesn't that indicate that the salary cap isn't working properly? Really, there should only be one MAX slot per team available, which is why all these super-teams keep getting manufactured. You should have a ridiculous amount of money to spend on one player, and then a reasonable amount of money to spend on the other players.

Regarding the Lakers trade, it's a great deal for Lebron. He's a jumper. By the time all the 1st round draft picks get traded and the Lakers don't have any youth in the funnel, Lebron will be off to the next super-team.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mota

If you can have 3 MAX slots on one team, doesn't that indicate that the salary cap isn't working properly? Really, there should only be one MAX slot per team available, which is why all these super-teams keep getting manufactured. You should have a ridiculous amount of money to spend on one player, and then a reasonable amount of money to spend on the other players.

The NBA's salary cap is a bloated mess. It needs simplified and streamlined.
If have a hard cap and you create ways to circumvent that hard cap then either your cap is set too low or you don't really want a hard cap. On top of that the problem the NBA has over the NFL and MLB is bad contracts can be franchise crippling. With no cap in MLB teams can spend around a bad contract or maybe ship it out with prospects while taking on some of the salary. In the NFL you can release a player and take an accelerated cap hit.

IMO the NBA needs to raise the cap, eliminate max contracts, eliminate bird years (cap becomes a hard cap), and create some sort of out for bad contracts. Rebuilding teams in the MLB can be fun to watch because of the young players coming up from the farm system and while a NFL team can be painful to watch during a rebuild teams are able to rebuild rather quickly if they draft well. Rebuilding teams in the NBA tend to be bad, not much fun to watch, and how long the rebuild takes simply comes down to luck more often than not. The only major exceptions I'd look at with a streamlined cap is a cap on how much a player can take on a 1 year deal and no out clauses in the first 3 years of a contract.

As for a way out of bad contracts, the league needs to consider something such as 2 year cap hit at the highest annual value on the contract if a player is released with more than 2 years remaining on the deal (or maybe 50% of the remaining time on the contract). Using John Wall as an example, he's due 4 years and $170 million starting next year. If the Wizards released him now they'd owe him the full $170 million, but the cap hit after being released would be $47 mil for the next 2 years. This punishes the team without giving fans no reason to watch a Wizards game for the next 5 years unless the ping pong balls bounce their way. Good for the league and good for the fans.

There are holes that can be poked into this, but I do think it's a good starting point for the direction the league needs to take.

[stevew]

They already have contract stretching though.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mota

If you can have 3 MAX slots on one team, doesn't that indicate that the salary cap isn't working properly? Really, there should only be one MAX slot per team available, which is why all these super-teams keep getting manufactured. You should have a ridiculous amount of money to spend on one player, and then a reasonable amount of money to spend on the other players.

Regarding the Lakers trade, it's a great deal for Lebron. He's a jumper. By the time all the 1st round draft picks get traded and the Lakers don't have any youth in the funnel, Lebron will be off to the next super-team.

He could very well be, but the Lakers would likely have AD, another star and a craload of money from Lebron's contract being up.

[albionmoonlight]

My thoughts from the other thread:

Normally, when you trade a superstar in the NBA, you get 75 cents on the dollar.

I think that the Pels got 85 cents on the dollar for Davis, so in that sense, it was a good trade for them.

You will still go broke, of course, trading dollars for cents, so this isn't a winning strategy over the long term. But considering that they had to trade him after the shitshow at the end of last season, they got a not-horrible return.

And this was good for the Lakers, of course. You've got some small window of LeBron's prime left. You do what you need to do to be a title contender during that time, and if you trade away a bunch of young players and picks to do it? That's a problem for five years from now. Assuming that they get one more star in free agency (they probably already have a handshake deal for one), they did what they needed to do to put the pieces around their superstar for one last run.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Weren't the rumors that Mrs. Benson said a trade to the Lakers would happen "over her dead body"?

She shot those down pretty quickly through the local media, saying that she told her people to get the best deal possible.

Considering that Mr. Benson ran the Pelicans as a side-project for the Saints management, if Mrs. Benson is even an average owner, it will be a marked improvement.

[stevew]

Knicks turning down 8&10 for 3 is defensible. But if they could also get 17(going to ATL via NETS) I kinda think they gotta do it. They may as well stream in talent since they won't get any free agents. Could also probably take a deal off of the Hornets and get another #1.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. In a 3 person draft, are you really hitting on more than 1 pick at 8, 10 and 17? In that case why not just take the very good prospect on offer at 3?

You'd really, really have to trust your scouting department to do that. In a deeper draft, maybe that makes sense.

[stevew]

I think the Knicks have been really good at hitting useful players. It's the top end decision making that sucks. Most of their draft picks have been a lot better than you'd think

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think the Knicks have been really good at hitting useful players. It's the top end decision making that sucks. Most of their draft picks have been a lot better than you'd think

Hmm.

I just looked at the last 5 Knicks drafts. It isn't pretty. Other than KP, who is injury prone, the best you can say about any of them is they are decent role players. Some of them you can't even say that. The Ntilikina pick is especially bad given some of the guys taken after him, DSJ, Mitchell, Collins, and a few others.

[stevew]

Horford to the Lakers would be a nice fit, but they'd have nobody to check point guards.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Hmm.

I just looked at the last 5 Knicks drafts. It isn't pretty. Other than KP, who is injury prone, the best you can say about any of them is they are decent role players. Some of them you can't even say that. The Ntilikina pick is especially bad given some of the guys taken after him, DSJ, Mitchell, Collins, and a few others.

Yeah, in most drafts the Knicks are better off trading their high-lottery picks for multiple lower-1sts in the hope that they screw up and accidentally draft a guy who is good at basketball. Surely they can't screw up the 3rd pick in a clear top 3 draft.

[stevew]

So sad that the Rockets guys hate each other almost as much as I hate watching them play together.

Maybe State Farm could get some less repulsive pitchmen? Paul’s so dirty and cries like a bitch.

[SirFozzie]

No Horford, No Irving?

*gulp*

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

No Horford, No Irving?

*gulp*

As much as I enjoy clowning the Celtics, I think this might be a good opportunity to clear out some bad eggs (not that Horford strikes me as a bad egg) and get better mileage for the dollar off the guys they already have. Kyrie was an obvious cancer to the team, but I suspect he's not the only one - it's been easy to read between the lines on reports about a couple of the guys who it sounds like go inflated egos with what happened the season prior. Ship them out, build around Tatum and whoever is left (although my gut tells me Tatum might be one of those dudes who had his ego get the better of him - in any case the Celtics need to keep him the hell away from Kobe this offseason and hope that stops him launching so many long 2s).

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

As much as I enjoy clowning the Celtics, I think this might be a good opportunity to clear out some bad eggs (not that Horford strikes me as a bad egg) and get better mileage for the dollar off the guys they already have. Kyrie was an obvious cancer to the team, but I suspect he's not the only one - it's been easy to read between the lines on reports about a couple of the guys who it sounds like go inflated egos with what happened the season prior. Ship them out, build around Tatum and whoever is left (although my gut tells me Tatum might be one of those dudes who had his ego get the better of him - in any case the Celtics need to keep him the hell away from Kobe this offseason and hope that stops him launching so many long 2s).

They're in an interesting position if both guys are gone, I guess you'd go Smart at point over rozier (who I think they'll move on from). Then you have a bit of a log jam with Brown, Tatum and Hayward playing the two wing positions. I don't think you can play Hayward big minutes at the 4 and I think he's a negative value on his contract so he'd be tough to trade. Then you have what Baynes and Williams at the big spots? It's a pretty weird roster, it seems like they need to move someone to balance it out. Kinda crazy that the Nets with Irving would almost be in a better position than the Celtics.

[Arles]

Can't wait for the Suns to pass on Garland, draft a wing who can't shoot at 6 and then go into the season with Elie Okobo at PG. All the while telling us why this year will be different...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. In a 3 person draft, are you really hitting on more than 1 pick at 8, 10 and 17? In that case why not just take the very good prospect on offer at 3?

You'd really, really have to trust your scouting department to do that. In a deeper draft, maybe that makes sense.

Not singling you out, but why do people keep calling this a 3 person draft? Zion is in a tier by himself, then are we pretending RJ Barrett and even Ja are definitely better than Hunter, Culver, Darius Garland, Brandon Clarke etc? I'm more confident in Ja being able to step in right away, but if Garland is as good a shooter off the dribble as people say then doesn't he have higher upside in today's game? RJ is the most alpha wing right now, but it's easier for me to see the other wings being option #2 or 3 on a high level playoff team, and we've seen athletic wings like Giannis, Kawhi, Paul George turn into lead playoff ballhandlers as frequently as high volume, lower efficiency ones like Barrett.

Originally Posted by Groundhog

As much as I enjoy clowning the Celtics, I think this might be a good opportunity to clear out some bad eggs (not that Horford strikes me as a bad egg) and get better mileage for the dollar off the guys they already have. Kyrie was an obvious cancer to the team, but I suspect he's not the only one - it's been easy to read between the lines on reports about a couple of the guys who it sounds like go inflated egos with what happened the season prior. Ship them out, build around Tatum and whoever is left (although my gut tells me Tatum might be one of those dudes who had his ego get the better of him - in any case the Celtics need to keep him the hell away from Kobe this offseason and hope that stops him launching so many long 2s).

Horford's definitely not the problem, and it'll be interesting to see which team was blatantly tampering with him. I'm assuming it's someone that has a title path, so I guess the Clippers or the Mavs would be good fits? I don't think he loved the Kyrie circus either, but maybe Brooklyn is in the mix. Speaking of Kyrie & Brooklyn I get why BK is doing it and it could just be a smokescreen that changes 3 more times before FA even officially opens, but I can't believe they actually think a Kyrie/D'Angelo Russell backcourt would work.

Rozier will be interesting. He definitely wanted to be a starter somewhere last season, but he knew Kyrie was better than him, and even when he's on he's not particularly efficient so I think he's better off as a 3rd guard. He's also still an RFA and I just don't see why any team is going to offer him $20m/y. I don't even know if they'll offer him 4/$50, so I could definitely see him coming back on a Marcus Smart like deal. (The other non-Kyrie issue was that Gordon Hayward was given too much PT early, but end of season Hayward was also at least deserving of rotation minutes & we'll have more minutes for everybody at this rate! )

[Arles]

New Jersey Nets acquire forward Gerald Wallace from Portland Trail Blazers

The New Jersey Nets acquired forward Gerald Wallace from the Portland Trail Blazers in a deadline deal on Thursday in exchange for center Mehmet Okur, small forward Shawne Williams and New Jersey's protected 2012 first-round pick, the Nets announced. The pick is top-3 protected, according to a league source.

GM Billy King said it was difficult to give up the pick, but "in meeting with our scouts, we felt the player that we may draft beyond the protection would be somebody that would probably take a couple years (to develop), and at this point, we're trying to speed the process up a bit and start winning (more)."

A team source told ESPN.com's Chad Ford the Nets were willing to part with their top-3 protected pick because there are only three players in the upcoming draft the Nets covet -- Kentucky's Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, and Kansas' Thomas Robinson.

That pick went on to be #6 and turned into Damian Lillard. I'm always dubious of GMs saying it is an X person draft in June. Compare 10-15 to 1-5 in the 2013 draft:

10-15 -> CJ McCollum, Michael Carter-Williams, Steven Adams, Kelly Olynyk, Shabazz Muhammad and Giannis
vs
1 -5 -> Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Cody Zeller and Alex Len

People thought there was a massive dropoff after Porter in that draft.

[Logan]

It's been known forever that numerous teams would have the equivalent of hundreds of millions in cap space this offseason and there wouldn't be nearly enough max players to go around. Not sure "blatant tampering" would be needed for Horford to know he could get a massive deal by opting out.

Hell, Bill Simmons has been saying as much about Horford for months.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Arles

That pick went on to be #6 and turned into Damian Lillard. I'm always dubious of GMs saying it is an X person draft in June. Compare 10-15 to 1-5 in the 2013 draft:

10-15 -> CJ McCollum, Michael Carter-Williams, Steven Adams, Kelly Olynyk, Shabazz Muhammad and Giannis
vs
1 -5 -> Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter, Cody Zeller and Alex Len

People thought there was a massive dropoff after Porter in that draft.

I agree in general - IMO the draft is a complete crapshoot after the top couple of picks, and some years there isn't even a consensus "top X". 2013 for example I thought Oladipo was a fairly clearcut #1 pick, but Bennett was a big surprise to most people - the Cavs really reached. Zeller was also considered a reach - I don't remember the consensus on Len.

I do feel that with the crapshoot it's becoming I'd rather my team had multiple picks in the late-teens than a single pick in the 5-12 range.

I wish I could find the link or remember who linked it, but I was reading an article linked from Twitter a few days ago about the number of wins attributed to players based on their draft position, and it was a really interesting read that basically jived with the fact that we're getting worse at scouting despite all the extra analytics, and it mostly comes down to how much younger guys are when they are getting drafted, as well as perhaps some less obvious factors like the prevalence of mock drafts creating subconscious biases, etc.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

It's been known forever that numerous teams would have the equivalent of hundreds of millions in cap space this offseason and there wouldn't be nearly enough max players to go around. Not sure "blatant tampering" would be needed for Horford to know he could get a massive deal by opting out.

Hell, Bill Simmons has been saying as much about Horford for months.

2 days ago he was negotiating a new 3 year deal with the Celtics, yesterday he cut off negotiations and reporting says he has a 4/$100m+ deal out there. I don't disagree it's been obvious he could get money elsewhere, and maybe the reporting is wrong, but it sure seems like something changed yesterday.

[Logan]

Seems like a lot has changed with Boston over the last few days that may make someone hesitant to commit for several years when other options are available.

[Suicane75]

I know nothing about the current nba, did the jazz give up alot for conley? Are the grizz rebuilding?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I know nothing about the current nba, did the jazz give up alot for conley? Are the grizz rebuilding?

Eh. Korver is probably flipped. Crowder is decent. Allen barely played. It's a good trade for both teams really.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I know nothing about the current nba, did the jazz give up alot for conley? Are the grizz rebuilding?

Yes, the Grizzlies are rebuilding around Jaren Jackson Jr & presumably Ja Morant as their PG of the future.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Atlanta Hawks tweet: We have acquired a 2024 second-round pick & cash considerations from the Golden State Warriors in exchange for the 41st pick in the 2019 NBA Draft.

So Atl does what they hoped & push a pick down the road, GS get a way to fill a roster space on the cheap

[Arles]

The more I look at this draft pool, I really hope the Suns take DeAndre Hunter over Coby White if both are available. White seems like a "need" pick whereas Hunter is the better talent.

[BishopMVP]

Hawks hoping 2024 is the double draft? While this seems like a weaker draft from like 2-10 this does seem like a deep draft to me so I could see GS getting a decent player. You have a handful of productive college players I think can transition right into an NBA rotation in the Tennessee duo, Carsen Edwards, Windler, Paschall, Cody Martin, some high upside guys you might need to wait a year on in Chuma Okeke, Dort, Jalen McDaniels, Horton-Tucker, Jontay Porter, and some enticing complete unknowns in Porter/Bol Bol if they drop, the two Euro shooters Samanic & Sirvydis, and guys who took a year off in Darius Bazley & Jalen Lecque.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

The more I look at this draft pool, I really hope the Suns take DeAndre Hunter over Coby White if both are available. White seems like a "need" pick whereas Hunter is the better talent.

White has a ton of helium right now and I can't figure out why. That low shooting release, his struggles in the midrange game & his lack of length that limits his defensive upside would scare me. He did show a willingness to take stepback 3's, but I don't think he'll be a good enough shooter you want him taking a lot of those. Just can't figure out why some people are starting to say he's the best PG prospect over Ja/Garland.

On the other hand, while I agree on Hunter>White, I don't see how the Suns can come out of this without a PG again. Not sure if there's a good match with NO for a trade up to #4 & Garland (and for NO if the rumored 8 & 10 for 4 from ATL is real I would jump on that in a heartbeat!), or you just hope one of the Hunter/Reddish/Doumbouya trio is a surprise pick at 4.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

White has a ton of helium right now and I can't figure out why. That low shooting release, his struggles in the midrange game & his lack of length that limits his defensive upside would scare me. He did show a willingness to take stepback 3's, but I don't think he'll be a good enough shooter you want him taking a lot of those. Just can't figure out why some people are starting to say he's the best PG prospect over Ja/Garland.

On the other hand, while I agree on Hunter>White, I don't see how the Suns can come out of this without a PG again. Not sure if there's a good match with NO for a trade up to #4 & Garland (and for NO if the rumored 8 & 10 for 4 from ATL is real I would jump on that in a heartbeat!), or you just hope one of the Hunter/Reddish/Doumbouya trio is a surprise pick at 4.

To be fair, they may be of a BPA mindset and will look to improve the PG position in free agency. There was also talk they might go full in on Booker to PG.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

To be fair, they may be of a BPA mindset and will look to improve the PG position in free agency. There was also talk they might go full in on Booker to PG.

They said that last year, then ended up with Elie Okobo & Isaiah Canaan as their opening night PG duo and a fired GM. I actually thought #6 for Lonzo Ball would've been great for them because you can pair a good defending non-shooter next to Booker, but they just punted instead last year & entered the season with an obvious hole. Patrick Beverly is the one FA PG that would seem like a great fit from an on-court perspective, but I also think he's so uber competitive he wouldn't want to go to a rebuilding team (or would be traded 2 months in like Ariza/Tyson Chandler.)

[Arles]

Last year they had Tweedledum at GM in Ryan McDonough. It sounds like they are already preparing to go after one of Beverly, Rubio and Collison regardless of the draft. I'm not sure White would be a better option on day one than Okobo anyway - so even if they draft him they would still need a vet. I would rather go Hunter, sign a vet PG and keep okobo as their dev PG. Unless you think White is the BPA, signing him doesn't solve the PG issue for 19-20.

[Arles]

Suns just sent TJ Warren (and his $35 mil contract) and pick #32 to Indiana for cap space. Frees up some money to sign a PG. Warren's contract was another gift from McDonough

[BishopMVP]

I like TJ Warren at that contract number. The roster fit didn't make sense in Phoenix with all the wings, but a wing who can shoot that well is worth $11m/y imo.

[miami_fan]

Source- Woj

Hawks get :2019 #4, #57, and a future 2nd round pick

Pelicans get: 2019 #8,17 and 35 and Cleveland's 1st round pick in 2020

[Arles]

Another Woj:

Minnesota has traded No. 11 and Dario Saric to Phoenix for the No. 6 pick in the draft, league source tells ESPN.

[Arles]

I don't mind that. Saric is cheap and under their control for two more years (if they let him play out his QO) or one year (if they sign him as a RFA). If they end up with Brandon Clarke or Jaxson Hayes, I like this move. I wasn't a White guy, so, IMO:
Saric + Clarke/Hayes >> Coby White

With Hunter (Atl) and Garland (Cle or trade) off the board, trading down to get a solid player was a good move. They needed a legit PF who can take pressure off Ayton and Booker.