Werewolf XIX: Return to the Forest - Night(4)

[Barkeep49]

Ok I finally bothered to do a search of how to do this. I hope this helps in future days. I have one for today as well but I will post that during the next night cycle when it's complete.

Originally Posted by Day 2

Originally Posted by Day 3

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

There is no telling if the seer viewed RA or Dubb. He only used his ability twice. He could have looked at Ardent and Pennywise, etc.

exactly

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

exactly

:sigh again: The wolves win. They have 4 (or 3 and a sorceror/bribed villager/etc..) and lynching me clinches their win.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

:sigh again: The wolves win. They have 4 (or 3 and a sorceror/bribed villager/etc..) and lynching me clinches their win.

So they started with FIVE people? That seems absurd. Don't forget there has been a kill every night so there isn't a cursed villager that has been activated if it follows typical WW rules.

[TazFTW]

Seriously screw the deadline. Lynch me and end this game now.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Why are you trying to not get involved? We are pretty much going to lynch Taz. If you think that is bad, lets hear it.

I am inclined to believe Dubb and go with the Taz lynch. If Taz is not a wolf, then the path is clearer. If Taz is a wolf, that would be one wolf down and RA in the clear.

i said i wouldnt comment past my vote for barkeep(which im keeping), but ill toss a few random thoughts out there as food for thought.

*Saldana targeted dubb and was pushing hard to get him killed, making dubb look clear to me.

*It could be that both taz and raiders are innocent and dubb is a wolf...he figures you kill raiders(who had a bazillion votes at the time) you then kill taz thinking dubb was telling the truth. If you kill taz and see hes a villager, he has 50-50 odds we kill raiders first.

*the most important point of all, though i havent seen taz play to it and if he does now ill be doubtful, but the phrase was villager checking in...it seems within reason that if he was the bodyguard/doctor(a possibility, since we havent lynched him and we dont know the roles of night kills) RPI might say it was false...i doubt this is the case, just food for though.

*gramat - seer had 3 views, as there was a night 0...dont forget that...but dacman is new so i doubt he knew who to scan as the best players...and he left absolutely no clues which tells me he hit diddly squat.

*I STILL WANT TO BLOODY KNOW ABOUT THIS POSSE...RAIDERS IS IN IT, AS IS BARKEEP AND I THOUGHT SUN...THEY SAID THERE IS A THIRD...IF ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THIS POSSE IS A KEY PLAYER IN THIS VOTE WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS. OTHERWISE IM STARTING TO WONDER IF THE POSSE ISNT A FAKE ROLE REVEAL.

*The wolves has targeted the quiter players, the ones with no real ties to controversy. Sun accusing ardent before switching two more times to other people is odd. Wolves want to kill people that are going to put heat on other villagers. You dont kill the guy nobody cares about, you kill the guy accusing another villager. So if their not killing people like me(who has had 0 votes on himself this game while accusing a certain few) there must be a reason. That leads me to believe im barking up the right tree, as killing me would draw attention to whoever i attacked. Killing penny leaves us all clueless. The first would be more beneficial to the wolves if i wasnt accusing any wolves. Thats why im sticking to my guns.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

*the most important point of all, though i havent seen taz play to it and if he does now ill be doubtful, but the phrase was villager checking in...it seems within reason that if he was the bodyguard/doctor(a possibility, since we havent lynched him and we dont know the roles of night kills) RPI might say it was false...i doubt this is the case, just food for though.

I'm just a plain villager. Not special powers what so ever.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Seriously screw the deadline. Lynch me and end this game now.

UNVOTE RAIDERS ARMY
VOTE TAZFTW

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

UNVOTE RAIDERS ARMY
VOTE TAZFTW

pulling a mcsweeny i see

actually though, when i pulled this move i was a villager

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

pulling a mcsweeny i see

actually though, when i pulled this move i was a villager

I wonder....

[Blade6119]

me too...i was willing to kill myself today an im good...im not near as sold on taz as i am on barkeep....i still dont buy this role reveal by dubb...i could have bought lovers role or something else, but its been a few games since empath was a role and since RPI likes it simple i dont really buy this role reveal...Want to hear a crazy thought? Barkeep and Dubb or Barkeep, Dubb, and Raiders...if taz is good...if bad, then im wrong again

[Barkeep49]

Without revealing too much about the posse, in case we need to verify claims of being a posse member later on, individual posse members have the ability to kill someone at night. There are a rather lengthy set of restrictions which will not be mentioned here, but that is the short summary of what the posse is Blade. I'm glad you're posting since even though you're wrong with me, I think you've had other good insights this game.

[Barkeep49]

Also I think the "setup kill" is the most over rated thing in Werewolf. I think it's far more likely that the remaining wolves haven't aroused any real suspicion, as Taz had not, and thus wanted as many different people to argue as possible. Generally as a wolf I wanted the quieter players around. With so many different "loud" people saying so many different things we could have been missing the boat completely on the wolves. Somewhat selfishly I'm glad for this strategy, but I really think if Dubb pans out that after saldana they've been working hard to stay under the radar.

[WVUFAN]

My reason for voting for Taz is that Dubb doesn't really have a reason for lying -- if he is, he's next on the lynch post, which makes little sense if he's a wolf. Since Taz says he has no secret roles, there can't be some sort of out, so either Dubb is telling the truth, and Taz is a wolf, or he's not, he's solely responsible for the death of an innocent, and he'll be next on the block, for certain.

So I ask again -- WHY would Dubb lie?

VOTE TazFTW

[TazFTW]

LYNCH ME ALREADY!

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

LYNCH ME ALREADY!

...

Something ... something's not kosher here. I've reviewed all of Taz's posts, and I've not seen anything that even remotely made me think he was a wolf until Dubb came out with this -- why did Dubb wait until NOW to use his ability?

There's something going on here. This doesn't feel right. I believe Taz.

UNVOTE TazFTW
VOTE DUBB

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

My reason for voting for Taz is that Dubb doesn't really have a reason for lying -- if he is, he's next on the lynch post, which makes little sense if he's a wolf. Since Taz says he has no secret roles, there can't be some sort of out, so either Dubb is telling the truth, and Taz is a wolf, or he's not, he's solely responsible for the death of an innocent, and he'll be next on the block, for certain.

So I ask again -- WHY would Dubb lie?

VOTE TazFTW

Heres one gigantic reason...Raiders is a wolf...if thats the case, and then you can assume dubb is, it makes all the sense in the world. Raiders was down like 7-1 in votes? This lie(if it is) single handidly saved him today. Its a numbers game, and if raiders is a wolf they get two villagers today instead of losing a wolf. Makes all the sense in the world if thats the case.

If that is the case though, bad thoughts arise...they are either closer to the win then we think(if we lost 2 villagers today, it would take us two days to kill dubb and raider so we lose two more villagers....thats at least 4 of the 10 left, and all they need is 1-1 ratio). That also would mean we still have 3 wolves. 4 out of 16 or whatever we started with seems high, but it is possible.

The last thought i have is i wonder about a cunning wolf....could make things very interesting if either taz or dubb are one.

[Schmidty]

I am totally not confident in my vote for Taz, but the evidence points toward Dubb not lying.

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE BARKEEP
VOTE DUBB

Ive never seen a person use this self-vote and beg to die unless they were a villager....NEVER...if a fairly new guy like taz is doing it, im going to trust it. my barkeep vote is a waist of time today, might as well go where my gut is leading me today

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE BARKEEP
VOTE DUBB
Dola to bold vote

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Heres one gigantic reason...Raiders is a wolf...if thats the case, and then you can assume dubb is, it makes all the sense in the world. Raiders was down like 7-1 in votes? This lie(if it is) single handidly saved him today. Its a numbers game, and if raiders is a wolf they get two villagers today instead of losing a wolf. Makes all the sense in the world if thats the case.

If that is the case though, bad thoughts arise...they are either closer to the win then we think(if we lost 2 villagers today, it would take us two days to kill dubb and raider so we lose two more villagers....thats at least 4 of the 10 left, and all they need is 1-1 ratio). That also would mean we still have 3 wolves. 4 out of 16 or whatever we started with seems high, but it is possible.

The last thought i have is i wonder about a cunning wolf....could make things very interesting if either taz or dubb are one.

What's a cunning wolf? Is this an adjective for a good player, or a special ability?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

What's a cunning wolf? Is this an adjective for a good player, or a special ability?

A special ability in which when a wolf is lynched he is revealed as a villager instead of a wolf...there has also been a brutal wolf who kills someone when he is lynched, as well as many other secret roles. But if we had secret roles like witness and the posse, its hard for me to imagine in someway they didnt recieve extra help, be it a 4th wolf or secret roles of their own.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

if a fairly new guy like taz is doing it

I'm not really new. I played in the first few WW games when Peregrine started the fad. I stopped playing when there were 2 or 3 games running at the same time and just recnetly came back with that nobles/assassins game.

Actually those first few games are why I like to stay quiet now. I would get lynched early every time I started discussion about who could be the wolves. I learned being quiet kept me in the game longer. Now it seems like it could be my downfall.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

I'm not really new. I played in the first few WW games when Peregrine started the fad. I stopped playing when there were 2 or 3 games running at the same time and just recnetly came back with that nobles/assassins game.

Actually those first few games are why I like to stay quiet now. I would get lynched early every time I started discussion about who could be the wolves. I learned being quiet kept me in the game longer. Now it seems like it could be my downfall.

If thats the case i aplogize, as i wasnt around for those. As for being loud, it usually gets me killed but being loud enough has tought me a lot. Wolves dont just mess up and give up clues. Wolves must be provoked into an argument, or provoked into emotions that might cause a misstep. I learn 10 times more by accusing people then by sitting idly by...besides, quiet people die on day one

[Barkeep49]

For those keeping track at home:

Current vote count:

Taz 6
Raiders 2
Dubb 2

[Blade6119]

taz is dead, no question....we might as well end the day now...its either you believe dubb or taz....no certain facts are out there, and people have picked there sides.....

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Without revealing too much about the posse, in case we need to verify claims of being a posse member later on, individual posse members have the ability to kill someone at night. There are a rather lengthy set of restrictions which will not be mentioned here, but that is the short summary of what the posse is Blade. I'm glad you're posting since even though you're wrong with me, I think you've had other good insights this game.

So, you are saying that an individual in the posse can on their own cause a kill? Does that mean two kills can occur in one night? Also, from what you said earlier, a wolf could also be a posse member?

Does the bold in your grid posts mean you suspect those people of being wolves?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

So, you are saying that an individual in the posse can on their own cause a kill? Does that mean two kills can occur in one night? Also, from what you said earlier, a wolf could also be a posse member?

Yes to all of these questions.

Does the bold in your grid posts mean you suspect those people of being wolves?

No. It means they changed their vote. It's my way of telling at a glance which votes I should look at when tallying votes.

[dubb93]

I know that Dacman voted for me twice, but he did so on day 1 before he could use his ability, then again on day 2, but was more than willing to remove his vote from me, and did, to break the Saldana/RA tie. If he had hit a wolf, he would leave his vote on me as a hint for when he died. On night 2 is when I'm guessing he viewed me, since he DID NOT COME OUT AND VOTE ME AGAIN! He I was a wolf and he viewed and saw me, he would not have removed his vote from me, and would have voted me again on day 3. I believe that further clears me.

As for no bad guy ever using the voting for yourself trick, I've seen it done many times. Infact I remember it used to be refered to as the "wolf trick." I myself busted it out in the spawn game and got some people to unvote me. Don't believe Taz, he is a wolf.

[dubb93]

As for the "posse", no freakin clue what it is, and I sure as hell know I'm not in it with Barkeep and RA.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I know that Dacman voted for me twice, but he did so on day 1 before he could use his ability, then again on day 2, but was more than willing to remove his vote from me, and did, to break the Saldana/RA tie. If he had hit a wolf, he would leave his vote on me as a hint for when he died. On night 2 is when I'm guessing he viewed me, since he DID NOT COME OUT AND VOTE ME AGAIN! He I was a wolf and he viewed and saw me, he would not have removed his vote from me, and would have voted me again on day 3. I believe that further clears me.

As for no bad guy ever using the voting for yourself trick, I've seen it done many times. Infact I remember it used to be refered to as the "wolf trick." I myself busted it out in the spawn game and got some people to unvote me. Don't believe Taz, he is a wolf.

Typo, He=If

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

...

Something ... something's not kosher here. I've reviewed all of Taz's posts, and I've not seen anything that even remotely made me think he was a wolf until Dubb came out with this -- why did Dubb wait until NOW to use his ability?

There's something going on here. This doesn't feel right. I believe Taz.

UNVOTE TazFTW
VOTE DUBB

There probably was not much to id Taz as a wolf, because there is not much by way of posts from Taz to look at, period. Also, waiting to use an ability like that is not such a bad idea. It lets you try and get a feel for who's posts make sense for review. Otherwise, its just a blind stab. With an ability like that, you would really want to nail a wolf.

Here is a question for all, If you don't want to try Dubb's reveal by lynching Taz, why would you lynch Dubb over Raiders Army (no offense RA)? If Dubb is not telling the truth, then he was trying to save RA and it would make sense for non believers to nail RA.

Somebody mentioned a bribed Villager, what is that?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I know that Dacman voted for me twice, but he did so on day 1 before he could use his ability, then again on day 2, but was more than willing to remove his vote from me, and did, to break the Saldana/RA tie. If he had hit a wolf, he would leave his vote on me as a hint for when he died. On night 2 is when I'm guessing he viewed me, since he DID NOT COME OUT AND VOTE ME AGAIN! He I was a wolf and he viewed and saw me, he would not have removed his vote from me, and would have voted me again on day 3. I believe that further clears me.

As for no bad guy ever using the voting for yourself trick, I've seen it done many times. Infact I remember it used to be refered to as the "wolf trick." I myself busted it out in the spawn game and got some people to unvote me. Don't believe Taz, he is a wolf.

Apparently he could have used the seer view on night zero?? I could see him removing his vote from you as Saldana was outed, rather than leave it on you to cause suspicion from the wolves (just looking at the other possibility).

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Apparently he could have used the seer view on night zero??

In past games, a seer could use his ability night 0. Whether the seer could use it for this game was up to RPI.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Apparently he could have used the seer view on night zero?? I could see him removing his vote from you as Saldana was outed, rather than leave it on you to cause suspicion from the wolves (just looking at the other possibility).

Considering his vote went on Saldana b/f you announced you were the witness I don't buy this argument. Still, why doesn't he come back and vote me on day 3 if he viewed me and I was a wolf?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

:sigh again: The wolves win. They have 4 (or 3 and a sorceror/bribed villager/etc..) and lynching me clinches their win.

You don't make any sense. What you're doing is the "last gasp" of the wolves.

From what I can gather, Blade is another wolf, possibly the last.

[Raiders Army]

I also see by Barkeep's post #551 that Taz did not explain any of his votes for Day 2 or 3. Obviously an "under the radar" type play. That makes sense in that one wolf is probably doing the silent thing and another is doing a vocal thing. Nice strategy.

[Barkeep49]

I realized I might not be home for nearly the entire Night cycle and rather than miss it and then die before posting here's what I have for the current day.

Originally Posted by Day 4

[Grammaticus]

I think Taz is the most likely candidate to be a wolf, therefore we should lynch him. The other benefit to this course, if he is not a wolf, we have tested Dubb’s claim of using the empathy ability. We either get a wolf or we get good knowledge regarding RA and Dubb.

Does anyone know what a “bribed villager” is and how that works? Someone brought that up earlier. Is it possible that Dubb could be forced to make the empath statement against his will?

Either way, I think you go with Taz. If he is a wolf, bingo and RA is clear. If not, then RA was the one being protected and you go for him first over Dubb, the next cycle.

[RPI-Fan]

Ok, I don't particularly have time to go through the vote totals at the moment, but it's pretty clear that TazTFW acquired the most votes -- I can always come back to this later if we need an official record.

The day seemed positive. Most people were comfortable the town would soon be eradicated of the wolves, with TazTFW the next to go. But as you hang TazTFW by the ropes, he never changes form. You're horrified to realize that TazTFW was a villager!

Playerlist

1) st.cronin: Lynched, Day(1), Regular Villager
2) Raiders Army
3) dacman: Lynched, Day(3), Seer
4) pennywisesb: Killed, Night(4)
5) Schmidty
6) Blade6119
7) McSweeny
8) ardent enthusiast
9) SnDvls: Killed, Night(2)
10) Grammaticus
11) TazTFW: Lynched, Day(4), Regular Villager
12) saldana: Lynched, Day(2), Werewolf
13) Barkeep49
14) kingfc22: Killed, Night(1)
15) WVUFAN
16) dubb93

It is now Night(4). Night Actions are due by 10:00pm EST on Friday, December 22nd.

[Grammaticus]

That’s jacked up. So, Dubb was fooling us with his empath crap.

[Poli]

I'm glad to say I never fell for it. My hit list:

1. Raiders Army
2. Dubb

[Raiders Army]

Uhhhh....what the hell happened? I fell for it since I know I'm a villager. I just don't understand how it could be endgame that they would do that. Unless dubb made a mistake?

[Schmidty]

Game over. I knew we shouldn't have trusted dubb. Dramatics like that are usually a ploy. Now we're fucked.

By the way, I'll be in transit to California today and part of tomorrow. I won't be around a computer until Sunday or Monday. Are we taking a break for Christmas at least?

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Uhhhh....what the hell happened? I fell for it since I know I'm a villager. I just don't understand how it could be endgame that they would do that. Unless dubb made a mistake?

Nice try.

[Poli]

I just can't believe people bought this fake role reveal and didn't buy into mine. Dang it. Garhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

I wish I didn't have to work last night. Maybe I could have talked you guys out of this.

[Raiders Army]

Don't lynch me before dubb. This is my thought process:

If you lynch me and see that I'm a villager that will put doubt in your mind about dubb. If you lynch him first and me second then at least he'll be gone. I realize by saying this, you may think I'm trying to attempt a "strategy". It is not. Yesterday I would've fallen on my sword to prove that dubb was right.

Argh. I really thought he was on the level.

[Blade6119]

Another day, another time the team doesnt bloody listen to me...first about dacman being good and now dubb being bad....god this is aggravating...

Kill Dubb first, then RA...we know dubb is a wolf now, but we dont know for sure if RA is or if he was just a villager being used since he looked like he was going to die to make sure we killed taz tomorrow. KILL DUBB TOMORROW...god im pissed off again

[Poli]

I'm just waiting for the voting window to open.

[RPI-Fan]

How about this for a proposed schedule:

Friday 23rd, Night(4) ends 10pm
Saturday, 24th, Day(5) ends 10pm
Sunday 25th OFF
Monday 26th OFF
Tuesday 27th Night(5) ends 10am
Wednesday 28th Day(6) ends 10pm (NOTE: No longer on the 12/24 schedule)
Thursday 29th Night(6) ends 10am
Thursday 29th Day(7) ends 10pm
Friday 30th Night(7) ends 1am (in other words, 3 hours after the Day(7) deadline)
Friday 30th Day(8) ends 12pm
Friday 30th Night(8) ends 3pm

I can't imagine us going any deeper than that (doubt it's hardly mathematically possible, at least), and the reason I played around with the deadlines is because I'm moving on the 30th, and won't have internet access for a few days.

Thoughts?

~rpi-fan