FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[panerd]

And so it will begin...

Ex-St. Louis police officer Jason Stockley found not guilty of murder | Law and order | stltoday.com

[tarcone]

I'm shocked.

I'm also staying out of St. Louis.

It's going to burn I'm afraid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

The judge has leeway to convict him of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. This guy is going down. Maybe not murder 1. But he will go down.

Maybe this isn't your day to buy lottery tickets.

edit to add: or if you do, just go with Quik-Pik

[panerd]

Logic 101:

Both state and federal (2011 so the Obama administration) decide not enough evidence to charge with anything let alone murder.

So locals decide to charge anyways with the highest offense. Can they be held liable by local businesses for starting a riot?

[tarcone]

I'm watching the local fox station on the computer. Someone is burning a cardinals hoodie. Not sure why.

I cant believe the judge found him not guilty. Maybe he was showing he can't be intimidated. Lots of people threatened a lot of stuff if acquitted.

No lottery for me.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I'm watching the local fox station on the computer. Someone is burning a cardinals hoodie.

I agree with this person.

[panerd]

Closings | KSDK.com

No it's not winter with snow just a normal day in good old St. Louis!

[tarcone]

Police are gearing up.

[tarcone]

1st confrontation. Bike police blocking protestors from crossing a bridge.
This is fascinating to watch.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

1st confrontation. Bike police blocking protestors from crossing a bridge.
This is fascinating to watch.

Never a good air strike available when you need one

[NobodyHere]

I wonder if many of the protesters know that the whole "hands up don't shoot" thing was a lie.

[tarcone]

Protestors are wandering the streets. The police are herding them.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I'm shocked.

I'm also staying out of St. Louis.

It's going to burn I'm afraid.

I'm staying far away from STL today.

[Easy Mac]

From the Article:

Anthony Shahid (center) wears a puppet of Jason Stockley...

That's not a puppet. Its a tiny sack with a picture on it.

[tarcone]

I just talked to a guy who was sent home from working downtown. Said there is already rock and bottle throwing.
The mayor said she is "appalled" by the decision.
Way to help keep the calm. She is useless.

Luckily the governor is stepping in.

Natiopnal guard and police from other cities are going into the city.

[RainMaker]

I wish people would find better victims to protest over. The guy who was killed was a bad person who made the community more dangerous while poisoning it's residents.

[miked]

Glad I'm not on campus tonight for this madness!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miked

Glad I'm not on campus tonight for this madness!

I don't understand what the protest is over. This person clearly wanted to commit suicide by cop.

[miked]

This person was very clearly mentally disturbed and wanted suicide by cop. The fact that a large university has a police department that does not own tasers or pepper spray is absurd. Also, the person was carrying a closed leatherman and not a knife, so I'm not really sure what the threat was other than poorly trained people carrying guns and badges.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't understand what the protest is over. This person clearly wanted to commit suicide by cop.

What really happened or what is now being spun after the fact? The cops clearly knew this white guy who called the cops on himself and pulled a knife on them was LGBTQ. Why else would they shoot an armed person that wasn't black?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't understand what the protest is over. This person clearly wanted to commit suicide by cop.

The protest stemmed from the fact there's no shortage of worthless, clueless fuckwits in Atlanta.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't understand what the protest is over. This person clearly wanted to commit suicide by cop.

Well there was a difference between the vigil and the violent protest. Apparently 50 people wanted to break shit after the vigil was over.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miked

This person was very clearly mentally disturbed and wanted suicide by cop. The fact that a large university has a police department that does not own tasers or pepper spray is absurd. Also, the person was carrying a closed leatherman and not a knife, so I'm not really sure what the threat was other than poorly trained people carrying guns and badges.

From what I read this person called 911 on themselves and said they had a gun. The video supposedly has officers pleading with this person to drop a knife numerous times as the person shouts "Just shoot me". They are eventually shot after the person continues taking steps toward the officers. I don't really know what officers are supposed to do in this situation on a major college campus.

Also the person who was shot left 3 suicide notes. They wanted to die.

Georgia Tech shooting: 3 suicide notes found in student's room

I'm sorry this happened but this is an issue of mental illness, not bad cops.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

From what I read this person called 911 on themselves and said they had a gun. The video supposedly has officers pleading with this person to drop a knife numerous times as the person shouts "Just shoot me". They are eventually shot after the person continues taking steps toward the officers. I don't really know what officers are supposed to do in this situation on a major college campus.

Also the person who was shot left 3 suicide notes. They wanted to die.

Georgia Tech shooting: 3 suicide notes found in student's room

I'm sorry this happened but this is an issue of mental illness, not bad cops.

None of this answers the question of why they don't have tasers.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

None of this answers the question of why they don't have tasers.

Not saying this applies here, but because many departments don't carry Tasers because of liability issues related to Taser deaths.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

None of this answers the question of why they don't have tasers.

I don't know. But in a life and death situation I'd rather have a gun over a taser. Especially if I've been told this person has a gun on them as well.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Not saying this applies here, but because many departments don't carry Tasers because of liability issues related to Taser deaths.

And there's definitely a danger of taser overuse on a place like a college campus. Tasers can embolden some officers in non-lethal force situation. You can find a million articles about how terrible tasers are and how officers shouldn't be allowed to carry them, and how tasers are just another step along the process of the militarization of police. Then when someone is shot they're the suddenly the greatest thing in history again and all officers should have them.

And tasers and guns really shouldn't be an either/or thing. They have different functions. There aren't many scenarios where an officer, acting consistently with training, would use a taser or pepper spray if only they could, but had to use a gun instead. If an office is using a gun, it should be because lethal force is appropriate in that circumstance.

[Ben E Lou]

Former SC officer Michael Slager to be sentenced in shooting death of Walter Scott | myfox8.com

In a reversal from his previous account of events, Slager admitted in court Tuesday that he did not shoot the unarmed man in self-defense. He admitted to knowing that his use of force was unreasonable.

[RainMaker]

This is real bad. NSFW

Police Body Cam Vid Shows 'Execution' of Daniel Shaver, Officer Found Not Guilty | TMZ.com

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is real bad. NSFW

Police Body Cam Vid Shows 'Execution' of Daniel Shaver, Officer Found Not Guilty | TMZ.com

Eh, if all I had to go on was that video, I don't see any way I could say it was anything but a justified shooting. I mean, it looked *exactly* like he was reaching for a weapon, especially given that he'd already put his hands behind his back when told to put them up. Even watching it knowing he was unarmed, I'm at a complete loss to figure out what on earth he was doing with his hand at the time he got shot. Scratching his butt? Was it suicide by cop? Did he lie to the cop earlier, and that move was actually just drunken stupidity?

I don't mean to sound insensitive, and I get that having a gun pointed at you is incredibly nerve-wracking and could cause someone to incorrectly follow directions, but trying to see it from the cop's perspective, I perceive a massive difference between, say, Slager shooting at a guy who is clearly running away, and this cop shooting at a guy who is coming toward him and puts his right hand behind his back.

[Chief Rum]

I disagree. I saw little more than a terribly frightened young man who was obviously completely unnerved by the situation. I felt the cop was far more abusive than he needed to be, right from the start. That cop came prepared to kill someone and he got it.

That fucker should rot in hell for shooting that guy.

[cuervo72]

He's on the ground at one point with his hands away from his body...why did he not close on him and cuff him then? Why make him get down, then get back up?

[NobodyHere]

I thought NFL players kneeling fixed all this?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I disagree. I saw little more than a terribly frightened young man who was obviously completely unnerved by the situation. I felt the cop was far more abusive than he needed to be, right from the start. That cop came prepared to kill someone and he got it.

That fucker should rot in hell for shooting that guy.

I agree that he appeared terribly frightened.

I think the cop could have been more calm to help defuse the situation.

I could be persuaded that in terms of "right vs. wrong," the cop bears some responsibility.

I have no idea about cuerv's comment with regard to police procedures and protocols in these situations, but if anything in

But if I'm on the jury and thinking about *legal* consequences, the main thing I'm looking at is "At the moment of truth, was it reasonable to think that the guy was reaching for a weapon?"

I can't see any way that the answer to that question is anything other than "yes."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I disagree. I saw little more than a terribly frightened young man who was obviously completely unnerved by the situation. I felt the cop was far more abusive than he needed to be, right from the start. That cop came prepared to kill someone and he got it.

That fucker should rot in hell for shooting that guy.

This is what I saw. That cop came to kill and he was going to wait for that guy to mess up so he could do it.

[RainMaker]

Jury wasn't allowed to see how he modded the gun.

[EagleFan]

I think that cop should rot in hell for that. Nothing justifies that shooting.

[CU Tiger]

The cop told him from the beginning I am going to shoot you. He planned it and eventually did it.

The suspect was visibly crying and compliant. Those arent the actions of a threat. The cop should have de-escalated by lowering his voice. Instead he increased the tension and stress and ultimately killed the kid.

I hope that cop rots in hell after suffering a grotesque death in front of his loved ones.

[Arles]

That was one of the worst policing acts I have ever seen. The fact that he's not in prison is just awful. What's interesting is the guy who talked in the video wasn't the one who shot them (from what I can see). He's some other cop named Charles Langley. Langley immediately retired from the police and moved to the Philippines - interesting move for someone who didn't think they did anything wrong.

[EagleFan]

What even led to that scenario?

[Edward64]

I think the cop was justified in the initial shooting. However, hard for me to believe he needed 5 bullets.

Its like shoot once or twice in center mass, see you hit the guy, and then pause.

I think the cop over did it.

[NobodyHere]

Cops don't shoot to wound

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

What even led to that scenario?

He had a pellet rifle used for pest control in his room and police received a call of a man pointing a rifle out of the window.

This is tough call for me, he reached behind his back once, went to the waistband a second time when he was shot. It is hard to say wait until you see a weapon, when pausing a second could allow an armed suspect to get off a shot. In terms of 5 rounds, they were all fired in a single burst and the reaction to him falling would not have registered after 1 or 2.

I don't really like the way the officer talking approached the situation, and I know you can't coddle suspected criminals, but threatening to shoot them several times is not going to exactly produce a rational thinking with an innocent person.

Mesa PD has been in the news here a few times for the way they handle things, in terms of begin heavy handed, so there is definitely a culture issue within the department. Especially when an officer has "You're Fucked" printed on his sidearm. That in itself, if known should have been cause for discipline, or in the least watching this officer very closely.

I am not going to broadly defend police, there are some that should never be given a badge. But, I train BJJ with several (all really good guys) and have done a ride along in a shitty area here and the bullshit they put up with is insane. People coming out and verbally attacking them trying to goad a reaction while they film. Others distracting them while someone hides a gun, or drugs or allows someone to run. They are in situations constantly that try the nerves and if you have not experienced it as an officer, or been out on a ride along in a bad area, you can't fathom the stress level that builds. To anyone really curious, I would recommend going on a ride along in a bad area.

The main takeaway here, is definitely an overzealous cop, but legally, the video left the jury no choice. Police have a broad range when determining a threat that requires use of deadly force and reaching for a waist back quickly falls into that area. By law they pretty much had to acquit him. That's what TMZ doesn't understand when they plaster stupid shit like 'execution' in the title of their story. It is also not exactly smart to point a rifle out of a hotel window either.

Sad story and one that could have been avoided with better decision making by the deceased man and much better handling of the situation by officers. Unfortunately, these things happen quickly and don't come with a do over. This one walks the line of bad shooting, but going by the definition of law, not one that could procure a conviction.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

In terms of 5 rounds, they were all fired in a single burst and the reaction to him falling would not have registered after 1 or 2.

Is it normal to go into these situations with full-auto (I assume since it was a 5 shot burst) vs semi-automatic?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cmp

How possibly can you even semi defend that Ben? The cop was 100% to blame for that. That kid was obviously frightened and never once looked like a threat to me.

I'm not defending it. I'm setting aside emotions and putting myself in the jury room. Was the dude frightened? Yes. Did he look like a threat for the vast majority of the encounter? No.

But again, I'm talking specifically about guilty/not guilty in a court of law, if I'm on the jury. No emotions--I'm focused on that split-second decision to shoot, and at that moment, it looks *exactly* like the move that someone would make to reach for a gun on his right hip. What other course of action can the cop take in that moment?

I don't want that guy having a gun and a badge, and I *hope* that he violated police procedure during the rest of the encounter, but from what we've seen elsewhere in these stories, I'm not even sure he did. Oftentimes the problem is more the procedure/training than the actions of the individual cop. But again, what he did prior to firing would have little/no bearing for me in the jury room.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Is it normal to go into these situations with full-auto (I assume since it was a 5 shot burst) vs semi-automatic?

Can't answer that, but I am sure the reason they even had those weapons instead of just side arms is the report of a rifle vs. just a gun. With that being the case they would go in prepared for the worst, which could be an automatic weapon. Police are so severely outgunned in many situations, that they will bring in their best weapons if there is a doubt. That is my best guess in this situation.

[JPhillips]

It's an open carry state. What law would he have been breaking even if it was a rifle?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

What other course of action can the cop take in that moment?

Cuff him when they had him lying face down with his hands on his head.

Or wait until they see an actual weapon.

[CU Tiger]

I think the report, specifically of a man with a rifle, makes the situation worse.
1- he may have a handgun in his shorts, he certainly doesn't have a rifle.
2- if you are fearful of another person in the room, one officer holds the downed guy at point and another should have stepped around to clear the room.
3- 5 officers stood in the hallway with guns. 1 pulled the trigger.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Cops don't shoot to wound

Nobody in their right f'n mind shoots to simply wound.