Charlie Manuel: Firing Pool

stevew · 04-19-2007, 02:04 PM

Okay, how much longer. I call May 10. The Phils will be returning home for a 9 game homestand, most likely with a record at or near 10-26.

Toddzilla · 04-19-2007, 02:41 PM

What last longer Charlie Manual or Alberto Gonzalez?

miami_fan · 04-20-2007, 06:46 AM

July 30

Butter · 04-20-2007, 08:01 AM

June 1.

Dr. Sak · 04-20-2007, 08:11 AM

Hopefully May 1st

Philliesfan980 · 04-20-2007, 08:27 AM

I say they fire him and Gillick. The guy has done nothing to improve the bullpen, or really the team in general since his hiring.

Mustang · 04-20-2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

The guy has done nothing to improve the bullpen

Yes he has. You moved Myers there...

stevew · 04-20-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

Yes he has. You moved Myers there...

And goddamn, that's like one of the dumbest decisions I've EVER seen a team do. It'd be one thing if they decided to move Myers to closer, and let Gordon pitch the 8th. But apparently they don't want to hurt Tom's feelings or something. I mean, Myers is an 8 million dollar MR, that just blows my mind.

condors · 04-20-2007, 11:13 AM

I don't think the Phillies are going to hire an established manager they interviewed Jim Leyan(sp) old crusty guy from the Pirates and others, and decieded that Charlie was the better baseball mind. When it was about dollars and cents and not looking bad to the public. They may fire Charlie but they will probally promote a guy from within instead of hiring someone who may actually effect a baseball game in a positive way. The only hope they have is hiring an unkown and hope they get lucky.

Has any team moved its opening day starting to midle relief less than 3 weeks into the season ? Charlie compared Myers to Eckersly and Smoltz funny thing is he hasn't won any cy young awards and has never been a pitcher that has come out of the bullpen before(at least for any signifigant period of time unless i am having a senior moment)

tucker rocky · 04-20-2007, 10:29 PM

Hey, here's a question or questions.

1. When will the Phillie bats get going?

2. When will Charlie stop going with Gordon as the closer?
(seems like there is always drama when he pitches)

3. When will Gillick add bench depth?
(Dobbs? Werth? Bourne? Who are these guys? They are all crap.)

4. When will Gillick add 3b, rf, c, lf (that's half a line-up) that can all produce?
Helms, no,
Victorino, not quite,
Ruiz/ Barajas, um, no,
Burrell, come on now, only when he sees the ball, maybe.

Practically, the whole team is ***.

The supposed stars of the team, Rollins, Utley, Howard, Rowand only hit when the stars are aligned.

adubroff · 04-20-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Hey, here's a question or questions.

1. When will the Phillie bats get going?

2. When will Charlie stop going with Gordon as the closer?
(seems like there is always drama when he pitches)

3. When will Gillick add bench depth?
(Dobbs? Werth? Bourne? Who are these guys? They are all crap.)

4. When will Gillick add 3b, rf, c, lf (that's half a line-up) that can all produce?
Helms, no,
Victorino, not quite,
Ruiz/ Barajas, um, no,
Burrell, come on now, only when he sees the ball, maybe.

Practically, the whole team is ***.

The supposed stars of the team, Rollins, Utley, Howard, Rowand only hit when the stars are aligned.

1. They will hit eventually.
2. Not soon enough.
3. There isn't that much to trade to add depth. He has a spare starter that might buy him a bat and a middle reliever, but he needs the reliever the most
4. There's nothing wrong with Burrell. He's not their problem. He's overpaid but it's not Gillick's fault. Victorino is not a traditional corner outfield bat but they have bigger problems than him too. He gets on base, fields well, can run. Moving him to center an using Rowand as a trade asset is an option but I don't think teams will line up around the block to get Rowand. Helms stinks. Ruiz/Barajas stink. In the long run though, they will score enough runs. I don't think they have the luxury of going after offense when they severely lack in the pen.

tucker rocky · 04-20-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adubroff

1. They will hit eventually.
2. Not soon enough.
3. There isn't that much to trade to add depth. He has a spare starter that might buy him a bat and a middle reliever, but he needs the reliever the most
4. There's nothing wrong with Burrell. He's not their problem. He's overpaid but it's not Gillick's fault. Victorino is not a traditional corner outfield bat but they have bigger problems than him too. He gets on base, fields well, can run. Moving him to center an using Rowand as a trade asset is an option but I don't think teams will line up around the block to get Rowand. Helms stinks. Ruiz/Barajas stink. In the long run though, they will score enough runs. I don't think they have the luxury of going after offense when they severely lack in the pen.

1. It's like they forgot how to hit. Swinging at awful pitches, but let the good ones go by.

2.Let Myers close for a bit, only good for short stints anyway. Gordon has to go.

3. Drop Gordon, bring in a couple lefty relievers. 3b, lf, rf, c will have to wait until next season.

4. Quit making stupid decisions Charlie, when going to the bullpen.

(ex: Last night game against the Reds, leave Lieber in, he was doing good, except for 1 pickoff attempt. Reds batters were clueless. Geary is overworked, Smith is downright terrible. Myers was the best best option to close the game, Gordon was not).

miami_fan · 09-05-2007, 04:07 PM

I am changing my vote

October 1st.

EagleFan · 09-05-2007, 06:02 PM

I think I need to start and alcohol habit if I want to continue to watch this team. One freaking week ago I was feeling great about the team and then they go 2-4 on thie road trip and I get to watch their bullpen continue to get shelled.

MrBug708 · 09-05-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

What last longer Charlie Manual or Alberto Gonzalez?

Who knew?

lighthousekeeper · 09-05-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I think I need to start and alcohol habit if I want to continue to watch this team. One freaking week ago I was feeling great about the team and then they go 2-4 on thie road trip and I get to watch their bullpen continue to get shelled.

ditto.

...and listening to Charlie Manuel at pre/postgame interviews is extremely painful. Don't know if it's true, but he certainly comes off sounding like an idiot.

MrDNA · 09-05-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I think I need to start and alcohol habit if I want to continue to watch this team. One freaking week ago I was feeling great about the team and then they go 2-4 on thie road trip and I get to watch their bullpen continue to get shelled.

It's fun to be a Phillies fan!

Can we pay Gordon to not pitch for us?

adubroff · 09-05-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDNA

It's fun to be a Phillies fan!

Can we pay Gordon to not pitch for us?

We already are paying him to help other teams.

EagleFan · 09-05-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDNA

Can we pay Gordon to not pitch for us?

Or Mesa, or Alfonseca...

stevew · 09-05-2007, 08:46 PM

fuck jose mesa.

Man, i see the team has basically decided to stop caring right now, so I'm just about ready to stop caring about baseball the rest of this year.

Go Yankees!

lighthousekeeper · 09-06-2007, 08:36 AM

Imagine my surprise this morning when I read in this article that Charlie Manuel deserves to be Manager of the Year

: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...=tsn&type=lgns

lordscarlet · 09-06-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Imagine my surprise this morning when I read in this article that Charlie Manuel deserves to be Manager of the Year

: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...=tsn&type=lgns

I would even give Manny Acta the award over him just within the NL East. Wow.

tucker rocky · 09-06-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Hey, here's a question or questions.

1. When will the Phillie bats get going?

2. When will Charlie stop going with Gordon as the closer?
(seems like there is always drama when he pitches)

3. When will Gillick add bench depth?
(Dobbs? Werth? Bourne? Who are these guys? They are all crap.)

4. When will Gillick add 3b, rf, c, lf (that's half a line-up) that can all produce?
Helms, no,
Victorino, not quite,
Ruiz/ Barajas, um, no,
Burrell, come on now, only when he sees the ball, maybe.

Practically, the whole team is ***.

The supposed stars of the team, Rollins, Utley, Howard, Rowand only hit when the stars are aligned.

Seems as though the Phillie pitching is the glaring weak spot.
This'll need to get addressed in the offseason.

lordscarlet · 09-06-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Seems as though the Phillie pitching is the glaring weak spot.
This'll need to get addressed in the offseason.

Just be glad you're not an O's fan.

sterlingice · 09-06-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Just be glad you're not an O's fan.

Try being a Royals fan the past few years. You grab onto Jose Rosado as a great prospect and All Star before he blows out his arm, lean on Jeff Suppan's steady ERA that's always around 5, get excited about Paul Byrd almost winning 20 on an awful team then badmouth the fans and leave town, endure prospect after prospect and first round pick after first round pick bomb mostly to lack of skill but also to injury, and then watch BP proclaim "we have seen the future of pitching, and his name is Zack Greinke" only to watch said space cadet go AWOL and just now get back to pitching effectively.

It's starting to feel like things are turning around this season but who knows what next year brings

SI

lordscarlet · 09-06-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Try being a Royals fan the past few years. You grab onto Jose Rosado as a great prospect and All Star before he blows out his arm, lean on Jeff Suppan's steady ERA that's always around 5, get excited about Paul Byrd almost winning 20 on an awful team then badmouth the fans and leave town, endure prospect after prospect and first round pick after first round pick bomb mostly to lack of skill but also to injury, and then watch BP proclaim "we have seen the future of pitching, and his name is Zack Greinke" only to watch said space cadet go AWOL and just now get back to pitching effectively.

It's starting to feel like things are turning around this season but who knows what next year brings

SI

I don't know the O's history well, I just know that their bullpen this year is horrendous.

ISiddiqui · 09-06-2007, 08:54 PM

Tampa Bay's is worse

.

miami_fan · 09-19-2007, 05:47 PM

So when do we start the Willie Randolph firing pool?

miami_fan · 09-28-2007, 09:16 PM

Ummm.....good job Charlie?

andy m · 09-29-2007, 01:57 AM

don't get ahead of yourself. there is still time to blow this!

stevew · 09-29-2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy m

don't get ahead of yourself. there is still time to blow this!

I know, that's the sad part. Hamels showed a ton of balls last night, I love that guy.

miami_fan · 09-29-2007, 07:54 AM

Aww come on. Either the Mets fans or the Phillie fans can be doom and gloom. Not both of ya!

This race facinates me for so many reasons that have little to do with on the field. I listen to a lot of NY sports talk at work and to hear some Mets fans go from almost blowing off the regular season and the National League to take their rightful spot in the World Series to wishing that the team lose every game so Willie Randolph can be fired because he is does not throw bats on the field or rip players publicly has been hilarious.

On the other side, I work with a die hard Philly sports fan who actually had Charlie Manual's face on a dartboard in his office which he threw at religiously up until.......two weeks ago. He hated Jimmy Rollins for opening his mouth at the beginning of the season. Now the dart board has disappeared and J-Ro should be the MVP.

EagleFan · 09-29-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Hamels showed a ton of balls last night, I love that guy.

A ton of strikes....

Not sure what to say about your "man crush" though, hopefully those two parts of the sentence are not related.

lighthousekeeper · 10-30-2008, 04:58 PM

old thread
back from the dead

lighthousekeeper · 10-30-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

3. When will Gillick add bench depth?
(Dobbs? Werth? Bourne? Who are these guys? They are all crap.)

4. When will Gillick add 3b, rf, c, lf (that's half a line-up) that can all produce?
Helms, no,
Victorino, not quite,
Ruiz/ Barajas, um, no,
Burrell, come on now, only when he sees the ball, maybe.

Practically, the whole team is ***.

lol

GrantDawg · 10-30-2008, 05:05 PM

To all of you: Here's your sign.

lordscarlet · 10-30-2008, 05:06 PM

I have been waiting for this bump for a month.

Lathum · 10-30-2008, 05:07 PM

haha
good find

stevew · 10-30-2008, 11:38 PM

I actually contemplated bumping this and the "why do the phillies suck so bad" thread too.

Karlifornia · 10-30-2008, 11:46 PM

I put the cursor over this thread title and saw stevew's prediction, and I thought he had made this thread today. I was pretty confused until I clicked it and saw the date.

EagleFan · 10-31-2008, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I put the cursor over this thread title and saw stevew's prediction, and I thought he had made this thread today. I was pretty confused until I clicked it and saw the date.

We're tough fans. Sure he won the WS on the 29th but he didn't do a damn thing on the 30th, time to get rid of him.

lighthousekeeper · 10-31-2008, 07:08 AM

i still stand by my original statement that he is an idiot. but being smart probably isn't a necessary skill for a baseball manager.

Subby · 10-31-2008, 07:48 AM

This is why we are all text sim message board enthusiasts and not allowed anywhere near professional sports franchises.

sterlingice · 10-31-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

We're tough fans. Sure he won the WS on the 29th but he didn't do a damn thing on the 30th, time to get rid of him.

SI

stevew · 10-31-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

i still stand by my original statement that he is an idiot. but being smart probably isn't a necessary skill for a baseball manager.

The "Doc Rivers" effect.

lighthousekeeper · 08-16-2013, 02:06 PM

so who won the pool?

Here were the pool entries:
dr. sak 5/1/2007
stevew 5/10/2007
butter_of_69 6/1/2007
miami_fan 7/30/2007

CONGRATS to MIAMI_FAN - YOU WIN WITH THE CLOSEST GUESS - ONLY ~2200 days off!!

miami_fan · 08-16-2013, 02:10 PM

Well duhhhh...Charlie Manuel did

Coffee Warlord · 08-16-2013, 02:12 PM

My god. You remembered a 5 year old thread.

lighthousekeeper · 08-16-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

My god. You remembered a 5 year old thread.

yeah but if you ask me what year i got married, i'd have to perform some calculus to figure it out.

Lathum · 08-16-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

My god. You remembered a 5 year old thread.

you can't even remember what year it is!

04-20-2007, 06:46 AM	#3
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	July 30 __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

04-20-2007, 08:01 AM	#4
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	June 1. __________________ My listening habits

09-05-2007, 04:07 PM	#13
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	Update I am changing my vote October 1st. __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

09-06-2007, 08:36 AM	#21
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Imagine my surprise this morning when I read in this article that Charlie Manuel deserves to be Manager of the Year : http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...=tsn&type=lgns __________________ ...

09-06-2007, 08:54 PM	#27
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Tampa Bay's is worse . __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

04-19-2007, 02:41 PM	#2
Toddzilla Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burke, VA	What last longer Charlie Manual or Alberto Gonzalez?

04-20-2007, 08:11 AM	#5
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Hopefully May 1st

04-20-2007, 08:27 AM	#6
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	I say they fire him and Gillick. The guy has done nothing to improve the bullpen, or really the team in general since his hiring.

04-20-2007, 11:13 AM	#9
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	I don't think the Phillies are going to hire an established manager they interviewed Jim Leyan(sp) old crusty guy from the Pirates and others, and decieded that Charlie was the better baseball mind. When it was about dollars and cents and not looking bad to the public. They may fire Charlie but they will probally promote a guy from within instead of hiring someone who may actually effect a baseball game in a positive way. The only hope they have is hiring an unkown and hope they get lucky. Has any team moved its opening day starting to midle relief less than 3 weeks into the season ? Charlie compared Myers to Eckersly and Smoltz funny thing is he hasn't won any cy young awards and has never been a pitcher that has come out of the bullpen before(at least for any signifigant period of time unless i am having a senior moment)

04-20-2007, 10:29 PM	#10
tucker rocky Pro Rookie Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Of no particular interest	Hey, here's a question or questions. 1. When will the Phillie bats get going? 2. When will Charlie stop going with Gordon as the closer? (seems like there is always drama when he pitches) 3. When will Gillick add bench depth? (Dobbs? Werth? Bourne? Who are these guys? They are all crap.) 4. When will Gillick add 3b, rf, c, lf (that's half a line-up) that can all produce? Helms, no, Victorino, not quite, Ruiz/ Barajas, um, no, Burrell, come on now, only when he sees the ball, maybe. Practically, the whole team is ***. The supposed stars of the team, Rollins, Utley, Howard, Rowand only hit when the stars are aligned.

09-05-2007, 06:02 PM	#14
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	I think I need to start and alcohol habit if I want to continue to watch this team. One freaking week ago I was feeling great about the team and then they go 2-4 on thie road trip and I get to watch their bullpen continue to get shelled.

09-05-2007, 08:46 PM	#20
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	fuck jose mesa. Man, i see the team has basically decided to stop caring right now, so I'm just about ready to stop caring about baseball the rest of this year. Go Yankees!

09-19-2007, 05:47 PM	#28
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	So when do we start the Willie Randolph firing pool? __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

09-28-2007, 09:16 PM	#29
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	Ummm.....good job Charlie? __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

09-29-2007, 01:57 AM	#30
andy m High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: norwich, UK	don't get ahead of yourself. there is still time to blow this! __________________ mostly harmless FOFL 2009 champs - Norwich Quagmire

09-29-2007, 07:54 AM	#32
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	Aww come on. Either the Mets fans or the Phillie fans can be doom and gloom. Not both of ya! This race facinates me for so many reasons that have little to do with on the field. I listen to a lot of NY sports talk at work and to hear some Mets fans go from almost blowing off the regular season and the National League to take their rightful spot in the World Series to wishing that the team lose every game so Willie Randolph can be fired because he is does not throw bats on the field or rip players publicly has been hilarious. On the other side, I work with a die hard Philly sports fan who actually had Charlie Manual's face on a dartboard in his office which he threw at religiously up until.......two weeks ago. He hated Jimmy Rollins for opening his mouth at the beginning of the season. Now the dart board has disappeared and J-Ro should be the MVP. __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

10-30-2008, 04:58 PM	#34
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	old thread back from the dead __________________ ...

10-30-2008, 05:05 PM	#36
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	To all of you: Here's your sign.

10-30-2008, 05:06 PM	#37
lordscarlet Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Washington, DC	I have been waiting for this bump for a month. __________________ Sixteen Colors ANSI/ASCII Art Archive "...the better half of the Moores..." -cthomer5000

10-30-2008, 05:07 PM	#38
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	haha good find

10-30-2008, 11:38 PM	#39
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I actually contemplated bumping this and the "why do the phillies suck so bad" thread too.

10-30-2008, 11:46 PM	#40
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	I put the cursor over this thread title and saw stevew's prediction, and I thought he had made this thread today. I was pretty confused until I clicked it and saw the date. __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

10-31-2008, 07:08 AM	#42
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	i still stand by my original statement that he is an idiot. but being smart probably isn't a necessary skill for a baseball manager. __________________ ...

10-31-2008, 07:48 AM	#43
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	This is why we are all text sim message board enthusiasts and not allowed anywhere near professional sports franchises. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

08-16-2013, 02:06 PM	#46
lighthousekeeper College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	so who won the pool? Here were the pool entries: dr. sak 5/1/2007 stevew 5/10/2007 butter_of_69 6/1/2007 miami_fan 7/30/2007 CONGRATS to MIAMI_FAN - YOU WIN WITH THE CLOSEST GUESS - ONLY ~2200 days off!! __________________ ... Last edited by lighthousekeeper : 08-16-2013 at 02:14 PM.

08-16-2013, 02:10 PM	#47
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	Well duhhhh...Charlie Manuel did __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

08-16-2013, 02:12 PM	#48
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	My god. You remembered a 5 year old thread.

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