It has been 25 years since...

[cartman]

Straight Outta Compton was released. Aug. 8th, 1988. As I posted on Facebook, damn this makes me feel old.

[Groundhog]

Seeing Ice T play a cop on TV still makes me feel old.

[Toddzilla]

sadly, thephatfree.com seems to be down - their NWA quiz was legit

[duckman]

Fuck the Police

[cartman]

Make that 30 years now

[PilotMan]

Good god, why you gotta go and remind us again!?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by cartman

Make that 30 years now

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Good god, why you gotta go and remind us again!?

Right, as if having 4 grandkids now wasn't enough for me

[albionmoonlight]

We are as far away from Straight Outta Compton today as Straight Outta Compton was to 1958!

[albionmoonlight]

So, honestly, it kinda makes sense that we forgot about 'Dre. It had been quite a few years.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

We are as far away from Straight Outta Compton today as Straight Outta Compton was to 1958!

That means Ice Cube is like Chubby Checker to kids these days.

[stevew]

I thought Straight Outta Compton came out a couple years ago?

Oh yeah that was Ice Cube's son

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by cartman

That means Ice Cube is like Chubby Checker to kids these days.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by cartman

That means Ice Cube is like Chubby Checker to kids these days.

This points to the lack of "revolution" in music in the last 30-35 years. The 60s, 70s, and 80s all saw fairly cataclysmic change to how popular music sounded. But really, since hip-hop and synthesizers went mainstream in the 80s, there's been nothing truly "new" since. Evolution? Sure. Revolution??? Not remotely. The result? I'll be 50 years old later this year, but I can completely "relate" to the music at the top of the charts today. And that's not because I'm "hip" or anything; it's just because it doesn't sound all *that* different from what I listened to when I was 15 to 25. But someone who was 50 in 1985 was 15 in 1950. Yeah, music was a little different then.

EDIT TO ADD: So, in terms of time, yes, Cube is Chubby Checker. But in terms of ability to connect, no, Ice Cube isn't Chubby Checker to these kids. It's far more relatable because the sound isn't foreign. I witnessed this dynamic shift particularly as I worked in youth ministry in the 90s and 00s. Early on, you had the typical musical generation gap, but by the time I left in the mid 00s, it was pretty normal for teens to listen to their parents' favorite music, and parents to listen to their teens' stuff as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This points to the lack of "revolution" in music in the last 30-35 years. The 60s, 70s, and 80s (synthesizers, hip hop) all saw fairly cataclysmic change to how popular music sounded. But really, since hip-hop and synthesizers went mainstream in the 80s, there's been nothing truly "new" since. Evolution? Sure. Revolution??? Not remotely. The result? I'll be 50 years old later this year, but I can completely "relate" to the music at the top of the charts today. And that's not because I'm "hip" or anything; it's just because it doesn't sound all *that* different from what I listened to when I was 15 to 25. But someone who was 50 in 1985 was 15 in 1950. Yeah, music was a little different then.

Hmm ... maybe revolution (or devolution as the case may be) is genre by genre?

I mean, a lot of people argue that top of chart country is unrecognizable as such vs 30/35 years ago. Rock has a pretty good argument as well for that as well a lot of the time. Not sure AC has changed much.

My initial thought was that, in that 3 decades'ish time frame, I guess the most "revolutionary" (though I'd go with "repugnant" or "repulsive") new thing is maybe dubstep? I'd maybe throw djent in there but hasn't really become prevalent enough to qualify.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I mean, a lot of people argue that top of chart country is unrecognizable as such vs 30/35 years ago.

That's true, BUT....top of the chart country is basically some weird combination of rock, pop, and (at times) hip hop, from the last 30 years, isn't it? If so, to me that's still just evolution rather than revolution. Seems to me that chart-topping country, more than any other genre, has been more of a "melding" of genres. Oftentimes it just sounds like what we used to call "light rock" with a southern twang and maybe a steel guitar or fiddle thrown in, no?

My initial thought was that, in that 3 decades'ish time frame, I guess the most "revolutionary" (though I'd go with "repugnant" or "repulsive") new thing is maybe dubstep? I'd maybe throw djent in there but hasn't really become prevalent enough to qualify.

Is dubstep prevalent enough, even? My "old man" is showing there. When I think of "teen music" (which is kinda where my head was here, for obvious reasons,) I basically think of Swift, Trainor, Chance, etc., with a little Underwood thrown in depending on where you live in the country. Is dubstep THAT popular?

[PilotMan]

autotune is the straight up worst

[ISiddiqui]

Dubstep hasn't really been popular for a few years now. Most big dubstep folks have changed genres a bit - James Blake, Skrillex, etc.

Trap music is the new big trend, of course (Migos, Future, etc).

I'd argue that what has changed quite a bit from 30-35 years ago is which acts are on top these days. You can barely find rock as you would known it back 30 years ago. It's most rap and pop that have been HEAVILY influenced by EDM. That's probably the biggest change - EDM is no longer some sort of niche genre, but has been infused in just about everything (and maybe that really kicked off when Kanye did "Stronger" with Daft Punk).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

That's true, BUT....top of the chart country is basically some weird combination of rock, pop, and (at times) hip hop, from the last 30 years, isn't it? If so, to me that's still just evolution rather than revolution. Seems to me that chart-topping country, more than any other genre, has been more of a "melding" of genres. Oftentimes it just sounds like what we used to call "light rock" with a southern twang and maybe a steel guitar or fiddle thrown in, no?

That's maybe which way you wanna slice it? I mean, even calling that combination "country" is enough to set a pretty fair segment of the audience (or former audience) on the brink of "revolution" themselves. And the reaction isn't strictly age-based, some of the most offended are at least 20 years my junior. They would argue that it's a complete upheaval.

Is dubstep prevalent enough, even?

Yeah, I'd say it's been prevalent enough in rock to be recognizable nor even widely accepted, but it's enough of a "thing" that it seems like it counts. I mean, I recognize even traces of it so it had to be used a fair bit (cause I sure never heard it prior to its rock arrival)

Thinking about this from another angle though (maybe closer to what you originally intended), maybe there IS one specific revolutionary thing (that doesn't seem to be merely an evolution): auto-tuning.

It's pretty much everywhere today and off-hand I don't recall it being such a pronounced thing unto itself 30 years ago.

[stevew]

Mumble rap about nothing frw

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Thinking about this from another angle though (maybe closer to what you originally intended), maybe there IS one specific revolutionary thing (that doesn't seem to be merely an evolution): auto-tuning.

It's pretty much everywhere today and off-hand I don't recall it being such a pronounced thing unto itself 30 years ago.

Y'know, I specifically thought about auto-tuning and ALMOST mentioned it. But then I thought about songs like "Planet Rock" that had that electronic weird voice stuff, and thought..hmmm...isn't auto-tuning just the evolution of whatever that was? (Example a little after the 1:30 mark here: Afrika Bambaataa - Don't Stop Planet Rock - YouTube )


Even if it isn't the "evolution" of autotuning specifically, I'm pretty sure that it's what made me a little more "accepting" of it.


Speaking of Planet Rock (and circling back to the whole thing about relatable music and kids these days,) I was at the skating rink with my oldest recently. The crowd was of course heavily pre-teen/young teen. And "Planet Rock" came on at one point. What struck me is that it wasn't in an "80s" or "oldies" set, either. Nope, it was in order like Taylor Swift, Meghan Trainor, Afrika Bambaataa, Carrie Underwood, etc. Cracked me up.


Yeah, on "country" it's a semantics thing. I agree 100% that the music that they call country these days isn't the same country music. I guess I'm just suggesting that it's not a new genre, either; it's some other music by an incorrect name. (I think most would agree that "hit country" is mainly an evolution of other non-country genres.)


I don't know they are, but for fun, I'm going to check the current top few hits in Billboard's "Country" genre right now...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I don't know they are, but for fun, I'm going to check the current top few hits in Billboard's "Country" genre right now...

LOL at #1. Haven't heard that song. That's pure 90s pop/soul with a southern accent. They didn't even bother with the steel guitar or fiddle. Change the singer to Justin Timberlake, and that's a 90s hit.



Bebe Rexha - Meant to Be (feat. Florida Georgia Line) [Official Music Video] - YouTube

[Ben E Lou]

#2 Get Along--Kenny Chesney--John Cougar Mellancamp called and wants his 80s pop hit back. (Ok, kinda of a Skynrd-ish guitar solo and some banjo in the interlude, but still...)


#3 Tequila--Day + Shay--Bryan Adams called, too.


#4 Mercy--Brett Young--Oh HAI Elton!!!


Yeah, ok. I guess I haven't listed to the TOP-of-charts stuff lately. If I had, I wouldn't even have called it an evolution. This is just recycled stuff from other genres with crisper-sounding production, sung with a twang.

[Ben E Lou]

Back to my original (more global) point: all four of those current top country hits I just listened to sound a heckuva lot like stuff that was on the radio *somewhere* in 1983, 1988, and 1993. But in 1988, no one could have said about any music on the radio "that sounds a lot like so-and-so from back in '53/'58/'63."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

What struck me is that it wasn't in an "80s" or "oldies" set, either. Nope, it was in order like Taylor Swift, Meghan Trainor, Afrika Bambaataa, Carrie Underwood, etc. Cracked me up.

This is a conversation I've had with my son more than once. I can't remember the exact song that prompted it in detail, but basically I was on campus & was shocked to hear some Journey song blaring from one of the frat houses. A couple songs later, same house was blasting Migos.

I was ... confused.

What he explained about whatever Journey song it was is that there's stuff from every decade at least back to the 60s/70s that's popular enough to not cause anyone to even blink if it's played (or if you're caught listening to it) BUT that it's on a song-by-song basis, not artist by artist or even era/genre by era/genre.

So for example (whatever it was, but I don't think it was Don't Stop Believin) cranking up Journey "Wheel In The Sky" is fine but doing the same with "Lovin Touchin' Squeezin" would get you strange looks & have friends looking for an intervention. We must have gone through a dozen or more bands and talked song-by-song examples of what would or wouldn't fly, with no real discernible rhyme or reason to it.

I wonder if maybe Planet Rock is one of those kind of things, where it's fine but a perfectly equivalent song from the same timeframe would be cause for concern/confusion.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This is a conversation I've had with my son more than once. I can't remember the exact song that prompted it in detail, but basically I was on campus & was shocked to hear some Journey song blaring from one of the frat houses. A couple songs later, same house was blasting Migos.

I was ... confused.

What he explained about whatever Journey song it was is that there's stuff from every decade at least back to the 60s/70s that's popular enough to not cause anyone to even blink if it's played (or if you're caught listening to it) BUT that it's on a song-by-song basis, not artist by artist or even era/genre by era/genre.

So for example (whatever it was, but I don't think it was Don't Stop Believin) cranking up Journey "Wheel In The Sky" is fine but doing the same with "Lovin Touchin' Squeezin" would get you strange looks & have friends looking for an intervention. We must have gone through a dozen or more bands and talked song-by-song examples of what would or wouldn't fly, with no real discernible rhyme or reason to it.

I wonder if maybe Planet Rock is one of those kind of things, where it's fine but a perfectly equivalent song from the same timeframe would be cause for concern/confusion.

Interesting. I still volunteer with YL here in GSO, and when there's secular music played, it's heavily tilted toward being "cutting edge" newer stuff, which makes sense. But yeah, they throw in some specific absurdly old stuff that throws me off kilter. (Teenagers love Sweet Caroline??? Really?????????)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

(Teenagers love Sweet Caroline??? Really?????????)

Definitely a thing.

Was part of our pre-game music for football games for several years (the AD's iPod was a source of steady amusement for me) but the kids popped on that song more than the adults, I've seen cheerleaders singing it at the top of their lungs word for word.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Definitely a thing.

Was part of our pre-game music for football games for several years (the AD's iPod was a source of steady amusement for me) but the kids popped on that song more than the adults, I've seen cheerleaders singing it at the top of their lungs word for word.

Oh yeah. It totally pops with them here as well. They know every word. I'm not sure if I'm comforted or appalled to know it's not just these weirdo teens in Greensboro.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

(Teenagers love Sweet Caroline??? Really?????????)

Mainly just masshole redsox fan kids

[Vince, Pt. II]

Sweet Caroline is by FAR the most popular song my band plays, completely irrespective of age group/venue.

Edit to add: SF Bay Area here, so it's not just Massholes.

[RainMaker]

It's been 14 years since Dave Matthews Band dropped 800 pounds of human feces on a tour boat below them.

That One Time The Dave Matthews Band Dumped 800 Pounds Of Poop On A Boat Full Of People | Riot Fest

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This is a conversation I've had with my son more than once. I can't remember the exact song that prompted it in detail, but basically I was on campus & was shocked to hear some Journey song blaring from one of the frat houses. A couple songs later, same house was blasting Migos.

I was ... confused.

What he explained about whatever Journey song it was is that there's stuff from every decade at least back to the 60s/70s that's popular enough to not cause anyone to even blink if it's played (or if you're caught listening to it) BUT that it's on a song-by-song basis, not artist by artist or even era/genre by era/genre.

So for example (whatever it was, but I don't think it was Don't Stop Believin) cranking up Journey "Wheel In The Sky" is fine but doing the same with "Lovin Touchin' Squeezin" would get you strange looks & have friends looking for an intervention. We must have gone through a dozen or more bands and talked song-by-song examples of what would or wouldn't fly, with no real discernible rhyme or reason to it.

I wonder if maybe Planet Rock is one of those kind of things, where it's fine but a perfectly equivalent song from the same timeframe would be cause for concern/confusion.

It's also all of these Glee and Pitch Perfect shows that contribute to kids liking old music. Of course, my kids don't even realize it until I point out that yes, that song is from when I was 13...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's been 14 years since Dave Matthews Band dropped 800 pounds of human feces on a tour boat below them.

That One Time The Dave Matthews Band Dumped 800 Pounds Of Poop On A Boat Full Of People | Riot Fest

Not even the worst thing that's happened in regards to Charlottesville on this day.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

If I had, I wouldn't even have called it an evolution. This is just recycled stuff from other genres with crisper-sounding production, sung with a twang.

Life is a highway, I wanna ride it all night long

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

EDIT TO ADD: So, in terms of time, yes, Cube is Chubby Checker. But in terms of ability to connect, no, Ice Cube isn't Chubby Checker to these kids.

Do you mean to tell me kids didn't connect with this???

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This is a conversation I've had with my son more than once. I can't remember the exact song that prompted it in detail, but basically I was on campus & was shocked to hear some Journey song blaring from one of the frat houses.

At pretty much every winter color guard competition I've been to (and some band competitions) in the time before scores are announced and/or after the ceremonies, they play Don't Stop Believin', Sweet Caroline, Cotton Eye Joe, Cupid Shuffle, and Cha Cha Slide.

Parents AND kids sing to the first two and it drives me fucking insane, nearly to the point of wanting to harpoon my fat middle-aged brethren. (Journey because they're grinding the song into the ground. Diamond because I can't stand that fucking song.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Dubstep hasn't really been popular for a few years now. Most big dubstep folks have changed genres a bit - James Blake, Skrillex, etc.

Trap music is the new big trend, of course (Migos, Future, etc).

I'd argue that what has changed quite a bit from 30-35 years ago is which acts are on top these days. You can barely find rock as you would known it back 30 years ago. It's most rap and pop that have been HEAVILY influenced by EDM. That's probably the biggest change - EDM is no longer some sort of niche genre, but has been infused in just about everything (and maybe that really kicked off when Kanye did "Stronger" with Daft Punk).

I missed this earlier but ... I almost mentioned EDM myself (ahead of & instead of dubstep) BUT omitted it because it could be simply an evolution of the Euro tech scene which was developing around 30 years ago.

And much like Ben questioned whether dubstep was big enough to count, I have that same reservation about trap simply due to the relatively short length of time its been a thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw, I explored the "okay, Planet Rock is no surprise but what about ... X" line with the college kid.

I chose "Atomic Dog" as an example. After needing around a minute to connect the song in his head, he said his answer would be that hearing it would make him wonder who knew their shit well enough to dig that one out.

His guess was that less than 1% would recognize having ever heard it, whereas Planet Rock felt ubiquitous.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I missed this earlier but ... I almost mentioned EDM myself (ahead of & instead of dubstep) BUT omitted it because it could be simply an evolution of the Euro tech scene which was developing around 30 years ago.

And much like Ben questioned whether dubstep was big enough to count, I have that same reservation about trap simply due to the relatively short length of time its been a thing.

The Euro tech scene though, can be argued, had more of a minimal effect on mainstream music up until the last decade or so, where it exploded to be everywhere. So I don't know if it's as much of an evolution - the blend of EDM with other music has been pretty revolutionary for the other genres and mainstream music (and one can argue that other revolutions in music were having the foundation laid earlier in some ways in more niche styles).

And yeah, you are right about trap. It it possible that it fades out like dubstep.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hmm ... maybe revolution (or devolution as the case may be) is genre by genre?

I mean, a lot of people argue that top of chart country is unrecognizable as such vs 30/35 years ago. Rock has a pretty good argument as well for that as well a lot of the time. Not sure AC has changed much.

My initial thought was that, in that 3 decades'ish time frame, I guess the most "revolutionary" (though I'd go with "repugnant" or "repulsive") new thing is maybe dubstep? I'd maybe throw djent in there but hasn't really become prevalent enough to qualify.

You really think rock has changed a lot in 30 years? I mean, sure, hair metal is not top of the charts, but rock music has been mainly static since grunge/post-grunge, and the most talked about band of 2018 is a clear imitation of Led Zeppelin (which was also happening in 1988). Nearly every band sounds the same. It's gotten a bit heavier and slicker production-wise over time, but nothing has changed because most rock fans don't want it to change.

As far as djent, I think most fans find it to be a gimmick and don't even recognize it as a true genre. Just a week or two ago, Meshuggah jokingly apologized for creating the concept of djent while drunk. The biggest change I've seen in heavy music over the past 3 decades is the acceptance of more extreme music and vocals. And that's really just evolution - metal was always on the fringe, so they have to keep expanding the concept of what's objectionable by making the sound more extreme and the definition of "normal" changes. And when music by bands like Judas Priest, Motorhead, Pantera, etc., are being used in TV commercials, metal had to evolve to something that would be more objectionable to people today.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

fwiw, I explored the "okay, Planet Rock is no surprise but what about ... X" line with the college kid.

I chose "Atomic Dog" as an example. After needing around a minute to connect the song in his head, he said his answer would be that hearing it would make him wonder who knew their shit well enough to dig that one out.

His guess was that less than 1% would recognize having ever heard it, whereas Planet Rock felt ubiquitous.

You had me at "I chose 'Atomic Dog' as an example."






{turns on music. goes to do the dogcatcher, dogcatcher..do the dogcatcher}

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:


I wonder if some of these songs are featured in the standard vapid teen comedies that old farts like us don't see any more--you know, whatever the Porky's/Summer School/Bill & Ted/etc. of the last 20ish years may be. Stick "Planet Rock" in one dance scene, release it on the soundtrack, and boom, it's back in the mainstream teen/young adult conscience. (I have no idea if that's the case--more just trying to figure out why a specific song sticks around and a song of a similar genre/era/sound/popularity in its time fades into the background.)

[cuervo72]

Damn near every dog movie in the last 20 years has used "Atomic Dog" in their ads/trailers.

[stevew]

I can't believe Atomic Dog would be considered a good pull.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Damn near every dog movie in the last 20 years has used "Atomic Dog" in their ads/trailers.

But maybe not to the extent of "Who Let The Dogs Out"

[cuervo72]

And now Atomic Dog is in an e*trade commercial.